Abiogenesis

[Larniavc]

Never heard of him.

He’s the guy who thinks ID is true because a banana is like a can of coke.

No joke, look him up the Ray Comfort Banana man video on YouTube.

 

[klutedavid]

why?

The Goldilocks Zone refers to the habitable zone around a star where the temperature is just right - not too hot and not too cold - for liquid water to exist on an planet. Liquid water is essential for life as we know it.

The earth also has an ionosphere which stops lethal gamma rays.

The earth has an atmosphere that prevents the planet from cooking.

The earth has an ocean that moderates the terrestrial temperature.

The earth's geology enables the availability of carbon chemistry.

The earth's atmosphere is rich in oxygen.

This goldilocks planet was designated not just for life but an abundance of life, perhaps even millions of species.

 

[VirOptimus]

That's Panspermia. A legit theory.

No its not, a scientific theory requiees actual data and scientific support.

 

[HARK!]

That would be abiogenesis yes.

However, there is no data supporting that idea.

a·bi·o·gen·e·sis
/ˌābīōˈjenəsəs/
noun

• 1. the original evolution of life or living organisms from inorganic or inanimate substances: "to construct any convincing theory of abiogenesis, we must take into account the condition of the Earth about 4 billion years ago"
• 
  
• I guess we can just redefine it as we go, Huh?
  
  
  

 

[SkyWriting]

Someone else claimed it, I might grant it, but I'm not that knowledgeable. The point is that you're stacking the deck, that's dishonest in the same way we could spin statistics to make something seem larger than it is, but we're not talking about things that demonstrably don't replicate and also not in regards to most inorganic things, which RNA/DNA/etc don't fall into.

If we agree that probably, 80% of the cosmos' matter doesn't reproduce but just change form or such, that would allow a simplistic rounding up to 100% and ignoring the 20% that does, making an entirely inaccurate representation to support a specious notion of "design"

But it's infantly closer to 100%. Which I'll defend.

 

[VirOptimus]

The Goldilocks Zone refers to the habitable zone around a star where the temperature is just right - not too hot and not too cold - for liquid water to exist on an planet. Liquid water is essential for life as we know it.

The earth also has an ionosphere which stops lethal gamma rays.

The earth has an atmosphere that prevents the planet from cooking.

The earth has an ocean that moderates the terrestrial temperature.

The earth's geology enables the availability of carbon chemistry.

The earth's atmosphere is rich in oxygen.

This goldilocks planet was designated not just for life but an abundance of life, perhaps even millions of species.

ok, I see. You dont understand probability at all.

 

[VirOptimus]

a·bi·o·gen·e·sis
/ˌābīōˈjenəsəs/
noun

• 1. the original evolution of life or living organisms from inorganic or inanimate substances: "to construct any convincing theory of abiogenesis, we must take into account the condition of the Earth about 4 billion years ago"
• 
  
• I guess we can just redefine it as we go, Huh?
  
  

I dont see how your post in any way showed me wrong.

 

[Larniavc]

So you're saying that if life was shuttled in from another planet; that's abiogenisis?

No. That would be panspermia.

 

[SkyWriting]

No its not, a scientific theory requires actual data and scientific support.

About 6,880 results

Origin Of Life: The Panspermia Theory | Helix Magazine

Directed panspermia
FHC Crick, LE Orgel - Icarus, 1973 - Elsevier
It now seems unlikely that extraterrestrial living organisms could have reached the earth
either as spores driven by the radiation pressure from another star or as living organisms
imbedded in a meteorite. As an alternative to these nineteenth-century mechanisms, we …
Cited by 434 Related articles All 14 versions

Panspermia today
MJ Burchell - International Journal of Astrobiology, 2004 - cambridge.org
Panspermia is the idea that life migrates naturally through space. Although an old idea, there has been much recent theoretical and experimental work developing the idea in recent years. In this review, this progress is considered and placed in context. Ideas concerning …
Cited by 54 Related articles All 6 versions

https://www.google.com/search?q=Panspermia&oq=Panspermia&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

[VirOptimus]

About 6,880 results

Directed panspermia
FHC Crick, LE Orgel - Icarus, 1973 - Elsevier
It now seems unlikely that extraterrestrial living organisms could have reached the earth
either as spores driven by the radiation pressure from another star or as living organisms
imbedded in a meteorite. As an alternative to these nineteenth-century mechanisms, we …
Cited by 434 Related articles All 14 versions

