Abomination of desolation

[Justme]

To Prophecy Countdown,

You wrote in post#35
Who is it that sits on the Temple site and how long for?
John was taken in vision to the future Jerusalem Temple of God which at the time of Revelation being written did not exist in 90 to 95AD.

Jesus is now in the temple of God according to Hebrews 9:

12He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption.

This is just one viel away from the holy Place where the abomination that causes desolation is supposed to appear.
How will this evil thing get into that holy place and if it did who in Judea would ever see it?

Hebrews 9 tells us when too.

26Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.

When did he appear...at the end of the ages.

Justme

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

To Prophecy Countdown,

You wrote in post#35
Who is it that sits on the Temple site and how long for?
John was taken in vision to the future Jerusalem Temple of God which at the time of Revelation being written did not exist in 90 to 95AD.

Jesus is now in the temple of God according to Hebrews 9:

12 He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption.

This is just one viel away from the holy Place where the abomination that causes desolation is supposed to appear.
How will this evil thing get into that holy place and if it did who in Judea would ever see it?

Hebrews 9 tells us when too.

26Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.

When did he appear...at the end of the ages.

Justme

Greetings Justme,

We are discussing the Earthly Temple.

I hope that you are not confusing the Heavenly Sanctuary with that of the Earthly Sanctuary, to be rebuilt on mount Zion at the sides of the North.

Satan will be cast out of Heaven and down to Earth so, I hope you are not suggesting that Satan enters the Sanctuary in Heaven. He can’t at the "time of the end" during Daniel's prophecies, because he has been thrown out of Heaven for good, he and his angels.

He can't even enter back into Heaven let alone the Heavenly Sanctuary, within Daniel's vision of the “2300 evening and morning” period, meaning 2300 days that he has left to do mischief.

Jesus is not in the Earthly Jerusalem Temple.

The impostor, that is Satan will sit in the Temple when it is rebuilt, in Jerusalem. Satan will sit in the mount of the congregation at the sides of the North.

Exodus 31:7. The tabernacle of the congregation, and the ark of the testimony, and the mercy seat that is thereupon, and all the furniture of the tabernacle

The Earthly Temple is situated on the mount at the sides of the North On Earth, which is the one that the Bible is speaking of, not the Heavenly Sanctuary.

Psalm 48: 1. Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised in the city of our God, in the mountain of his holiness.

2 Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is MOUNT ZION, on THE SIDES OF THE NORTH, the city of the great King.

What is the desire of Satan?

Isaiah 14:13. For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will SIT UPON THE MOUNT OF THE CONGREGATION, IN THE SIDES OF THE NORTH:

Things are not killed in Heaven, nothing dies in Heaven.

He will take away the daily and cause its desolation within 1290 days and in the middle of the last week Satan will make a new covenant with many, 3 ½ days later the two witnesses who will be killed in the middle of the week are raised 3 ½ days later at the end of the 1290 day period at trumpet 7.

Seeing that Satan sits in that earthly Temple in Jerusalem those in Judea will see him do it. Jesus tells them to run to the mountains.

Jesus is given Honour, glory, back in Heaven.

Jesus is the Lamb Honour and glory is given to the Lamb who is the only man that can open the Book.
Jesus enters the Heavenly sanctuary, the earthly being but a replica of the Heavenly.

Hebrews 9: 11. But Christ came as High Priest of the good THINGS TO COME, with the GREATER AND MORE PERFECT TABERNACLE, NOT MADE BY HANDS, that is, not of THIS CREATION.

The perfect Tabernacle of God is in Heaven, it is not the Tabernacle that Satan enters and pollutes on Earth.

Hebrews 9: 24. For Christ HAS NOT ENTERED THE HOLY PLACES MADE BY HANDS, which are COPIES OF THE TRUE, but INTO HEAVEN ITSELF, NOW to appear in the presence of God FOR US;

25 not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another.

26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, ONCE at the END OF THE AGES, He has APPEARED to put away sin by the SACROFICE OF HIMSELF.

