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About Sabbath

Discussion in 'Denomination Specific Theology' started by fatherforgivethem, Apr 23, 2021.

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  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Col 2 - is a case of Paul condemning man-made-traditions "making stuff up" and also affirming the same pre-cross doctrine of "judge not that you be not judged" both in OT and NT.

    Col 2 is not a case of Paul condemning the Bible or condemning eating or condemning drinking or condemning Bible holy days.

    In fact in Romans 14 Paul flat out prohibits anyone from condemning observance of a Bible approved holy day in the Lev 23 list of annual holy days. "one man observes one day above another while another man observes them all...He who observes the day observes it to the LORD"

    ====================
    Col 2
    4 I say this so that no one will deceive you with persuasive arguments. 5 For even though I am absent in body, I am nevertheless with you in spirit, rejoicing to see your orderly manner and the stability of your faith in Christ.

    6 Therefore, as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, 7 having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith, just as you were instructed, and overflowing with gratitude.

    8 See to it that there is no one who takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception in accordance with human tradition, in accordance with the elementary principles of the world, rather than in accordance with Christ. ... 13 And when you were dead in your wrongdoings and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our wrongdoings, 14 having canceled the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.

    16 Therefore, no one is to act as your judge in regard to food and drink, or in respect to a festival or a new moon, or a Sabbath day— 17 things which are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. 18 Take care that no one keeps defrauding you of your prize by delighting in humility and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding firmly to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.

    20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, 21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of man? 23 These are matters which do have the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and humility and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.
     
  2. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Then know that everyday is the Lord's day. Rest in Him . Be blessed.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2021
  3. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    Virtually the whole Christian Church from earliest times wherever they were located observed Sunday as the important day to gather and read the Word and celebrate the Lords Supper, with Saturday losing its preeminent place and eventually no longer observed as it was for the Jews as the day of rest and worship.

    Apparently, based on the teachings and practices they received, and due to the new way of fulfilling the law, by the Spirit rather than by the letter, the strictly moral laws of the ten commandments were still held to be obligatory while the observance of a day was optional and their new tradition held Sunday, the day of the resurrection, as more important to Christians. The Spirit internally compels man to live righteously, to be free from the slavery of sin, to "put to death the deeds of the flesh"- which don't involve observances of days.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2021
  4. Hazelelponi

    Hazelelponi Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The only thing that defines whether or not you go to hell is faith in the work of our Savior or not.
     
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  5. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

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    I was simply asking a straight forward question and was looking for a straight forward answer. The same straight forward question that ewq1938 asked.
     
  6. HIM

    HIM Friend

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    Save it. You tried this with me and others here
     
  7. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

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    Amen! Romans 3:24 - being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2021
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  8. SabbathBlessings

    SabbathBlessings Well-Known Member

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    According to John, God’s saints have the faith and keep God’s commandments.


    Revelations 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
     
  9. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

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    To “keep” (Greek word “tereo” - guard, observe, watch over) the New Testament commandments of God for the body of Christ is descriptive of those who have placed their faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. (1 John 2:3)
     
  10. SabbathBlessings

    SabbathBlessings Well-Known Member

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    If you have faith in Jesus you do what He asks. If you love Jesus you will keep His commandments John 14:15

    John also goes on the say those that “do” His commandments enter into life. Not my words....

    Revelation 22:14 4 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
     
  11. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

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    Not your words, but it’s important to properly understand which commandments and what it means to “keep” His commandments for New Testament Christians. It does not mean perfectly obey the 10 commandments under the old covenant of law.
     
  12. SabbathBlessings

    SabbathBlessings Well-Known Member

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    All you have to do is read the next sentence to know that’s not true.

    These are direct references to God’s Ten.
    15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

    God’s Ten are in the New Covenant His laws written in our heart. Jeremiah 31:33
     
  13. SabbathBlessings

    SabbathBlessings Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you could provide scripture that says this.

    God told us six days are working days, but the seventh day is the Sabbath day to the Lord our God (real Lord’s day). We are told to keep Holy the Sabbath and God told us the Sabbath is on the seventh day. Exodus 20:8-11

    God not only personally spoke these words, He also wrote them and they were placed inside the ark and stored in the most holy of holy in the temple because that’s how sacred God’s will for us is.