 harvard.edu[/URL]
[SIZE=4][URL='https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/international-journal-of-astrobiology/article/panspermia-today/6BD35AABC8832E4990AAA704B867489F']Panspermia today[/URL][/SIZE]
[URL='https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=U3Np9HgAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=sra']MJ Burchell[/URL] - International Journal of Astrobiology, 2004 - cambridge.org
Panspermia is the idea that life migrates naturally through space. Although an old idea,
there has been much recent theoretical and experimental work developing the idea in recent
years. In this review, this progress is considered and placed in context. Ideas concerning …
[URL='https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=5821960048030980341&as_sdt=5,50&sciodt=0,50&hl=en']Cited by 54[/URL] [URL='https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=related:9RhnT9HBy1AJ:scholar.google.com/&scioq=panspermia&hl=en&as_sdt=0,50']Related articles[/URL] [URL='https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cluster=5821960048030980341&hl=en&as_sdt=0,50']All 6 versions[/URL]
[URL='https://academic.oup.com/mnras/article/348/1/46/1415892'][HTML] oup.com[/URL]
[SIZE=4][URL='https://academic.oup.com/mnras/article-abstract/348/1/46/1415892']A mechanism for interstellar panspermia[/URL][/SIZE]
WM Napier - Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society, 2004 - academic.oup.com
Metre-sized boulders ejected from the Earth by large impacts are destroyed through
collisions and erosion by impacting zodiacal cloud dust particles. The time-scale for such
disintegration in a dense zodiacal cloud may be≲ 104 yr. Once reduced to a critical size, the …
[URL='https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=6692112095138966925&as_sdt=5,50&sciodt=0,50&hl=en']Cited by 100[/URL] [URL='https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=related:jW3ag34o31wJ:scholar.google.com/&scioq=panspermia&hl=en&as_sdt=0,50']Related articles[/URL] [URL='https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cluster=6692112095138966925&hl=en&as_sdt=0,50']All 8 versions[/URL]
[URL='https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Verena_Starke/publication/11588102_Protection_of_Bacterial_Spares_in_Space_A_Contribution_to_the_Discussion_on_Panspermia/links/0912f50901fc18256f000000.pdf'][PDF] researchgate.net[/URL]
[SIZE=4][URL='https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1012746130771']Protection of bacterial spores in space, a contribution to the discussion on panspermia[/URL][/SIZE]
G Horneck, [URL='https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=RtV9zl0AAAAJ&hl=en&oi=sra']P Rettberg[/URL], G Reitz, J Wehner… - Origins of Life and …, 2001 - Springer
Spores of Bacillus subtilis were exposed to space in theBIOPAN facility of the European
Space Agency onboard of the Russian Earth-orbiting FOTON satellite. The spores were
exposed either in dry layers without any protecting agent, or mixed withclay, red sandstone …

Its not an scientific theory, do you even know what that is?

 

[HARK!]

I dont see how your post in any way showed me wrong.

I said life shuttled in. If you don't understand the difference; that's OK.

 

[Larniavc]

That would be abiogenesis yes.

However, there is no data supporting that idea.

Wouldn’t that be panspermia?

 

[Larniavc]

But it's infantly closer to 100%. Which I'll defend.

Yes but it is not 100%.

 

[VirOptimus]

I said life shuttled in. If you don't understand the difference; that's OK.

I understand perfectly.

Life shuttling in would still be life starting on earth, i.e. abiogenesis. But there is no real support for panspermia in the data.

Now, the scientific hypothesis of abiogenesis in biochemistry is more wellsupported but have a long way to go before its a theory.

 

[HARK!]

No. That would be panspermia.

I had suspected that he was in error. That's why I posted the definition.

 

[SkyWriting]

Its not an scientific theory, do you even know what that is?

Let me guess.....a theory?

Darwin's Contribution to the Development of the Panspermia Theory
R Demets - Astrobiology,

Life in icy habitats: new insights supporting panspermia theory
E Parrilli, F Sannino, G Marino, ML Tutino - Rendiconti Lincei, 2011 - Springer
Panspermia theory holds that microbial life is present in space or on bodies like comets or asteroids, and it can be safely delivered to Earth and start life there.

Progress towards the vindication of panspermia
NC Wickramasinghe, M Wainwright, JV Narlikar… - Astrophysics and Space …, 2003 - Springer and Grady, 2000). The theory of panspermia (Hoyle and Wickramasinghe, 1983)
does not address the question of a first origin of life, but only argues for its
continuation once an origin is achieved.

[BOOK] Laboratory studies of stratospheric dust: Relevance to the theory of cometary panspermia
N Miyake - 2008 - orca.cf.ac.uk
This thesis presents results of laboratory investigations of stratospheric dust that have a direct bearing on the theory of cometary panspermia. Chapter 1 deals with the historical backdrop to panspermia theories, with a summary of recent relevant work on comets

 

[HARK!]

have a long way to go before its a theory.

That's an understatement.

 

[VirOptimus]

Let me guess.....a theory?

Darwin's Contribution to the Development of the Panspermia Theory
R Demets - Astrobiology,

Life in icy habitats: new insights supporting panspermia theory
E Parrilli, F Sannino, G Marino, ML Tutino - Rendiconti Lincei, 2011 - Springer
Panspermia theory holds that microbial life is present in space or on bodies like comets or asteroids, and it can be safely delivered to Earth and start life there.

Progress towards the vindication of panspermia
NC Wickramasinghe, M Wainwright, JV Narlikar… - Astrophysics and Space …, 2003 - Springer and Grady, 2000). The theory of panspermia (Hoyle and Wickramasinghe, 1983)
does not address the question of a first origin of life, but only argues for its
continuation once an origin is achieved.

Its not a scientific theory, its barely a hypothesis.

 

[VirOptimus]

That's an understatement.

But its still science of course.

 

[klutedavid]

Because scientific axioms are neutral in application, they're not trying to insinuate things from an anthropocentric perspective that regards us as superior to animals and the like. If this is the best you have, not sure you're remotely understanding science in the first place if you throw out "proof" when talking about natural sciences and suggest that because we cannot have "proof" of such things as uniformity of nature in a scientific manner that we're engaging in faith based claims

I'm referring to an axiom such as; between any two points there exists a straight line between those two points.

That is an axiom because it is impossible to know if a straight line even exists.

You can assume that by observation and measurement that you can understand the universe. That is an assumption. It is unknown whether we will ever understand the universe.

Science is in essence a faith driven paradigm, you must believe that you can derive an understanding of the universe. I for one, am not a believer in this idea; that by observational evidence that we can know the universe.