27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,

28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

The Heavenly Sanctuary is for the Lamb of God to enter not Satan.

Adventists incorrectly teach that it is the ”Heavenly sanctuary that Satan enters,” well that makes it impossible for those in Judea to see it if it happens in Heaven.

It is Jesus that said in Matt 24:15 and Mark 13:14.

Matt 24 15. Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16“then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.”

Now if Satan enters the Heavenly sanctuary in Heaven, which is impossible how can those in Judea see it?

If they can’t see it how will they know when to run?
People will run to the mountains on Earth, when they see the abomination of desolation sit In the Earthly Sanctuary..

The people of Judea will sea Satan enter the Earthly sanctuary in mount Zion.

Daniel concerns the time of the end on earth when it all happens around Jerusalem.

Dan 8:17. So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

Jesus suffered once for our sins. No more than once. I have never suggested more than that, for that would be unnecessary.

Maranatha.
P.C

 

[Justme]

Hi,

That is pretty much what I am saying. The 'holy place' that the abomination that causes desolation' has never been available since it was replaced by the one that Jesus is in now. Hebrews 8 and 9.

All the things you talk about already happened once, why would it have to happen again? The earthly temple WAS destroyed.

Jesus already has a 'temple' in Heaven why would He want any one on earth to build Him another one.

This building a new temple sounds very far fetched to me.

Justme

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

Hi,

That is pretty much what I am saying. The 'holy place' that the abomination that causes desolation' has never been available since it was replaced by the one that Jesus is in now. Hebrews 8 and 9.

All the things you talk about already happened once, why would it have to happen again? The earthly temple WAS destroyed.

Jesus already has a 'temple' in Heaven why would He want any one on earth to build Him another one.

This building a new temple sounds very far fetched to me.

Justme

Greetings.

Quote
That is pretty much what I am saying. The 'holy place' that the abomination that causes desolation' has never been available since it was replaced by the one that Jesus is in now. Hebrews 8 and 9.
______________________________________________
The Earthly Temple was not replaced by the heavenly Temple. The Earthly Temple is a shadow of the Heavenly Temple.
For those in JUDEA that SEE the abomination that causes desolation, do so looking at the rebuilt Temple.
You do not seem to understand that Daniel’s vision concerns “the time of the end.”
_____________________________________________

Quote
All the things you talk about already happened once, why would it have to happen again? The earthly temple WAS destroyed.
____________________________________________
No they have not "all happened," because Daniel’s visions concern the “time of the end.”
That is a period of 2300 “evening and morning.” The Temple was destroyed but that does not fulfil the prophecy of Jesus, because the wailing wall still stands and not all the stones were thrown down. Jesus said not one stone would remain upon another. Well look at the wall.
____________________________________________
Quote
Jesus already has a 'temple' in Heaven why would He want any one on earth to build Him another one.
___________________________________________

He doesn’t want anyone to rebuild “another one.” It is the Jews that want to rebuild it. That is why, in a future vision John can measure it.

He is told by Jesus to measure the Temple of God, that is the one that will sit on the mount at the sides of the North, the mount of the congregation in Jerusalem. But. do not measure the daily that is going to be given to the Gentiles 42 months.
Don’t you know where the mount of the congregation is after I explained it with Bible texts?
__________________________________________
Quote
This building a new temple sounds very far fetched to me.
__________________________________________

So, it seems far fetched does it?

Let me show you what is far fetched.
Must I remind you that Revelation was written 90 to 95AD, 20 TO 25 YEARS AFTER the JERUSALEM Temple was destroyed.

So, Why would Jesus say to John, “measure the Temple of God,” when Jesus knew that the old Temple was destroyed 20 to 25 years earlier?

Wouldn’t Jesus know that it was to be rebuilt?

So, how could Jesus who told John what to write about the future in Revelation, be talking of things in the past, as you claim if Revelation is a revealing and is speaking of “things to come?”

The Temple will stand in the city that is to be trampled on for 42 months by the Gentiles and Jesus knew it, that is why HE said measure it, or do you think Jesus was mistaken about the future?

