a flat earth

[Extraneous]

1 Co 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory, 8 which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

9 But as it is written:

“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”

10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.

13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

 

[Hieronymus]

Its as the other poster said, the bible is using poetic and symbolic language, its not meant to speak science but instead spiritual truth.

It's both.
Some is symbolic, but a lot of it is narrative / literal / written history.

 

[Hieronymus]

-------------------

 

[JoeP222w]

Does the bible teach a flat earth? After studying this topic I've personally come to the conclusion that yes , the bible does teach a flat, enclosed, geocentric earth. Instead of me posting all the bible verses pro-flat earth, I would like to hear the verses against the flat earth. Or even evidence outside from the bible.

No, the Bible does not teach a flat earth. Any claims to a "flat earth" passages are often taken out of context, misconstrue poetic language, and simply suppress the truth.

 

[Extraneous]

It's both.
Some is symbolic, but a lot of it is narrative / literal / written history.

Yes, i agree, but its not a science book though.

 

[Hieronymus]

Yes, i agree, but its not a science book though.

I agree, it is not a science book, but that doesn't mean it doesn't describe reality, sometimes with scientific implications.
Popular science often is less scientific than the Word of God.

 

[Extraneous]

I agree, it is not a science book, but that doesn't mean it doesn't describe reality, sometimes with scientific implications.
Popular science often is less scientific than the Word of God.

I agree that science is often fantasy.

 

[Hieronymus]

I agree that science is often fantasy.

It's a religion, a spin off of new age / enlightenment thinking, evolution is the backbone.

 

[timewerx]

Sorry, doesn't work like that. Its like the North Pole. 6 months of night then six months of day on account of the fact that the earth's axis is tilted. You can see the sun go up and down in the sky as the time progresses without ever disappearing in the height of summer. Weird.

Close, but not quite. While the sun goes up and down, it will also slowly fly across the horizon and complete the circuit in 24 hours during the summer in the south pole.

If you got a house in there or a tent with windows on all four sides, the sun will fly across all windows on all four sides during the summer!

The farthest south I've been is New Zealand and the sun does go around even in that place and could go over across three corners of the house!

Great climate btw in NZ in the northern parts. Summers are cool, cool enough not to use AC, and winters are mild, always above freezing. In the Northern Hemisphere and further up, you have extreme temperature variation - sweltering heat in the summer and bitter cold in the winter!

The unique difference in climate in the Northern Hemisphere vs Southern Hemisphere is one undeniable proof our planet is an oblate spheroid!

 

[RedPonyDriver]

Stop reading Discworld novels...Sir Terry Pratchett really DID make that up...don't take it as scientific fact!

 

[1213]

Does the bible teach a flat earth?

Maybe flat earth, because according to OT earth meant dry land, which can mean continent. Continents are relatively flat, but also curved. However, I don’t think there is any scripture in the Bible that says “Earth is flat”, or that “planet is flat”.

 

[LordDuncanBurneWilke]

One doesn't need to go to space to see the earth is not flat. Just ask an airline pilot or a freighter captain.

 

[Calminian]

Does the bible teach a flat earth? After studying this topic I've personally come to the conclusion that yes , the bible does teach a flat, enclosed, geocentric earth. Instead of me posting all the bible verses pro-flat earth, I would like to hear the verses against the flat earth. Or even evidence outside from the bible.

Before I give any evidence, I'd like to hear evidence against my empty assertion. LOL! Interesting tactic.

 

[Calminian]

https://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/febible.htm
Here are all the bible verses describing the shape of the earth.

Pick your top 3. I'll convince you you can trust your Bible again in just a couple replies.

 

[The Portuguese Baptist]

Does the bible teach a flat earth? After studying this topic I've personally come to the conclusion that yes , the bible does teach a flat, enclosed, geocentric earth. Instead of me posting all the bible verses pro-flat earth, I would like to hear the verses against the flat earth. Or even evidence outside from the bible.

There is a massive load of extra-biblical evidence for a round Earth:

