A question about something I don't understand.

[Gold fish]

Why does the bible reference greek afterlife ideas?Like tartarus and hades for example?

 

[Mark Quayle]

Why does the bible reference greek afterlife ideas?Like tartarus and hades for example?

Why not?

 

[com7fy8]

Why does the bible reference greek afterlife ideas?Like tartarus and hades for example?

Which scripture? Please be specific.

The same word can have different meanings in different scriptures.

For example, "love" does not always mean the same thing.

And "Hades" used in the Bible would likely have a different meaning, than "Hades" used in a pagan writing . . . like how "God" would certainly have different meanings, depending on who is using the word.

If you read the context of "Hades" in a Greek writing, I think you would find the word "Hades", for the Greek, does not have the same idea as if Jesus uses the word "Hades".

Using the same word does not necessarily mean having the same idea.

Actually, I can not think of any scripture which "refers" us to Greek ideas. There might be use of a same word, but certainly a divinely inspired writer is not going to refer us to a pagan source . . . I would say.

 

[Gold fish]

Which scripture? Please be specific.

The same word can have different meanings in different scriptures.

For example, "love" does not always mean the same thing.

And "Hades" used in the Bible would likely have a different meaning, than "Hades" used in a pagan writing . . . like how "God" would certainly have different meanings, depending on who is using the word.

If you read the context of "Hades" in a Greek writing, I think you would find the word "Hades", for the Greek, does not have the same idea as if Jesus uses the word "Hades".

Using the same word does not necessarily mean having the same idea.

Actually, I can not think of any scripture which "refers" us to Greek ideas. There might be use of a same word, but certainly a divinely inspired writer is not going to refer us to a pagan source . . . I would say.

2 Peter 2:4 and Luke 16:19-31.Verse 23 in Luke 16:19-31.

 

[com7fy8]

@Gold fish > thank you for giving me scriptures that you are concerned about Let's start with one >

2 Peter 2:4 >

"For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;" (2 Peter 2:4)

And, yes, there is a note here, in my source, which says "hell" is translated from "Tartarus". But my Greek interlinear Bible and my Strong's Greek dictionary seem to say there is one word, meaning "cast into the greatest abyss". So, there is no word alone for "hell" or Tartarus, in the Greek Bible manuscript, but it seems there is a verb meaning "cast them into hell" > the interlinear direct wording is "having cast [them] to the deepest abyss" which might be all one verb word.

Now, like I offered > the wording here might be like to Greek polytheistic use of the words, but the meaning, I'll bet, is not the same idea or understanding.

Also, if you read the scripture with this verse, I think we can see the main point here is not to teach about hell, but to show how God is able to take care of us while He keeps evil people in custody for judgment. This is what Greek pagans might not have, in their idea of hell, though they use the same word or wording.

They might not have an idea that God has put evil angels into Tartarus; I don't know. And certainly their idea of hell and judgment does not include Jesus as the One to whom all judgment has been committed >

"'For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son,'" (John 5:22)

And, by the way, hell now is holding ones who are there, but then will come the lake of fire and brimstone which I understand will be different . . . for after the Day of Judgment. I doubt pagans in their idea of hell are planning for Jesus to call up ones from hell for the Day of Judgment. So, they do not have the same idea, I would consider.

 

[GirdYourLoins]

The new testament was written in Greek so using a Greek word is writting it is not unexpected.

 

[com7fy8]

Luke 16:19-31

Here, the translated word for "hell" seems to be "Hades". It seems this word in Greek can mean "unseen". So, I see this could mean the rich man went into where we do not see > the underworld, hell.

So, here we have a word that Greeks might use, but there is no idea here stated to be Greek. But we do see how the rich man can see Lazarus with Abraham. And Abraham talks personally with the rich man, but does not do what the rich man says he wants. There can be personal communication, though; and the rich man did have his way of relating while on the earth, not being compassionate.

So, all this may be considered part of the idea of hell . . . in the Bible. And Jesus will be the Judge. I do not know if this idea is the same as what you have read to be the or one of the Greek ideas.

But I will offer > Jesus is the source of what we have quoted in the Bible. He would know what is true, not only some idea. And if Satan were to somehow inform pagans about hell . . . I'll bet Satan would not represent things correctly > among other things, I do not think Satan will make sure they know Jesus is the Lord of all, and Jesus will judge where each person goes.

 

[miamited]

Hi @Gold fish

Why does the bible reference greek afterlife ideas?Like tartarus and hades for example?