How can Jesus say measure it if He knew it was destroyed?

The only way Jesus can do that is if He is speaking of the future rebuilt Temple don't you think?

Reveletiont was written after 70AD, so how is it you claim the Temple prophcies are all in the past?



“The city where also our Lord was crucified.” Is where the Temple will be rebuilt, Jesus would not tell John to write this stuff after the fulfilment of it. How can he measure a Temple if it is not be rebuilt in the future?

Sorry, they are not fulfilled at all.

__________________________________________

Quote
This building a new temple sounds very far fetched to me.
___________________________________________

I think the opposite, and rest my case.
P C.

 

[RaptureTicketHolder]

Hey PC

You might have already figured this out, but JustMe's take is from Mormon doctrine.

You can most likely understand the far fetched feeling you get by thinking in terms of this doctrine where Just's posts are concerned.

Very Briefly:

The 'gods' are in their places in heaven(s) with Satan as Christs brother who has just as easy access to the Lord as Christ has, heavenly temple or no....

 

[Justme]

Hey PC

You might have already figured this out, but JustMe's take is from Mormon doctrine.

You can most likely understand the far fetched feeling you get by thinking in terms of this doctrine where Just's posts are concerned.

Very Briefly:

The 'gods' are in their places in heaven(s) with Satan as Christs brother who has just as easy access to the Lord as Christ has, heavenly temple or no....

Boy, that largest protestant church in Canada that I support is gonna be ticked when they find out I'm a Mormon...how long have I been one, and do I enjoy it?


Justme

 

[Justme]

Hi,

I don't know if you want to defend your case that's rested or not, but if you do I will put forth some questions and comments. If you don't want to defend it that is your business and we both just carry on.

You wrote:
You do not seem to understand that Daniel’s vision concerns “the time of the end.”

It remains to be seen what 'end' is being discussed.If we continue this, however, it will come out.

Did the abomination that causes desolation appear in the earthly temple or not?

If it didn't how did the friends of Jesus know it was time to flee to the mountains?

If they didn't flee to the mountains they would have been in the mess at the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple. Early historians said they were not.

Jesus predicted that the temple would be destroyed.He was right.

Where does it say Jesus included this wailing wall. If the bible doesn't say He did include the wall, we can not assume that He meant to.

All Jesus said was:
Mark 2
2"Do you see all these great buildings?" replied Jesus. "Not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down."

Buildings He said, buildings ...nothing about walls. See these buildings...

Jesus knew about the impending destruction of the earthly temple in Jerusalem and He acurately predicted it's fall within the generation of His apostles.

If the temple was destroyed, the people fled the tribulation of the time, if the people fled the tribulation of the time, they saw the abomination that causes desolation in the holy place.If the holy place was in the earthly temple the people of Judea could see it. If they saw the abomination in the holy place in the temple and the temple was destroyed, that part of the prophecy is over. There is only one great tribulation.........so go figure.

Hebrews plainly states that Jesus is now in the temple in Heaven as I quoted before. I will put forth these verses for you to look at if you care to. Most of Hebrews 8 and 9 deal with this issue.

Hebrews 9
12 He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption.

26Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Note the 'end of the ages' stuff.

Justme

 

[ArtistEd]

Must I remind you that Revelation was written 90 to 95AD, 20 TO 25 YEARS AFTER the JERUSALEM Temple was destroyed.

You need to be careful here. The Bible says that out of the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses, let every word be established. There is not even 1 eyewitness concerning this statement. Hardly what you'd want to hang your Biblical doctrines on, would it?

As to the "wailing wall", perhaps it would be better to listen to the actual eyewitnesses concerning the destruction of Jerusalem

http://www.askelm.com/temple/t980504.htm

Ed

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

I will get back to you Ed.
P C.

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

Hey PC

You might have already figured this out, but JustMe's take is from Mormon doctrine.

You can most likely understand the far fetched feeling you get by thinking in terms of this doctrine where Just's posts are concerned.

