A question about Job.

[brinny]

"But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him? My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth." ~I John 3:17-18

Job 8.

Bil'dad Speaks.

He begins with basically calling Job, who is a grieving man, a windbag. He continues with blaming Job for his children's deaths. It goes on from there.

Wisdom for the Heart

 

[brinny]

Whatz this song gots to do with studying the book of Job? Haz brinny done lost-ed her mind, mon?

No, i ain't done lost-ed me mind

Listen to this song, and look at the lyrics, and see if yu can make the connection...

How beautiful-Paris Twila - YouTube

How Beautiful.
(Twila Paris)​

How beautiful the hands that served
the wine and the bread
and the sons of the earth.
How beautiful the feet that walked
the long dusty roads
and the hills to the cross.
How beautiful
how beautiful

how beautiful is the body of Christ.

How beautiful the heart that bled
that took all my sin
and bore it instead.
How beautiful the tender eyes
that chose to forgive
and never despise.
How beautiful
how beautiful

how beautiful is the body of Christ.

And as He laid down His life
we offer this sacrifice
that we will live just as he died:
willing to pay the price
willing to pay the price.

How beautiful the radient Bride
who waits for her Groom
with His light in her eyes.
How beautiful when humble hearts give
the fruit of pure lives
so that others may live.
How beautiful
how beautiful

how beautiful is the body of Christ.

How beautiful the feet that bring
the sound of good news
and the love of the King.
How beautiful the hands that serve

the wine and the bread
and the sons of the earth.
How beautiful
how beautiful

how beautiful is the body of Christ.​

 

[brinny]

Yup. A song. The name of the song is "On My Knees". It indicates something that not one of Job's bystanders nor the four men, nor his wife, did. And that is, to get on their knees on behalf of someone suffering beyond description.

Twila Paris/Dennis Jernigan - On My Knees - YouTube

On My Knees
(Dennis Jernigan, Twila Paris)​

When I don't know what I need
I need to get on my knees
When waves of doubt crash over me
I need to get on my knees

On my knees I find refuge
On my knees I find grace
On my knees I can feel You
Like we're meeting face to face
When I don't know what I need
I need to get on my knees

When I don't have strength to stand
I need to reach for Your hand
When life feels like sinking sand
I need to reach for Your hand

In Your hand I find refuge
In Your hand I find grace
In Your hand I can feel You
Like we're meeting face to face
When I don't have strength to stand
I need to reach for Your hand

When life leaves me with no choice
I must listen for Your voice
When lies confuse me with their noise
I must listen for Your voice

In Your voice I find refuge
In Your voice I find grace
In Your voice I can feel You
Like we're meeting face to face
When life leaves me with no choice
I will listen for Your voice

On my knees I find refuge
On my knees I find grace
On my knees I can feel You
Like we're meeting face to face
When I don't know what I need
I need to get on my knees​

 

[Seeking Him]

Whatz this song gots to do with studying the book of Job? Haz brinny done lost-ed her mind, mon?

No, i ain't done lost-ed me mind

Listen to this song, and look at the lyrics, and see if yu can make the connection...

How beautiful-Paris Twila - YouTube

How Beautiful.
(Twila Paris)​

How beautiful the hands that served
the wine and the bread
and the sons of the earth.
How beautiful the feet that walked
the long dusty roads
and the hills to the cross.
How beautiful
how beautiful​

how beautiful is the body of Christ.​

How beautiful the heart that bled
that took all my sin
and bore it instead.
How beautiful the tender eyes
that chose to forgive
and never despise.
How beautiful
how beautiful​

how beautiful is the body of Christ.​

And as He laid down His life
we offer this sacrifice
that we will live just as he died:
willing to pay the price
willing to pay the price.​

How beautiful the radient Bride
who waits for her Groom
with His light in her eyes.
How beautiful when humble hearts give
the fruit of pure lives
so that others may live.
How beautiful
how beautiful​

how beautiful is the body of Christ.​

How beautiful the feet that bring
the sound of good news
and the love of the King.
How beautiful the hands that serve​

the wine and the bread
and the sons of the earth.
How beautiful
how beautiful​

how beautiful is the body of Christ.​

This is a deep question and a good one. What I thought of was how we are all members one of another, if one suffers, all suffers. If we are sensitive to to the body of Christ, we will feel the compassion for each other and be able to intercede for those in pain. We'll be able to lay down our lives in prayer or whatever the person needs, as if it was for ourselves. That's what Job needed, someone to have that compassion for him. What a wonderful song!

