Abomination of desolation

[rebaa]

Vin I see what your saying i just dont agree, But that is what makes forums interesting and makes us search the word.


on a different note
I do tend to 'get lost' in long responces as to who is saying what and what is being quoted

 

[Justme]

Hi PC,

From one of your posts somewhere:
If that word "parousia," means second coming then I have never suggested that the Earth is destroyed at that time.

The world will be destroyed, just after the second resurrection of damnation which occurs AFTER the millennium! I have said this using the Bible, many times!
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That word 'parousia' means presence or coming. It is used 24 times in the NT. One of those times is in Matthew 24:3.

It is what occurs immediately after the great tribulation even tho the Greek word for 'coming' isn't parousia in Matthew 24:30, it is erchomai. I can't help you much with the Greek lanquage, but there are sites that can explain this for you if you want.

You said: If that word "parousia," means second coming then I have never suggested that the Earth is destroyed at that time******************

Well, actually you did, but maybe you just don't realize you did.

Because you said:The world will be destroyed, just after the second resurrection of damnation which occurs AFTER the millennium! I have said this using the Bible, many times!*********************

Yes, there is a resurrection after the 1000 year reign with Christ, you are SOOOOO correct and we know so because Rev 20:4 says:
5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.)
When a sentence says "until the 1000 years has ended" it would mean that the 1000 year thing is OVER, can you follow this? That very same sentence says that the rest of the dead did not come to LIFE until AFTER the 1000 years. This is kind of basic English here, we don't have to read about weddings, we don't have to read about suppers, we don't have to take a sojurn thru Daniel's prophetic works, we just have to read the plain and simple English lanquage that is written there. THE REST OF THE DEAD DID NOT COME TO LIFE UNTIL THE THOUSAND YEARS WERE ENDED. Have you got the concept PC?

Now this time after the 1000 years would be AFTER the millennium. The rest of the dead ould not come to LIFE until after the MILLENNIUM. Now you said the world would be destroyed AFTER the MILLENNIUM.
Now could you take a wee squint at this verse that you may have somehow missed in our conversation.
1 Thess 4
15According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.
So you see you have the world being destroyed before Jesus gets here and those poor folks still alive at His coming must just vaporize in the vast nothingness of space.

Just for the record, I'll point out that the Greek word that was used here for coming was PAROUSIA, meaning presense or coming. Think lots on the meaning of the word 'presense.'

Just some food for thought on what the phrase 'coming of the son of man' means.
Matthew 16
28I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.

Mark 9
1And he said to them, "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power."

Note how kingdom of God and 'coming of the son of man' are used interchangably. WOW, eh!!!!!!!!

Enjoy,

Justme

 

[Justme]

Hi Vin,

Just a quick question..

The ALL these things would necessarily include events prior to the destruction of the temple because that is what started the whole conversation.
Mark 13:4 and Luke 21:7 have to be considered in this.
If the generation back then saw some of the things it necessarily meant they all happened. Besides there is always Matthew 10:23, and Colossians 1:23, John 21:19-23 and actually the list is endless.

The second coming of Christ for all who read the bible is a future event, that also has to be considered.

My question...how do you reconcile the destruction of the temple? Remember a dual fullfillmrent is never going to fly. Building a new temple just to meet with man's wishful thinking is just plain regretful or maybe even stupid.
Justme

 

[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[Justme]

Hi Vin,

I never dealt with your suggestions about Jonah and the sign.
That sign was relating to the fact that Jesus would be in the tomb for three days as Jonah was in the whale for three days.

This was spoken of to that wicked generation. This was spoken of as a miraculous sign.
This was the wicked generation that would suffer the wrath of God.

Matthew 23 tells it all ending with:
36I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.


The bible contradicts you a bit here in Luke 11.

30For as Jonah was a sign to the Ninevites, so also will the Son of Man be to this generation. That is the miraculous sign given.

Later in the Olivet Discourse we see that the sign is in the celestial display.
30"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn.

