Abomination of desolation

Rev 20:7. And when the THOUSAND YEARS ARE EXPIRED, Satan shall be loosed out of
his prison, 8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the
earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the
sand of the sea. 9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the
camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and FIRE came down from God out of
heaven, and DEVOURED THEM.
------------------------------

Justme,

Which Bible version speaks of resurrected wicked in Revelation 20:7-9

I can see fire from heaven-- YES... fire from heaven AND RESURRECTION OF THE WICKED mean two different things in English.

Where in Revelation 20:7-9 can we insert resurrection of the dead to follow Satan?

How can we modify the Bible to suit our terms?

Hi Prophecy Countdown,

You ask where is Daniel?

Click to expand...

I think the answer to that question will become obvious at the second advent when Daniel is raised as a part of the righteous dead and “we who are alive will be caught up with them together.”

Click to expand...

Good, it's nice to see you've changed your story here.

So now you agree that there is a resurrection at the time of the coming of the son of man (parousia) or more biblically correct, at the time of the great tribulation.

Now. if Daniel is in that resurrection he can NOT be in the first resurrection. That first resurrection is over BEFORE the rest of the dead are raised.

Now , any raising of those who are alive at the coming WILL NOT precede those who are asleep....DANIEL.

Let's say the coming of the son of man is the year 2099. At the time of the great tribulation that is IMMEDIATELY before the coming, Daniel will be raised. However, the 1000 year reign with Jesus HAS TO BE OVER, Satan is back in the pit and Jesus comes on the clouds.

BUT the key is the 1000 year reign is over. If that 1000 year reign is with Christ as the bible says, Jesus is now in Heaven so that particular resurrection, the first resurrection, only takes place in Heaven. The millieum reign does not take place after the coming and it can not take place on earth.

Can you see the biblical sequence of events yet? Whether fire comes down from heaven to kill off some wicked in the year 2098 really doesn't matter does it? The wicked are dealt with, so be it. Whether there is a white horse heading for Armaggedon changes nothing, Rev 20 and 1 Thess 4 lay out the sequence of events. I used the year 2099, but you can use any year you want, the sequence has to remain the same.

If not, why not?

Justme

Hi Atkin,

At one point in this thread PC was trying to put forth the argument that many were resurrected to eternal life at the time of the crucifixion. I had to make sure we weren't dealing with Daniel being in that situation.

So by asking about where Daniel is it leaves only one answer for PC and that is that Daniel sleeps in the dust awaiting the resurrection at the time of the great tribulation. Prior to this PC was wanting ALL the righteous to be in the 'first' resurrection. Daniel doesn't fit the 'first' resurrection.

You wrote:

The resurrection in Daniel 12:2 has not

taken place so Daniel etc ARE not resurrected.
*************************

Good, and it is at the time of the great tribulation which is immediately before the coming, so now using a possible date of 2099 for the coming of the son of man, where does that put the 1000 year reign with Christ? It has to be happening now and where is Christ NOW?

As I told PC the fire from Heaven or a white horse going to Armaggedon really doesn't change anything. The wicked will be dealt with as He chooses, but biblically it is at the time of the great tribulation somewhere and the 1000 year reign with Christ is over before the REST of the DEAD are raised. Be it the wicked or Daniel it is all the same.

Justme

Hi Atkin,

Where in Revelation 20:7-9 can we insert resurrection of the dead to follow Satan?

Click to expand...

I missed a bit from your posts.We can't say that from those verses, but down a bit .....
Rev 20
3He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

THEN:
10And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The next thing discussed is the gwhite throne judgement.

I assume it is meant that satan is thrown in the lake before the judgment, but that is only going by the layout in the chaper.

Justme

Justme said:

Hi Atkin,

At one point in this thread PC was trying to put forth the argument that many were resurrected to eternal life at the time of the crucifixion. I had to make sure we weren't dealing with Daniel being in that situation.

So by asking about where Daniel is it leaves only one answer for PC and that is that Daniel sleeps in the dust awaiting the resurrection at the time of the great tribulation. Prior to this PC was wanting ALL the righteous to be in the 'first' resurrection. Daniel doesn't fit the 'first' resurrection.