Very Briefly:

The 'gods' are in their places in heaven(s) with Satan as Christs brother who has just as easy access to the Lord as Christ has, heavenly temple or no....

Thanks friend, that put a real big smile on my face.
I appreciate your comments.

P C.

 

[Justme]

Hi,

You need to be careful here. The Bible says that out of the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses, let every word be established. There is not even 1 eyewitness concerning this statement. Hardly what you'd want to hang your Biblical doctrines on, would it?

As to the "wailing wall", perhaps it would be better to listen to the actual eyewitnesses concerning the destruction of Jerusalem

http://www.askelm.com/temple/t980504.htm

Ed

Thanks for posting that link, that blows one argument out of the water.

Interesting.

Justme

 

[RaptureTicketHolder]

Boy, that largest protestant church in Canada that I support is gonna be ticked when they find out I'm a Mormon...how long have I been one, and do I enjoy it?


Justme

Well,

Here is what I knew of your "name", from what I noticed this person is Mormon, so maybe a duel identity....

Profile for JustMe





What you are posting here sure does seem to go along with what is accepted in Mormonism. Then again, I am still learning!

 

[Justme]

Well,

Here is what I knew of your "name", from what I noticed this person is Mormon, so maybe a duel identity....

Profile for JustMe





What you are posting here sure does seem to go along with what is accepted in Mormonism. Then again, I am still learning!

Sorry,

Note the space between the just and the me-I'm not spaced out-

Justme

 

[ArtistEd]

Hi,



Thanks for posting that link, that blows one argument out of the water.

Interesting.

Justme

Your welcome. It just goes to show how important it is to do the research ourselves on something we've read or heard, as it may or may not be true.
Ed

 

[RaptureTicketHolder]

Sorry,

Note the space between the just and the me-I'm not spaced out-

Justme

Are you so sure????

 

[Justme]

Hi RaptureTicketHolder,

Verily, verily, I tell you the truth, I am as sure that I am not a Mormon as I am that there is no rapture and that any future building of any temple changes absolutely nothing.

Justme

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

Hi,
Originally Posted By: ArtistEd

You need to be careful here. The Bible says that out of the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses, let every word be established. There is not even 1 eyewitness concerning this statement. Hardly what you'd want to hang your Biblical doctrines on, would it?

As to the "wailing wall", perhaps it would be better to listen to the actual eyewitnesses concerning the destruction of Jerusalem

http://www.askelm.com/temple/t980504.htm

Ed


Thanks for posting that link, that blows one argument out of the water.

Interesting.

Justme

Posts: 201

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

Justme Quotations
That is pretty much what I am saying. The 'holy place' that the abomination that causes desolation' has never been available since it was replaced by the one that Jesus is in now. Hebrews 8 and 9.
______________________________________________
The Earthly Temple was not replaced by the heavenly Temple. The Earthly Temple is a shadow of the Heavenly Temple.
For those in JUDEA that SEE the abomination that causes desolation, do so looking at the rebuilt Temple.
You do not seem to understand that Daniel’s vision concerns “the time of the end.”
_____________________________________________

Quote
All the things you talk about already happened once, why would it have to happen again? The earthly temple WAS destroyed.
____________________________________________
No they have not "all happened," because Daniel’s visions concern the “time of the end.”
That is a period of 2300 “evening and morning.” The Temple was destroyed but that does not fulfil the prophecy of Jesus, because the wailing wall still stands and not all the stones were thrown down. Jesus said not one stone would remain upon another. Well look at the wall.
____________________________________________
Quote
Jesus already has a 'temple' in Heaven why would He want any one on earth to build Him another one.
___________________________________________

He doesn’t want anyone to rebuild “another one.” It is the Jews that want to rebuild it. That is why, in a future vision John can measure it.

He is told by Jesus to measure the Temple of God, that is the one that will sit on the mount at the sides of the North, the mount of the congregation in Jerusalem. But. do not measure the daily that is going to be given to the Gentiles 42 months.
Don’t you know where the mount of the congregation is after I explained it with Bible texts?
__________________________________________
Quote
This building a new temple sounds very far fetched to me.
__________________________________________

So, it seems far fetched does it?