 

[brinny]

I am reminded of Abraham and how he "pleaded" with God (prayed fervently) especially on behalf of his nephew Lot when God told him that He was going to destroy the city.....i'm also reminded of other men of God throughout Biblical history who pleaded to God on behalf of others (prayed), Moses for example...and i'm reminded of Job and how did the same...in essence he was "praying" to God on behalf of his children. He was a devout, praying man. He lived and breathed kindness, mercy, and generosity. And in his "fearing the Lord" he was mindful of "pleasing" God because he LOVED Him. He had a heart for GOd that was reflected in what God said about him. And this is why God said that Job's prayer on behalf of these men would be acceptable, and that is because Job was then, and had been a "praying" man.

"The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much." ~James 5:16

It must've been tenfold painful to him as he was grieving over the loss of his ten children, and his condition, which is beyond description as he sat in the ashes of the city dump, that his friends had no compassion for him and wouldn't even pray for him.

 

[brinny]

What in da world has a poem got ta do with studying the book of Job? brinny's done lost it now, eh?

Look closer. Is there a connection?

Friendship

Oh, the comfort --
The inexpressible comfort of feeling
safe with a person,
Having neither to weigh thoughts,
Nor measure words -- but pouring them
All right out -- just as they are --
Chaff and grain together --
Certain that a faithful hand will
Take and sift them --
Keep what is worth keeping --
and with the breath of kindness
Blow the rest away.
~George Eliot

 

[Seeking Him]

What in da world has a poem got ta do with studying the book of Job? brinny's done lost it now, eh?

Look closer. Is there a connection?

Friendship

Oh, the comfort --
The inexpressible comfort of feeling
safe with a person,
Having neither to weigh thoughts,
Nor measure words -- but pouring them
All right out -- just as they are --
Chaff and grain together --
Certain that a faithful hand will
Take and sift them --
Keep what is worth keeping --
and with the breath of kindness
Blow the rest away.
~George Eliot

I see some thoughts here as what Job was experiencing with God. The faithful hand of God sifting through Job's life and keeping what was worth keeping and blowing the rest away. There's some scriptures where wisdom is said to be more precious than rubies and gold, and how the fear of the Lord is the beginning, in Job. I believe God bestowed to Job great spiritual riches. He went through the fire too, and came out as gold.
The scripture I've been meditating on about " perfume and ointment rejoice the heart, so does the sweet counsel of a friend." God's friendship and counsel is like ointment poured forth. Brings healing, enlightenment,wisdom. This certainly was Job's experience at the end, don't you think? Kindness, tendermercy, the end of the Lord's dealings, as James says. What a friend we have, our Jesus!

 

[brinny]

Yes, we can go to God about everything, and sometimes without words because we are beyond words and maybe there are only great sobs that come forth, or we're dragging soooooo much that there is the silence and the shutting down-ness of inexplicable suffering or grief. And yes, just like in that poem, God takes it all, and knows just how to read it, because He reads our hearts, and our hearts speak much louder than words.

There's another aspect to this poem....and that is what an earthly friend does as they reflect the same grace of God to a friend who is suffering, in despair and grief, and sitting in a pit of darkness as hopelessness swirls all about them....the friend brings the light to that darkness, hope and compassion....and they listen, and with the breath of kindness blow the rest away.

Job was compassionate and kind and just. Yet when he was at his most despairing his friends deprived him of the very thing that Job had so freely given. And that is compassion.

 

[Setyoufree]

Job was compassionate and kind and just.

Job was self-righteous. Self-righteous folks only appear to be compassionate and kind and just.....

Everything you state is based on supposition and not the clear word of God.