You wrote:

The resurrection in Daniel 12:2 has not

taken place so Daniel etc ARE not resurrected.
*************************

Good, and it is at the time of the great tribulation which is immediately before the coming, so now using a possible date of 2099 for the coming of the son of man, where does that put the 1000 year reign with Christ? It has to be happening now and where is Christ NOW?

As I told PC the fire from Heaven or a white horse going to Armaggedon really doesn't change anything. The wicked will be dealt with as He chooses, but biblically it is at the time of the great tribulation somewhere and the 1000 year reign with Christ is over before the REST of the DEAD are raised. Be it the wicked or Daniel it is all the same.

Justme

Click to expand...

Those working along the lines of PC DO NOT say that the 1000 years has begun yet, no,.... it is yet to begin from their interpretation.

The 1000 year reign DOES NOT BEGIN UNTIL AFTER 1 Thess 4: and Rev 19:19-21 as they say.

From their timetable , CHRIST returns BEFORE the 1000 year reign begins.

Their timetable is

1- Christ returns for the believers in 1 Thess 4:16-17 and soon after destroys the Beast
and followers in Revelation 19:19-21.

2- Then Christ seals Satan in the Pit at the beginning of the 1000 years Revelation 20:1-3

3- John saw those who resurrected in Matthew 27:52-53 as starting the 1000 year reign with Christ

*******************Problem
If those beheaded resurrected over 1900 years ago, why is John seeing then coming to life at the beginning of the 1000 years WHICH BEGINS in the future??
********

If they resurrected in Revelation 20:4 over 1900 years ago, they are now seen as starting the 1000 years reign in the future, after Christ returns in the future...

Anyway, from that timetable, Daniel etc resurrects when Christ returns AND DANIEL

ETC ALSO start life in the newly begun 1000 year reign of Christ, which STARTS IN THE FUTURE.

Justme said:

Hi Atkin,



I missed a bit from your posts.We can't say that from those verses, but down a bit .....
Rev 20
3He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

THEN:
10And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The next thing discussed is the gwhite throne judgement.

I assume it is meant that satan is thrown in the lake before the judgment, but that is only going by the layout in the chaper.

Justme

Click to expand...

Hi Justme,

I was asking about the what PC assumed concerning dead people resurrected in GOg and Magog in Revelation 20:8.

Revelation 20:8-9 states
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the
earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom
is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the
saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven,
and devoured them

My question concerns the conclusion that PC jumped to from these verses.

PC assumes that Revelation 20:8-9 speaks of the the PEOPLE IN THE NATIONS OF THE EARTH ***GOG AND MAGOG*** AS BEING THOSE WHO JUST RESURRECTED FROM THE DEAD... NO WAY any rational person can make such a conclusion

My question is where does it state in Rev 20:7-9 , that the people who followed Satan

in Gog and Magog were ALL FRESHLY RESURRECTED PEOPLE?

NOWHERE IN REVELATION 20:6-9 DOES IT say the rest of the dead who came to life after the 1000 years , MADE UP THE PEOPLE in the nations GOG AND MAGOG WHO followed Satan in Revelation 20:7-8. These nations are not DESCRIBED AS POPULATED BY FRESHLY RESURRECTED PEOPLE.

That is exceedingly false.

Justme said:

Hi Prophecy Countdown,

Good, it's nice to see you've changed your story here.

So now you agree that there is a resurrection at the time of the coming of the son of man (parousia) or more biblically correct, at the time of the great tribulation.

Now. if Daniel is in that resurrection he can NOT be in the first resurrection. That first resurrection is over BEFORE the rest of the dead are raised.

Now , any raising of those who are alive at the coming WILL NOT precede those who are asleep....DANIEL.

Let's say the coming of the son of man is the year 2099. At the time of the great tribulation that is IMMEDIATELY before the coming, Daniel will be raised.

Justme

Click to expand...

