Absolute proof.. can't deny.. the earth is flat

[trophy33]

The origins of the practice of science began in pagan societies, Egyptians, Greeks, etc,,

But its source is not paganism.

 

[prodromos]

The origins of the practice of science began in pagan societies, Egyptians, Greeks, etc,,

The sciences in Greece had led them from believing in many God's to belief in one God which prepared them to readily accept the Gospel of Christ. Science is a pursuit of truth and understanding. There is nothing pagan about that.

 

[prodromos]

But its source is not paganism.

He just wants to tar it with that brush so he can dismiss it as something anti-Christian.

 

[d taylor]

The sciences in Greece had led them from believing in many God's to belief in one God which prepared them to readily accept the Gospel of Christ. Science is a pursuit of truth and understanding. There is nothing pagan about that.

-
​

Why do you pick and choose of what science you will believe. If its pursuit is truth why not believe all of science.

 

[trophy33]

-
​

Why do you pick and choose of what science you will believe. If its pursuit is truth why not believe all of science.

Science does not require belief in this sense. Some philosophical presuppositions, yes. But the findings of science should be repeatable, i.e. confirmed by testing.

 

[d taylor]

Science does not require belief in this sense. Some philosophical presuppositions, yes. But the findings of science should be repeatable, i.e. confirmed by testing.

-
​

Are you personally doing this testing or experiments, if not, then you are operating on belief or faith on someone's testimony.

Even after that you must determined if they are telling the truth, then after examining their evidence you must come to either belief in what they are saying or no belief in their testimony and evidence.

 

[trophy33]

Are you personally doing this testing or experiments, if not, then you are operating on belief or faith on someone's testimony.​

This is not a good description of our situation.

First, we can scientifically test whatever we are especially interested in. You are welcome to study the area you like, to participate in school science projects, to become a scientist etc.

Second, in our common life, we test science every day by using its products. From medical treatments to using a computer, GPS or a phone. If you ever boarded a ship, a plane or a train, its all built on science. If you drive a car - science again. Whenever you switch your lights on - its a testing of the science that is behind it.

 

[d taylor]

This is not a good description of our situation.

First, we can scientifically test whatever we are especially interested in. You are welcome to study the area you like, to participate in school science projects, to become a scientist etc.

Second, in our common life, we test science every day by using its products. From medical treatments to using a computer, GPS or a phone. If you ever boarded a ship, a plane or a train, its all built on science. If you drive a car - science again. Whenever you switch your lights on - its a testing of the science that is behind it.

-
​

What does turning on a light have to do with, a scientist saying the earth is billions of years old. To the point of this is accepted as truth.

 

[prodromos]

What does turning on a light have to do with, a scientist saying the earth is billions of years old. To the point of this is accepted as truth.

I don't accept that as truth. I believe God created a mature universe, just as He didn't create Adam as single cell and slowly grow him to adulthood. Adam would have appeared to be many years old at his creation, and the universe is no different.

You implied earlier that our belief that we can grasp the universe is evidence we believe in a finite God. Not only is that nonsense, but the very fact that you are posting on this forum is evidence that we are able to figure out God's creation. The vast communication networks using both radio frequency and optical fibre transmissions, utilising incredibly complex devices built out of layers of silicon with properties altered by precise doping with different elements, all of which have been developed because our unlimited God has created an ordered universe in which we can do science, we can comprehend and build machines which do what we design them to do.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Interesting how you equate demons, who are from the seed of satan, to humans who are from the seed of Adam. And tie their belief of God being one, to human belief in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life. And from this you say believers are in hell.

How do you work a globe earth into God's promise to Hezekiah. Who stated as a sign that God would extend Hezekiah's life. God would have the shadow on the sundial return the ten steps it had gone down, where The Bible states So the sun returned ten degrees on the dial by which it had gone down.

From my observations you must view God as a very poor communicator as to His creation accounts in The Bible. So much so that you have to turn to pagan science for creation information.

James was using demons as an example to men who claimed to believe but whose life says otherwise. A little bit of sarcasm from James that rings true 2,000 years later. I don't believe science when it comes to creation. I firmly oppose evolution as a theory. I do not accept that the Bible states the the earth is flat. From my observations you are unteachable and unable to accept reality. God communicates just fine. You do not listen.

 

[Aussie Pete]

-
​

What does turning on a light have to do with, a scientist saying the earth is billions of years old. To the point of this is accepted as truth.

Science nowadays is full of speculation and guesswork, especially in relation to evolution and the age of the earth. Some of it is to the point of absurdity, especially when it comes to evolution. However, science in its purest sense is simply discovering what God has already done. Gravity was obvious well before Newton "discovered" it. People did not know what they were observing. When it comes to the shape of the earth, it is observable and measurable, directly and indirectly. FE people are clueless when it comes to either measure. They deny actual observations and reject actual measurements. To me, Darwin disciples have more credibility than FE people. And I reject evolution completely.

 

[Aussie Pete]

You can receive something and not accept it.

But can you accept without receiving? I don't think so. In your idea, "accept" is more accurate than "receive". My understanding of the word "receive" in this context is this. People were much more formal in the 19th century. A salesman might go to a doctor's premises to try and sell some medications. He would present his business card to the receptionist. The receptionist would give the card to the doctor. If the doctor was interested, he would tell the receptionist to let the salesman in. The receptionist would say, "The doctor will receive you now". I think we make salvation too complicated at times. "Whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved". Acts 2:21 Not whoever follows the right formula according to my doctrinal biases.