 

[Setyoufree]

Job was self-righteous. Self-righteous folks only appear to be compassionate and kind and just.....

Everything you state is based on supposition and not the clear word of God.

Self-righteous isn't actually righteousness...it's the sinner trying to produce righteousness, which is impossible. Who said that? Jesus! That's why He states "without Me you can do nothing". Only those who are resting in Christ can actually produce good works motivated by agape. Anyone who brags about her or his blamelessness isn't motivated by agape, but rather a "fair show in the flesh".

You see self-righteousness is always motivated by selfishness. Such works are "to be seen of men" and hence a reward is always the motive. In God's eyes self-righteous works are filthy rags.

 

[brinny]

Self-righteous isn't actually righteousness...it's the sinner trying to produce righteousness, which is impossible. Who said that? Jesus! That's why He states "without Me you can do nothing". Only those who are resting in Christ can actually produce good works motivated by agape. Anyone who brags about her or his blamelessness isn't motivated by agape, but rather a "fair show in the flesh".

You see self-righteousness is always motivated by selfishness. Such works are "to be seen of men" and hence a reward is always the motive. In God's eyes self-righteous works are filthy rags.

Job "feared" God. He eschewed evil. These verses clarify what "fearing God" means:

"The fear of the Lord is to hate evil: pride, arrogance, and the evil way, and the froward mouth do I hate" ~Proverbs 8:13 (froward = perverse, twisted)

"Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the Lord, and depart from evil." ~Proverbs 3:7

"By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the Lord men depart from evil." ~Proverbs 16:6

"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding." ~Proverbs 9:10

Job "feared" God. He was a wise man. He was a praying man. God defined who Job was. What came against him, ALL of it, was without cause. This is established right in the beginning of the book of Job. And it is God Who establishes it.

What i find interesting is the heart of stone heartlessness and lack of compassion these four men had towards a direly suffering Job whose ten children had just died. What this indicates is that they did not know God. None of them did.

 

[brinny]

"Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile." ~Psalm 32:2

 

[Seeking Him]

Job was self-righteous. Self-righteous folks only appear to be compassionate and kind and just.....

Everything you state is based on supposition and not the clear word of God.

This is the clear word of God.
Have you considered my servant Job? There is none on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.
None on earth like him. Wow what an amazing praise coming from God!

 

[Setyoufree]

This is the clear word of God.
Have you considered my servant Job? There is none on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.
None on earth like him. Wow what an amazing praise coming from God!

It isn't so clear when you get past that text you keep repeating....But I see you're stuck on chapter 1 & 2....

When you get past that you'll realize Job wasn't blameless:

Job 35:1 (Elihu to Job) Do you think it is just when you say, "I am righteous before God"? (HCS)

Within the context of Job chapter 35, Elihu says:

"So Job opens his mouth with empty talk; without knowledge he multiplies words." (Job 35:16)

In other words Job is self-deceived in his claims to righteousness.

The question is does God agree with what Elihu stated? Remember Elihu claims to speak in God's behalf (see Job 36:1).

Job 38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the storm. He said: 2 "Who is this that darkens my counsel with words without knowledge?"

This is the first time God speaks directly to Job. So when did God counsel Job?
Answer: Through Elihu!

God is in agreement with Elihu! Both of them tell Job that his claims to righteousness are words spoken without knowledge. What is Job's reply?

"Then Job answered the Lord and said: 4 "Behold, I am vile; What shall I answer You? I lay my hand over my mouth.

What a difference we see in Job now. Before this Job claimed to be righteous before God. He claimed to be without sin. He claimed to be blameless.

But now we see a changed man. We see a humble Job who realizes that his righteousness was really self-righteousness and he realized that in comparison to God's righteousness he was actually "vile".

Not only did Job have a change of heart but he also repented of his self-righteousness:

Job 42:1 Then Job answered the Lord and said: .... 3 You asked, 'Who is this who hides counsel without knowledge?' Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand, Things too wonderful for me, which I did not know.... 6 Therefore I abhor myself, And repent in dust and ashes."