The first resurrection is divided into TWO PARTS according to what that poster said

The first part of the FIRST RESURRECTION TOOK PLACE over 1900 years ago.. in Matthew 27:52-53

Then over 1900 years later, ANOTHER RESURRECTION TAKES PLACE IN 1 THESSALONIANS 4:16. WE HAVE THIS later future first RESURRECTION AT THE SECOND ADVENT, WHEN CHRIST RETURNS THE DEAD IN CHRIST SHALL RISE FIRST.. that is part of the future FIRST RESURRECTION OF THE RIGHTEOUS DEAD IN CHRIST 1 THESS 4:16.

1 THESSALONIANS 4:16

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive
and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not precede them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice
of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise
first:

Paul WAS SPEAKING OF THE FUTURE---- the tense used is THE DEAD IN CHRIST WILL RISE FIRST.............WILL RISE AFTER OVER 1900 YEARS from the first century

but the ones in Matthew 27:52-53 had risen already.

So what I have described above in 1 Thess 4:16 is the future part of the 1ST RESURRECTION AS DESCRIBED IN THE TIME OF GREAT TRIBULATION of DANIEL 12:1-3 which takes place IN THE FUTURE and is the same event DESCRIBED IN 1 THESS 4:15-17 Christ returns in 1 Thessalonians 4:16 at the same time AS prophesised in DANIEL 12:1-3 and we have a massive resurrection as described in 1 THESSALONIANS 4:16

***and the dead in Christ shall rise first: ***

--2 1000 years later, THEN WE HAVE A THIRD RESURRECTION AT THE END OF THE 1000 YEARS

*********third RESURRECTION

REVELATION 20:5 THE REST OF THE DEAD DID NOT COME TO LIFE UNTIL after the 1000 years
**************

?? JUDGEMENT 4TH RESURRECTION REVELATION 20:11-13
after Fire devoured the resurrected dead who followed Satan in Gog and Magog??

Hi Atkin,

I'm getting lost in the posts here.

Who do you see as the REST of the DEAD?

Do you consider Daniel to be included in the REST of the DEAD?

Yes, I would say Paul is speaking future in 1 Thess 4: 14-18.

I refer to the biblical 'first' resurrection which involves the people described in Rev 20:4 and 6.

The resurrection that is 'at the time of' the great tribulation (Daniel 12:1-4) is the same as the white throne resurrection as I see it. This is the REST of the DEAD in my opinion. Daniel would be part of the REST of the DEAD and he would rise 'at the time of ' the great tribulation and the parousia.

It still follows that the biblical 'first' resurrection of Rev 20 has to be over when the resurrection of Daniel occurs.

As far as these people from Matthew 27 this can not be included in any eternal resurrection of any kind because:

35But those who are considered worthy of taking part in that age and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God's children, since they are children of the resurrection.

The key there is that they can no longer die and they physically disappeared again.

Justme

Justme said:

Hi Atkin,

I'm getting lost in the posts here.

Who do you see as the REST of the DEAD?

Do you consider Daniel to be included in the REST of the DEAD?

Yes, I would say Paul is speaking future in 1 Thess 4: 14-18.

I refer to the biblical 'first' resurrection which involves the people described in Rev 20:4 and 6.

The resurrection that is 'at the time of' the great tribulation (Daniel 12:1-4) is the same as the white throne resurrection as I see it. This is the REST of the DEAD in my opinion. Daniel would be part of the REST of the DEAD and he would rise 'at the time of ' the great tribulation and the parousia.

It still follows that the biblical 'first' resurrection of Rev 20 has to be over when the resurrection of Daniel occurs.

As far as these people from Matthew 27 this can not be included in any eternal resurrection of any kind because:

35But those who are considered worthy of taking part in that age and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God's children, since they are children of the resurrection.

The key there is that they can no longer die and they physically disappeared again.

Justme

Click to expand...

I must ask why this intense focus on Daniel. DANIEL is assured of salvation, let the dead bury the dead and resurrect when God decides.
We need to focus on OUR OWN SALVATION, not to worry about when Daniel wakes up..... which I think should be in the future second advent
when the great tribulation takes place.

36and they can no longer die; It does not mean they live carnal flesh visible lives for over 1900 CONTINOUS YEARS. God never intended those who resurrected to be visible for over 1900 years.

