• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

A question about Job.

brinny

everlovin' shiner of light in dark places
Site Supporter
Mar 23, 2004
249,106
114,203
✟1,378,064.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Constitution
Psalm 13 could be a prayer, a crying out, a lamentation of Job in his utter misery. Psalm 13 is a crying out to God in utter desperation. It applies to Job and anyone suffering inexplicably.

Psalms 13 (How Long O Lord) - Brian Doerksen - YouTube
Psalm 13

"(To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.)
How long wilt thou forget me, O LORD? for ever?
how long wilt thou hide thy face from me?
How long shall I take counsel in my soul,
having sorrow in my heart daily?
how long shall mine enemy be exalted over me?
Consider and hear me, O LORD my God:
lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;
Lest mine enemy say, I have prevailed against him;
and those that trouble me rejoice when I am moved.
But I have trusted in thy mercy;
my heart shall rejoice in thy salvation.
I will sing unto the LORD,
because he hath dealt bountifully with me."​
 
Upvote 0

Seeking Him

Regular Member
May 19, 2008
1,561
245
USA
✟17,787.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Psalm 13 could be a prayer, a crying out, a lamentation of Job in his utter misery. Psalm 13 is a crying out to God in utter desperation. It applies to Job and anyone suffering inexplicably.

Psalms 13 (How Long O Lord) - Brian Doerksen - YouTube
Psalm 13

"(To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.)
How long wilt thou forget me, O LORD? for ever?
how long wilt thou hide thy face from me?
How long shall I take counsel in my soul,
having sorrow in my heart daily?
how long shall mine enemy be exalted over me?
Consider and hear me, O LORD my God:
lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;
Lest mine enemy say, I have prevailed against him;
and those that trouble me rejoice when I am moved.
But I have trusted in thy mercy;
my heart shall rejoice in thy salvation.
I will sing unto the LORD,

because he hath dealt bountifully with me."​
Beautiful song Brinny. Really ministered to me. That's how I imagine David singing it. How long, you hide your face, forget me. What utter honesty on David's part. To trust in God's love, when it seems to not be there is hard. To look at the unseen, the eternal. That's trust. Are you love, Lord? Are you good? But do you see me?
Eventually David rejoices! :clap: God is there in the unseen, the eternal. Job experiences the sane thing. :)
 
Upvote 0

brinny

everlovin' shiner of light in dark places
Site Supporter
Mar 23, 2004
249,106
114,203
✟1,378,064.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Constitution
Beautiful song Brinny. Really ministered to me. That's how I imagine David singing it. How long, you hide your face, forget me. What utter honesty on David's part. To trust in God's love, when it seems to not be there is hard. To look at the unseen, the eternal. That's trust. Are you love, Lord? Are you good? But do you see me?
Eventually David rejoices! :clap: God is there in the unseen, the eternal. Job experiences the sane thing. :)

I'm thankful that it ministered to you .....This has been a theme song of my own......it "speaks" to me as well.....

Through this Psalm, maybe God made sure that we would see both David and Job's journeys and their struggles and hardships and angst's and all they endured to encourage US and for us to see how God DOES see us through, even if it looks utterly beyond hope right then.....

It would apply to Elijah as well. Elijah became so depressed and discouraged that he wanted to die. Was Elijah guilty of sinning because he was in despair?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

brinny

everlovin' shiner of light in dark places
Site Supporter
Mar 23, 2004
249,106
114,203
✟1,378,064.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Constitution
When i think of Job and the unspeakable misery he was trapped in, and that there was no escape from it and it worsened, with no end in sight, this song applies....he wanted to just "go home" to be with his God. He KNEW Who His Savior was and that God would "catch" him when he died........but in those agonizing moments, hours, days, weeks, and months when he was pounded and pummeled, this may very well have been his song as well. It has been mine:

Selah - All My Tears - YouTube
All My Tears
(Selah)

When I die, don't cry for me
In my Father's arms, I'll be
And wounds this world left on my soul
Will all be healed and I'll be whole

Sun and moon will be replaced
With the light of Jesus' face
And I will be not be ashamed
For my Savior knows my name

It don't matter where you bury me
I'll be home and I'll be free
It don't matter where I lay
All my tears, be washed away

Gold and silver blind the eye
Temporary riches lie
Come and eat from Heaven's store
Come and drink and thirst no more

'Cos it don't matter where you bury me
I'll be home and I'll be free
It don't matter where I lay
All my tears, be washed away

So weep not from me, my friends
When my time below does end
For my life belongs to Him
Who will raise the dead again

