A Question About Signs and Wonders

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I didn't realized God gave you the gift of reading people's minds.

You have never been a teacher before?

As far as that is concerned I don't give a rat's a... The topic is a discussion about the signs and wonders movement, and I did not start this thread to allow people to engage in a two horse race trolling another member with a series of 20 questions. So, stop trolling and contribute meaningful discussion or else get off the thread.

 

[Guojing]

As far as that is concerned I don't give a rat's a... The topic is a discussion about the signs and wonders movement, and I did not start this thread to allow people to engage in a two horse race trolling another member with a series of 20 questions. So, stop trolling and contribute meaningful discussion or else get off the thread.

Who decides whether a contribution is meaningful or not?

Is it you?

 

[Always in His Presence]

So, is the teaching that ordinary believers are able to perform signs and wonders in today's church true or false? If we go by the book of Acts, we may have to decide that the teaching is false.

According to Jesus Christ - it is true.

Mark 16: 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”​

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Those are His words - I am NOT willing to call Him a liar.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

According to Jesus Christ - it is true.

Mark 16: 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”​

​

Those are His words - I am willing to call Him a liar.

There is an interesting BBC documentary about the signs and wonders that supposedly took place in T.B Joshua's church in Africa. It shows people getting healed of all sorts of medical conditions. But the man who was the main editor of the videos depicting the signs and wonders came out and said it was all faked, because he was the one who set up the faked healings. Where they showed a person being healing of a wound on someone's they showed the before, and then waited several months for the leg to heal naturally or through medical treatment and then showed the after photo to make it appear that the leg was healed within just a couple of days. They had people who could walk pretending to be crippled and then raised out of their wheelchairs. The man said that in all his time with T B Joshua's church he never saw one true healing. He says that they were, without exception, all faked. Looks like this is an example of "signs and wonders" in the third world.

Here is the first episode of the BBC documentary:

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I have just found out that the Charismatic preacher who are touching people who are falling over are doing the same as the Hindu shamas doing the occult touch which causes Hindu worshippers falling down exactly the same way. This shows that Benny Hinn touching people having them fall over is using an occult touch to give people spiritual experiences that are not of the Holy Spirit. We saw the same thing happening at the Brownsville AOG and in meetings conducted by Kenneth Hagin. Kenneth Copeland did the same to a guy in a wheelchair and the guy fell backward, wheelchair and all. This shows me clearly that being slain in the "spirit" is being slain in a spirit that is not of God through an occult style touch by the preacher. "Do not believe every spirit but test the spirits whether they are of God because many false prophets have gone out into the world."

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

There is going to be a supernatural ministry training school to be held in New Zealand. They are going to charge a fee to enable people to have the power to do a supernatural ministry, Read about Simon the Sorcerer in the book of Acts. Here is the Facebook site:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10156724616810129

This is not of the Holy Spirit. Teaching people to practice signs and wonders is occult and will open participants up to spirits that are not of God. Be warned about this and have nothing to do with it.

 

[Always in His Presence]

There is an interesting BBC documentary about the signs and wonders that supposedly took place in T.B Joshua's church in Africa. It shows people getting healed of all sorts of medical conditions. But the man who was the main editor of the videos depicting the signs and wonders came out and said it was all faked, because he was the one who set up the faked healings. Where they showed a person being healing of a wound on someone's they showed the before, and then waited several months for the leg to heal naturally or through medical treatment and then showed the after photo to make it appear that the leg was healed within just a couple of days. They had people who could walk pretending to be crippled and then raised out of their wheelchairs. The man said that in all his time with T B Joshua's church he never saw one true healing. He says that they were, without exception, all faked. Looks like this is an example of "signs and wonders" in the third world.

Here is the first episode of the BBC documentary:

What does that have to do with the Words of Jesus?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

What does that have to do with the Words of Jesus?

I don't understand. What words of Jesus are you referring to?

 

[Guojing]

According to Jesus Christ - it is true.

Mark 16: 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”​

​

Those are His words - I am NOT willing to call Him a liar.

Luke 12:32-33

32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

33 Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.

Do you follow his words here?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

What is being hidden by the signs and wonders movement is the multitude of disillusioned people who are leaving the movement because they know that the prophecies are false and the promise of signs and wonders is not being fulfilled. These are the ones who have decided to study their Bibles to test whether what is happening in the movement is of God and they are realising that it is not the Holy Spirit but another spirit that is motivating the preaching and the worship in the conferences. So in the light of what they are discovering there is a major exodus of godly people. That is not publicly known because the supporters of the NAR and signs and wonders movement are doing all they can to hide what is really happening behind the scenes.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Do you follow his words here?