This takes place AFTER THE SECOND ADVENT, when they become visible

Justme quote 35But those who are considered worthy of taking part in that age and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, .... THIS APPLIES AFTER THE SECOND ADVENT

Who do I see as the rest of the dead in Revelation 20:5?
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

Revelation 20:5 Speaks of the rest of the dead who resurrect after the 1000 years. This could include people (possibly unbelievers) who died during the 1000 years ( Some claim people would never die.. during 1000 years) and those who did not resurrect when Christ returned in Daniel 12:2 1 Thess 4:16, that is at the start of the 1000 years (which is in the future as is said)

Dissapearing physically has no bearing as far as the second death is concerned. Christ also left Earth (disappeared) but Christ is not dead.
The Biblical first resurrection referred to in Revelation 20:4 and 6 took place (initial part at least , over 1900 years ago . THOSE SAINTS never died , again human death has no power since Christ defeated death
and those Saints in Matthew 27:52 ARE not dead as far as God is concerned. Those saints WILL NOT BE DEVOURED BY THE SECOND DEATH in Revelation 20:15 hence they overcame death, WHETHER THEY ARE INVISIBLE IS IRRELEVANT BECAUSE CHRIST IS ALSO INVISIBLE at this time.

Who are we to determine who actually resurrected in Matthew 27:52?

Was Daniel part of that resurrection in Matthew 27:52? We cannot tell but we could assume that if not then Daniel resurrects (if not the 1st century) then DANIEL resurrects in the near future as in 1 Thess 4:16.. The DEAD IN CHRIST shall arise first etc....

That (1 Thess 4:16) takes place AT THE BEGINNING of the 1000 years, which is not started yet.
Then after the 1000 years, those who happen to have died during the 1000 years or DID NOT RESURRECT BEFORE THE 1000 years, will resurrect ( believers and non believers alike ) after the 1000 years.

I do not think we should be trying to identify who will resurrect when, since we are not in the position to NAME them specifically..........ALL WE CAN DO IS TO identify when resurrections take place and God does the rest in determining who actually resurrects.

Hi Atkin,

You wrote:

This takes place AFTER THE SECOND ADVENT, when they become visible
*******************
What verses would you use here concerning those you say are resurrected in Matt 27?

These people obviously lived a mortal life on earth and had physically died. Then they came up out of thegraves and physically lived again. Next they physically disappeared or died one more time and now you say they will be made visible again soon.

These particular people may be some special case so just to make it simple tell me which verse you use to conclude that the dead people become visible at the second coming.

Justme

Hi Atkin,

No, here we go again.
From your post:
That (1 Thess 4:16) takes place AT THE BEGINNING of the 1000 years, which is not started yet.
Then after the 1000 years, those who happen to have died during the 1000 years or DID NOT RESURRECT BEFORE THE 1000 years, will resurrect
**************
1 Thess 4 is at the END of the 1000 year reign with Christ not at the beginning. That is what I have been pointing out from the bible. There would be death on earth during the 1000 year reign yes.

If you consider that the parousia is soon then the 1000 year reign with Christ is taking place in Heaven now.

To further clarify this. If you believe that the events of 1 Thess 4 are thousands of years away then biblically the 1000 year reign need not have started yet.

I don't know any verses that say that those of the 'first' resurrection will ever leave the heavenly state and become visible. If you do fine, point them out to me.



Justme

Justme said:

Hi Atkin,

No, here we go again.
From your post:
That (1 Thess 4:16) takes place AT THE BEGINNING of the 1000 years, which is not started yet.
Then after the 1000 years, those who happen to have died during the 1000 years or DID NOT RESURRECT BEFORE THE 1000 years, will resurrect
**************
1 Thess 4 is at the END of the 1000 year reign with Christ not at the beginning. That is what I have been pointing out from the bible. There would be death on earth during the 1000 year reign yes.

If you consider that the parousia is soon then the 1000 year reign with Christ is taking place in Heaven now.

To further clarify this. If you believe that the events of 1 Thess 4 are thousands of years away then biblically the 1000 year reign need not have started yet.

I don't know any verses that say that those of the 'first' resurrection will ever leave the heavenly state and become visible. If you do fine, point them out to me.



Justme

Click to expand...