1. Pictures from space. Countless pictures have been taken from space, but not a single one shows a flat Earth. Do you really think that all photographs have really been photoshopped?
2. Astronaut testimony. Not a single astronaut has ever yet come out and said, ‘Hey guys! I saw it! The Earth really is flat! I myself did not even believe in it until I saw it with my own eyes! You guys are all being brainwashed!’ And thousands have gone to space! Do you really think that not a single one would be honest?
3. Combining points number 1 and 2. I can make the accusation even worse by stating that no astronaut has ever shown us a picture of a flat Earth.
4. Lunar eclipses. When a lunar eclipse occurs, it projects a circular shadow onto the Moon, which is caused by the Earth. If the flat-Earth model were accurate, not only would it be extremely unlikely that every single eclipse would show a circular shadow, but also lunar eclipses would be impossible to exist, because the Sun and the Moon would both be on the same side of the Earth. So lunar eclipse contradict the flat-Earth model.
5. Ocean tides. With a flat Earth, there is no possible explanation for the fact that, at any given moment, the ocean tides are high on two opposite longitudes and low on the longitudes that form 90º with them, yielding a full change in tides, in any given place, every 6 hours.
6. Day and night. If the Earth is a flat disc, then the entire Earth is always illuminated. The only possible way that night would come would be if any hills are blocking the Sun. However, this does not explain the existence of night in the plain or out in the sea; night could not exist in those places.
7. Sunrise and sunset. The same problem applies here. If the Sun never goes below the disc of the Earth, then the observation of a sunrise and sunset over the sea would remain unexplained. Same goes for moonrise and moonset.
8. Moon phases. There is no way that different Moon phases would occur without the pattern predicted by the heliocentric model. I mean, unless the Moon would actually rise above Sun level for the Full Moon and descend below Sun level for the New Moon. However, if that were to happen, we would see the Moon getting smaller in the Full Moon and larger in the New Moon, which is not observed.
9. Orbits around the Earth. This can apply to Earth's natural satellite — the Moon —, man-made satellites, or even the Sun, as your model proposes. Without the near-circular orbits predicted by the heliocentric model, the Earth's gravity would pull the Sun and the Moon to the Earth, causing them to fall just like anything on Earth also falls.
10. Gravity always pulls you perpendicularly. If the Earth were flat and you lived away from the North Pole, you would feel gravity pulling you to the centre of the Earth. However, since the Earth's centre would be under the North Pole, you would constantly be pulled North, obliquely to the ground — and not perpendicularly, as it happens.
11. Stars. If you go to the Southern Hemisphere, you are sure to not find the famous Polar Star in the night sky, which always points North. Rather, you will find many other stars unseen in the Northern Hemisphere. This would make no sense if the Earth were flat.
12. Ships' bottom disappears first. If you watch a ship sailing out into the sea, you will see that its bottom disappears before its top, a consequence of the Earth's curvature. This would not make sense if the Earth were flat.
13. Circumnavigation. One of the best ways to demonstrate that the Earth is round is just to keep going in the same direction and find yourself in the same place.
14. The edge of the Earth. If the Earth is really flat, then where is the edge, and why has no-one shown a single picture of it?

There you go! Fourteen pieces of evidence that the Earth is round! Now, in order to keep on believing in your flat-Earth nonsense, you will have to show flaws with all my fourteen arguments, and present yourself some evidence that the Earth is flat.

 

[RedPonyDriver]

There you go! Fourteen pieces of evidence that the Earth is round! Now, in order to keep on believing in your flat-Earth nonsense, you will have to show flaws with all my fourteen arguments, and present yourself some evidence that the Earth is flat.

All proofs must be from REAL scientists, not the bible. The bible is NOT a science text book.

 

[Calminian]

Maybe flat earth, because according to OT earth meant dry land, which can mean continent. Continents are relatively flat, but also curved. However, I don’t think there is any scripture in the Bible that says “Earth is flat”, or that “planet is flat”.

Indeed. erets means dry land. It's defined in the 1st chapter of Genesis. "and He called the dry land, earth." Also, earth and sea are always distinct in Scripture. "in the beginning God made the heavens and the earth and the sea and all that is in them." Notice you have the earth and sea. That's because the ancient reader understood this word as meaning land.

The ends of the earth merely means the lands end. It's referring to coastlines where the earth ends and the sea begins.

Is the earth (erets) flat? Of course not. It's got lots of mountains and valleys.

This is the mistake almost all Bible skeptics makes. They conflate modern definitions with ancient definitions. They don't look at the context of the words they're citing. German guy likely believes what he's saying, but hasn't done any research on the biblical term "earth." He's merely repeating arguments from equally uninformed skeptics.

 

[dougangel]

Ancient Near East

Imago Mundi Babylonian map, the oldest known world map, 6th century BC Babylonia
In early Egyptian[6] and Mesopotamian thought the world was portrayed as a flat disk floating in the ocean. A similar model is found in the Homeric account of the 8th century BC in which "Okeanos, the personified body of water surrounding the circular surface of the Earth, is the begetter of all life and possibly of all gods."[7] The Israelites likely had a similar cosmology, with the earth as a flat disc floating on water beneath an arced firmament separating it from the heavens.[8]

The Pyramid Texts and Coffin Texts reveal that the ancient Egyptians believed Nun (the Ocean) was a circular body surrounding nbwt (a term meaning "dry lands" or "Islands"), and therefore believed in a similar Ancient Near Eastern circular earth cosmography surrounded by water.

