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Ian16

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I thought the "circle of the earth" is not referring to our spherical world, but to a flat circle disk shaped world.

Hi good point. There are five possible interpretation of the particular verse. 1)As you have quoted above. 2) As I quoted above. 3) A ring of oceans surrounding the earth. 4) A vault sky over the earth. 5) A boundary dome shaped between the heavens and the earth. Personally I go with the view that the circle, meaning 'sphere', refers to the earth's circular shape.

I thought the "circle of the earth" is not referring to our spherical world, but to a flat circle disk shaped world.
I thought the "circle of the earth" is not referring to our spherical world, but to a flat circle disk shaped world.
 
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Paul of Eugene OR

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Hi good point. There are five possible interpretation of the particular verse. 1)As you have quoted above. 2) As I quoted above. 3) A ring of oceans surrounding the earth. 4) A vault sky over the earth. 5) A boundary dome shaped between the heavens and the earth. Personally I go with the view that the circle, meaning 'sphere', refers to the earth's circular shape.

So you reflect your modern understanding into getting the message of the prophet. That's actually a normal thing to do when reading the Bible, and the people of Isaiah's day did that as well, only they were thinking of a flat, circular earth with a dome over it. And they thought Isaiah's verse supported that view then.
 
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prodromos

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So you reflect your modern understanding into getting the message of the prophet. That's actually a normal thing to do when reading the Bible, and the people of Isaiah's day did that as well, only they were thinking of a flat, circular earth with a dome over it. And they thought Isaiah's verse supported that view then.
Do you actually have documentation which demonstrates that the Jews of Isaiah's day understood it that way?
 
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Paul of Eugene OR

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Ian16

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So you reflect your modern understanding into getting the message of the prophet. That's actually a normal thing to do when reading the Bible, and the people of Isaiah's day did that as well, only they were thinking of a flat, circular earth with a dome over it. And they thought Isaiah's verse supported that view then.

I fully accept that in Isaiah's day people would have interpreted scripture in this way.
 
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YHWH's Lion

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The problem is that people rather believe in corrupt institutions instead of the word of God. If the word of God said that the world is about 6000 yeas old and science said billions would you believe the bible or science ? if the bible said that a man was murdered and rose from the dead but science says thats impossible would you believe science or the bible? if the bible described a flat geocentric earth but science said a round globe would you believe the bible or science? Don't hate on christians that chose to believe the bible rather than corrupt scientific institutions who spit on Jesus, God and the Bible.
 
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Paul of Eugene OR

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The problem is that people rather believe in corrupt institutions instead of the word of God. If the word of God said that the world is about 6000 yeas old and science said billions would you believe the bible or science ? if the bible said that a man was murdered and rose from the dead but science says thats impossible would you believe science or the bible? if the bible described a flat geocentric earth but science said a round globe would you believe the bible or science? Don't hate on christians that chose to believe the bible rather than corrupt scientific institutions who spit on Jesus, God and the Bible.

Don't hate on Christians that choose to accept the science that shows us how the universe God created is so much more wondrous than was ever realized before.

And please tell me what corrupt scientific institutions you are speaking of that "spit on Jesus, God and the Bible". Since you specified "institutions", don't bother quoting a single person's opinion. Cite an institution's official statement.
 
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SkyWriting

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Does the bible teach a flat earth? After studying this topic I've personally come to the conclusion that yes , the bible does teach a flat, enclosed, geocentric earth. Instead of me posting all the bible verses pro-flat earth, I would like to hear the verses against the flat earth. Or even evidence outside from the bible.

It does describe a flat earth, but for convenience sake only.
Sun-rise, sun-set......same thing.
 
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Paul of Eugene OR

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It does describe a flat earth, but for convenience sake only.
Sun-rise, sun-set......same thing.

Why did the clerical leaders initially oppose the teachings of Galileo and Copernicus?
 
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SkyWriting

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Why did the clerical leaders initially oppose the teachings of Galileo and Copernicus?

All church leaders are suspect. I hold them no higher than a choir member,
some of which have great insights.
 
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Quid est Veritas?

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Why did the clerical leaders initially oppose the teachings of Galileo and Copernicus?

Copernicus was published in 1543, Galileo in 1610. The Inquisition only declared heliocentrism heretical in 1616. Initially, both were received favourably by the Church and especially the Jesuits.
The dispute was actually started by enemies of Galileo who were opposed to his Archimedean views on why objects sink or float as opposed to their Aristotlean views. They invented a heresy, Heliocentrism, which had never existed before then.
Although most educated men ascribed to geocentrism at the time, it was never enshrined as the Church view before 1616 and significant parts of the scientific establishment doubted the complex Ptolemaic orbits.

Even at the trial, Churchman argued for both sides based on scripture. The trial of Galileo had more to do with Academic squabbles and petty revenge than with heliocentrism vs geocentrism.
 
