Absolutely Free or Not?

[holdon]

So then God just declares you righteous without any actual righteousness being worked out?

When does God declare you righteous?

 

[mlqurgw]

When does God declare you righteous?

Not to be childish, but I would prefer that you answer my question first. I am sure you are not going to like my answer and do not want to get off on a tangent just yet.

 

[holdon]

Not to be childish, but I would prefer that you answer my question first. I am sure you are not going to like my answer and do not want to get off on a tangent just yet.

Romans 3:28 "for we reckon that a man is justified by faith, without works of law."

 

[mlqurgw]

Romans 3:28 "for we reckon that a man is justified by faith, without works of law."

Can you actually answer my question? Does God declare your faith to be righteousness without any actual righteousness being worked out?

 

[Outrider]

Can you actually answer my question? Does God declare your faith to be righteousness without any actual righteousness being worked out?

No, he can't answer, because he sees clearly that the righeousness that justifies us is not ours, but is given to us (bestowed, imputed, counted to) and that, being not our own, must be Christ's...just as the Scripture clearly teaches. He sees that he is wrong, so he quotes partial Scripture without interpretation as a dodge because the context those Scriptures are couched in back up imputation to the hilt.

 

[holdon]

Can you actually answer my question? Does God declare your faith to be righteousness without any actual righteousness being worked out?

I did answer your question: "man is justified by faith". "Without any works of law".

Do you believe God?

Romans 4:5 "but to him who does not work, but believes on him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness."

 

[mlqurgw]

I did answer your question: "man is justified by faith". "Without any works of law".

Do you believe God?

Romans 4:5 "but to him who does not work, but believes on him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness."

No you haven't answered my question. It is a simple yes or no. Does God count your faith as righteousness without any actual righteousness being worked out?

 

[Outrider]

I did answer your question: "man is justified by faith". "Without any works of law".

Do you believe God?

Romans 4:5 "but to him who does not work, but believes on him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness."

What righteousness? His own righteousness? Where does that righteousness come from that is accounted to him?

 

[holdon]

No you haven't answered my question. It is a simple yes or no. Does God count your faith as righteousness without any actual righteousness being worked out?

Sola fide.

 

[Outrider]

Sola fide.

So a man is saved by his faith?

 

[holdon]

So a man is saved by his faith?

For ye are saved by grace, through faith

 

[mlqurgw]

Sola fide.

This is getting ridiculous. You are attempting to deflect rather than answer directly. Your lack of a simple yes or no speaks loudly.

 

[holdon]

This is getting ridiculous. You are attempting to deflect rather than answer directly. Your lack of a simple yes or no speaks loudly.

I have answered yours. You have not answered my questions...

 

[Outrider]

For ye are saved by grace, through faith

Where does God and Jesus come into all of this?

By the way, the grace and the faith are gifts of God, lest any man should boast and say, "I was saved by my faith".

 

[holdon]

because the context those Scriptures are couched in back up imputation to the hilt.

You have not given those Scriptures. Because there are none that say that Christ's righteous life is imputed to us.

 

[mlqurgw]

I have answered yours. You have not answered my questions...

Anyone can see you haven't answered at all. Still, just to appease you I will answer yours. I believe your question was when are we justified? I believe we were justified in the purpose of God before the foundation of the world in the Covenant of Grace. We were justified in time when Christ died and rose again and we come to know that justification when we are regenetated.


Now I have given you a direct answer to your question. I will ask that before you go off seeking to refute my answer that you give a direct answer to my question.

 

[holdon]

Where does God and Jesus come into all of this?

By the way, the grace and the faith are gifts of God, lest any man should boast and say, "I was saved by my faith".

Romans 4:5 "his faith is reckoned as righteousness". Whose faith is that? It says it right there: his faith.

 

[Outrider]

You have not given those Scriptures. Because there are none that say that Christ's righteous life is imputed to us.

There is no Scripture that teaches that a man is saved by his own faith alone.

 

[Outrider]

You have not given those Scriptures. Because there are none that say that Christ's righteous life is imputed to us.

There is no Scripture that teaches that a man is saved by his own faith alone.

 

[holdon]

I believe we were justified in the purpose of God before the foundation of the world in the Covenant of Grace. We were justified in time when Christ died and rose again and we come to know that justification when we are regenetated.

Justified before the foundation of the world? Where do you get that from?
Justified when Christ died and rose again? Where do you get that from?