It don't matter where you bury me
'Cos I'll be home and I'll be free
It don't matter where I lay
All my tears, be washed away

It don't matter
It don't matter
It don't matter
It don't matter​
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

brinny

everlovin' shiner of light in dark places
Site Supporter
Mar 23, 2004
249,106
114,203
✟1,378,064.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Constitution
Psalm 82:3-4

"Give justice to the weak
and the fatherless;
maintain the right
of the afflicted
and the destitute.
Rescue the weak
and the needy;
deliver them from
the hand of the wicked.”​

Job fits this description, all of it. Yet it was as if there was NO ONE that even gave this a thought. This IS God's heart towards the downtrodden and suffering, the inconsolable. And if anything, Job was inconsolable. Why? Let's take a closer look at his circumstances, at the condition his flesh was in, the worms all in his sores, all over his body, from head to foot, his inconsolable loss of all ten of his children, all killed suddenly and without warning, and his wife, telling him to just get it over with, to curse God and to just die. (There were other details i won't include here, but amongst these details is that he was spit on and mocked mercilessly as he sat where? Where was it he was sitting? And was he able to sleep, or escape the pain of these worm infested sores as his skin crusted over and oozed? There's more, but i'll leave it here, for now)

And then he has visitors. Good timing, eh?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Setyoufree

Newbie
Mar 2, 2013
4,616
94
Southern USA
✟5,400.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Did God comfort Job in his loss?

What are God's first words to Job:

1] "Man, are you okay? Sorry about the kids...."

or

2] Job 38:1 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said: 2 "Who is this who darkens counsel By words without knowledge? 3 Now prepare yourself like a man; :doh: I will question you, and you shall answer Me
 
Upvote 0

brinny

everlovin' shiner of light in dark places
Site Supporter
Mar 23, 2004
249,106
114,203
✟1,378,064.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Constitution
Psalm 82:3-4

"Give justice to the weak
and the fatherless;
maintain the right
of the afflicted
and the destitute.
Rescue the weak
and the needy;
deliver them from
the hand of the wicked.”

"These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren." ~Proverbs 6:16-19
 
Upvote 0

Setyoufree

Newbie
Mar 2, 2013
4,616
94
Southern USA
✟5,400.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Did God comfort Job in his loss?

What are God's first words to Job:

1] "Man, are you okay? Sorry about the kids...."

or

2] Job 38:1 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said: 2 "Who is this who darkens counsel By words without knowledge? 3 Now prepare yourself like a man; :doh: I will question you, and you shall answer Me

Which? 1 or 2?

Right, 2....
 
Upvote 0

bmjackson

Newbie
Site Supporter
Aug 10, 2007
994
328
UK
✟361,460.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
"Hast thou considered my servant Job?"

Despite great loss, Job did not sin, continuing to praise God. He accepted all things as from the Hand of God, though it was clearly shown that God did not send the evil. It came from Satan, who had no reason to desire to attack a self-righteous man. Instead his wrath is poured out on holy men and women.

Job had learned the secret of overcoming all of our bad circumstances, and was therefore an enemy of Satan. Satan leaves those alone who do his work for him themselves. Job thanked God for his trial even though he knew that God could have stepped in and prevented it, but he did not. Job had learned that the most important thing in life is the state of our spirit man, not material ease, or the love and support of family and friends and that it is through suffering that we grow into spiritual maturity, into the full stature of a man of Christ, who Himself also learned and grew through suffering, proving God's word that all things work tot he good of those who are in Christ.

On reading through the whole of the book of Job, certain verses stand out like beacons, acting as interpretive keys. The first is in the description of Job as a holy man. The book is not about suffering as such, because it does not answer the question "why do the innocent suffer". Rather it is about holiness or sanctification.

Chapter three opens up to show us the reason why we suddenly find Job in total misery and despair, whereas previously he had kept his peace and joy. He speaks of darkness and the shadow of death, the blackness of the day and the solitary night (3.6) wherein "no joyful voice cometh therein" (3.7).

Job is describing the experience of being 'deserted' by God, where the light one has had previously, is taken away and now one finds oneself in darkness with no hearing of God speaking personally to one, leaving the person in utter confusion (10.15).

The thing that Job had dreaded had come upon him, that he no longer dwelt in the Rest that remains for the people of God (Hebrews), nor in the safety of being sheltered under the wing of the Saviour. Job could cope with everything that life could throw at him, so long as he was dwelling close to his Saviour, and resting safely the His arms which would uphold him, but God had consented to Job being placed into the hands of Satan and there he entered into the wilderness experience that His Master would be also required to enter, and also those saints who have consented to follow this pathway to the top of the mountain of dwelling.