Well, my first question would be who says that they are Greek afterlife ideas? The new covenant was predominantly written in Greek, so why shouldn't we expect to find Greek words describing ideas and issues?

Are there, perhaps better Greek words that you think should be used in those places where the words 'tartarus' and 'hades' are used to describe Scriptural truths about the after life? Keep in mind that 'hell' is not a Greek word.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Bob Crowley]

John's Gospel opens with reference to the Logos (λόγος (logos)), whereas our English translations use "Word". The term "Word" doesn't really do justice to the Greek term.

Glossary Definition: Logos.

A principle originating in classical Greek thought which refers to a universal divine reason, immanent in nature, yet transcending all oppositions and imperfections in the cosmos and humanity. An eternal and unchanging truth present from the time of creation, available to every individual who seeks it. A unifying and liberating revelatory force which reconciles the human with the divine; manifested in the world as an act of God's love in the form of the Christ.

The author of John was writing in Greek to a Greek based culture, which meant he used terms they understood. If you want to communicate, then talking to the audience in their own language is always a good idea.

 

[hedrick]

Clear ideas on the afterlife entered Judaism after the OT but before the NT. They seem to have developed across religions. So it’s probably not thst Greek ideas were imported but that Judaism developed them at the same time. Since the NT is written in Greek it’s not surprising that Greek terms are sometimes used. But so are terms based on Hebrew, primarily Gehenna. Hades seems to have been used as the Greek version of the OT shadowy concept of the afterlife. By Jesus time, commonLy ( though not universally), people often thought of two stages, with Hades being temporary and Gehenna where you go after the resurrection if you don’t go immediately to eternal life. Many Jews, however, thought that Gehenna was temporary for most or even all, despite Gehenna itself being eternal. There are a couple of Jewish references to Gehenna itself ending, though that doesn’t seem to have been common.

 

[BeyondET]

Why does the bible reference greek afterlife ideas?Like tartarus and hades for example?

Seems there are gates to hades.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

Seems there are gates to hades.

Eastern Orthodox iconography shows the gates of Hades being knocked down in the Resurrection and Christ standing on them or above them

 

[ViaCrucis]

Why does the bible reference greek afterlife ideas?Like tartarus and hades for example?

Hades is used to translate the Jewish/Hebrew concept of She'ol, the place of the dead. So it's not a reference to Greek Hades, but simply takes a word already used by Greeks to refer to the place of the dead, and uses it to describe the Jewish place of the dead.

It's the same reason why we use the word "hell" in English. Hel was the icy underworld where the dead went in Germanic/Norse Paganism, and it was ruled over by a goddess, also named Hel. When Germanic peoples converted to Christianity, this word "hel" in reference to the place of the dead was used to describe Christian ideas.

Tartarus occurs once, in 2 Peter, and is likewise a borrowing. 2 Peter isn't saying that the mythological Tartarus is real, but is borrowing Greek Tartarus to describe the condition of the imprisoned. 2 Peter is likely being influenced by the book of Enoch, which mentions the fallen Watchers--pre-Flood angels who fell from grace--being imprisoned in "Tartarus". (I maintain that the book of Enoch is heavily influenced by Hellenistic ideas, there are some interesting comparisons between the Watchers and "giants" in Enoch and the war of the Titans in Greek mythology). including the imprisonment of the Titans/Watchers to Tartarus in both cases. This doesn't mean that Enoch is Scripture, nor does it mean that Greek mythology has validity, it simply means that the writer of 2 Peter made a reference to these things as part of his warning against falling away into apostasy.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[GreekOrthodox]

And to add to what Via said, "hell" for us modern English speakers is where there is "gnashing of teeth". So when it is used in the Apostles Creed, "descended to hell", it gives a different connotation than "descended to the grave" or "the dead".

 

[Davy]

Why does the bible reference greek afterlife ideas?Like tartarus and hades for example?

Because the Greek language and culture was widespread over many countries, and that's what the basic peoples understood. So the Apostles used ideas they could understand, yet they still showed differences from the pagan ideas. This should easily be grasped just by study of the New Testament Scriptures.

 

[Eloy Craft]

Why does the bible reference greek afterlife ideas?Like tartarus and hades for example?

Divine Revelation introduces new concepts without new words to symbolize them. Until new language develops to more accurately describe what God has revealed, old words will be used.

 

[sandman]

Why does the bible reference greek afterlife ideas?Like tartarus and hades for example?

Throughout the years Christendom has taught that HE- double hockey sticks is defined as burning for eternity, endlessly tormented by demons, the weeping and gnashing of teeth … and warm beer….that is enough to >> scare the Hell outta of you!

