A question for athiests

[AV1611VET]

Before that, the thread stuck to atheists' reasons for not being Christians.

Excuse me, but the OP says "people" --- not "atheists".

I can tell you why atheists aren't Christians, but that would [probably] just start a flame war.

 

[jpcedotal]

Just to put my 2¢ in here, Creationism should not be taught in the public school system.

This is because I don't believe our teachers are qualified to teach it the way it should be taught.

Namely, they should stick to creationism being an act of history, not science.

Creationism should be taught in the church, not the schools.

And by the same token, I don't think evolution should be taught at all, anywhere.

So, keep Creationism in church and teach what science in schools in place of evolution?

 

[CoderHead]

Excuse me, but the OP says "people" --- not "atheists".

Read the thread title:
A question for athiests [sic]

 

[AV1611VET]

People around here say that the number one reason people aren't christians is because of christians themselves. As in...the really religious ones who go around trying to force it on people and preaching over people like there's no tomorrow...Is it true? I'm curious.

No --- that's not true.

That's because you have the wrong definition of a Christian in your OP.

We don't "try to force" people into getting saved --- that's for the cults.

As John put it:

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

 

[jpcedotal]

The problem isn't that we force our beliefs on others, it is the fact that strong Christians can not be moved or changed in their core beliefs....so when this road block is hit, words like ignorance are used instead.

 

[AV1611VET]

So, keep Creationism in church and teach what science in schools in place of evolution?

What I would be afraid of, JP, is a school getting a teacher that doesn't believe in a literal Genesis 1.

You might have one teacher teaching Gap Theory, one teacher somewhere else teaching Day-Age Theory, one teacher teaching Embedded Age ( ), one teaching Last Thursday, Omphalos, etc.

 

[AV1611VET]

Read the thread title:
A question for athiests [sic]

Well, for the record, an atheist has determined in his heart (not his head) that God doesn't exist; and God has turned him over to what's called a 'reprobate mind' --- a form of "giving up on him".

(Not totally, but somewhat.)

 

[Gracchus]

Why is this a national level debate? Why not let us backwoods rednecks teach our kids what we want in out local schools.

Because children have rights too. Even your children have rights. You have the right to teach them what you like. But if they attend public schools the state has the duty to teach them what is known to the best of human knowledge.

Why does something so "obvious" have to be force taught?

ε^(ιθ) = cos θ + ι sin θ is obvious. So is ε^( ι&#960 +1 = 0. But they aren't obvious until you understand them. Then they are not only obvious, but necessarily true.

We are not against teaching English and Mathematics and History (as long as it sticks to the facts) and Biology and even Earth Science (to a point).

To a point? Why not teach biology and geology as long as we stick to the facts? (And if you think history "sticks to the facts" you are exceedinly naive!)

Christians are not against science, just religion pretending to be science.

Correction: Some Christians are not against science as long as it does not contradict their contra-factual dogmas. When dogma, (e.g. talking snakes, magical trees, and six day creation) is refuted, they grab a cup from their electric coffee maker, sit down at their computers and post nonsense on the internet.

 

[Suplux]

Being a Christian myself, I can understand what's it like to "fit in in their shoes and why some Christians lose trust in each other and give up Christianity. We have a Jesus Christ who loves you unconditionally, who loves you for who you are, your high level of intelligence, or low level of intelligence. Jesus loves everyone across the board and because of sin that began with Adam and Eve, atheism can result. My perfect health is evidence of God's constant healing knowing that disease is spiritually demonic. I know that old age disease is incurable because God made it happen as punishment, but at the same time, as the next phase to life after death by accepting Jesus Christ who died for us. God brought crisis or disease in our lives and if you want proof then ask and you shall receive supernatural healing. Benny Hin's world miracle crusades cannot be stopped because you have to experience it to believe God's healing.

So what is my perfect health proof of? I don't pray, nor do I believe in god.

I mean, of all people on this world I should have been...well struck to the ground right now! Yet I rarely ever get sick and have stellar health. Proof of god? Or proof of a healthy, strong immune system from thousands of years of evolution? I'd choose the latter.

I must ask...where do you get this stuff? I'm not trying to be explicitly rude here, I'm simply wondering. What makes you truly believe (and I'm glad for you that you do truly believe this) that your health is proof of god? That old age is punishment? That adam and eve really existed. I mean, what REALLY makes you believe that? The bible?

Thanks for your time in answering,
Brandon

 

[tanzanos]

This issue of allowing Creationism in schools reminds me of Trials by Jury. When one is tried by a jury then you can kiss goodbye justice. Juries are ignorant of the law. They lack the expertise to understand the evidences and are prone to succumb to the theatrics of the lawyers. Likewise Creationists are like Juries in a court of law.
You want your kids to learn creationism? Send them to church. Schools are for erudition and not superstition!

 

[Wiccan_Child]

ε^(ιθ) = cos θ + ι sin θ is obvious. So is ε^( ι&#960 +1 = 0. But they aren't obvious until you understand them. Then they are not only obvious, but necessarily true.

*butts in* Question: how are they obvious? A = 1/2 b*h is obvious, but Euler's identity? Hmm...

 

[CoderHead]

What I would be afraid of, JP, is a school getting a teacher that doesn't believe in a literal Genesis 1.

