A question for athiests

[Suplux]

You'll have to forgive me as I haven't read most of the posts in this topic and I hope I'm not interrupting anything.

It's my first real post so I'm just trying to "get my feet wet" I suppose.

Anyways, the reason for my atheism was certainly not these religious people who try to push their religion on others. Although, and I'm sure many will agree with me here, they are very, very annoying.

Rather, it was just that I began to question my religion and in doing so, I realized the answers were not logical and didn't have any evidence. God is improbable. Furthermore, there is also no evidence of his (her, it, etc...) existence. Therefore, it makes sense that logically we can conclude that absence of evidence is evidence of absence when the subject we are talking about is improbable.

Same goes for the invisible dragon living in my garage. With no proof of his existence and his (or her) high imporbability of said existence, I think it's safe for you to conclude that he (or she) doesn't exist. Of course, you'd be wrong!

Brandon

 

[CraigBaugher]

My daugher studied religion in college. The professor that taught the course was athiest, and instructed the students that they needed to go into this course with an open mind, and they will see that religion is something people cling to for a variety of emotional reasons, but all centering around facing the unknown of death and what happens after death.

She loved the course, loved the professor, and loved the philosphy of the Buddist faith. But in the end, she returned to Christianity. She felt good about this decision, because she had a good understanding of all faiths and including the non faith of being an athiest as well.

While I was concern, I kept my thoughts in check, and quietly allowed her to do her thing. The course made an impact on her, and she questioned everything, she spent a year or so questioning everything, and one day came to me and said, "Daddy, I'm not going to be Catholic anymore, but I do believe in Christ and I am a Christian. I just don't know what church I will attend." I just hugged her and told her, "Baby, I take care of your mother (who raised her Catholic), and you will find a church that is right for you," and she has...

She attends a non-denominational Christian church whose mission is to be Christ like and help people. They build homes, feed the hungry, volunteer to paint, repair, and maintain the elderly, sick, etc, homes. They clean parks, and anything and everything to make life a little easier for people. I'm proud of her, because instead of partying on school breaks, she volunteers to help people all around the world, and she judges no one, nor cares if the person she's helping is Christian, Jew, Buddist, Athiest, etc. She only cares if they are taken care of, and loved.

She has taught me a lot... I wish I was more like her...

 

[CoderHead]

She attends a non-denominational Christian church whose mission is to be Christ like and help people. They build homes, feed the hungry, volunteer to paint, repair, and maintain the elderly, sick, etc, homes. They clean parks, and anything and everything to make life a little easier for people. I'm proud of her, because instead of partying on school breaks, she volunteers to help people all around the world, and she judges no one, nor cares if the person she's helping is Christian, Jew, Buddist, Athiest, etc. She only cares if they are taken care of, and loved.

That's awesome!

 

[Quasicentennial]

Being a Christian myself, I can understand what's it like to "fit in in their shoes and why some Christians lose trust in each other and give up Christianity. We have a Jesus Christ who loves you unconditionally, who loves you for who you are, your high level of intelligence, or low level of intelligence. Jesus loves everyone across the board and because of sin that began with Adam and Eve, atheism can result. My perfect health is evidence of God's constant healing knowing that disease is spiritually demonic. I know that old age disease is incurable because God made it happen as punishment, but at the same time, as the next phase to life after death by accepting Jesus Christ who died for us. God brought crisis or disease in our lives and if you want proof then ask and you shall receive supernatural healing. Benny Hin's world miracle crusades cannot be stopped because you have to experience it to believe God's healing.

 

[CoderHead]

Jesus loves everyone across the board and because of sin that began with Adam and Eve, atheism can result.

You think atheism is a result of sin? That's funny, because I always thought it was a result of my capability for rational thought and scrutiny of conflicting ideas. News to me...

 

[tanzanos]

My daugher studied religion in college. The professor that taught the course was athiest, and instructed the students that they needed to go into this course with an open mind, and they will see that religion is something people cling to for a variety of emotional reasons, but all centering around facing the unknown of death and what happens after death.