This is used to motivate Christians to walk the straight and narrow….to be good people to never sin…which, in and of itself is a good thing EXCEPT …telling someone they are going to hell is fear motivation and that is not how God operates…..God is love and motivates through love.

They will also tell you that God does not send people to hell …people do it to themselves as a consequence of sin. The problem is… HELL is not hell….or at least not the horrific description that Christendom has taught us.


Somehow through religion and fear motivation we have adapted the meaning, which the Greeks have put upon this word, and we have been synonymous in our definition with sheol, hades, gehenna, katakaio, and tartaros as that of eternal torment. Those are the words used that have been translated into our one English word for hell; they are not the same.

The word hades from the Greek was used as a counterpart to the Hebrew word sheol and is more accurately defined as a state rather than a place.


Gravedom is a word coined by E W Bullinger, and is a great word for hell; it is the state or the reign of being in the grave; I am not talking about the grave itself which employs the Greek word (qeber). I am speaking of the time when one takes his last breath, until the return of our savior Jesus Christ.

We must disregard the meaning that is placed on the word hell today. The Bibles’ definition is; “the state of being when one dies,” it’s a continuing state until the resurrection.” That’s it ….it is that simple, and that defined in the Bible.


Interpreters Dictionary of the Bible {1962 vol. 1 p788} states
The English word hell has taken on the mythological Greek meaning associated with the pagan idea of an underworld where the dead continue to live on in torment.


The standard for truth in defining words has got to come from the Bible itself, not from the meaning(s) attached to it, which is where the confusion comes in.
In Greek mythology Hades was the god of the underworld and his name came to represent this fictitious place that we understand as Hell. The Septuagint was a second century B.C. Greek translation of the Old Testament, and in it the word Hades was chosen as the counterpart to the Hebrew Sheol. As is done with Sheol, many English versions of the Bible erroneously translate the Greek word Hades as hell rather than grave.

As E. W. Bullinger states “The Old Testament is the fountain-head of the Hebrew language. It has no literature behind it. But the case is entirely different with the Greek language. The Hebrew word Sheol is divine in its origin and usage. The Greek Hades is human in its nature and come down laden with centuries of development, in which it has acquired new senses, meaning and usages.”

Nowhere in the Old Testament is the abode of the dead regarded as a place of punishment or torment. The concept of an infernal “hell” developed in Israel only during the Hellenistic period.
In following up with Bullinger’s statement lets look at the scriptures in Acts & Psalms that prove his point. Acts 2:27-31 ....Psa 16:10




As biblical students we must use the Words interpretation of itself, to define words within the Bible. Clearly there is no justification to the eternal torment, which has been advocated throughout Christendom today. Whether we translate it or transliterate it, we have to give it the meaning that God purposed; everything else outside the Word of God must be discarded.

God has chosen to use words in the Word to communicate to us, it is not up to us, or literature to define those words, the only meaning we should attach to words (in the written Word of God) is that which God allows; that in part is what II Timothy 2:15 speaks of. 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Sheol exists only as a concept, it is a figurative, not an actual place. Bodies buried in a quber (a literal grave) will decay and eventually disappear. The dead exist only in the mind of God who remembers every person who has died. He will send His Son the firstborn from the dead (Colossians 1:18; Revelation 1:5) to raise the rest of the dead from this “place” Jhn 5:28&29


This leaves us with the other words gehenna, katakaio, and tartaros translated hell, or as hell.

Gehenna – A Greek word for the Hebrew “valley of Hinnom” which was a city dump outside of Jerusalem. This was a place that was common knowledge to the people.
When Christ would address this He was illustrating that garbage thrown into the gehenna would be burned up. No one listening to Jesus would believe that that the garbage would continue to exist in the fire ….without being consumed.
This is the place of everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord spoken of in II Thes 1:9 It refers to the fire of judgment in which the wicked will one day be consumed. It is called “the lake of fire” in the book of Revelation where fire will bring the ultimate annihilation of the devil and his hosts.

Katakaio is used in Hebrews 13:11 regarding the sacrificial beasts that were burned outside the camp.
For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp.

This same word is used in Matthew 3:12
Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
Neither Chaff nor beasts burn forever, they burn up and are gone …many verses make this clear. Nowhere in the Word of God does it say that God will torment forever those who have refused to believe Him.

Tartarous is used once and translated hell in II Peter 2:4 it refers to the place of imprisoned evil spirits ……not a place of torment for sinners.
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;