Ancient Mediterranean

Poets

Both Homer and Hesiod[13] described a flat disc cosmography on the Shield of Achilles.[14][15] This poetic tradition of an earth-encircling (gaiaokhos) sea (Oceanus) and a flat disc also appears in Stasinus of Cyprus,[16] Mimnermus,[17] Aeschylus,[18] and Apollonius Rhodius.[19]

Homer's description of the flat disc cosmography on the shield of Achilles with the encircling ocean is repeated far later in Quintus Smyrnaeus' Posthomerica (4th century AD), which continues the narration of the Trojan War.[20]

Philosophers

Possible rendering of Anaximander's world map[21]
Several pre-Socratic philosophers believed that the world was flat: Thales (c. 550 BC) according to several sources,[22] and Leucippus (c. 440 BC) and Democritus (c. 460 – 370 BC) according to Aristotle.[23][24][25]

Thales thought the earth floated in water like a log.[26] It has been argued, however, that Thales actually believed in a round Earth.[27][28] Anaximander (c. 550 BC) believed the Earth was a short cylinder with a flat, circular top that remained stable because it was the same distance from all things.[29][30] Anaximenes of Miletus believed that "the earth is flat and rides on air; in the same way the sun and the moon and the other heavenly bodies, which are all fiery, ride the air because of their flatness."[31] Xenophanes of Colophon (c. 500 BC) thought that the Earth was flat, with its upper side touching the air, and the lower side extending without limit.[32]

Belief in a flat Earth continued into the 5th century BC. Anaxagoras (c. 450 BC) agreed that the Earth was flat,[33] and his pupil Archelaus believed that the flat Earth was depressed in the middle like a saucer, to allow for the fact that the Sun does not rise and set at the same time for everyone.[34]

Historians

Hecataeus of Miletus believed the earth was flat and surrounded by water.[35] Herodotus in his Histories ridiculed the belief that water encircled the world,[36] yet most classicists agree he still believed the earth was flat because of his descriptions of literal "ends" or "edges" of the earth.[37]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth

The ancient known world thought the world was flat by the copies of writings we have. It would not of been common knowledge in the known world before a few decades BC. Although the Greeks knew the world was a sphere by the 6 century BC and was wide spread knowledge to them by the 3 century BC

 

[Calminian]

Ancient Near East

Imago Mundi Babylonian map, the oldest known world map, 6th century BC Babylonia
In early Egyptian[6] and Mesopotamian thought the world was portrayed as a flat disk floating in the ocean. A similar model is found in the Homeric account of the 8th century BC in which "Okeanos, the personified body of water surrounding the circular surface of the Earth, is the begetter of all life and possibly of all gods."[7] The Israelites likely had a similar cosmology, with the earth as a flat disc floating on water beneath an arced firmament separating it from the heavens.[8]

The Pyramid Texts and Coffin Texts reveal that the ancient Egyptians believed Nun (the Ocean) was a circular body surrounding nbwt (a term meaning "dry lands" or "Islands"), and therefore believed in a similar Ancient Near Eastern circular earth cosmography surrounded by water.

Ancient Mediterranean

Poets

Both Homer and Hesiod[13] described a flat disc cosmography on the Shield of Achilles.[14][15] This poetic tradition of an earth-encircling (gaiaokhos) sea (Oceanus) and a flat disc also appears in Stasinus of Cyprus,[16] Mimnermus,[17] Aeschylus,[18] and Apollonius Rhodius.[19]

Homer's description of the flat disc cosmography on the shield of Achilles with the encircling ocean is repeated far later in Quintus Smyrnaeus' Posthomerica (4th century AD), which continues the narration of the Trojan War.[20]

Philosophers

Possible rendering of Anaximander's world map[21]
Several pre-Socratic philosophers believed that the world was flat: Thales (c. 550 BC) according to several sources,[22] and Leucippus (c. 440 BC) and Democritus (c. 460 – 370 BC) according to Aristotle.[23][24][25]

Thales thought the earth floated in water like a log.[26] It has been argued, however, that Thales actually believed in a round Earth.[27][28] Anaximander (c. 550 BC) believed the Earth was a short cylinder with a flat, circular top that remained stable because it was the same distance from all things.[29][30] Anaximenes of Miletus believed that "the earth is flat and rides on air; in the same way the sun and the moon and the other heavenly bodies, which are all fiery, ride the air because of their flatness."[31] Xenophanes of Colophon (c. 500 BC) thought that the Earth was flat, with its upper side touching the air, and the lower side extending without limit.[32]

Belief in a flat Earth continued into the 5th century BC. Anaxagoras (c. 450 BC) agreed that the Earth was flat,[33] and his pupil Archelaus believed that the flat Earth was depressed in the middle like a saucer, to allow for the fact that the Sun does not rise and set at the same time for everyone.[34]

Historians

Hecataeus of Miletus believed the earth was flat and surrounded by water.[35] Herodotus in his Histories ridiculed the belief that water encircled the world,[36] yet most classicists agree he still believed the earth was flat because of his descriptions of literal "ends" or "edges" of the earth.[37]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth

The ancient known world thought the world was flat by the copies of writings we have. It would not of been common knowledge in the known world before a few decades BC. Although the Greeks knew the world was a sphere by the 6 century BC and was wide spread knowledge to them by the 3 century BC

See my post right above this one. Notice also that dougangel, also, has no idea what the biblical word "earth" means. He just wasted all that time citing sources without even know the simple definition of erets, given by God himself.

This is the norm for Bible skeptics. They're always learning, never understanding.

 

[ViaCrucis]

You explain it, then? If it's day here, and night there, how does that work if the world's flat?

Well, you see, the night dragon chases the sun chariot across the sky during the day and catches it at dusk, the entire night the sun is trying to escape the night dragon and finally wins by dawn.

-CryptoLutheran