Let me show you what is far fetched.
Must I remind you that Revelation was written 90 to 95AD, 20 TO 25 YEARS AFTER the JERUSALEM Temple was destroyed.

So, Why would Jesus say to John, “measure the Temple of God,” when Jesus knew that the old Temple was destroyed 20 to 25 years earlier?

Wouldn’t Jesus know that it was to be rebuilt?

So, how could Jesus who told John what to write about the future in Revelation, be talking of things in the past, as you claim if Revelation is a revealing and is speaking of “things to come?”

The Temple will stand in the city that is to be trampled on for 42 months by the Gentiles and Jesus knew it, that is why HE said measure it, or do you think Jesus was mistaken about the future?

How can Jesus say measure it if He knew it was destroyed?

The only way Jesus can do that is if He is speaking of the future rebuilt Temple don't you think?

Reveletiont was written after 70AD, so how is it you claim the Temple prophcies are all in the past?



“The city where also our Lord was crucified.” Is where the Temple will be rebuilt, Jesus would not tell John to write this stuff after the fulfilment of it. How can he measure a Temple if it is not be rebuilt in the future?

they are not fulfilled at all.

I think the opposite, and rest my case.
P C.

Nelsons Bible Reference Library.
TE:
A.D. 90–96
Although there has never been unanimity concerning the date of Revelation, the majority of evangelical scholarship follows the affirmation of Irenaeus that the time and occasion for the writing was the latter portion of Domitian’s reign (A.D. 90–96). Characteristic of Domitian’s assault on the embryonic Christian community was the practice of exile. John writes this epistle from exile on Patmos, a roughly horseshoe-shaped rock-quarry island about 6 miles wide and 10 miles long, approximately 25 miles off the coast of Asia Minor due west of Miletus. Patmos provided an ideal place of confinement for political prisoners. John possibly labored in the rock quarries alongside the rogues and slaves of the empire, chipping out the materials for pagan temples and state edifices. In the midst of such agonies, the Lord was uniquely revealed to John in a vision (cf. 1:1, 10–12).

To understand why the Jews want to build a third Temple is not that difficult. Because they did not recognise Jesus as the son of God and did not see HIM as the Savior they want a Temple to continue offerings.

When we look at Revelation 11, John is told to measure the Temple of God where the Two Witnesses are that are to witness for 1260 days.
Revelation 11:1.And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the TEMPLE OF GOD, and the ALTER, and them that worship therein.

John of course is speaking of the earthly Temple of God, because the court and Jerusalem is given over to the Gentiles for 42 months. 3 ½ years.

2.But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

If and I mean if "Revelation was written before the Temple’s destruction,” and was to be related to that Temple before its destruction, we would have seen the following.

Did the two witnesses in sackcloth witness for 1260 days in 70 to 74AD?

Were their dead bodies left in the street for 3 ½ days and did all nations and tongues see this?

Were they raised at the seventh trumpet which is at the second resurrection and at the time of the end ?

Did we see the Romans quake with fear when they were raised?

Seeing then that the Seven trumpet is sounded at the end of the two witnesses period of 1260 plus 3 ½ days later when raised, did all go through the seven trumpet and three woe periods during 70 to 74AD?

Did any in 70 AD hear the voice of God call them the two witnesses up 3 ½ days after they were killed by the beast with the mortal wound?

Did all this come to pass within the 2300 evening and morning period of Daniel 8:13, that’s about 6 and a bit years?

Did the Romans only trample on the city for 3 ½ years or was it longer?

Daniel 8:13. Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

14And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed

Did it stop raining for 1260 days back then whilst the two witnesses were supposedly witnessing?

Did we see the sanctuary cleansed in 77AD after the 2300 days of Daniel12:14. after it was smashed to bits in 70AD?

How could it be cleansed when it was destroyed?

