Actually worried about HELL?

[Clement of Alexandria]

Is anyone here actually worried about being the object of divine penalties after this life is over because of your sentimental, liberal theology? Is anyone afraid of divine cruelty? I know that I grew up in a fundamentalist household that firmly ingrained the idea that there were firm penalties for being "wrong" theologically and ethically. Sometimes I am afraid. I don't think I ever want to subject that on any children.

 

[Tangnefedd]

I used to be worried about hell, as I was spiritually abused with hell-fire scenarios as a child. If I had my way that sort of abuse would be illegal. Now I don't worry about hell because the sick people that preach the hell-fire approach are just that, sick!

 

[LiberatedChick]

No, I'm not worried. I used to be worried that my family (all non-believers) would end up in hell but at the time I'd just accepted the "believers go to heaven, unbelievers to hell" kinda view...I'd not actually looked into what the bible says and other views on the matter. Now I have, I don't think hell exists or if there is a place of punishment/purification it's temporary.

 

[SpaceMan]

...I'd not actually looked into what the bible says and other views on the matter. Now I have, I don't think hell exists or if there is a place of punishment/purification it's temporary.

Agreed...there is no hell, at least in the eternal fire & torment sense, there's not (IMO, of course).

 

[Im_A]

Is anyone here actually worried about being the object of divine penalties after this life is over because of your sentimental, liberal theology? Is anyone afraid of divine cruelty? I know that I grew up in a fundamentalist household that firmly ingrained the idea that there were firm penalties for being "wrong" theologically and ethically. Sometimes I am afraid. I don't think I ever want to subject that on any children.

i never grew up in a household that was fundamentalist. my parents' divorced dad was raised methodist, turned atheist, but eventually went back to the Luthern church, mom raised baptist but has a lot of question, so it's no wonder that i'm now basically a liberal Christian. but my religious family if you want to call it that, at first was into that whole thing of modern fundamentalist Christianity, hellfire and brimestone. i just thought it was the way God was. i never knew of anything other possibilitity of an idea about God till later on life. the older i got, the more questions rose up, and it came almost together last year, and of course there will be more questions come up as time goes.

my liberalness has made me wond about if i should be concerned about my soul going to hell. but then i sit and think about several things:

1. what would make conservative thought more right than liberal thought? details? especially when both believe Jesus is the Way, hmm.

if conservative thought was the way, and oh so powerful, than we wouldn't have deconverts. the same goes with liberal thought as well. we know how people have went liberal and then left the faith, and many went conservative and then left the faith.

2. what makes a conservative person better than a liberal person? i ask that because some would say the differences on morality.

well, both sides are moral. both sides accept the responsibilities and obligations of their actions. and the above question comes along with this as well. both sides believe in God making us a new creation. so both sides are pretty moral as far as i can see. i don't agree everything with liberal thought, or conservative thought, but i am convinced that both sides strive to be as moral as they can be, and that's about all ANYONE can really do.

3. is there a difference between conservative faith and liberal faith?

i guess that's in the eye of the beholder. i personally don't see any. differences in detailed beliefs, but still running on faith, hope, grace, love and redemption/acceptance from an infinite being we cannot even see, feel or touch. if that isn't faith, than i don't know what is. both sides do that brilliantly.

4. is the saving grace of Christ bound by conservative and liberal agendas? please! i think the answer is very simple on that one, and imho, the answer is no.

so after i sit and think about this stuff, the idea of the possibility of me going to hell because i have liberal tendacies fade away. i realize that i'm still disecting out what my faith was built upon. the idea that there are those who make it, and those who don't, and the sad fact my faith used to be strengthened through that. and it is requiring MORE faith now for me, because i believe in universal reconciliation now, so now my faith is strengthened by what? damnation of others? nope. elitist thinking that i'm right and everyone else is wrong? nope. the only thing really i have left strengthening my faith is love. faith in God, faith in His grace, hope in His grace, and love, hope in the power of God. and that is it. it's a more stable path now, but it's also harder for me, because when my faith used to be strengthened by the damnation of others, that strengthening mechanism if you will was a quick fix. real love isn't a quick fix, but it's a deep healing fix, step by step and a lifetime of it, and requires faith/trust.

God Bless you! <><

 

[Soul Searcher]

No worries here, I have always believed in love and forgiveness, I couldn't even imagion anyone spending an eternity in hell fire, surely no "good" being could do such a thing to anyone no matter what thier offence had been.

I really don't understand how anyone can believe that our loving God would submit his creation to torture for any reason.

 

[loriersea]

It's not something I worry about. I was raised by pretty moderate Catholics, and grew up thinking that as long as I didn't murder someone, at worst I'd end up in purgatory, and I'd eventually get out. But I don't think I ever took that too seriously, and once I started really thinking about it, I realized that there was simply no way God could send anyone to hell for eternity.

 

[stumpjumper]

Short reply: "What Tatted said"

Longer reply: I don't think Jesus was concerned about theology. He was concerned about following him not what whether we believed he was begotten or created or anything else. He said love God, love your neighbor, and follow me.

 

[mark53]

Is anyone here actually worried about being the object of divine penalties after this life is over because of your sentimental, liberal theology? Is anyone afraid of divine cruelty? I know that I grew up in a fundamentalist household that firmly ingrained the idea that there were firm penalties for being "wrong" theologically and ethically. Sometimes I am afraid. I don't think I ever want to subject that on any children.

Hell, No!

 

[Blackguard_]

Jesus died to free us from sin and death and he did not give us a spirit of fear, so to be in fear of hell because of sin is to be in bondage to sin and means your faith is weak as you are not trusting as strongly as you should that the blood of Jesus has redeemed you.