    God bless
     
  14. Lawrence87

    Lawrence87 Active Member

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    I think these kind of issues result from the rejection of Church authority in favour of just using scripture. It's important to note that the Bible didn't exist for a good three centuries after the Church was started. It was the authority of the Church that determined scripture, and it is not like the canon of scripture was the only books that were around at the time, you can find all kinds of false writings that were circulating in the early centuries of the Church.

    To assert the authority of scripture necessitates the authority of the Church, because if the Church had no authority then we cannot say they preserved the right scripture. So if you accept the Church's authority in that regard then you ought have no problems accepting the day that the Church has regarded as Holy for thousands of years
     
  15. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

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    According to your interpretation but not actually. Do you honestly believe that you will receive eternal life based on the merits of perfectly obeying all 10 commandments from the old covenant of law? Why do we need faith in Jesus if we can do it all ourselves? Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of his finished work of redemption alone and not based on the merits of our works. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9 etc..).
     
  16. SabbathBlessings

    SabbathBlessings Well-Known Member

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    That’s why Jesus warned us about worshiping Him in vain by keeping the commandment of man and not the commandments of God. Mathew 15:3-9 The Church who made this change freely admits changing God’s day from Saturday to Sunday was not based on scripture authority and they want you to know when worshipping God on the first day you are not obeying God but a commandment of the Catholic Church. Who should we obey God or man that Jesus warns us not to do?


    It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church.
    —Priest Brady, in an address, reported in the Elizabeth, NJ ‘News’ on March 18, 1903.


    Protestants ... accept Sunday rather than Saturday as the day for public worship after the Catholic Church made the change... But the Protestant mind does not seem to realize that ... in observing Sunday, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the Church, the pope.
    —Our Sunday Visitor, February 5th, 1950.
    Of course these two old quotations are exactly correct. The Catholic Church designated Sunday as the day for corporate worship and gets full credit – or blame – for the change.
    —This Rock, The Magazine of Catholic Apologetics and Evangelization, p.8, June 1997


    Q. Have you any other proofs that they(Protestants) are not guided by the Scripture?

    A. Yes; so many, that we cannot admit more than a mere specimen into this small work. They reject much that is clearly contained in Scripture, and profess more that is nowhere discoverable in that Divine Book.

    Q. Give some examples of both?

    A. They should, if the Scripture were their only rule, wash the feet of one another, according to the command of Christ, in the 13th chap. of St. John; —they should keep, not the Sunday, but the Saturday, according to the commandment, "Remember thou keep holy the Sabbath-day;" for this commandment has not, in Scripture, been changed or abrogated;...
    —Rev. Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism; New York in 1857, page 101 Imprimatuer


    A. Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; —she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the Seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.
    —Rev. Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism; New York in 1857, page 174
     
  17. SabbathBlessings

    SabbathBlessings Well-Known Member

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    The same question was asked to Jesus and I will let Him respond

    Mathew 19: 16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”

    17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

    18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”

    Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and,‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

    20 The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?”

    This was a direct quote from God’s Ten. Jesus did not come to destroy God’s laws and made that very clear:

    Mathew 5:17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.
     
  18. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Romans 14:1-23. LOVE lesson. Be blessed.
     
  19. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

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    So your answer to my question, “do you honestly believe that you will receive eternal life based on the merits of perfectly obeying all 10 commandments from the old covenant of law” is a resounding YES? Jesus’ question should have brought conviction, but instead, the rich young ruler confidently and self righteously claimed that he has kept the commandments from his youth up. His riches had become his idol which kept him from believing in Jesus unto salvation. He was not fooling Jesus.
     
  20. SabbathBlessings

    SabbathBlessings Well-Known Member

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    You have to understand Paul in context. Paul makes it clear keeping God’s commandments is what matters 1 Corinthians 7:19 so Paul is not contradicting himself and is not talking about the seventh-day Sabbath here. He is referring to the feast days, not God’s 4th commandment that is eternal. Note that scripture also does not say every day is the Lord’s day which is what I asked you to quote.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2021
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