Let us take this in the right sequence. You did not read my post properly because I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT 1 Thess 4 is THOUSANDS OF YEARS AWAY.....

1 THESS 4 TAKES PLACE AT THE SECOND ADVENT..... 2099, 2100 , 2200.....whenever that takes place.

Regarding the saints, Christ becoming visible after his second advent teaches me that the Saints will be visible

If you need a verse HERE IS THE VISIBLE CHRIST IN HIS SECOND ADVENT
Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.
3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.
5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

CHRIST IS VISIBLE WHEN HE RETURNS.... hence the saints will be visible.

I AM NOT AWARE OF ANY CHRISTIAN who rejects the fact that Christ will be visible after his second advent.

Hi Atkin,

You wrote:
Regarding the saints, Christ becoming visible after his second advent teaches me that the Saints will be visible
**************
I remember a verse from one of John's letters you could maybe use here, but I honestly saw nothing in the quotes from Isaiah.

Here are some verses which don't fit so good.

Acts 10

40 " God raised Him up on the third day and granted that He become visible,

The second coming is the beginning of eternal life, here is what the bible says about 'eternal.'

2 Cor 4
So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.

Jesus came to earth once after His ascension to talk to Paul and here is how He looked:

Acts 9
7 The men who traveled with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one.

You wrote:
I AM NOT AWARE OF ANY CHRISTIAN who rejects the fact that Christ will be visible after his second advent.
*****************
Well, there are millions and millions of Christians who believe in a spiritual heavenly afterlife.
Here is bit from an article written by a Muslim about the Christian belief..

Ali Al-Timimi

What about belief in the Last Day, do the Christians believe in the Last Day? No. Why don’t they believe in the Last Day? Because they believe the resurrection will be the resurrection only of the spirits. They don’t believe that this body, this flesh, these bones, and flesh, and blood, and so forth will actually be in Paradise. They think only your soul will be in Paradise.
*****************
Justme

Justme said:

Hi Atkin,

You wrote:
Regarding the saints, Christ becoming visible after his second advent teaches me that the Saints will be visible
**************
I remember a verse from one of John's letters you could maybe use here, but I honestly saw nothing in the quotes from Isaiah.

Here are some verses which don't fit so good.

Acts 10

40 " God raised Him up on the third day and granted that He become visible,

The second coming is the beginning of eternal life, here is what the bible says about 'eternal.'

2 Cor 4
So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.

Jesus came to earth once after His ascension to talk to Paul and here is how He looked:

Acts 9
7 The men who traveled with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one.

You wrote:
I AM NOT AWARE OF ANY CHRISTIAN who rejects the fact that Christ will be visible after his second advent.
*****************
Well, there are millions and millions of Christians who believe in a spiritual heavenly afterlife.
Here is bit from an article written by a Muslim about the Christian belief..

Ali Al-Timimi

What about belief in the Last Day, do the Christians believe in the Last Day? No. Why don’t they believe in the Last Day? Because they believe the resurrection will be the resurrection only of the spirits. They don’t believe that this body, this flesh, these bones, and flesh, and blood, and so forth will actually be in Paradise. They think only your soul will be in Paradise.
*****************
Justme

Click to expand...

Adam and Eve were not created invisible.... their minds simply failed a test and led to death. Earth is a visible Planet and God states clearly that He created Earth for PERMANENT residence, His footstool but yet humans in their frantic attempts to avoid
responsibilty will readily believe some disappearnce into the spiritual world.

Earth is a very tangible physical Planet and the human errors are due to self imposed human inorance, not necessarily due to flesh and bones. Flesh is NOT SINFUL.. the corruption of human minds leads to human weaknesses and errors in flesh.

Adam was created in flesh and bone.. and He did not live in sin immediately.. and humans will exist in that form in eternity ONLY difference being elimination of human ignorance.

We ARE TO have faith NOW IN THE INVISIBLE to enable us possess the wisdom required for that eternal life... it does not mean WE WILL turn into AIR..... amusing indeed.

Why would God create Earth, only to vaporise humans into some spirit world and leave the Planet vacant? Going against His fundamental purpose of creation?