 

[trophy33]

-
​

What does turning on a light have to do with, a scientist saying the earth is billions of years old. To the point of this is accepted as truth.

You were making claims about science, generally.

 

[d taylor]

James was using demons as an example to men who claimed to believe but whose life says otherwise. A little bit of sarcasm from James that rings true 2,000 years later. I don't believe science when it comes to creation. I firmly oppose evolution as a theory. I do not accept that the Bible states the the earth is flat. From my observations you are unteachable and unable to accept reality. God communicates just fine. You do not listen.

In you post to me back when we started this discussion. You did not say men who claim to believe, you stated believers are in hell.

 

[Aussie Pete]

In you post to me back when we started this discussion. You did not say men who claim to believe, you stated believers are in hell.

Yes. It is possible to believe without faith. How many people have gone out the front at Billy Graham crusades, for example? I was one when I was 16. According to statistics, only 4% of those conversions are genuine. I was one of the 96%. Did I believe the facts? Yes. Did I consider myself a Christian? Sure. Was I saved? No way. And countless people are self deceived in a similar way. Part of the problem is the human condition as described in the parable of the sower. Part of the problem (Not with Billy Graham) is the watering down of the gospel to make it palatable to the world.

 

[d taylor]

Yes. It is possible to believe without faith. How many people have gone out the front at Billy Graham crusades, for example? I was one when I was 16. According to statistics, only 4% of those conversions are genuine. I was one of the 96%. Did I believe the facts? Yes. Did I consider myself a Christian? Sure. Was I saved? No way. And countless people are self deceived in a similar way. Part of the problem is the human condition as described in the parable of the sower. Part of the problem (Not with Billy Graham) is the watering down of the gospel to make it palatable to the world.

-
​

Now i see, belief is not enough, a person must also have works. I should have caught that when you said believers are in hell. The good ole faith plus works to earn salvation.

 

[prodromos]

-
​

Now i see, belief is not enough, a person must also have works. I should have caught that when you said believers are in hell. The good ole faith plus works to earn salvation.

No, that good ole evidence of genuine faith.

 

[d taylor]

You were making claims about science, generally.

-
​

Actually i was stating that science works off of belief in someone, namely a scientist and what they say is true or fact. Unless you are personally conducting experiments.

 

[d taylor]

No, that good ole evidence of genuine faith.

The evidence of faith is based on God's promise, who can not lie. Where as man can lie and be deceptive, so anything based off of mans action's accounts for nothing.

That is why the only way a person who has believed in Jesus for Eternal Life salvation. Can never look to themselves for assurance, how they are living their life, how much they are doing for God or how they feel each day. As people fail daily in their lives and will go from feeling saved, to feeling completely lost.

Assurance can rest only in God's perfect promise, that all who believe in Jesus has received The Life of God, has crossed over from death to life and become a permanent born again child of God.


_______________

J. Wilbur Chapman tells the following true story of how D.L. Moody used John 5:24 to help him gain assurance of salvation:

I was studying for the ministry, and I heard that D.L. Moody was to preach in Chicago. I went
to hear him. Finally I got into his aftermeeting. I shall never forget the thrill that went through me when he came and sat down beside me as an inquirer. He asked me if I was a Christian. I said, “Mr. Moody, I am not sure whether I am a Christian or not.’
He very kindly took his Bible and opened it to the fifth chapter of
John, and the twenty-fourth verse, which reads as follows: “Verily,
verily, I say unto you, he that heareth my word, and beleiveth on Him
that sent Me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into
condemnation, but is passed from death unto life.”

Suppose you had read it through for the first time, wouldn’t you
think it was wonderful? I read it through, and he said, “Do you believe
it?”
I said, “Yes.”
“Do you accept it?”
I said, “Yes.”
“Well, are you a Christian?”
“Mr. Moody, I sometimes think I am, and sometimes I am afraid I am not.”
He very kindly said, “Read it again.”
So I read it again, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that heareth
my word, and beleiveth on Him that sent Me, hath everlasting life, and
shall not come into condemnation, but is passed from death unto life.”
Then he said, “Do you believe it?”
I said, “Yes.”
“Do you receive Him?”
I said, “Yes.”
“Well,” he said, “are you a Christian?”
I just started to say over again that sometimes I was afraid I was
not, when the only time in all the years I knew him and loved him, he
was sharp with me. He turned on me with his eyes flashing and said, “See
here, whom are you doubting?”
Then I saw it for the first time, that when I was afraid I was not a
Christian I was doubting God’s Word. I read it again with my eyes
overflowing with tears.
Since that day I have had many sorrows and many joys, but never have I
doubted for a moment that I was a Christian, because God said it.

 

[prodromos]

Actually i was stating that science works off of belief in someone, namely a scientist and what they say is true or fact. Unless you are personally conducting experiments.

That isn't how science works. Theories are put forward and are tested, both by the person suggesting the theory and by their peers. If testing produces different results to what was expected then it is back to the drawing board. Some theories seem to have taken on a life of their own, where people continue to hold to them despite the evidence, such as "evolution", but that is due to belief, not science.

However, your belief in flat earth is based on your own, personal, fallible interpretation of Scripture and it fails every test. Nothing we observe matches what we would see if the earth was flat. You actually have a great deal in common with those who believe we are the result of evolution.