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prodromos

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SkyWriting

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prodromos

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While we're at it, here is a more accurate view of the earth
src.adapt.960.high.corrective_map.1411593200653.jpg
 
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SkyWriting

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While we're at it, here is a more accurate view of the earth

I see, for the sake of convenience, it's flat.

It's kind of hard to publish a not-flat map.
 
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Paul of Eugene OR

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Copernicus was published in 1543, Galileo in 1610. The Inquisition only declared heliocentrism heretical in 1616. Initially, both were received favourably by the Church and especially the Jesuits.
The dispute was actually started by enemies of Galileo who were opposed to his Archimedean views on why objects sink or float as opposed to their Aristotlean views. They invented a heresy, Heliocentrism, which had never existed before then.
Although most educated men ascribed to geocentrism at the time, it was never enshrined as the Church view before 1616 and significant parts of the scientific establishment doubted the complex Ptolemaic orbits.

Even at the trial, Churchman argued for both sides based on scripture. The trial of Galileo had more to do with Academic squabbles and petty revenge than with heliocentrism vs geocentrism.

Galileo was threatened with torture and found guilty of violating the teachings of the church; he had to sign a statement he would never publish that the earth moves again. He was under house arrest after that until his death. Copernicus was deathly afraid of publishing his work and it was not published until he was on his deathbed. His work was placed on the list of forbidden writings. The protestants all followed the same path in opposition to the new findings of science in their day; you saw them protest that the Bible certainly says Joshua commanded the sun to stand still, and not the earth to stop rotating, therefore Copernicus was in error.

Today we are in a transition state on the reaction of the religious folks to the age of the earth and the fact of evolution. Some accept these findings, others deny these findings. Should our Lord tarry, the day will come when most religious people will affirm the bible was really talking about evolution and an older earth all along. But it will require a few funerals to take place.
 
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prodromos

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I see, for the sake of convenience, it's flat.
It also has Australia where it belongs, at the top ;) :p
It's kind of hard to publish a not-flat map.
There is that too. Even for the sake of global navigation, flat maps are still essential. If we become too reliant on GPS we will be totally screwed if someone manages to hack the satellite system.
 
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Quid est Veritas?

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Galileo was threatened with torture and found guilty of violating the teachings of the church; he had to sign a statement he would never publish that the earth moves again. He was under house arrest after that until his death. Copernicus was deathly afraid of publishing his work and it was not published until he was on his deathbed. His work was placed on the list of forbidden writings. The protestants all followed the same path in opposition to the new findings of science in their day; you saw them protest that the Bible certainly says Joshua commanded the sun to stand still, and not the earth to stop rotating, therefore Copernicus was in error.

Today we are in a transition state on the reaction of the religious folks to the age of the earth and the fact of evolution. Some accept these findings, others deny these findings. Should our Lord tarry, the day will come when most religious people will affirm the bible was really talking about evolution and an older earth all along. But it will require a few funerals to take place.

Copernicus was not afriad of publishing his book. It was prefaced by Nicholas von Schunberg, the Archbishop of Capua and dedicated to Pope Paul III. The only reason it was published post-humously is because he had a stroke and died while it was being printed. Only mild controversy followed its publication as such ideas were already known by most educated Europeans as they were aware of Philolaus and Aristarchus in Greek Philosophy.

As to Galileo, Tommaso Caccini and Christoph Schreiner and a couple other of his enemies drafted formal heresy charges and denounced him from the pulpit.
The first Inquest in 1616 decided he was prohibited from teaching Heliocentrism, declared it heretical and ordered the destruction of his and Copernicus' book. That was it.

Galileo's second trial started in 1633 after he continued to teach Heliocentrism. In the intervening period he was heaped with praise and visited the pontiff himself. He then offended Pope Urban VIII by putting the pope's arguments into the mouth of a character called Simplicio (Simpleton) in his book "Dialogue on the two world systems". This resulted in his second trial.
As to being threatened with torture, there are no such things mentioned in contemporary accounts, that is what moderns like to say to show how unreasonable the trial was (It was standard practice to threaten with torture at the time though).
Afterwards he was placed under house arrest in Archbishop Piccolomini's villa, hardly a terrible punishment and under the protection of a powerful Churchman. He then returned to his own villa and was placed under arrest, meaning he needed permission to leave the territory of the Republic of Florence. He continued his research in mechanics and was visited by multiple Heliocentrists and scientists. Hardly someone being persecuted, my friend.

As to people transitioning to believing evolution and the age of the earth, you may be right. But just keep in mind, just because we think it is true, does not mean it is. Most of the middle-ages believed in Geocentrism, while a equally old theory of Heliocentrism was correct. Likewise, Galenic circulation of blood was held as fact for 1300 years. We may be surprised what our descendants will believe, while they will surely shake their heads at how backwards our thought was.
 
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Gideons300

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you don't need a ball earth to have time zones.

Isaiah 40:22

"It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in."
 
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