A few questions for Protestants

[Fidelibus]

Under the Protestant/Sola Scriptura (the Bible alone) theological system, is it your belief, and would you agree, there exists no person or no institution that can infallibly decide what is true and what is false for Christians when it comes to matters of faith and/or morals?

If you happen to answer yes to this question, my next question would be.... under this theological system, would you agree there is no sure way you could have absolute assurance of anything you believe being true? In other words, there is no way of knowing the truth?

Yet, Jesus says, "Know the truth and the truth will set make you free." (John 8:32)

So, let me leave you with this last question: For a Christian, what is the pillar and ground of the truth - i.e., the upholder and foundation of the truth? Is it the Bible? Yes or no?

Have a Blessed day!

 

[Saucy]

The bible is certainly the guide and we all have the Holy Spirit within us to help us along. That's why He was sent. We have elders and pastors who are to uphold the teachings in the bible, but no, they aren't infallible. No one is infallible other than God. We're all doing our best. I do have the assurance to what the bible says is true. That is the word of God. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, so we trust His words and what He set forward for us to do (The Great Commission).

 

[Fidelibus]

The bible is certainly the guide and we all have the Holy Spirit within us to help us along. That's why He was sent. We have elders and pastors who are to uphold the teachings in the bible, but no, they aren't infallible. No one is infallible other than God. We're all doing our best. I do have the assurance to what the bible says is true. That is the word of God. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, so we trust His words and what He set forward for us to do (The Great Commission).

Thank you Saucy for your response. However, I couldn't help but notice you didn't answer my final question. If you will, I will repost it again for your response.

"For a Christian, what is the pillar and ground of the truth - i.e., the upholder and foundation of the truth? Is it the Bible? Yes or no? "

I feel that the answer to this question is very significant to this thread. So, if you would please answer this question, I would gladly address the rest of your post.

Have a Blessed day

 

[Saucy]

Thank you Saucy for your response. However, I couldn't help but notice you didn't answer my final question. If you will, I will repost it again for your response.



I feel that the answer to this question is very significant to this thread. So, if you would please answer this question, I would gladly address the rest of your post.

Have a Blessed day

"Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, so we trust His words and what He set forward for us to do (The Great Commission)." This was pretty much the answer to that. The bible, the words of Jesus, is the pillar of our truth and faith. It's how we live and how we're guided.

 

[BobRyan]

Each of us stands alone before God at the Judgment seat of Christ:
no pastor/priest/church-council will stand-in our place.

2 Cor 5:10
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

So then:
========================================
God Himself is "a God of Truth"

Deut 32:

3 For I proclaim the name of the Lord:
Ascribe greatness to our God.
4 He is the Rock, His work is perfect;
For all His ways are justice,
A God of truth and without injustice;
Righteous and upright is He.

He made Himself known to us through Christ (God the Son)

John 1:
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
... 18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

Our source of Truth is Christ

John 14:6 "the WAY the Truth and the life"

And therefore the Holy Spirit
John 16 "The Spirit of TRUTH will guide you into all Truth"

1 John 5:6 This is the One who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood. It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.

1 John 2:27 As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.

===========================================
Our infallible standard of truth is the Word of God. And we measure all doctrine by that standard:

Acts 17:11 "they studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul - WERE SO"

2 Tim 3:16 "ALL scripture is given by inspiration from God AND is to be used for doctrine AND correction"

Gal 1:6-9 "if WE (Apostles) or an angel from heaven brings to you a gospel other than what you have already received - let him be accursed!"

The Holy Spirit gave us Scripture

2 Pet 1: 20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, 21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. (NKJV)

20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, 21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God. (NASB)

====================

Your argument in the OP is that with only God and His Word as our source of Truth - would we not then agree that we could never have any real assurance of what Truth is - and our answer is "no we do not agree".

And of course the whole argument in the "protesting Catholics" history of the reformation is - "yes" we do have assurance of pure doctrine by relying on God alone, scripture alone. And we join in fellowship with like-minded Christians in that regard - all benefiting from the gifts God has given to the "body of Christ" via the Holy Spirit.

Still it does not change the fact that each one stands alone before at that judgment seat - no historic flawed council will be there taking our place.

 

[BobRyan]

Christ models the example of condemning man-made tradition "sola scriptura".

Mark 7:6-13
6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

============================


1 Cor 3:11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Rev 3:12 "He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name."