Job is now tempted by the voices of 'three friends'. It may be that the three voices are going on inside of Job's head, his human reasoning added to the accusations of Satan, and reasoning against Job's former understanding when he was walking in the light and living a holy life, and thereby having the discernment to see things from God's point of view or having the mind of Christ.

He retains the knowledge throughout and argues back from it, reasoning against the accusations that:

a) even though he admits that he has lost his assurance that he is a holy man in the present time, which confirms that man can walk without sin

b) it was not sin that brought his present circumstances upon him and therefore he was not being punished by God.

God confirms later in the book, when Job is once more able to hear God speak, when God has returned to him, that the voices were wrong. Job had not sinned at the point of the downfall. He did not deserve the departure of God. Accusers of Job are in league with the enemy.

Job reproves the voices and shows they were not of Divine wisdom. He shows that the attitude of Eliphaz is wrong and not coming from the Holy Spirit and love when he says (6.14) that "to him that is afflicted, pity should be shown from his friend. but he forsaketh the fear of the Lord". Eliphaz is not walking in the Spirit.

"Do you imagine to reprove words and the speeches of one who is desperate, which are as wind" (6.26). How true it is that those who are in trauma and despair, find little help and comfort, even in the place where help should be found, in the church, especially for those who are passing through the dark night of the soul, in undeserved sufferings, and find like Jesus "I looked for comforters but there were none". May we be mindful not to worsen those sufferings of such as these by correcting their confused thoughts with 'sound' doctrine without pity or love. Or even worse, accuse Job of self righteousness or some other sin, showing the accusers own self righteousness which will not be overlooked by God.

How often do we "overwhelm the fatherless", digging them into a pit (6.27) instead of encouraging them that the Lord will eventually return to those whom He has seemingly deserted. Job asks, "How long wilt thou not depart from me nor let me alone till I swallow down my spittle?" (7.19). He does not understand that, if he is an unrepentant sinner, as the voices of his accusers claim, why then, when he desires to be restored, and repents there is no no result. "And why dost though not pardon my transgressions and take away mine iniquity?" If his accusers were correct, then repentance would restore him. This is what they do not understand, being without the spiritual wisdom that Job had held and so they put the blame on him.

Bildad in his ignorance posits "If though wouldest seek unto God betimes, and make thy supplication to the Almighty, if thou wert pure and upright, surely now He would awake for thee" (8.5). Here is the voice of temptation seeking to destroy Job's faith. Job asks God "Do not condemn me, show me therefore thou contendest with me" (10.2). Job pleads with God to speak to him and show him where he has fallen and thereby lost the divine presence. He shows his heart is still for God and only longs to be shown his sin if there was one which led to this sorry state of affairs.

The way to the holy of holies, is a strange and narrow path and none but the ones who walk in it can gain any understanding of it. Even when one is walking in absolute obedience to God, there remains a deeper work requiring great suffering which is undeserved whereby making it all the harder to bear or understand and in fact, can very nearly cause one to lose their mind.

Job shows his superior spiritual understanding and heart status by longing to be restored to God and know His presence once more but this deeper work means that he must learn to walk in bare faith alone and his longing for God's presence must be seen as something to let go of. "Oh that I knew where I might find Him that I might come even to His seat" (23.3) is Job's cry which echoes the plea of the Shulamite in Song of Solomon (SoS 3.1). "By night on my bed, I sought Him whom my soul loveth, I sought Him but I found Him not, the seeking bride cried out. I opened to my beloved but my beloved had withdrawn Himself and was gone, my soul faileth when He spake; I sought Him but I could not find Him, I called Him but He gave no answer" (SoS 5.6) and like Job and his 'comforters', "The watchmen that went about the city found me; they smote me; they wounded me; the keepers of the wall took away my veil from me" (SoS 5.7).

Job prophesised his own restoration (23.10) "But He knoweth the way that I take; when He hath tried me I shall come forth as gold" and likewise the Shulamite emerges (SoS 7.55) "Who is this that cometh up from the wilderness leaning upon her beloved. Jealousy is cruel as the grave, the coals therein are coals of fire which hath the most vehement flame". There is no need to fear the purification and cleansing of the Lord however, as the famous hymn neatly puts it:

When through fiery trials thy pathway shall lie
His grace all sufficient shall be thy supply
The flame shall not hurt thee, His only design
Thy dross to consume and they gold to refine.

