A question for athiests

[EnemyPartyII]

I'm curious why that is for you. Is it simply that you would walk away in order to visibly and literally disassociate yourself from them, or does their behavior cause you to actually question Christianity (its truth claims, its potential to transform, its aesthetic beauty or some such)?

Well, more the first one I guess... I mean, I think those guys have got it really wrong. Really REALLY wrong... and I honestly don't understand how you can read the same source material and come out with too such utterly different interpretations as mine and theirs... but heres the point. Maybe they're reading it right. Maybe they really are reading the scriptures the way they were actually intended to be read. And since they are so blindingly WRONG about so much, or, rather, so blindingly oblivious to empiricism, logic and coherency, well, if they're reading it right, I don't believe in what they believe.

I also sometimes question my faith because I have a hard time believing that the loving accepting Christ and God that I believe in can be so thoroughly misunderstood by Bible bashing bigots, fear mongers and rable rousers as to actually exist. I mean the Christian message, as I understand it, is beautiful, simple and uplifting. Yet to hear some people tell it, its about arcane semantics, exclusionism and fear. I don't see how the two PsOV can come from the same place.

Does that make sense? Happy to explain further.

 

[70x7]

Well, the greater problem is working out which God is the God you should be pleasing, isn't it?

Oh no no. Thats actually pretty simple.
How many "gods" have died and rose? One.

 

[70x7]

If I remember correctly, all good works are as dust and ash to your god, so why bother?

Good works do not get you into heaven, only believing that Jesus is your personal Redeemer. Being nice and doing nice things are models of Christ, whic hwe should strive to be like. Being a Christian isn't meerly saying you are, but showing you are.
This might just be coincedence, but in a way you are correct in saying that works are ash. At the final judgement, God takes all our works (good or bad) and burns them in the fire and rewards the righteous with various crowns. However, I know that wasn't your point.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Oh no no. Thats actually pretty simple.
How many "gods" have died and rose? One.

Um... well ACTUALLY... many religious traditions have a God, demi god or prophet said to have died and raisded from the dead. Now I know you're going to say that Christianity is the only one where its TRUE, and, while I believe that, I also think its important to admit that in terms of evidence, the resurrection of Jesus is no better supported by evidence than the resurrection of Osiris.

 

[70x7]

Why are humans obligated to make an account to God?

Are children dependant and held accountable to thier parents?

 

[Penumbra]

Are children dependant and held accountable to thier parents?

Yes, so that they can grow up to the point where they can make their own decisions.

Also, they are only accountable to their parent if their parent is around. If their parent is in prison, or is an absentee parent that has no contact with their child, or is a parent across the country that only sends letters once in a while, then the child isn't accountable to that parent because there is nothing to be accountable to.

-Lyn

 

[InkBlott]

Well, more the first one I guess... I mean, I think those guys have got it really wrong. Really REALLY wrong... and I honestly don't understand how you can read the same source material and come out with too such utterly different interpretations as mine and theirs... but heres the point. Maybe they're reading it right. Maybe they really are reading the scriptures the way they were actually intended to be read. And since they are so blindingly WRONG about so much, or, rather, so blindingly oblivious to empiricism, logic and coherency, well, if they're reading it right, I don't believe in what they believe.

I also sometimes question my faith because I have a hard time believing that the loving accepting Christ and God that I believe in can be so thoroughly misunderstood by Bible bashing bigots, fear mongers and rable rousers as to actually exist. I mean the Christian message, as I understand it, is beautiful, simple and uplifting. Yet to hear some people tell it, its about arcane semantics, exclusionism and fear. I don't see how the two PsOV can come from the same place.

Does that make sense? Happy to explain further.

Actually, that makes perfect sense. You've expressed it far better than I've been able.

 

[Mling]

There were lots of reasons for my leaving Christianity, and....Christians was one of them, but I'm not sure it was exactly for the reasons you describe in the OP.

Or, there was another step involved. It wasn't just "Oh, these Christians are obnoxious, I don't want to be like that."

There were lots of different steps, and by the time the "obnoxious Christians" part of it came around, I was already really doubting. I was at a Christian College, and had studied the history of Christianity, and was starting to seriously doubt that the religious doctrine was really true. I believed in the teachings of Jesus, but not in the creeds and dogmas created at the Council of Nicea.

What turned me off even more wasn't exactly that Christians were obnoxious, but that Christians as a whole didn't show any sign of ..change, or of being unique. Nice Christians were nice in all the same ways that nice atheists or Wicans are nice. Stupid Christians were obnoxious in all the same way that stupid athiests are obnoxious.

Likewise, if you look at any great social movement, you see liberal Christians on one side, with the other liberals, and conservative Christians on the other side, with the other conservatives. Religious affiliation didn't seem to matter at all--what mattered was political affiliation. People who were religious just argued their political views with religious language.

Seeing that Christianity could be anything to anybody was what really made it clear to me that it has no significant influence on people, except to reenforce what they already believe.

At that time, my theological views were drifting so far from orthodox (little o) Christianity that I decided, "Hey, my views don't match up, and I don't think the title means anything...I'm going to stop using it."