 

[Seeking Him]

It isn't so clear when you get past that text you keep repeating....But I see you're stuck on chapter 1 & 2....

When you get past that you'll realize Job wasn't blameless:

Job 35:1 (Elihu to Job) Do you think it is just when you say, "I am righteous before God"? (HCS)

Within the context of Job chapter 35, Elihu says:

"So Job opens his mouth with empty talk; without knowledge he multiplies words." (Job 35:16)

In other words Job is self-deceived in his claims to righteousness.

The question is does God agree with what Elihu stated? Remember Elihu claims to speak in God's behalf (see Job 36:1).

Job 38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the storm. He said: 2 "Who is this that darkens my counsel with words without knowledge?"

This is the first time God speaks directly to Job. So when did God counsel Job?
Answer: Through Elihu!

God is in agreement with Elihu! Both of them tell Job that his claims to righteousness are words spoken without knowledge. What is Job's reply?

"Then Job answered the Lord and said: 4 "Behold, I am vile; What shall I answer You? I lay my hand over my mouth.

What a difference we see in Job now. Before this Job claimed to be righteous before God. He claimed to be without sin. He claimed to be blameless.

But now we see a changed man. We see a humble Job who realizes that his righteousness was really self-righteousness and he realized that in comparison to God's righteousness he was actually "vile".

Not only did Job have a change of heart but he also repented of his self-righteousness:

Job 42:1 Then Job answered the Lord and said: .... 3 You asked, 'Who is this who hides counsel without knowledge?' Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand, Things too wonderful for me, which I did not know.... 6 Therefore I abhor myself, And repent in dust and ashes."

I don't understand why you're ignoring God's opinion of Job, as recorded in chapter 1 and 2? Didn't God know the future, and the end of Job? Did God later recant his statment about there being none like Job?

 

[Setyoufree]

I don't understand why you're ignoring God's opinion of Job, as recorded in chapter 1 and 2?

If it was God's opinion of Job (instead of Job's view of himself repeated by God to Satan) after Job repented, why didn't God say, "Repent from what? You are blameless Job"?

But God didn't rebuke Job for repenting. He accepted Job's repentance from self-righteousness.

 

[Seeking Him]

If it was God's opinion of Job (instead of Job's view of himself repeated by God to Satan) after Job repented, why didn't God say, "Repent from what? You are blameless Job"?

But God didn't rebuke Job for repenting. He accepted Job's repentance from self-righteousness.

But still, you're not answering my question, nor disproving my point. It was God's unchanging opinion of Job, and he knew the beginning and the end of the story, so again, if you would please answer the question. Why didn't God's omniscience opinion of Job change? Did God recant his view? Thank you.


Job 1:8 And the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil?”

 

[Setyoufree]

Why didn't God's omniscience opinion of Job change? Did God recant his view? Thank you.

You aren't listening.... It was never God's view, but rather Job's view repeated by God. The problem is Job was blind to his self-righteousness. Hence God partially pulled back.

 

[Seeking Him]

You aren't listening.... It was never God's view, but rather Job's view repeated by God. The problem is Job was blind to his self-righteousness. Hence God partially pulled back.

Sorry but you're not listening. The point here is this, you continue to charge Job, like his friends did. However God never changed His opinion of Job. That is the point. Please show me where God changed His view of Job.

 

[Setyoufree]

Sorry but you're not listening. The point here is this, you continue to charge Job, like his friends did.

No, Job's 3 friends condemned him, even though they could find nothing wrong. It was their view of God that got them in trouble. They insisted that God was punishing Job when it was clearly Satan. Read Job chapters 1 & 2.

Elihu, who was sent by God, put his finger on Job's problem. Job was self-righteous! Anyone who would justify his righteousness before a Holy God has to be delusional and caught up in his own righteousness.

However God never changed His opinion of Job. That is the point. Please show me where God changed His view of Job.

No, no, no....It was never God's opinion of Job. That's what you fail to see. God didn't pat Job on the shoulder and tell him how righteous he was. On the contrary, God rebukes Job for his self-righteousness. When Job repents God restores him and then some....