Heb 1:
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the Word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

========================

Which is why the magesterium of the "one true nation church" in Christ's day - started by God at Sinai - can be "slam hammered" sola-scriptura by Christ in Mark 7:6-13 (as just pointed out) -- when its traditions and doctrines stray from conforming to the Word of God.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Under the Protestant/Sola Scriptura (the Bible alone) theological system, is it your belief, and would you agree, there exists no person or no institution that can infallibly decide what is true and what is false for Christians when it comes to matters of faith and/or morals?

Only speaking for myself here: I believe there is a place for theologians, Bible historians, etc. God did not create these people to confuse everyone about what the Bible says; He made their careers. But that is, of course, only true if they are Christian Bible scholars. To trust these people as much as our pastors, I need to know they are not Jews, Mormons, Jehovah's witnesses, or people who are just fascinated by the Bible and only care about knowledge. If I know the source is a pastor or has a seminary degree, I can trust the information is correct. However, I would only use it for context in Bible studies because all the mistakes in the Bible come from translation difficulties.

To answer your last question:

Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Light. No one comes to the Father except through Me." - John 14:6

Not A way and A truth and A light, but THE way, truth, and light. Sola Scriptura.

 

[topher694]

Under the Protestant/Sola Scriptura (the Bible alone) theological system, is it your belief, and would you agree, there exists no person or no institution that can infallibly decide what is true and what is false for Christians when it comes to matters of faith and/or morals?

If you happen to answer yes to this question, my next question would be.... under this theological system, would you agree there is no sure way you could have absolute assurance of anything you believe being true? In other words, there is no way of knowing the truth?

Yet, Jesus says, "Know the truth and the truth will set make you free." (John 8:32)

So, let me leave you with this last question: For a Christian, what is the pillar and ground of the truth - i.e., the upholder and foundation of the truth? Is it the Bible? Yes or no?

Have a Blessed day!

Yes
No
No

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Under the Protestant/Sola Scriptura (the Bible alone) theological system, is it your belief, and would you agree, there exists no person or no institution that can infallibly decide what is true and what is false for Christians when it comes to matters of faith and/or morals?

If you happen to answer yes to this question, my next question would be.... under this theological system, would you agree there is no sure way you could have absolute assurance of anything you believe being true? In other words, there is no way of knowing the truth?

Yet, Jesus says, "Know the truth and the truth will set make you free." (John 8:32)

So, let me leave you with this last question: For a Christian, what is the pillar and ground of the truth - i.e., the upholder and foundation of the truth? Is it the Bible? Yes or no?

Have a Blessed day!

Truth is written in the books of scripture by paper however , everlasting truth is written in the heart by Spirit. A true Christian walks with His Holy Spirit.
Blessings

 

[timothyu]

An institution built in the tradition of man is no source of truth regardless of religious standing. Claiming to represent God and doing the will of God are two separate things. The scripture in the Bible did not abandon the Kingdom of God, but the gentile religion of man did. Jesus said truth comes only from the Father and that truth is already written in scripture in the words He spoke. He built His church on a rock solid foundation of truth from the Father. No need to interpret or misrepresent in order to justify an institutional church full of middlemen when scriptures contain direct instruction. Jesus' church was people living a way of life based upon the will of God and the ways of the Kingdom taught in scripture, not by man's governance which tells us how to follow and defend their institution. He made that clear when chastising the Sanhedrin for their hypocrisies.

James 1:27 Pure and undefiled religion before our God and Father is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

Matthew 23: 13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

 

[Tree of Life]

Under the Protestant/Sola Scriptura (the Bible alone) theological system, is it your belief, and would you agree, there exists no person or no institution that can infallibly decide what is true and what is false for Christians when it comes to matters of faith and/or morals?

No individual or institution can infallibly interpret scripture. This doesn't mean that individuals or institutions cannot interpret scripture correctly. They can. It means that they are all subject to error and if their interpretations can be proven false from scripture then they should be rejected.

If you happen to answer yes to this question, my next question would be.... under this theological system, would you agree there is no sure way you could have absolute assurance of anything you believe being true? In other words, there is no way of knowing the truth?

We can know truth because God gives us infallible truth in his word. We only need one infallible source.

You might respond by saying: "well how do you know for certain that your interpretation of scripture is accurate?" We must admit that it's always possible for our interpretations to be wrong. But Catholics don't escape this problem. Individual Catholics also have to interpret the teachings of the church. Adding more infallible sources does not negate the need for individual interpretation.

