A few questions for Protestants

[YeshuaFan]

Actually not. The preceding verses are all about Peter's view of Christ, and Christ responds to him with the famous "keys" statement we were discussing.

Whatever the "Keys" were that Jesus mentioned there, could not be the Church of Rome, as that did not even exist until centuries later!

 

[Fidelibus]

Lol. Have you not been following along/

Ah.... yeah, but you do make it a challenge when you keep responding with bewildered posts. Like posting the Facebook page of a Protestant denomination founded by some fella in 1886. And when asked if you are a member of this church, you answer with why does it matter when this church was founded, and that you are "not a member", but you attend "a church" from this denomination, Then, in the very next sentence you say, "I'm not about denominations". That's flip-flopping more than a freshly caught Rainbow Trout from a high mountain lake!

Because I just posted the denomination I attend.

Here it is again, you say that you're "not about denominations" and go on to say here, "Because I just posted the denomination I attend." Which in reality, you did not, all you posted was...."I attend a church from this denomination", which in Protestantism could mean one of the many thousands of other Protestant denominations.

However, for the sake of argument, let's take this church for example that you posted their facebook page, this "Church of God" denomination that was founded by a mere man in 1886, where you stated, "I attend a church from this denomination." So, is this denomination you are a member of the church that splintered from the original church founded in 1886? Or are you a member of the church that splintered from that church, that splintered from that church, that splintered from that church, or on, and on and on?

This example is a common occurrence among all the different flavors of Protestantism and non-denominational churches and sects. The reason being, somebody or group of somebody's in any certain Protestant church or sect might disagree with the direction, teachings or interpretation of scripture their church/pastor is teaching/preaching and leaves that church to start a new church that is more in-line with their beliefs. Until somebody or group of somebody's in that church/sect disagrees with the teachings or interpretation of scripture their church/pastor is teaching/preaching and leaves that church to start a new church that is more in-line with their beliefs, and on, and on and on. The irony of all these splintered churches and sects is, that they all claim to be guided by the Holy Spirit!

Then you say on post #613, " I just want to be in a church that lifts up Jesus and loves people and spreads the gospel." So, how are you so sure the church/denomination you are a member of is correctly teaching/interpreting scripture and spreading the correct interpretation of the Gospels then some church or sect that also claims to be guided by the Holy Spirit that disagree with your church/denomination?

You know renniks, it is very common these days to get a variety of answers when asking Protestants if their denomination holds the truth over other Protestant denominations. I've heard some Protestants claim, "their denomination is not 100% correct". So, I ask you, would it be your belief that your denomination holds the truth over other Protestant denominations/sects and is 100% correct or not 100%, correct?

I'm not in the habit of posting more personal information on the internet.

Okay.

Have a Blessed Day!

 

[Albion]

Whatever the "Keys" were that Jesus mentioned there, could not be the Church of Rome, as that did not even exist until centuries later!

Well, there was a church at Rome in the first century and it did serve the area surrounding the city. But that aside, the Roman Catholic Church you are referring to claims that it was authorized by Christ when speaking to Peter as recorded in this passage from Scripture. That's why we're talking about it in that context here, not that it's a valid claim.

 

[Albion]

Here it is again, you say that you're "not about denominations" and go on to say here, "Because I just posted the denomination I attend." Which in reality, you did not, all you posted was...."I attend a church from this denomination", which in Protestantism could mean one of the many thousands of other Protestant denominations.

So our friend prefers not to be a member but he identified the church he attends as being a congregation of the Church of God, which is one of the largest and best known of the Pentecostal church bodies. There's nothing unusual, contradictory, or elusive about that.

 

[renniks]

Ah.... yeah, but you do make it a challenge when you keep responding with bewildered posts. Like posting the Facebook page of a Protestant denomination founded by some fella in 1886. And when asked if you are a member of this church, you answer with why does it matter when this church was founded, and that you are "not a member", but you attend "a church" from this denomination, Then, in the very next sentence you say, "I'm not about denominations". That's flip-flopping more than a freshly caught Rainbow Trout from a high mountain lake!

I don't see what you find inconsistent about responding to your inquiry and then explaining that denomination really isn't important.