You must realise that Humans are blinded by ignorance and it does not take much (God must be amused at our desire to run away from Earth) to clean up drugs, random conflicts, poverty, disease etc... clean cities and other purities which we attribute to SOME HEAVEN beyond are all possible on Earth.

Do not be dissapointed when God tells humans to roll up sleeves and prepare to reset Earth back to purity, very easy once Christ gives the necessary directions and sits in his Ruler's office on Earth.

NOTE IN Rev 21:24.. THE KINGS OF EARTH.... NOT KINGS OF MARS OR KINGS OF HEAVEN

REVELATION 21: 24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night
there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.

GOD COMES DOWN TO EARTH.... NOT THE OTHER WAY ROUND.. why would God leave Earth vacant????

REVELATION 22: 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of
God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and
God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

AMUSING TO SEE HUMANS wishing to be vaporised when humans were not created as airy spirits.... we will behave like angels ... WE WILL NOT be invisible as angels...

Just a note further.... FOCUS ON WHAT CANNOT BE SEEN now for that faith is what gurantees you eternal life.

Do not misunderstand that to mean humans have to be converted into vapor or some insible world WHEN HUMANS were never meant to be invisible.

Just a quick question.... IS IT DUE TO THE desire to exist away from responsibilities that encourages humans to wish for some invisible conversion?

I have come across many who are looking forward to a period of no activity at all.
That is not human and not scriptural and it is escapism.

We live on a perfect Earth..... the problem lies in our minds.. MY PEOPLE DIE FOR LACK OF WISDOM...... not because God created you in flesh.

There is nothing wrong with your flesh..... GENESIS 1:31 AND GOD SAW HIS human CREATION etc WAS VERY GOOD.

Your mind will be purified by knowledge and wisdom THUS ENABLING YOU TO CONTROL your flesh .

All in your mind and intellect.

Genesis 8:21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I
will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of
man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing
living, as I have done.

EVERLASTING???
Genesi 9:12 And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me
and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:
13 I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant
between me and the earth.
16 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may
remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all
flesh that is upon the earth.
17 And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have
established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth

I DO NOT wish to be inactive as air.

Hi Atkin,

I'm not sure where you get this 'air' thing from, I would think they are talking about a spiritual body form. Look up how people describe near death experiences. Maybe that would give you an idea of the other interpretation.

As far as some other points in your post, the bible says the unseen is eternal, what can I tell you. It is true that 'faith' is unseen, but I hardly think God would feel it necessary to tell us that. Who doesn't already know that.

Mark 12:25
When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

You have read about angels in heaven, but have you ever seen any. This is more ammunition for the spiritual camp.

Justme

Justme said:

Hi Atkin,

I'm not sure where you get this 'air' thing from, I would think they are talking about a spiritual body form. Look up how people describe near death experiences. Maybe that would give you an idea of the other interpretation.

As far as some other points in your post, the bible says the unseen is eternal, what can I tell you. It is true that 'faith' is unseen, but I hardly think God would feel it necessary to tell us that. Who doesn't already know that.

Mark 12:25
When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

You have read about angels in heaven, but have you ever seen any. This is more ammunition for the spiritual camp.

Justme

Click to expand...

Ah,

This is interesting. A spiritual body..... BUT IS THE PLANET EARTH spiritual or tangible?

Again, this spiritual body eats food. It can be touched and it is not made up of some form of vaccum.

It will work, it will jog, it will enjoy fresh air, it will still use a computer.

No, that spiritual body has been misunderstood. It is a spiritual mind for God help humans lift the barriers blocking wisdom and set people free.

they will be like the angels in heaven. .. Yes, they will not use cocaine
they will not murder
they will not be jealous of one another
they will not smoke
they will not be lazy
they will not be carnal

THEY WILL BE IN BEHAVIOUR LIKE ANGELS IN HEAVEN ... but WOULD BE HUMANS, LIKE ANGELS BUT STILL HUMAN, AS OPPOSED TO ANGELS

WE WILL BE INTELLIGENT AS ANGELS, WE WILL NOT BE CONVERTED INTO ANGELIC CREATIONS

humans are different in creation from angels, although we will be of mind and behavior as angels.