She loved the course, loved the professor, and loved the philosphy of the Buddist faith. But in the end, she returned to Christianity. She felt good about this decision, because she had a good understanding of all faiths and including the non faith of being an athiest as well.

While I was concern, I kept my thoughts in check, and quietly allowed her to do her thing. The course made an impact on her, and she questioned everything, she spent a year or so questioning everything, and one day came to me and said, "Daddy, I'm not going to be Catholic anymore, but I do believe in Christ and I am a Christian. I just don't know what church I will attend." I just hugged her and told her, "Baby, I take care of your mother (who raised her Catholic), and you will find a church that is right for you," and she has...

She attends a non-denominational Christian church whose mission is to be Christ like and help people. They build homes, feed the hungry, volunteer to paint, repair, and maintain the elderly, sick, etc, homes. They clean parks, and anything and everything to make life a little easier for people. I'm proud of her, because instead of partying on school breaks, she volunteers to help people all around the world, and she judges no one, nor cares if the person she's helping is Christian, Jew, Buddist, Athiest, etc. She only cares if they are taken care of, and loved.

She has taught me a lot... I wish I was more like her...

Now that is what Christians should be like. Bravo to her and to you .

 

[tanzanos]

You think atheism is a result of sin? That's funny, because I always thought it was a result of my capability for rational thought and scrutiny of conflicting ideas. News to me...

Although I am an avid 4x4 off roader (was almost born in a series one Landrover in Africa) I just have this crazy affinity to Street bikes (Not hogs)! Nice Avatar

 

[Gracchus]

You think atheism is a result of sin? That's funny, because I always thought it was a result of my capability for rational thought and scrutiny of conflicting ideas. News to me...

But...but... Rational thought is a sin!



You have to live by faith, by believing ridiculous or impossible things, and the more ridiculous the things you believe in, the greater is your faith, and the more morally superior you are to the ruck of the rational.

I thought everyone knew that!

 

[jpcedotal]

So being "Anti-Christian" is not the driving force to believe that there is no God?

 

[CoderHead]

But...but... Rational thought is a sin!

I'm doomed, arent I?

 

[CoderHead]

So being "Anti-Christian" is not the driving force to believe that there is no God?

No! Not even a little bit.

I'm not a non-Christian because I hate Christians. Far from it. Christians are still people, and I feel that every person on this planet deserves the right to happiness. If being a Christian is what makes you happy, then more power to you. I'm a non-Christian because I don't require the fellowship, support, and group-think mentality that Christians appear to require in their lives. I'm comfortable with life and death exactly how they are.

I'm an atheist because the concept of a god or gods just doesn't make any sense at all to me. Not even a little bit. Even if I wanted to believe in a god right now I couldn't. I'm not wired that way. That doesn't make me a bad person or a big, fat sinner. It just means I don't believe in any gods.

There's no "driving force" to not believe in gods. You'd have to have a driving force to believe in gods. Not believing comes naturally.

Furthermore, it's not just your god I don't believe in...it's all of them.

 

[jpcedotal]

Since most atheists claim to not having a problem with Christianity as a whole, if one day Christians were beaten, tortured, and killed JUST because they would not denounce their faith, where would you, as an atheist, stand?

Did we get what we deserve?
Are we just too ignorant for our own good, so just let it happen?
Would you help us fight against the tyranny on the simple fact that one belief was trying to forcibly eliminate another which is wrong?

Just where are you gonna stand IF this happens...simply with the side of the majority?

 

[Gracchus]

So being "Anti-Christian" is not the driving force to believe that there is no God?

In the second grade I realized that "original sin" and "vicarious atonement" made absolutely no sense. I ceased to be a Christian, though I did not discard entirely the teachings of Jesus. I saw that some made sense, and if everyone, or even just the Christians would follow them, the world would be a better place.