(How firm a Foundation. Author (attributed to K): George Keith; Author: R. Keen (c. 1787)).

Job had questioned God and had not waited patiently for Him to return. His desire was pure but he had to learn to submit everything, even the good. He was not self-righteous, and in his dispute with the voices that sin had not brought about the calamity, he was correct as God confirmed. But Job now reached the point when he he despaired even of life "For now shall I sleep in the dust and though shall seek me in the morning but I shall not be" (7.20-21). He had reached the crisis point.

Job has much to learn about being a slave to His master, allowing Him to grace with His presence or depart at will. Job questioned God and God returned with question after question which Job could not answer and Job was reduced to a tiny speck in relation to creation. Job abhored himself and was then ready to be restored. He had finally learned that God's ways are above ours and our thoughts are not His thoughts. The thing that Job valued the most, that is the presence of God, must not be held onto any more than the material things in life which Job had already given to God. I will finish with another verse from the hymn quoted earlier:

When through the deep waters He calls thee to go
The rivers of grief shall not thee overflow
For He will be with thee in trouble to bless
And sanctify to thee thy deepest distress.

Brenda Jackson (2014)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Seeking Him

Regular Member
May 19, 2008
1,561
245
USA
✟17,787.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
When i think of Job and the unspeakable misery he was trapped in, and that there was no escape from it and it worsened, with no end in sight, this song applies....he wanted to just "go home" to be with his God. He KNEW Who His Savior was and that God would "catch" him when he died........but in those agonizing moments, hours, days, weeks, and months when he was pounded and pummeled, this may very well have been his song as well. It has been mine:

Selah - All My Tears - YouTube
All My Tears
(Selah)

When I die, don't cry for me
In my Father's arms, I'll be
And wounds this world left on my soul
Will all be healed and I'll be whole

Sun and moon will be replaced
With the light of Jesus' face
And I will be not be ashamed
For my Savior knows my name

It don't matter where you bury me
I'll be home and I'll be free
It don't matter where I lay
All my tears, be washed away

Gold and silver blind the eye
Temporary riches lie
Come and eat from Heaven's store
Come and drink and thirst no more

'Cos it don't matter where you bury me
I'll be home and I'll be free
It don't matter where I lay
All my tears, be washed away

So weep not from me, my friends
When my time below does end
For my life belongs to Him
Who will raise the dead again

It don't matter where you bury me
'Cos I'll be home and I'll be free
It don't matter where I lay
All my tears, be washed away

It don't matter
It don't matter
It don't matter

It don't matter
This song reminds me that sometimes, when we are suffering,we can remember that Paul spoke about the light affliction working eternal glory,though the aff;iction does,'t seem so light, and an eternal glory is something we earthbound creatures can't relate to so much in this veil of tears. :prayer:
Yet Paul says look at the things unseen, they are eternal. Things seen are temporal, by faith we walk not sight,thank God there is eternal glory, and the bliss of Beulah Land someday. Job maybe had thoughts of eternity, and it's mysteries. Paul also, I 'm sure.
We have that building, eternal in heaven, made of gold, silver, sapphire, and rubies, for us afflicted, tossed with tempest and not comforted. Whatever they are,these riches will astound us, while we are being taught of God. Isaiah 54 says.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Setyoufree

Newbie
Mar 2, 2013
4,616
94
Southern USA
✟5,400.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
"Hast thou considered my servant Job?"



Brenda Jackson (2014)

Not one word concerning Elihu.

Not one word addressing Job's repentance -not one!

Why?

A legalistic mindset.....

A legalist would never recognize his own self-righteousness because he can't see it in himself. Hence such cannot see the forest for the trees.
 
Upvote 0

bmjackson

Newbie
Site Supporter
Aug 10, 2007
994
328
UK
✟361,460.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Not one word concerning Elihu.

Not one word addressing Job's repentance -not one!

Why?

A legalistic mindset.....

A legalist would never recognize his own self-righteousness because he can't see it in himself. Hence such cannot see the forest for the trees.

So what is this?

Job was reduced to a tiny speck in relation to creation. Job abhored himself and was then ready to be restored. He had finally learned that God's ways are above ours and our thoughts are not His thoughts
.

And what about God calling him my servant? Or are you again saying that God meant what Job thought of himself and not what was actually the truth? In other words, that God was declaring something which was not true? In other words God lied.

A self righteous man would never be called a servant of God. A self righteous man serves himself.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Setyoufree

Newbie
Mar 2, 2013
4,616
94
Southern USA
✟5,400.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
So what is this?