Even angels eat food , even angels can be seen and touched.

Genesis 18:1 And GOD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the
tent door in the heat of the day;
2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he
saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the
ground,
3 And said, My LORD, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I
pray thee, from thy servant:
4 Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest
yourselves under the tree:
5 And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye
shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as
thou hast said.
6 And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly
three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth.
7 And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetcht a calf tender and good, and gave it
unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it.
8 And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it
before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.

Justme said:

Hi Atkin,

I'm not sure where you get this 'air' thing from, I would think they are talking about a spiritual body form. Look up how people describe near death experiences. Maybe that would give you an idea of the other interpretation.

As far as some other points in your post, the bible says the unseen is eternal, what can I tell you. It is true that 'faith' is unseen, but I hardly think God would feel it necessary to tell us that. Who doesn't already know that.

Mark 12:25
When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

You have read about angels in heaven, but have you ever seen any. This is more ammunition for the spiritual camp.

Justme

Click to expand...

JESUS CHRIST OF NAZARETH DIED AND RESURRECTED

APPEARED OUT OF NOWHERE

WAS TOUCHED, WAS SOLID AND ATE FOOD
I MEAN EVEN THE DEAD RESURRECT AND EAT FOOD

WHY WHY WHY do you think God gave us this wonderful lesson

EVEN THE RESURRECTED DEAD, WILL EAT food. What more those alive ?

LUKE 24:36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith
unto them, Peace be unto you.
37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a
spirit.
38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in
your hearts?
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a
spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them,
Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

Hi Atkin,

I am well aware of all these verses. At the time these things took place Jesus was manifested as man, I have no doubt about that. Now how do you deal with the verses that says at other times Jesus was NOT visible and how do you deal with a physical body floating on clouds, how do you deal with a physical bodied man going to a invisible place called Heaven and remaining unnoticed there by mortal man for 2000 years? I think there are more questions than answers from a strickly biblical point of view.

You wrote:

No, that spiritual body has been misunderstood. It is a spiritual mind for God help humans lift the barriers blocking wisdom and set people free.

I can show you verses that talk about the spiritual body, but I don't know where the 'mind' ones are. Could you point them out?

You wrote:
THEY WILL BE IN BEHAVIOUR LIKE ANGELS IN HEAVEN ... but WOULD BE HUMANS, LIKE ANGELS BUT STILL HUMAN, AS OPPOSED TO ANGELS
*********************
It says that somewhere?

What is the most important thing angels are concerning this discussion? They are invisible to mortal man.

You wrote:
Just a quick question.... IS IT DUE TO THE desire to exist away from responsibilities that encourages humans to wish for some invisible conversion?

Humans wishes would have nothing to do with it. If this life for us turns to total darkness and complete lack of conciousness at the time of our death and forever remains that way, that is just simply the way it is. Whether people believe there is something after physical death as you and I do, is irrelivent, if there isn't there isn't.

Justme

Justme said:

Hi Prophecy Countdown,





Good, it's nice to see you've changed your story here.

So now you agree that there is a resurrection at the time of the coming of the son of man (parousia) or more biblically correct, at the time of the great tribulation.

Now. if Daniel is in that resurrection he can NOT be in the first resurrection. That first resurrection is over BEFORE the rest of the dead are raised.

Now , any raising of those who are alive at the coming WILL NOT precede those who are asleep....DANIEL.

Let's say the coming of the son of man is the year 2099. At the time of the great tribulation that is IMMEDIATELY before the coming, Daniel will be raised. However, the 1000 year reign with Jesus HAS TO BE OVER, Satan is back in the pit and Jesus comes on the clouds.

BUT the key is the 1000 year reign is over. If that 1000 year reign is with Christ as the bible says, Jesus is now in Heaven so that particular resurrection, the first resurrection, only takes place in Heaven. The millieum reign does not take place after the coming and it can not take place on earth.

Can you see the biblical sequence of events yet? Whether fire comes down from heaven to kill off some wicked in the year 2098 really doesn't matter does it? The wicked are dealt with, so be it. Whether there is a white horse heading for Armaggedon changes nothing, Rev 20 and 1 Thess 4 lay out the sequence of events. I used the year 2099, but you can use any year you want, the sequence has to remain the same.