Did we see the beast with the mortal wound around 70AD?

The two witnesses appear within the tribulation period at the time of the end did that happen in 70AD?

Did we see in Daniel 12:12 in the year 74 AD a blessing for those that got through that 1335 day period?

Did we see the plagues such as those described in Rev 11?

Did we see their enemies have a party and send gifts to each other in 74AD?

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

Did we see the great earthquake destroy a third of the city?

Did the Saints get there reward in 74AD or did John miss out because he was still alive?

Did we see Jesus destroy them that destroy the earth?



Rev 11:3. And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

4. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

5. And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

6. These have power to SHUT HEAVEN, that IT NOT RAIN not in the DAYS OF THEIR PROPHECY: and have power over WATERS to turn them to BLOOD, and to SMITE the earth with ALL PLAGUES, as often as they will. 7And when they shall have finished their testimony, THE BEAST that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and KILL THEM. 8And their DEAD BODIES shall lie IN THE STREET of the GREAT CITY, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our LORD WAS CRUCIFIED. 9And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and NATIONS SHALL SE THEIR DEAD BODIES three days and an half, and shall NOT suffer their dead bodies to be PUT IN GRAVES graves. 10And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and MAKE MERRY, and shall SEND GIFTS one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. 11And AFTER THREE DAYS and an HALF the Spirit of LIFE from GOD entered into them, and THEY STOOD UPON THEIR FEET; and GREAT FEAR fell upon them which SAW them. 12And they HEARD A GREAT VOICE FROM HEAVEN saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ASCENDED up to HEAVEN in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. 13And the same hour was there a GREAT EARTHQUAKE, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly. 15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The KINGDOM OF THIS WORLD ARE BECOME the kingdoms OF OUR LORD, and of his Christ; and he shall REIGN FOR EVER and ever. 16And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, 17Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. 18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give REWARD UNTO THY SERVANTS THE PROPHETS, and to the SAINTS, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest DESTROY THEM THAT DESTROY THE EARTH. 19And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an EARTHQUAKE, and great hail.

Prophecy Countdown.

 

[Justme]

Hi PC,

I will group your comments and questions into the following:

Your list of 'did we see this or that event.'

Apparently, yes we did.

Here is the link. Read Chaper 5 section 3.

http://wesley.nnu.edu/josephus/war-6.htm

Actually it fits so good I suspect it is manipulated, but I don't know.

Also most of the Book of Revelation is talking about a vision that includes events that happen in Heaven. We would not expect the ordinary mortal living person to see these things.

Your comments about the time of writing of the Book of Revelation.

As I said earlier this is a VISION of mostly heavenly events and where does it say John was taken to heaven at a future time or was John transported BACK in time. The fact that terms such as 'soon to come' about to ... means nothing, John is simply recording under the devine inspiration of God, what he saw in a vision. ( I think John saw the vision in his later years too, but I don't see why it matters when he saw it and for sure it is irrelevent when he wrote it.)

Concerning your mention of John measuring the temple, I really don't know why you would go there. One of the ways John COULD measure that temple is because the vision DOES begin prior to the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem in 70 AD. There is more scriptural proof for that than the building of a future temple.

Hebrews 9
8The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still standing.

Some have tried to tell me that the above verse refers to another temple of some other time, but no:

9This is an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper.

Present time= this generation of Christ and His deciples.

Further to that:
10They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings--external regulations applying until the time of the new order.

It explains that the old carrying on at the temple was window dressing and the real Mc Coy is available in the new order. Hence, some old order ends=end of the times.

Says so again here:

6Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.

I realize for you to get your theology to fit you either have to have two great tribulations or build another temple, but she ain't looking good from either angle.

You listed a number of biblical verses that I have no problem fitting in to my understanding here.

Have you other arguments?

Would you lay out what you feel Hebrews 9: 26 is saying?

I read it word for word direct. He appeared once for all at the end of the age. He gave the final sacrifice for all mankind at the end of the age.

I don't need a new temple, why would you?

Justme