I realized that Christians claimed that God was forgiving their sins, but that was merely an excuse to just keep on doing what they were doing. Then I realized the same could be seen in Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, et cetera, et cetera. Religion is just something you parade to fit in.

I became agnostic, but not atheist.

 

[jpcedotal]

No! Not even a little bit.

I'm not a non-Christian because I hate Christians. Far from it. Christians are still people, and I feel that every person on this planet deserves the right to happiness. If being a Christian is what makes you happy, then more power to you. I'm a non-Christian because I don't require the fellowship, support, and group-think mentality that Christians appear to require in their lives. I'm comfortable with life and death exactly how they are.

I'm an atheist because the concept of a god or gods just doesn't make any sense at all to me. Not even a little bit. Even if I wanted to believe in a god right now I couldn't. I'm not wired that way. That doesn't make me a bad person or a big, fat sinner. It just means I don't believe in any gods.

There's no "driving force" to not believe in gods. You'd have to have a driving force to believe in gods. Not believing comes naturally.

Furthermore, it's not just your god I don't believe in...it's all of them.

Not trying to put you on the defensive, just adding to the conversation.

I believe it is ingrained in everyone to worship something, whether it is a deity or the cosmos or some great mind or oneself. That's why the Bible never uses "those who do not worship anything" anywhere....there just isn't a such person.

It is not the "believing", it is the "worshiping" I am talking about. We all do it.

Sorry we are alike in that aspect...I worship God, you worship science or nature or something along those lines.

If you had to chose and these were the only two choices....

Allow Creationism to be taught in public schools along side evolution

or

Take evolution out of public schools so Creationism would have to stay out

Which do you choose? Is it because "It would be hell or high water before you allowed Christianity back into our schools" or some other rational reason? Or are you open-minded enough to allow Creationism in and just teach your children that one is right and the other is wrong....like Christians do everyday without the help of the public school system?

 

[jpcedotal]

Just to add...

I would be all for letting Creationism and evolution be taught in our public schools. In fact, how about making it a requirement to our children to take Creationism I and evolution I, then letting them decide WITHOUT penalty if they would like to take either C II or E II or both the next year or two?

Is that so wrong? Isn't that showing more open-mindness than what naturalist/atheists/agnostics show now?

 

[CoderHead]

Since most atheists claim to not having a problem with Christianity as a whole

Meh, actually I kind of do have a problem with Christianity. It's like a pyramid scheme and most people are drawn into it before they even develop a language. I disagree strongly with the "get them while they're young" tactics of the religion itself.

if one day Christians were beaten, tortured, and killed JUST because they would not denounce their faith, where would you, as an atheist, stand?

Had I been alive in the 1930s and 1940s, I would have been outraged at the treatment of the Jews. Had I been alive during the 1800s I would have been an abolitionist. Had I been alive during the Crusades, I would have been mortified by the Church's actions. Today, I'm disgusted by the religious anti-gay movement. In the future, I would be against a "cleansing" of Christians, yes. We're all humans regardless of what we believe.

Just where are you gonna stand IF this happens...simply with the side of the majority?

You don't see me siding with the majority right now, do you? If I were, I'd be typing out your arguments, not mine.

If you had to chose and these were the only two choices....

Allow Creationism to be taught in public schools along side evolution

or

Take evolution out of public schools so Creationism would have to stay out

The question doesn't make sense. You're asking me if I would favor removing solid science from educational institutions in order to not offend the religious people's delicate sensibilities. No, I wouldn't do that. If evolution were founded on superstition and had no evidence whatsoever to make it a viable scientific theory, I'd vote to yank it in a heartbeat. Creationism has no evidence, no basis in the laws of the physical world, and is specific (in your argument) to the Biblical story of the Abrahamic God. What about all of the other creation stories and all the other gods? Would you vote to give them equal time in the classroom as well?

Why not teach science in science class, and religion in religion classes? Is that really too much to ask?

And if I absolutely, positively had to choose one of your options, I'd go for #2. Not because I hate your God, but because Creationism is not science and doesn't belong in schools.