If not, why not?

Justme

Click to expand...

Greetings Justme.

Earlier you asked me "where is Daniel?"

You then quoted part of my reply.
Quote.
"I think the answer to that question will become obvious at the second advent when Daniel is raised as a part of the righteous dead and "we who are alive will be caught up with them together."

Justme, you then said."Good, it's nice to see you've changed your story here".

"So now you agree that there is a resurrection at the time of the coming of the son of man (parousia) or more biblically correct, at the time of the great tribulation."


My reply.

I’ve not changed my mind. What makes you think such a thing?

Maybe it’s my fault in not explaining myself properly.

If you go back to page 19 and to the end of post 188, you will see that I said this about the resurrection of Daniel.

Quote."Rev 19:9. And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God."

"That’s the blessing, and Daniel will be there, with all the Saints just after the first resurrection at the second coming."

Check me out, Justme on Page 19 post 188.

Justme. quote.
"Now. if Daniel is in that resurrection he can NOT be in the first resurrection. That first resurrection is over BEFORE the rest of the dead are raised."

My reply.
I said Daniel was a part of the first resurrection at the second coming. I did not say that he would be raised at the resurrection of the Christ.

The many Saints that were raised at the resurrection of Christ, are only a small part of the first resurrection of life.

The rest to be raised at the second coming are also a part of the first resurrection of life, even though they are raised at the second coming.

This is one of many reasons as to why I do not agree that everyone is raised at the same time, either for the righteous at the resurrection of life, or the wicked, that pierced Him who will see Him at the second advent then have to be raised at the resurrection of damnation.

When I read John 5: I cannot take it as at that hour everyone good or evil will be raised because some of the righteous Saints have been raised already around 33AD, so how can it mean within one hour as some claim?

When we see the dead and living righteous raised and then a thousand years later the wicked raised then destroyed then the following verse will be fulfilled.

John 5: 28.Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Justme, quote.
"Now, any raising of those who are alive at the coming WILL NOT precede those who are asleep....DANIEL".

My reply.
I agree absolutely.
That is why I have been quoting 1 Thessalonians 4: 15.
The dead Saints that were not raised, like Daniel, for instance and all those who will have died, right up to the second coming will be raised first then we will be caught up with them.

1 Thessalonians 4: 15. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


The above verses are not speaking of the wicked dead being raised before the living righteous. It speaks only of the dead in Christ. The wicked are not mentioned or included in those verses.

Justme, quote.
"Let's say the coming of the son of man is the year 2099. At the time of the great tribulation that is IMMEDIATELY before the coming, Daniel will be raised. However, the 1000 year reign with Jesus HAS TO BE OVER, Satan is back in the pit and Jesus comes on the clouds."

My reply.
Yes, I agree that the great tribulation is immediately before the second coming and Daniel will be at that first first resurrection of life.

The thousand years starts after the resurrection.

The reason I believe this is because we are told that the raised are with Christ for a thousand years, after the wedding supper in Revelation 19: 1 to 9.

They are celebrating with the Lord at the wedding supper.They then head off for Earth and put the rest of the remnant to the sword in Rev 19: 11 to 21. At Armageddon.

I then see Satan bound for the thousand years in Rev 20: 1 to 3, where he will not be released to deceive the nations until the thousand years are finished.
In Rev 20: 5. The wicked are judged by the raised righteous.

In Rev 20:4. Because all the wicked are now dead, they are mentioned as being, and staying that way until the thousand years are finished in Rev 20: 5.

Justme, quote.
BUT the key is the 1000 year reign is over. If that 1000 year reign is with Christ as the bible says, Jesus is now in Heaven so that particular resurrection, the first resurrection, only takes place in Heaven. The millieum reign does not take place after the coming and it can not take place on earth.

My reply.
I can’t quite agree with you when you say,
"the first resurrection, only takes place in Heaven," because Jesus was on Earth when the resurrection of "many of the Saints" occurred and they did go into Jerusalem where the centurion witnessed it in Matt 27:52, 53, 54, 55.