Yet, Jesus says, "Know the truth and the truth will set make you free." (John 8:32)

So, let me leave you with this last question: For a Christian, what is the pillar and ground of the truth - i.e., the upholder and foundation of the truth? Is it the Bible? Yes or no?

Have a Blessed day!

God is the foundation of all truth. His word is true. His church believes and teaches his word, although not infallibly. God alone is good and infallible.

 

[Fidelibus]

"Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, so we trust His words and what He set forward for us to do (The Great Commission)." This was pretty much the answer to that.

Not quite sure which of my questions you are referring to here. Could you please elaborate?

The bible, the words of Jesus, is the pillar of our truth and faith. It's how we live and how we're guided.

Thank you Saucy for your response, but I must disagree with you on your answer. The reason being, is that Jesus never said anywhere in Holy Scripture that His words are the "pillar of our truth and faith." If I am incorrect, please show me where He (Jesus) does say His "words are the pillar and ground of truth." Now....., what I have read in Holy Scripture, and according to the apostle Paul, in 1 Timothy 3:15, the "Church" (in the singular sense) is the pillar and ground of the truth. ("But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.")

So, respectfully Saucy, and now seeing this directly from Scripture, would you be willing to agree with me that the 'bible', for a Christian, is "Not" the pillar and ground of the truth - i.e., the upholder and foundation of the truth, but rather is the "Church"?

Have a Blessed day

 

[Fidelibus]

Each of us stands alone before God at the Judgment seat of Christ:
no pastor/priest/church-council will stand-in our place.

2 Cor 5:10
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

So then:
========================================
God Himself is "a God of Truth"

Deut 32:

3 For I proclaim the name of the Lord:
Ascribe greatness to our God.
4 He is the Rock, His work is perfect;
For all His ways are justice,
A God of truth and without injustice;
Righteous and upright is He.

He made Himself known to us through Christ (God the Son)

John 1:
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
... 18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

Our source of Truth is Christ

John 14:6 "the WAY the Truth and the life"

And therefore the Holy Spirit
John 16 "The Spirit of TRUTH will guide you into all Truth"

1 John 5:6 This is the One who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood. It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.

1 John 2:27 As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.

===========================================
Our infallible standard of truth is the Word of God. And we measure all doctrine by that standard:

Acts 17:11 "they studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul - WERE SO"

2 Tim 3:16 "ALL scripture is given by inspiration from God AND is to be used for doctrine AND correction"

Gal 1:6-9 "if WE (Apostles) or an angel from heaven brings to you a gospel other than what you have already received - let him be accursed!"

The Holy Spirit gave us Scripture

2 Pet 1: 20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, 21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. (NKJV)

20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, 21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God. (NASB)

====================

Your argument in the OP is that with only God and His Word as our source of Truth - would we not then agree that we could never have any real assurance of what Truth is - and our answer is "no we do not agree".

And of course the whole argument in the "protesting Catholics" history of the reformation is - "yes" we do have assurance of pure doctrine by relying on God alone, scripture alone. And we join in fellowship with like-minded Christians in that regard - all benefiting from the gifts God has given to the "body of Christ" via the Holy Spirit.

Still it does not change the fact that each one stands alone before at that judgment seat - no historic flawed council will be there taking our place.

Each of us stands alone before God at the Judgment seat of Christ:
no pastor/priest/church-council will stand-in our place.

2 Cor 5:10
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

So then:
========================================
God Himself is "a God of Truth"

Deut 32:

3 For I proclaim the name of the Lord:
Ascribe greatness to our God.
4 He is the Rock, His work is perfect;
For all His ways are justice,
A God of truth and without injustice;
Righteous and upright is He.

He made Himself known to us through Christ (God the Son)

John 1:
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
... 18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

Our source of Truth is Christ

John 14:6 "the WAY the Truth and the life"

And therefore the Holy Spirit
John 16 "The Spirit of TRUTH will guide you into all Truth"

1 John 5:6 This is the One who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood. It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.

1 John 2:27 As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.

===========================================
Our infallible standard of truth is the Word of God. And we measure all doctrine by that standard:

Acts 17:11 "they studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul - WERE SO"

2 Tim 3:16 "ALL scripture is given by inspiration from God AND is to be used for doctrine AND correction"

Gal 1:6-9 "if WE (Apostles) or an angel from heaven brings to you a gospel other than what you have already received - let him be accursed!"