From your post:
The Gospel being preached in all the earth-

I take that to mean -it keeps going out
Not that once it happens -poof the rapture!
*****************************

You quoted this from the Olivet:
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

It doesn't say the end of what, but it specifically states that some END will come and this gospel shall be preached in all the world.
The Greek word for world here is oikoumene and this word can mean the entire planet or it could mean:
1) the inhabited earth

a) the portion of the earth inhabited by the Greeks, in distinction from the lands of the barbarians

b) the Roman empire, all the subjects of the empire

Col 1
23if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

Naturally you can believe this verse any way you want, but there is little doubt that it says HAS BEEN PROCLAIMED>>>

That puts the end sometime near the generation of Paul. That would agree with this:
26Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the END OF THE AGES to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.

You made mention of not reading the scripture as written and I would suggest that i is me doing that and some others here who do not.

For instance concerning Colossians 1:23 you say:
I believe it means that the gospel shall keep being preached and then shall the end come.
The words are HAS BEEN proclaimed and Paul said that 2000 years ago. No, I am not dreaming this up, I just read what is written there.

You wrote:
When does Rev. 11 show that Jesus has His kingdom?

the kingdoms of this world are become His

Now tie this to your part you noticed -that is when the Son of man comes.
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Rev 11
"The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ,

You asked when this happens and the answer is here:
8The nations were angry; and your wrath has come.
The time has come for judging the dead,
The time of judgment, the time of the great tribulation.

I have no problem with that, it fits in perfectly with my understanding.

You wrote:
I want to make sure we realize that what you wrote as to they would see the Son of man coming in His kingdom -
later came the time when Jesus told Pilate that His kingdom is not from hence -
Thus that the disciples saw was a glimpse of what is to take place when His kingdom does really come!
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Great can you explain to me what happened there? Maybe you do not consider that the transfiguration is what is being talked about in Matthew 16:28?

These men were told that they would see the son of man coming in His kingdom....
hey, what can I tell you, what they saw is what you get. Either that or Jesus lies. Yes, there was a vision, but I assume that was the two chaps that appeared from old!!! What they saw was the coming of the son of man in His kingdom: what they saw was the kingdom of God...what does that tell you?

I can tell you what it doesn't tell you. It doesn't tell you that some massive change takes place on physical planet earth. I can tell you that it doesn't mean that there will never be another physical death of mankind on earth and I can tell you it doesn't mean that there will never be another tear in any eye on planet earth.

This took place 6 or 8 days after Jesus made this statement and yes it was only shown to those few. Another lesson to be learned from these verses is that these few will be the only people in the history of mankind who will ever see the kingdom of God or the coming of the son of man in His kingdom while ALIVE. Did you ever think of that while reading these verses? It would follow that everyone else who sees God's kingdom will be dead.

You wrote:
You can't tell us contradictory stuff and that is what several of you seem to be doing. Can't we agree that it should all make biblical sense and one verse -no matter how long ago written should lock right wth another prophets words centuries later?
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This is important. However, it is conversely true that what is said in the OT cannot disagree with the NT. In my opinion it is much easier toidecipher the new testament that to try an unravel prophecies from the OT.

Gotta run, football is on...

Justme

 

[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[rebaa]

Is Israel a piece of earth or a peoples?

 

[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[rebaa]

WHOA,

Till Jesus is the One winning on this planet -I would think that His kingdom has yet to come.

Vin are you Saying Jesus is a looser?


God is the God of this earth.


What is the scriptural discription of HIS kingdom?


Is Jesus your King? Does He reign in your life?

 

[rebaa]

vin,

if the land was given for ever why dont she have it? Could it be there was conditions?

 

[Justme]

Hi Vin,

When you list a series of verses, I imagine you feel they are proving your point and disproving mine. However, I have considered the verses you have listed and they fit with my understanding. We read the same text, but we see it from totally different points of view. That's what makes the bible such an incredible book. To totally understand the meaning of the entire bible may not even be possible in a natural lifetime. Totally amazing book.

Anyway!!!!

Here is one of the verses:
28I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.

This tells us what they will SEE. It says nothing here about eathquakes , or wars or trumpets or anything other than what they will SEE. What will they SEE?
Well, they will SEE the son of man coming in His kingdom. This verse tells us they will be ALIVE when they SEE it. This leaves the hint that others may well be DEAD when they SEE this.