I'd be thankful for it. I'd hate to have the kind of internal conflict a teacher who was a Biblical literalist would have while attempting to teach science.

Well, for the record, an atheist has determined in his heart (not his head) that God doesn't exist; and God has turned him over to what's called a 'reprobate mind' --- a form of "giving up on him".

So how does this reconcile with atheists who used to be Christians actively and earnestly seeking God? I wouldn't be an atheist today if God had revealed Himself to me when I was a Christian. I spent 14 years of my life looking for Him and determined in my heart that God doesn't exist after I figured out for sure that He wasn't there.

 

[AV1611VET]

So how does this reconcile with atheists who used to be Christians actively and earnestly seeking God?

If you were a Christian at one time, you would not have been seeking God; you would have found Him, and realized He was never "lost" --- you were.

My favorite question for those who claim they were Christians at one time, but no longer are, is this:

What made you turn your back on all of this?

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Did your "taste buds" change?

 

[tanzanos]

What made you turn your back on all of this?Did your "taste buds" change?

AV you are cracking me up. lol

 

[CoderHead]

If you were a Christian at one time, you would not have been seeking God; you would have found Him, and realized He was never "lost" --- you were.

Ooh! Is this the good old "not a real Christian" argument?

What made you turn your back on all of this?Did your "taste buds" change?

For your answer, see:

I wouldn't be an atheist today if God had revealed Himself to me when I was a Christian. I spent 14 years of my life looking for Him and determined in my heart that God doesn't exist after I figured out for sure that He wasn't there.

I think I already answered your question. And don't even presume to tell me what I did and didn't experience, how earnest I was or wasn't, and whether or not I did or didn't really want a relationship with God at the time.

The fact is, if God does exist, he's hands-down the best hide-and-seek opponent ever.

 

[jpcedotal]

I'd be thankful for it. I'd hate to have the kind of internal conflict a teacher who was a Biblical literalist would have while attempting to teach science.

So how does this reconcile with atheists who used to be Christians actively and earnestly seeking God? I wouldn't be an atheist today if God had revealed Himself to me when I was a Christian. I spent 14 years of my life looking for Him and determined in my heart that God doesn't exist after I figured out for sure that He wasn't there.

wow....you dismissed God because you demanded God to show himself to you and He didn't?

The reason God hasn't "shown" Himself to you is YOUR fault, not God's.

Check out Downpour (I will buy this book for you, if you will read it).

I know this just opens me up for ridicule, but naturalists all over this board keeping throwing out links for Christians to read so we will better understand the naturalists views, so I am just returning the favor. If somewhere deep inside you still want to find God seriously and completely, this will point you in the right direction....in my opinion.

Or just belittle me and maybe God will try to contact you thru someone else later on....sometimes God is too obvious for the rational mind to pick up on it.

 

[jpcedotal]

I will even go one step further....For every book I want you to read you can send me a book (link) that I will purchase and read. We will believe each other on our individual word...I am comfortable with that. If I tell you I will do something, I will...you can even quiz me later if you want.

Either, one of us will "change" the other, or both of us will become better educated about the other's world view.

Either way, it is a win-win situation. Ready to step up to the mic? I will for God anytime, anywhere.

 

[jpcedotal]

I am serious man, if you truly want to find God...I will help you in every single way I know how.

OR

If you are serious about educating a Christian in the "real" world, I am ready to learn.

Your turn....

 

[CoderHead]

wow....you dismissed God because you demanded God to show himself to you and He didn't?

I didn't say that. Not once did I say that I demanded God manifest Himself to me. I said I sought Him. I studied, prayed, fellowshipped with other believers, took classes, worked in the church...but never felt God's presence or fulfillment from the Holy Spirit. I wasn't asking for physical evidence. I was asking for spiritual guidance, inner peace, a sense of knowing at least some part of a greater truth.

As I said, I never found any of it. I never felt God's presence. I never understood a single part of His great plan. In addition, since discarding the religious beliefs I once grasped onto so firmly, I have no more fear of death or uncertainty over eternity. Now that I'm not a Christian I've found peace. No matter how you poke your finger at me, you can't take that away from me.

The reason God hasn't "shown" Himself to you is YOUR fault, not God's.

Thanks for the insightful evaluation. I gave God a big part of my life. The least He could have done was step up and do what He promised me in the New Testament.

Check out Downpour (I will buy this book for you, if you will read it).

"If you are unhappy with your current state of spiritual hunger; [...] this is definitely the book for you."

I'd say I'd probably get nothing out of that book. I'm not unhappy. Don't get me wrong, I think a book exchange is a really cool idea...

Or just belittle me and maybe God will try to contact you thru someone else later on....sometimes God is too obvious for the rational mind to pick up on it.

Never my intent. Like I said, if I felt I would get anything at all out of the books you suggest, I'd be all for it. I just don't have any "atheist books" for you to read. I don't feel that I need to sway your beliefs; I'm just stating mine and trying to understand why you believe the way you do.

Either way, it is a win-win situation. Ready to step up to the mic? I will for God anytime, anywhere.

I love the idea, but like I said, I have nothing to offer in the exchange.

 

[jpcedotal]

Fair enough....the book I linked is good though. I will quit preaching now.

Peace man