I would be all for letting Creationism and evolution be taught in our public schools. In fact, how about making it a requirement to our children to take Creationism I and evolution I, then letting them decide WITHOUT penalty if they would like to take either C II or E II or both the next year or two?

Do Creationism I and II include every creation story ever conceived? Or just the Christian one? The problem as I see it, is not that naturalists/atheists/agnostics are closed-minded, but that there's a push from the Christian community to get their doctrine into schools and government to the explicit exclusion of all other religions. If Christianity can be taught in schools, why not Muslim, Hindu, or Buddhist? Are you OK with equal time for all religions?

 

[tanzanos]

Since most atheists claim to not having a problem with Christianity as a whole, if one day Christians were beaten, tortured, and killed JUST because they would not denounce their faith, where would you, as an atheist, stand?

I will fight for your right to life and dignity as I would for any human and animal! I care not what your beliefs are for if I were to have any decency the least I would do is the above!

 

[jpcedotal]

Meh, actually I kind of do have a problem with Christianity. It's like a pyramid scheme and most people are drawn into it before they even develop a language. I disagree strongly with the "get them while they're young" tactics of the religion itself.

Isn't that what evolutionists are doing now? Teach the kids evolution while they believe everything they hear? What's good for one is good for the other, if we use your argument.

Had I been alive in the 1930s and 1940s, I would have been outraged at the treatment of the Jews. Had I been alive during the 1800s I would have been an abolitionist. Had I been alive during the Crusades, I would have been mortified by the Church's actions. Today, I'm disgusted by the religious anti-gay movement. In the future, I would be against a "cleansing" of Christians, yes. We're all humans regardless of what we believe.

Amen, brother. That is by far the most sound statement you have made.

You don't see me siding with the majority right now, do you? If I were, I'd be typing out your arguments, not mine.

Your side is definitely picking up steam.....

The question doesn't make sense. You're asking me if I would favor removing solid science from educational institutions in order to not offend the religious people's delicate sensibilities. No, I wouldn't do that. If evolution were founded on superstition and had no evidence whatsoever to make it a viable scientific theory, I'd vote to yank it in a heartbeat. Creationism has no evidence, no basis in the laws of the physical world, and is specific (in your argument) to the Biblical story of the Abrahamic God. What about all of the other creation stories and all the other gods? Would you vote to give them equal time in the classroom as well?

Why not teach science in science class, and religion in religion classes? Is that really too much to ask?

And if I absolutely, positively had to choose one of your options, I'd go for #2. Not because I hate your God, but because Creationism is not science and doesn't belong in schools.
Do Creationism I and II include every creation story ever conceived? Or just the Christian one? The problem as I see it, is not that naturalists/atheists/agnostics are closed-minded, but that there's a push from the Christian community to get their doctrine into schools and government to the explicit exclusion of all other religions. If Christianity can be taught in schools, why not Muslim, Hindu, or Buddhist? Are you OK with equal time for all religions?

You bring up a valid point in the last paragraph. As long as the time SPLIT includes time given to evolution as well. In other words, take what the top 3, 4 or 5 "Beginnings" are and give them equal time each year any one belief (sorry had to use that term) is taught. I don't want one to be taught to third graders only..

 

[jpcedotal]

I will fight for your right to life and dignity as I would for any human and animal! I care not what your beliefs are for if I were to have any decency the least I would do is the above!

Amen....that to me as a Christian is the litmus test. When this obvious response becomes something else then it is time for Christians everywhere to get ready.

 

[tanzanos]

I believe it is ingrained in everyone to worship something, whether it is a deity or the cosmos or some great mind or oneself. That's why the Bible never uses "those who do not worship anything" anywhere....there just isn't a such person.

So basically you are calling me a liar? I assure you; not only do I not have a need to worship a god, I don't even go beyond admiration for people I consider worthy! I worship nothing and no one. I admire science and its achievements but WORSHIP? That is a little on the heavy side!