Now learn from parallel verses which is Mark 9
1And he said to them, "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power."

Hey, it changed to the kingdom of God.....where is that?
36Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place."

So now does it clear up why only hese few men would SEE the kingdom of God while living and that physical things on earth would maybe not change all that much after the coming of the son of man.

Remember the verse DOES say they will SEE the coming of the son of man. Whether it is an actual physical sight or a vision is irrelevent, it is what they SAW.


You wrote:
No one left the planet to meet Jesus -it doesn't even say that Jesus was in the air.
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We always speak of Heaven being up and Hell being down, but really the kingdom of God is actually within you. That is the spiritualness of the whole thing.

You wrote:

Till Jesus is the One winning on this planet -I would think that His kingdom has yet to come.

So you figure God just can't quite cut it, can't quite make the grade. Too bad. He can design and construct a universe, but He just can't convince man to do what He wants...My guess is that planet earth is either progressing as this God wants it or there is no God.

You are waiting for the kingdom of God,which is not of this world, to come to this world.....can if you want. Nothing I have ever read would lead me to think that it ever will. Remember the phrase kingdom of God and the phrase kingdom of Heaven are used interchangably too. The Kingdom of God is in Heaven and nowhere that I know of in the bible says that will ever change.

Now learn from parallel verses which is Mark 9
1And he said to them, "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power."

Hey, it changed to the kingdom of God.....where is that?
36Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place."

So now does it clear up why only these few men would SEE the kingdom of God while living and that physical things on earth would maybe not change all that much after the coming of the son of man.

Remember the verse DOES say they will SEE the coming of the son of man. Whether it is an actual physical sight or a vision is irrelevent, it is what they SAW.

You wrote:
all the tribes of the earth
they shall see the Son of man coming
with power and great glory
-you think these people are dead?
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Well, of course they are. Read the Olivet again very careful paying attention to who are the 'you' and the 'they'. Guess who sees the coming on the clouds? It is they...the objects of God's wrath, those put to death in the great tribulation.

The way Luke explains it in his writing is the most obvious, but all three say the same.

You wrote:
We have to dwell on this -just what people is God destroying here?
the wicked
by His wrath
same as in the days of Noah
the wicked get it
during the trib -what people would be the most wicked?
beast, false prophet
those that took the mark, etc.
those of idols

How could not the wrath of God be for them?
Thus somebody's else has their time of wrath (trib time) first.
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Matthew 23 tells you all about who it is.

Justme

 

[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[Justme]

Hi Vin,

Would I be correct in assuming that you take your biblical understanding directly from a study course prepared by some specific religious group?

The reason I ask is because often you provide only part of a biblical thought and misconstrue the meaning and the biblical explanation is right there in the sentence next to it. It appears to me you read a study guide and not the bible.

Here:
Just as shown in Rev. 22:11
he that is unjust
let him be unjust still
=longsuffering time is up!
Jesus is coming back
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You quoted only part of a verse and the rest of the verse shows the true meaning.

11Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy."

Yes, Jesus is coming back as this part of the vision unfolds, but where is verse 11 playing out?

The vile cannot continue to be vile where Jesus is and where by the way, is Jesus? He is in the new Holy City where there is no night because God is the light.
Where are these vile, the prostitutes and the dogs? They are the same place that the physically living 'right' who choose to do right still are....outside of the Holy city, the new Jerusalem, the Jerusalem that Jesus rules from forever and ever. Outside are these living creatures..plus the righteous who still physically live.
15Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

That holy city, 1600 mile cube, came down from sky, it is that city where there is no light because God is the light, it is in that city where there is no temple because God is the temple and outside are the dogs.

WHERE IS OUTSIDE?

Justme

 

[rebaa]

Vin,

What makes you think HE doesn't have rule over Israel , and the whole earth? Doesn't HIS being ,the GOD of the earth, say to you HE does rule?

God did not break HIS promise to Abe the promise was conditional and 'Abe's kids' messed it up.

Josh 21:43-45
43 And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.
45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.
KJV