As Luther said in a letter to Melanchton,

"13. If you are a preacher of mercy, do not preach an imaginary but
the true mercy. If the mercy is true, you must therefore bear the
true, not an imaginary sin. God does not save those who are only
imaginary sinners. Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong, but let
your trust in Christ be stronger, and rejoice in Christ who is the
victor over sin, death, and the world. We will commit sins while we
are here, for this life is not a place where justice resides. We,
however, says Peter (2. Peter 3:13) are looking forward to a new
heaven and a new earth where justice will reign. It suffices that
through God's glory we have recognized the Lamb who takes away the
sin of the world. No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to
kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day. Do you think
such an exalted Lamb paid merely a small price with a meager
sacrifice for our sins? Pray hard for you are quite a sinner. "

 

[FreezBee]

I know that I grew up in a fundamentalist household that firmly ingrained the idea that there were firm penalties for being "wrong" theologically and ethically. Sometimes I am afraid. I don't think I ever want to subject that on any children.

The mission of Jesus was to free people from feeling guilty, from living in an everyday hell, so there is no other hell than the hell you build up yourself


- FreezBee

 

[Cleany]

Is anyone here actually worried about being the object of divine penalties after this life is over because of your sentimental, liberal theology? Is anyone afraid of divine cruelty? I know that I grew up in a fundamentalist household that firmly ingrained the idea that there were firm penalties for being "wrong" theologically and ethically. Sometimes I am afraid. I don't think I ever want to subject that on any children.

used to be but not at all

 

[Tangnefedd]

I think people living in extreme fundamentalist households where they major on God's wrath rather than love, are in a living hell!

 

[greenlantern]

I used to when I was a fundie, but not for a long time.
Here's why:
1 - I cannot accept that any being could create such an awful place if there was the smallest chance that their creation could end up there, ESPECIALLY a perfect and loving being of any kind.
2 - If our spirits are not physical, how can they feel any pain at all (except that which is 'emotional')?
3 - An eternity of suffering and pain for the simple act of not believing, is absurd...in my opinion.
4 - An eternity of punishment for a mere 70 years 'mistake' is bit extreme.
5 - How can people in heaven enjoy anything if they KNOW that their children, parents, spouses, friends are in this terrible place that the Loving biblical God created?
Not trying to hijack the thread

Green

 

[Im_A]

and one thing to think Clement, and this has really been on my mind.

can finite beliefs, finite actions obtain and infinite punishment?

just a thought that has made me really re-think things.

 

[NormalRyan]

The way I see it is that if God sends people for hell based on the lack of information that he has provided us, then that is not a God that anyone should show admiration. Eternal torment for a simple misunderstanding? There is no way I can believe that, so I choose not to believe in a literal hell until better information comes available to me.

 

[Im_A]

I used to when I was a fundie, but not for a long time.
Here's why:
1 - I cannot accept that any being could create such an awful place if there was the smallest chance that their creation could end up there, ESPECIALLY a perfect and loving being of any kind.
2 - If our spirits are not physical, how can they feel any pain at all (except that which is 'emotional')?
3 - An eternity of suffering and pain for the simple act of not believing, is absurd...in my opinion.
4 - An eternity of punishment for a mere 70 years 'mistake' is bit extreme.
5 - How can people in heaven enjoy anything if they KNOW that their children, parents, spouses, friends are in this terrible place that the Loving biblical God created?
Not trying to hijack the thread

Green

your not hijacking it good stuff i like number 4 and 5 the best. especially, it makes one wonder if people that do believe in eternal hell just believe that we will forget about their loved ones/family members that are burning in hell. sure i do believe God will wipe every tear away, but i wonder after the tears are wiped, if there will come again another time that a tear is going to have to be wiped away and if heaven for some would just be some allusion because they know the ones they loved are burning and i don't believe anyone could get that out of them, and i don't believe God would even do that, cause it would be against His character to take away the love for a family member.

 

[Soul Searcher]

and one thing to think Clement, and this has really been on my mind.

can finite beliefs, finite actions obtain and infinite punishment?

just a thought that has made me really re-think things.

One argument I have heard here is that sin is commited against and infinite being and therefore is infinite in nature. To me this is nonsense, because if one sin is infinite and deserves an infinite punishment then it would be impossible to ever pay the penalty, yet the bible says we will pay every penny.

If the penalty for one sin is infinite then what is the penalty for 10 sins? How did Jesus pay the penalty if the penalty for just one sin is infinite? How could he have paid for all the sins of man kind in just 3 days?

How can one sin be greater than another if one is infinite?

Many such questions arise along these lines when you give it some thought.

 

[Im_A]

One argument I have heard here is that sin is commited against and infinite being and therefore is infinite in nature. To me this is nonsense, because if one sin is infinite and deserves an infinite punishment then it would be impossible to ever pay the penalty, yet the bible says we will pay every penny.

If the penalty for one sin is infinite then what is the penalty for 10 sins? How did Jesus pay the penalty if the penalty for just one sin is infinite? How could he have paid for all the sins of man kind in just 3 days?

How can one sin be greater than another if one is infinite?

Many such questions arise along these lines when you give it some thought.

i agree with you here. and it makes no sense to say that sin is ever infinite anyways, at least to me cause Jesus was both fully infinite and finite correct? if sin is death then that means sin has/had an end and only finite creatures have an end.

 

[loriersea]

If every sin is infinite, then every righteous thing we do would have to be infinite, too. And, unless you believe that we are entirely sinful (which I realize some Christians do), that means that most of us would have to be both infinitely sinful and infinitely good, which is impossible.