We are speaking of signs and wonders. What on earth does those verses have to do with Jesus’ words in Mark?

 

[Always in His Presence]

According to Jesus Christ - it is true.

Mark 16: 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”Those are His words - I am NOT willing to call Him a liar.

I don't understand. What words of Jesus are you referring to?

The Words I already quoted in Mark.

 

[Guojing]

We are speaking of signs and wonders. What on earth does those verses have to do with Jesus’ words in Mark?

If those words of Jesus in Mark apply to you, why don't the words of Jesus in Luke 12:32-33 apply as well?

Those who are under that Mark passage, they certainly follow that latter command as well, in Acts 2:44-45 and Acts 4:32.

 

[Rose_bud]

To the OP when you mention NAR is it this you are referring to

New Apostolic Reformation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Rose_bud]

There is an interesting BBC documentary about the signs and wonders that supposedly took place in T.B Joshua's church in Africa. It shows people getting healed of all sorts of medical conditions. But the man who was the main editor of the videos depicting the signs and wonders came out and said it was all faked, because he was the one who set up the faked healings. Where they showed a person being healing of a wound on someone's they showed the before, and then waited several months for the leg to heal naturally or through medical treatment and then showed the after photo to make it appear that the leg was healed within just a couple of days. They had people who could walk pretending to be crippled and then raised out of their wheelchairs. The man said that in all his time with T B Joshua's church he never saw one true healing. He says that they were, without exception, all faked. Looks like this is an example of "signs and wonders" in the third world.

Here is the first episode of the BBC documentary:

This is interesting, I have never met TB Joshua, but friends of mine had met him when they visited Lagos, they didn't go to one of the church meetings. I will share this and hear their views.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

To the OP when you mention NAR is it this you are referring to

New Apostolic Reformation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yep.

 

[Always in His Presence]

If those words of Jesus in Mark apply to you, why don't the words of Jesus in Luke 12:32-33 apply as well?

Those who are under that Mark passage, they certainly follow that latter command as well, in Acts 2:44-45 and Acts 4:32.

Hint: I am not going to go down a rabbit trail, because the topic of this thread is about signs and wonders and the verses you post have ZERO to do with the topic.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Yep.

Will you be replying to the now two posts quoting Jesus' own words - or will they be ignored. If we are not going to have a back and forth conversation - It is little more than pontificating. IMHO

Part of being a Charismatic is believing that all the Charisms (Gifts) are active in the church today. If you are from the standpoint that they are not - perhaps you should consider changing your name.

Something else for you to consider and address is Paul's letter to the church -

1 Cor 12:27 27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. 28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles?​

 

[Always in His Presence]

This is interesting, I have never met TB Joshua, but friends of mine had met him when they visited Lagos, they didn't go to one of the church meetings. I will share this and hear their views.

TB Joshua died in 2021 - his ministry was exposed a number of years before that.

His ministry was resoundly rebuked by Charismatic Pastors and Government officials years ago.

Several prominent pastors in and outside Nigeria condemned him, including Pastor Chris Okotie, who described him as a "son of the devil"[117] as well as Enoch Adeboye, David Oyedepo, Ayo Oritsejafor, Paul Adefarasin, Matthew Ashimolowo, and Ted Haggard.[118][119] The Christian Association of Nigeria (CAN) rejected him (although a CAN delegation attended his funeral) and the Pentecostal Fellowship of Nigeria often criticized him.[25] Numerous evangelical and Pentecostal figures in Nigeria denounced Joshua as an "impostor" and occult figure posing as an evangelical.[23]​

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In 2010, Cameroon's foreign minister Henri Eyebe Ayissi termed Joshua a "son of the devil pretending to be a man of God" and advised hundreds of Cameroonians not to take a planned pilgrimage to Lagos, where several others had been left without accommodation.[15] Rumours of a visit by Joshua to Zimbabwe in 2012 led to an intense national debate, culminating with pastors and politicians strongly objecting.[16]​

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I would STRONGLY encourage your friend not to waste their time.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

If those words of Jesus in Mark apply to you, why don't the words of Jesus in Luke 12:32-33 apply as well?

Those who are under that Mark passage, they certainly follow that latter command as well, in Acts 2:44-45 and Acts 4:32.

The elephant in the room is that the signs and wonders are not happening. What we do see are the multitudes who turn up to these big name healing conferences, end up going back home still confined to their wheelchairs. Most the the real chronic cases never get near the platform and are never ministered to by the big name fellow. If the signs and wonders were really happening we would know all about them and they would be front page news in every newspaper in the land.