.

And what about God calling him my servant? Or are you again saying that God meant what Job thought of himself and not what was actually the truth? In other words, that God was declaring something which was not true? In other words God lied.

A self righteous man would never be called a servant of God. A self righteous man serves himself.

This isn't the context of Job. I see no quotes here from Job....Instead I see conjecture and supposition.
 
Upvote 0

Setyoufree

Newbie
Mar 2, 2013
4,616
94
Southern USA
✟5,400.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Job was reduced to a tiny speck in relation to creation. Job abhored himself and was then ready to be restored. He had finally learned that God's ways are above ours and our thoughts are not His thoughts
.

But this isn't from the book of Job. "God's ways are not our ways" is from Isaiah 55:8. Interjecting this verse into Job changes the context and is at best dishonest.

Job didn't repent because he "was reduced to a tiny speck in relation to creation". Job repented because of what Elihu said, "Job opens his mouth...without knowledge he multiplies words." (Job 35:16)

What had Job been stating before Elihu came on the scene?

"I am pure (blameless) and without sin; I am clean and free from guilt." Job 33:9

Did Job speak words "without knowledge"? Yes, but this simply means Job was ignorant concerning his claims to sinlessness.

John states that anyone claiming to be "without sin" is deceived (See 1 John 1:8). So for Job to claim to be blameless and without sin shows that he was a deceived man, but honest in that deception.

Anyway, after Elihu was through with Job, God steps in. Notice God's first words:

Job 38:2 "Who is this that darkens my counsel (from Elihu) with words without knowledge?"

What is Job's reply?

"Then Job answered the Lord and said: .... 3 You asked, 'Who is this who hides counsel without knowledge?' Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand, Things too wonderful for me, which I did not know.... 6 Therefore I abhor myself, And repent in dust and ashes." (Job 42:1-6)

Job repented of his claims to sinlessness. In other words Job realized, through first Elihu and then God Himself, that his claims to righteousness were words spoken without knowledge. That's why he repented.
 
Upvote 0

Setyoufree

Newbie
Mar 2, 2013
4,616
94
Southern USA
✟5,400.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Job: "I am pure (blameless) and without sin; I am clean and free from guilt." Job 33:9

Luke 18:9 To some who were confident of their own righteousnesshttp://www.biblestudytools.com/luke/18.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-8 and looked down on everybody else,http://www.biblestudytools.com/luke/18.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-9 Jesus told this parable: 10 "Two men went up to the temple to pray,http://www.biblestudytools.com/luke/18.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-10 one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood uphttp://www.biblestudytools.com/luke/18.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-11 and prayed abouthttp://www.biblestudytools.com/luke/18.html#fn-descriptionAnchor-a himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men--robbers, evildoers, adulterers--or even like this tax collector. 12 I fasthttp://www.biblestudytools.com/luke/18.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-12 twice a week and give a tenthhttp://www.biblestudytools.com/luke/18.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-13 of all I get.' 13 "But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breasthttp://www.biblestudytools.com/luke/18.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-14 and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.'http://www.biblestudytools.com/luke/18.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-15 14 "I tell you that this man (the tax collector/sinner), rather than the other (the Pharisee), went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."http://www.biblestudytools.com/luke/18.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-16

Job was humbled because he exalted his righteousness, which was self-righteousness.

Did Job learn?

Yes!

Did Job repent?

Yes!

Did God then exalt Job?

Yes:

Job 42:12 The LORD blessed the latter part of Job's life more than the first. He had fourteen thousand sheep, six thousand camels, a thousand yoke of oxen and a thousand donkeys. 13 And he also had seven sons and three daughters. 14 The first daughter he named Jemimah, the second Keziah and the third Keren-Happuch. 15 Nowhere in all the land were there found women as beautiful as Job's daughters, and their father granted them an inheritance along with their brothers. 16 After this, Job lived a hundred and forty years; he saw his children and their children to the fourth generation. 17 And so he died, old and full of years.http://www.biblestudytools.com/job/42.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-26

 
Upvote 0

Setyoufree

Newbie
Mar 2, 2013
4,616
94
Southern USA
✟5,400.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
1 John 1:8 "If we say that we are without sin, we are deceiving ourselves ...."

Romans 3:22 For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God....

So all have sinned in the past and all are, in the present continuous tense, failing to live Christ's sinless life. Hence, as Paul states, "There is none righteous, no, not even one."

Then why did Job claim to be without sin?

Answer: Self-deception.
 
Upvote 0