A Question About Signs and Wonders

[Bobber]

The problem is that healing of serious medical conditions is not taking place in these meetings.

You're not God and you can't know this to be true.

Not one of these big preachers have been able to provide at least one documented validated healing of a serious or life threatening medical condition or disability.

There's something not right about someone making such a demand from a preacher. First it's not his place to seek to do this his job before God is to do what God told him to do....PREACH THE WORD! Would it be right to go up to Jesus and demand that he provides documented proof of everything he did during his ministry. I doubt very seriously he would even answer such a request. He would just keep going forth doing his Father's will.....NOT YOU WILL.

Thousands of disappointed hopefuls return home disillusioned from these meetings, and the disgusting part is that the big man didn't even allow these very ill people up on to the stage for healing.

Question is you're opposed and will continue to have disdain for anyone who has a big type of meeting. Its seems you've automatically chosen to reject it.

 

[Bobber]

If you are following the Law to maintain your salvation, then you are not under grace. Period.

Please explain how that has ANYTHING to do with what I was talking about.

 

[sparow]

I have been reading about the resurrectionfd of Dorcas by Peter in Acts 9:32. What happened was the Dorcas died and the disciples who were with her sent for Peter who was living at another town. He came and raised her from the dead.

Now if signs and wonders were available for ordinary believers, why didn't they raise Dorcas from the dead instead of having to send for Peter? When Peter arrived, why did he not reprimand the disciples for not having the faith to raise her from the dead themselves.

I wonder if the answer is that because Peter was an Apostle, he was the one who had the ministry of signs and wonders. I looked through all the other examples of signs and wonders through the book of acts, and I found that all of them were performed by either Peter or Paul, and in some cases by Stephen and Philip. No recorded signs and wonders were performed by the ordinary believers in the book of Acts.

So, is the teaching that ordinary believers are able to perform signs and wonders in today's church true or false? If we go by the book of Acts, we may have to decide that the teaching is false. We also have to remember that Acts is descriptive church history and not doctrinally prescriptive.

Of course some in the NAR are saying that there are apostles in today's church, but there is a problem - Apostles are witnesses of the resurrection of Christ, personally appointed by Christ, and given the ministry of signs and wonders. Modern "apostles" are not direct witnesses of the resurrection of Christ, and have been appointed by their church and not personally by Christ; therefore they cannot be the specially chosen Apostles of Christ who can perform the same signs and wonders we see performed by the Apostles in the Book of Acts.

Referring to Acts 9:32, I would be like Thomas, I would feel for pulse before and after the resurrection; every time Jesus performed a Mirical he always said it was his Father who did it.

I think there is a difference between miricals and signs and wonders. Satan can perform signs and wonders, I don't think he can raise from the dead. Climate change is a wonder, itis a wonder so few can fool so many for so long.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

You're not God and you can't know this to be true.

There's something not right about someone making such a demand from a preacher. First it's not his place to seek to do this his job before God is to do what God told him to do....PREACH THE WORD! Would it be right to go up to Jesus and demand that he provides documented proof of everything he did during his ministry. I doubt very seriously he would even answer such a request. He would just keep going forth doing his Father's will.....NOT YOU WILL.



Question is you're opposed and will continue to have disdain for anyone who has a big type of meeting. Its seems you've automatically chosen to reject it.

Movie length documentary on Todd Bentley:

. Exposes him and his revival for what it actually is. He was commissioned by the foremost leaders of the NAR movement right at the time when he was being unfaithful to his wife. It shows through the lack of discernment of these leaders that they are all frauds.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Please explain how that has ANYTHING to do with what I was talking about.

Avoidance.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Referring to Acts 9:32, I would be like Thomas, I would feel for pulse before and after the resurrection; every time Jesus performed a Mirical he always said it was his Father who did it.

I think there is a difference between miricals and signs and wonders. Satan can perform signs and wonders, I don't think he can raise from the dead. Climate change is a wonder, itis a wonder so few can fool so many for so long.

The reality is that in these days signs, wonders. and miracles are just not happening in spite of all the speech making, promises, and motivational talk.

 

[ARBITER01]

The reality is that in these days signs, wonders. and miracles are just not happening in spite of all the speech making, promises, and motivational talk.

Why was all the miracles happening in the late 1700's with Finney? Why was they happening in the late 1800's and early 1900's with Etter? Why were they happening during the times of Wigglesworth, the Jeffrey Brothers, Lake and others?

Why were they happening then?

 

[Bobber]

Movie length documentary on Todd Bentley:

I'm not watching some long garbage movie about somebody. It seems you paint whole movements with a bad brush. It seems you made it clear. Anybody with a large meeting it seems you're quick to reject which I think is nonsense.

 

[Bobber]

Why was all the miracles happening in the late 1700's with Finney? Why was they happening in the late 1800's and early 1900's with Etter? Why were they happening during the times of Wigglesworth, the Jeffrey Brothers, Lake and others?

Why were they happening then?

That other poster seems confused. Seems they're saying they don't like ministers with large meetings except ones in the 1800s. So this poster thinks there aren't such good ministries possible today?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Why was all the miracles happening in the late 1700's with Finney? Why was they happening in the late 1800's and early 1900's with Etter? Why were they happening during the times of Wigglesworth, the Jeffrey Brothers, Lake and others?