 

[renniks]

You know renniks, it is very common these days to get a variety of answers when asking Protestants if their denomination holds the truth over other Protestant denominations. I've heard some Protestants claim, "their denomination is not 100% correct". So, I ask you, would it be your belief that your denomination holds the truth over other Protestant denominations/sects and is 100% correct or not 100%, correct?

Already answered. No denomination is 100 percent correct. You are trying to split hairs as if your church hasn't flip flopped about over the centurys in what they supported. Do we really have to bring up all the sins of the RCC?

 

[YeshuaFan]

Well, there was a church at Rome in the first century and it did serve the area surrounding the city. But that aside, the Roman Catholic Church you are referring to claims that it was authorized by Christ when speaking to Peter as recorded in this passage from Scripture. That's why we're talking about it in that context here, not that it's a valid claim.

was speaking to the Church of Rome as in Roman Catholic Church!

 

[Albion]

was speaking to the Church of Rome as in Roman Catholic Church!

No. For one thing, there was a lot to come before Peter even reached Rome. He first was to give that miraculous speech on Pentecost that led to the first real wave of converts to the new church, he was to be an important part of the council at Jerusalem hosted by James, and Peter later on was to be the bishop of Antioch before ever doing anything in Rome.

 

[Valletta]

was speaking to the Church of Rome as in Roman Catholic Church!

There is no "Roman Catholic Church," my Church is called the Catholic Church.

 

[Albion]

There is no "Roman Catholic Church," my Church is called the Catholic Church.

Then I wonder who runs that big church in my city which has the "ST. MARY'S ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH" sign out front?

 

[eleos1954]

“Was anything withheld from the knowledge of Peter, who is called ‘the rock on which the Church would be built’ [Matt. 16:18] with the power of ‘loosing and binding in heaven and on earth’ [Matt. 16:19]?” (Demurrer Against the Heretics 22 [A.D. 200]).

Hmmm, who do I believe? A self proclaimed doctor of something, some recent innovation from protestants, or a Father of the Church.

This is the correct use of the Fathers. They are used to show that the early Church believed then what she teaches now.

with the power of ‘loosing and binding in heaven and on earth’ [Matt. 16:19]?” (

What does this mean? What is this claimed power?

 

[Albion]

Hmmm, who do I believe? A self proclaimed doctor of something, some recent innovation from protestants, or a Father of the Church.

If it's the Fathers of the Church, your studies will be led by Eastern Orthodox Christians.

 

[timothyu]

Peter later on was to be the bishop of Antioch before ever doing anything in Rome.

Right, in the same area Constantine built his empire after defeating Rome and the western empire. An area of much more importance in Gentile Christianity than Rome (which Peter called Babylon).

 

[Valletta]

What does this mean? What is this claimed power?

John 20:21-23
21 Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, … RSVCE

 

[eleos1954]

John 20:21-23
21 Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, … RSVCE

well then .... the power of the Holy Spirit was not just for Peter.

 

[Valletta]

well then .... the power of the Holy Spirit was not just for Peter.

The power to forgive sins was eventually given to all of the Apostles. Simon was renamed as Rock (Peter) and Jesus said he would build His Church upon Rock. Only Peter, not any of the other Apostles, was given the keys to the kingdom.

 

[Fidelibus]

So our friend prefers not to be a member but he identified the church he attends as being a congregation of the Church of God, which is one of the largest and best known of the Pentecostal church bodies. There's nothing unusual, contradictory, or elusive about that.

Really? What say we put a little hypothetical scenario to test.

So, let's say you asked a stranger you happened to be conversing with about different churches and faiths, and it went something like this: "Hey my friend, could I ask what church or denomination you are a member of"? And this person took out their phone and without saying a word showed you a Facebook page of a Baptist church. What would be your first reaction? Would not your response be.."Oh, so you are a member of this church you are showing me their Facebook site? And they responded, "I'm not a member." Again, would not your response be. "Oh, this is not the church or denomination you belong too?" And this person answered, " I attend a church from this denomination, but I'm not about denominations."

So, you would find nothing unusual, contradictory, or elusive about this person's answers to you? Interesting!