The Holy Spirit gave us Scripture

2 Pet 1: 20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, 21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. (NKJV)

20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, 21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God. (NASB)

====================

Your argument in the OP is that with only God and His Word as our source of Truth - would we not then agree that we could never have any real assurance of what Truth is - and our answer is "no we do not agree".

And of course the whole argument in the "protesting Catholics" history of the reformation is - "yes" we do have assurance of pure doctrine by relying on God alone, scripture alone. And we join in fellowship with like-minded Christians in that regard - all benefiting from the gifts God has given to the "body of Christ" via the Holy Spirit.

Still it does not change the fact that each one stands alone before at that judgment seat - no historic flawed council will be there taking our place.

Thank you for your response, but I couldn't help but notice you too failed to answer the question I feel is very significant to this thread.

" For a Christian, what is the pillar and ground of the truth - i.e., the upholder and foundation of the truth? Is it the Bible? Yes or no?"

Have a Blessed day!

 

[Fidelibus]

No individual or institution can infallibly interpret scripture. This doesn't mean that individuals or institutions cannot interpret scripture correctly. They can. It means that they are all subject to error and if their interpretations can be proven false from scripture then they should be rejected.



We can know truth because God gives us infallible truth in his word. We only need one infallible source.

You might respond by saying: "well how do you know for certain that your interpretation of scripture is accurate?" We must admit that it's always possible for our interpretations to be wrong. But Catholics don't escape this problem. Individual Catholics also have to interpret the teachings of the church. Adding more infallible sources does not negate the need for individual interpretation.



God is the foundation of all truth. His word is true. His church believes and teaches his word, although not infallibly. God alone is good and infallible.

Thank you as well for your response. However, if you too were to answer the question I feel is very significant to this thread.........

" For a Christian, what is the pillar and ground of the truth - i.e., the upholder and foundation of the truth? Is it the Bible? Yes or no?"

I will gladly address where I disagree with other statements of your post.

Have a blessed day

 

[GodLovesCats]

Jesus never said anywhere in Holy Scripture that His words are the "pillar of our truth and faith."

There is no reason to assume those exact words must be in the Bible for whatever you consider the "pillar of truth" to be named in it. We know Jesus is the Truth and that is what matters.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Under the Protestant/Sola Scriptura (the Bible alone) theological system, is it your belief, and would you agree, there exists no person or no institution that can infallibly decide what is true and what is false for Christians when it comes to matters of faith and/or morals?

Correct

Faith comes from hearing the Word of Christ

But we must remember that God has gifted humans with the capacity to know the truth and act on it. In fact if this were not so He could not judge our response to His Word.

If you happen to answer yes to this question, my next question would be.... under this theological system, would you agree there is no sure way you could have absolute assurance of anything you believe being true? In other words, there is no way of knowing the truth?

Not correct -

Consider this from Romans 1...

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

So God has evidenced Himself to all individuals direct to the human spirit.

Yet, Jesus says, "Know the truth and the truth will set make you free." (John 8:32)

So, let me leave you with this last question: For a Christian, what is the pillar and ground of the truth - i.e., the upholder and foundation of the truth? Is it the Bible? Yes or no?

It is the Word of God that He makes manifest in us.

Scripture alone without Him can never be inerrant.

 

[Albion]

Under the Protestant/Sola Scriptura (the Bible alone) theological system, is it your belief, and would you agree, there exists no person or no institution that can infallibly decide what is true and what is false for Christians when it comes to matters of faith and/or morals?

No human is infallible.

So, let me leave you with this last question: For a Christian, what is the pillar and ground of the truth - i.e., the upholder and foundation of the truth? Is it the Bible? Yes or no?

According to the Bible, it's the household of God,. That is to say, it is the people who, collectively, are the Church of Christ..

 

[Fidelibus]

Yes

Thank you for your answer. Could you please elaborate?

No

So you are agreeing..... under this theological system, you agree there is no sure way you could have absolute assurance of anything you believe being true? In other words, there is no way of knowing the truth?

No

Okay, so if you do not believe for a Christian, the Bible "is not" the pillar and ground of the truth - i.e., the upholder and foundation of the truth, what do you believe is? According to the Bible?

Thank you

 

[Fidelibus]

No human is infallible.

Never, ever?

 

[Albion]

Never, ever?

That's right. People can be correct when it comes to making a decision, but that's not to say that they are endowed with a supernatural power of being infallible, i.e. being incapable of making a mistake.