Why were they happening then?

I have no idea. However, when I see Benny Hinn, Todd White, Todd Bentley, Kenneth Copeland, or Bill Johnson provide copies of three medical certificates validating healing of major medical conditions, with before and after Xrays, and doctors' declaration that the healing did not come about by medical intervention, but in his opinion it was a miracle, he believed to have happened as the result of prayer, then I will concede that God does heal through the ministries of these big name fellas.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I'm not watching some long garbage movie about somebody. It seems you paint whole movements with a bad brush. It seems you made it clear. Anybody with a large meeting it seems you're quick to reject which I think is nonsense.

When you have to resort to kicking the player instead of the ball then you have no argument to support any claims of modern signs and wonders actually happening.

 

[ARBITER01]

I have no idea.

I already told you before, people back then were more focused on GOD and His word. There wasn't any internet and inappropriate content sites and whatnot, there was a much greater dependency on GOD for everything.

We have a shared responsibility with GOD on His manifestations down here. If we are not pursuing holiness from Him, we are missing the mark and GOD is unable to witness His power to people.

Take or leave it, but that is the truth.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I already told you before, people back then were more focused on GOD and His word. There wasn't any internet and inappropriate content sites and whatnot, there was a much greater dependency on GOD for everything.

We have a shared responsibility with GOD on His manifestations down here. If we are not pursuing holiness from Him, we are missing the mark and GOD is unable to witness His power to people.

Take or leave it, but that is the truth.

I will wait for the validation medical certificates.

 

[ARBITER01]

I will wait for the validation medical certificates.

You can, but I'm more interested in investing my time with GOD and seeing His outcome happen.

 

[Bobber]

I will wait for the validation medical certificates.

Might I suggest you should rather be saying let's go to the word of God and ask the question is healing for today?

 

[Shemiyah]

Because we don't have any Apostles of Christ in our present day, there is no one who has personally witnessed the resurrection of Christ and who has been personally appointed by Christ Himself, available to lay hands on anyone to enable them to have a signs and wonders ministry.

1 Cor 12:28 - God has appointed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then those who perform miracles, those who have gifts of healing....... These are sequetial, first, second, third, then, then, then........

If you don't have apostles, you don't have a church, and you certainly won't have miracles. The fruit of apostleship is believers working together as one man.

Eph 4:11-16 is what equips the saints for the building up of the body (the church). So your assertion of no apostles insinuates no church.

But of greater importance - to answer your question I ask of you a question. Wouldn't 1 Cor 12:28 answer it? It seems clear that those who perform miracles come after those appointed as a apostles, prophets, and teachers.... So there are those who are teachers, but not necessarily apostles. But apostles are certainly teachers. And likewise some perform miracles, but are not necessarily apostles. But Apostles have all the gifts.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Might I suggest you should rather be saying let's go to the word of God and ask the question is healing for today?

What you don't appear to accept is that there is a major disparity between what the Bible says and the reality of what is happening today. Nowhere does God guarantee healing on demand. Show me any Scriptures that God does guarantee automatic healing as the result of prayer.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

1 Cor 12:28 - God has appointed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then those who perform miracles, those who have gifts of healing....... These are sequetial, first, second, third, then, then, then........

If you don't have apostles, you don't have a church, and you certainly won't have miracles. The fruit of apostleship is believers working together as one man.

Eph 4:11-16 is what equips the saints for the building up of the body (the church). So your assertion of no apostles insinuates no church.

But of greater importance - to answer your question I ask of you a question. Wouldn't 1 Cor 12:28 answer it? It seems clear that those who perform miracles come after those appointed as a apostles, prophets, and teachers.... So there are those who are teachers, but not necessarily apostles. But apostles are certainly teachers. And likewise some perform miracles, but are not necessarily apostles. But Apostles have all the gifts.

But all those who call themselves apostles are self appointed. There is no evidence that any of these apostles are actually appointed by God. Just because the NAR appoints apostles doesn't mean that God has appointed them. If any of these apostles have been appointed by God, let's see the evidence of that.

 

[Bobber]

What you don't appear to accept is that there is a major disparity between what the Bible says and the reality of what is happening today. Nowhere does God guarantee healing on demand. Show me any Scriptures that God does guarantee automatic healing as the result of prayer.

Are you referring to a minister who asks someone that he teaches the WORD to stand upright on their feet?

And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked: 9The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed, 10Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked.
Acts 14:8

 

[Shemiyah]

But all those who call themselves apostles are self appointed. There is no evidence that any of these apostles are actually appointed by God. Just because the NAR appoints apostles doesn't mean that God has appointed them. If any of these apostles have been appointed by God, let's see the evidence of that.

1 Cor 9:2 If to others I am not an apostle, at least I am to you, for you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord. NIV Even though I may not be an apostle to ...

Even then people argued about who was and was not an apostle. The proof of an apostle is not only that they are sent (apostle just means sent one - ambassador - representative) but also the ones they care for. The proof, or fruit of an apostle is the sheep they care for love one another, producing community, the church. With no apostles there is no church. Paul called himself an apostle, and he was not self appointed.

Apostolic ministry is for the service of the church to be built up in love. Not church buildings, but a living demonstration of those who love one another that the world would know (John 13:34-35 and John 17:21-13).