I said I "tried to follow Jesus" for a while, and then later lost my belief in god, entirely.

 

[The Nihilist]

Good works do not get you into heaven, only believing that Jesus is your personal Redeemer. Being nice and doing nice things are models of Christ, whic hwe should strive to be like. Being a Christian isn't meerly saying you are, but showing you are.
This might just be coincedence, but in a way you are correct in saying that works are ash. At the final judgement, God takes all our works (good or bad) and burns them in the fire and rewards the righteous with various crowns. However, I know that wasn't your point.

I don't think Matthew 25:31-46 agrees with you.
When you ask whether children are accountable to their parents, what do you mean exactly?

 

[nolongerhome]

Oh no no. Thats actually pretty simple.
How many "gods" have died and rose? One.

You think that the resurrection story is only found in Christianity?

If we assume the God of the Catholics, Orthodox and Protestant (with all the subsections of the three) is the same God, there seems to be a wide variety of ways to follow that God. Which is the right one?

I would say that the answer is far from simple - there is little basis to make a decision one way or the other.

 

[tanzanos]

There were lots of reasons for my leaving Christianity, and....Christians was one of them, but I'm not sure it was exactly for the reasons you describe in the OP.

Or, there was another step involved. It wasn't just "Oh, these Christians are obnoxious, I don't want to be like that."

There were lots of different steps, and by the time the "obnoxious Christians" part of it came around, I was already really doubting. I was at a Christian College, and had studied the history of Christianity, and was starting to seriously doubt that the religious doctrine was really true. I believed in the teachings of Jesus, but not in the creeds and dogmas created at the Council of Nicea.

What turned me off even more wasn't exactly that Christians were obnoxious, but that Christians as a whole didn't show any sign of ..change, or of being unique. Nice Christians were nice in all the same ways that nice atheists or Wicans are nice. Stupid Christians were obnoxious in all the same way that stupid athiests are obnoxious.

Likewise, if you look at any great social movement, you see liberal Christians on one side, with the other liberals, and conservative Christians on the other side, with the other conservatives. Religious affiliation didn't seem to matter at all--what mattered was political affiliation. People who were religious just argued their political views with religious language.

Seeing that Christianity could be anything to anybody was what really made it clear to me that it has no significant influence on people, except to reenforce what they already believe.

At that time, my theological views were drifting so far from orthodox (little o) Christianity that I decided, "Hey, my views don't match up, and I don't think the title means anything...I'm going to stop using it."

I said I "tried to follow Jesus" for a while, and then later lost my belief in god, entirely.

Almost like reading my reasons! Your post is right on the mark as far as politics and the Nicene creed is concerned!

 

[korn1]

Interesting

 

[Fear]

People around here say that the number one reason people aren't christians is because of christians themselves. As in...the really religious ones who go around trying to force it on people and preaching over people like there's no tomorrow...Is it true? I'm curious.

Nope, I am not a Christian because I find it's claims unbelievable. It would be silly to reject a framework of thought because some of its adherents were loonies. There's some straight-up jerkfaces who believe in gravity, but we accept it anyway.

 

[Zebra1552]

People around here say that the number one reason people aren't christians is because of christians themselves. As in...the really religious ones who go around trying to force it on people and preaching over people like there's no tomorrow...Is it true? I'm curious.

The reason I remain devoted to Christian teachings is because of Christian's lack of living out their own claims... and yes, Christians are annoying.

 

[dayhiker]

I'm a Christian. Thanks for your replies. They are consistent with the other comments I read from athiests over the years.

 

[InkBlott]

I'm a Christian. Thanks for your replies. They are consistent with the other comments I read from athiests over the years.

What prompted you to ask the question at this time?

 

[Faelin]

No. Most people aren't Christian because they were brought up in some other religion or found another religion that better suits their needs. A few bad apples in Christianity may put off a few people, but if anything, I believe they better reinforce a preconceived notion of Christianity rather than serve as the prime motivator. And the number who are actually turned off to Christianity by such actions has to be extremely small.

Well said... I agree

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Oh no no. Thats actually pretty simple.
How many "gods" have died and rose? One.

Actually, many have died and rose: Osiris, Isis, Horus, Tammuz, Dionysus, Odin, and, of course, Jesus Christ, are all deities who are meant to have died and risen again.

'Course, there's the little question of whether they actually did that, or whether they're just more mythological figures...

 

[Faelin]

Actually, many have died and rose: Osiris, Isis, Horus, Tammuz, Dionysus, Odin, and, of course, Jesus Christ, are all deities who are meant to have died and risen again.

'Course, there's the little question of whether they actually did that, or whether they're just more mythological figures...

Don't forget Mithras.

 

[Gracchus]

A question for athiests
People around here say that the number one reason people aren't christians is because of christians themselves. As in...the really religious ones who go around trying to force it on people and preaching over people like there's no tomorrow...Is it true? I'm curious.

The reason I'm not a Christian is that Christians can't spell.



On the other hand, I am not exactly an a-t-h-e-i-s-t.
Then again, Richard Dawkins said pantheists are just "sexed up atheists. But then, I am a panentheist, so maybe I don't get laid as much.