Absolution question

[TheBibleIsTruth]

The context doesn't support your claims. Take a look:

Joh 20:19-23 NASB So when it was evening on that day, the first day of the week, and when the doors were shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in their midst and *said to them, "Peace be with you." 20 And when He had said this, He showed them both His hands and His side. The disciples then rejoiced when they saw the Lord. 21 So Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you." 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them and *said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 "If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained."​

It is other people's sins that the apostles are given authority to forgive and to retain. It is not their own sins but the sins of other people. That is significant and it makes the case against your claim that the sins are "personal" by which you appear to mean a sin against the apostle who grants absolution or refuses absolution and so retains the sins.

so exactly where does it say that you have to go to the priest, and confess your sins to him, and only he can forgive you? Show me from the passage you quoted above, or any other

 

[Principal Moo]

What makes you think you are “worthy”....the elements are not important....the “do this in remembrance of me” is. Some are more interested in their imagined “worthiness” and the unbiblical and imaginary trans....whatever it is...than they are the Saviour in which the whole thing is based on.

As an Orthodox Christian, I believe that I should confess my sins, and receive absolution for them, before receiving Holy Communion.

 

[TheBibleIsTruth]

As an Orthodox Christian, I believe that I should confess my sins, and receive absolution for them, before receiving Holy Communion.

but, where in the passage you quote from John, is there any mention of confession to any priest, and that he is the only one who can forgive you?

 

[GingerBeer]

so exactly where does it say that you have to go to the priest, and confess your sins to him, and only he can forgive you? Show me from the passage you quoted above, or any other

Are you constructing a system of beliefs by rejecting some passages so that you can emphasise other passages. How does that work for a Christian? Since John 20:19-23 says what it says don't Christians just have to man up and deal with it? "If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained." is a fact of revealed truth and you need to deal with it. What does it matter if somebody else goes to a priest for absolution when the issue is what do you do to properly comply with what Jesus said?

Jas 5:16 NASB Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.

Mat 18:15-20 NASB "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16 "But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. 17 "If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18 "Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven. 19 "Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. 20 "For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst."​

Take time to consider the two passages I just quoted and see how it works in the Christian life.

​

 

[FireDragon76]

but, where in the passage you quote from John, is there any mention of confession to any priest, and that he is the only one who can forgive you?

Please remember this is an Orthodox Christian section of the forum and people need to be respectful of the Orthodox Christian doctrines and practices. Biblicism is not consistent with Orthodox theology and it's unwelcome. St. Justin Martyr's Corner is the place to debate Orthodox Christian viewpoints.

 

[Principal Moo]

but, where in the passage you quote from John, is there any mention of confession to any priest, and that he is the only one who can forgive you?

I will quote the footnotes of the Orthodox Study Bible:

"20:21-23 Christ commissions the disciples to continue His mission on earth, granting them the Holy Spirit and the authority to forgive the sins of others. Through this direct consecration and through apostolic continuity, Christ's own Priesthood is communicated to the bishops and presbyters (priests) of the Church."

Today's Eastern Orthodox bishops and priests can trace their apostolic succession to these very disciples.

 

[TheBibleIsTruth]

Are you constructing a system of beliefs by rejecting some passages so that you can emphasise other passages. How does that work for a Christian? Since John 20:19-23 says what it says don't Christians just have to man up and deal with it? "If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained." is a fact of revealed truth and you need to deal with it. What does it matter if somebody else goes to a priest for absolution when the issue is what do you do to properly comply with what Jesus said?

Jas 5:16 NASB Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.

Mat 18:15-20 NASB "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16 "But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. 17 "If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18 "Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven. 19 "Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. 20 "For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst."​

Take time to consider the two passages I just quoted and see how it works in the Christian life.

​

ALL sins that are committed, and ultimately committed against God. So, if you steal, cheat, lie, commit adultery, murder, etc, etc, even though another "party" of human beings has been wronged, yet the greater offense is against the God of the Holy Bible. Nothing of what you have quoted says that when we have wronged anyone, that we are to confess this to any priest, and then accept from him our forgiveness. Where is God in all of this? Jesus Christ is our High Priest, who ALONE has this role. I see no where in the New Testament, where we do not seek God for forgiveness directly, and are to go to another human being! This is why some churches reject the sole Authority of the Holy Bible, because to do what they want, which is not mentioned in the Bible, they sanction it themselves, and thereby place themselves on equal authority with the Word of God, and God Himself! Absolution of sins as taught by the Roman Catholics, Orthodox are NOT Biblical, but man-made!

 

[TheBibleIsTruth]

Please remember this is an Orthodox Christian section of the forum and people need to be respectful of the Orthodox Christian doctrines and practices. Biblicism is not consistent with Orthodox theology and it's unwelcome. St. Justin Martyr's Corner is the place to debate Orthodox Christian viewpoints.

So, is the Orthodox faith not Biblical? Why is it wrong to challenge the views of others, when they are Biblically wrong? Just because beliefs are challenged as wrong, people who do so are not "welcome"? Are we all meant to be puppets? Gosh, its no wonder why the "christian church" is in such a mess!

 

[Principal Moo]

So, is the Orthodox faith not Biblical? Why is it wrong to challenge the views of others, when they are Biblically wrong? Just because beliefs are challenged as wrong, people who do so are not "welcome"? Are we all meant to be puppets? Gosh, its no wonder why the "christian church" is in such a mess!

I mean this to be as charitable as possible, but your response here shows that you are only seeing what you want to see. FireDragon76 did not forbid you from asking questions, but rather reminded you that there is a specific place for debate.

I posted a question for other Orthodox Christians as I wanted their opinions on a specific question that I had. If you want to begin a discussion about your concerns, please feel free to post in the correct forum.

 

[Paidiske]

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