You also stated the "Church of God, which is one of the largest and best known of the Pentecostal church bodies." ONE of the largest and best known of the Pentecostal church bodies? " Bodies as in many? Does this "Church of God" or "Pentecostal bodies" have a central authority where all these other Pentecostal church bodies can turn to in case of disputes/arguments involving scripture interpretation or matters of faith? If so, where is it? Who is it? And how did they get this authority? If not, how would all these "Bodies" settle their disputes/arguments involving scripture interpretation or matters of faith?

Have a Blessed Day!

 

[Fidelibus]

Already answered.

Mmmm.. not really.

No denomination is 100 percent correct.

Thats not what I asked. What I asked is, do you believe "YOUR" denomination holds the truth over other Protestant denominations/sects 100%? Anyhoo, by your answer here, your belief is a big "No"!! So, for you to claim that you are saying that the church you belong to is not the true church. So, I have to ask, why are you a part of that church denomination? If your denomination is not the true Church as Christ gave to us, which denomination IS the true Church, the pillar of truth? We know it must exist somewhere because Christ promised us it would always exist.

Right about now renniks, you are probably thinking (like most Protestant and non-denominational sola scriptura believers) about answering that the true Church is invisible church. There are problems though with this kind of thinking. Nowhere in Scripture will it ever be found that the Church is invisible. Rather references in Scripture are everywhere which point to a visible Church. How are the following verses to be understood of an invisible Church?

"And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican" Matt 18:17.

"Take heed to yourselves, and to the whole flock, wherein the Holy Ghost hath placed you bishops, to rule the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood." Acts 20:28

"But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth" 1 Tim 3:15

"And sending from Miletus to Ephesus, he called the ancients of the church" Acts 20:17

"And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received by the church, and by the apostles and ancients, declaring how great things God had done with them" Acts 15:4

"And when they had ordained to them priests in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, in whom they believed" Acts 14:22

"And when they were come, and had assembled the church, they related what great things God had done with them, and how he had opened the door of faith to the Gentiles" Acts 14:26

"And going down to Caesarea, he went up to Jerusalem, and saluted the church, and so came down to Antioch" Acts 18:22.

You are trying to split hairs as if your church hasn't flip flopped about over the centurys in what they supported. Do we really have to bring up all the sins of the RCC?

Irrelevant and off topic. If you were to start that thread I suggested, I would be more than happy to discuss and dispel your errors and myths regarding the Catholic Church.

Have a Blessed Day!

 

[Fidelibus]

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It has been quite interesting following some of our Protestant posters conversing here as of late on the past few pages of this thread regarding Matt 16:19, (" I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven.( "Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”) and 1 Tim. 3:15, (But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.) What is the true meaning of "the Way" etc.

What I find interesting is that these posters are self-proclaimed sola scripturists, but cannot seem to agree on the meanings or interpretations of these passages. Now I could understand the Catholic/Protestant different understanding/ interpretation of these passages but Protestants disagreeing with Protestants on these passages? I find this very interesting!

So, being this is a thread about asking Protestant/non-denominationally believers questions, I'd like to ask these posters to please explain to us why? Why, if you are studying, learning believing from the same bible, are you have such different interpretations and beliefs in these scripture passages?

When you all study, read, and learn from the bible, are you not doing so under the guidance of the Holy Spirit? When you all post your interpretations, beliefs, and understandings of scripture, is it your belief you are doing so under the guidance and truth from the Holy Spirit? Now, I am sure you all would agree there is no way the Holy Spirit would teach you error, right? Well, there is only one truth.

So, which one of you has the truth, and which of you do not? Is it you that has the truth Albion? Or is it you timothyu that has the truth? Hmm.... maybe its you pescador that has the truth? Could it be YeshuaFan has the truth? If you all can't agree, you all cannot be correct in your understanding, belief, and interpretation.

So.....the big question is to you all, if you can't agree which one of you is correct, and the others are not, to whom or what can you turn to make that decision? One thing for sure, it cannot be the bible because that is what you are disagreeing about! Quite the conundrum I must say!

Have a Blessed Day!

 

[concretecamper]

If it's the Fathers of the Church, your studies will be led by Eastern Orthodox Christians.

We have a common ancestory. So, I'd follow them before Henry VIII'S Church and its VAST 500 year history.