A few questions for Protestants

[YeshuaFan]

Rev 12 says that woman clothed with the sun gave birth to Jesus ... that would be Mary, wouldn't it?

Would be Israel, as Jesus was there promised Messiah!

 

[timothyu]

You should take he time learn something about the subject you're criticizing.

Become RC first then learn their rules later? That sounds like how every sect in Christianity runs their operations in order to self justify themselves.

 

[YeshuaFan]

You don't understand the Catholic doctrine of Papal Infallibility either.

Guess what? A Pope can be the worst sinner on earth and still be "infallible" - ie, the Holy Spirit will ensure that he never teaches error in the name of the Church.

Incorrect. All the various writers of the books of the Bible were guided by the Holy Spirit to infallibly write God's word. Likewise, all the Prophets were guided by the HS to infallibly speak God's word.

All Popes - from Peter the apostle to Francis today - have been infallibly guided by the Holy Spirit.

Even when they gave forth doctrines and theology contrary to the Bible?

 

[YeshuaFan]

I am not aware of any Roman Catholic doctrines directly contrary to Scripture.

Baptismal regeneration, sacramentalism salvation, Purgetory, papacy on and on!

 

[timothyu]

Yes there is ... Jesus gave "the keys of the kingdom of heaven" to one man only

The Keys were truths from the Father, truth from the Father being the foundation (the rock) He said His church would be built upon.

 

[timothyu]

The CHURCH is the basis for my statement, not the Bible.

The church was the people , not the entrepreneurs who built an empire out of it.

 

[Albion]

The Keys were truths from the Father, truth from the Father being the foundation (the rock) He said His church would be built upon.

That's apparently so. Jesus did not give actual keys to any door upon saying what he did there. What the imagery signified is of course another issue.

 

[YeshuaFan]

The Keys were truths from the Father, truth from the Father being the foundation (the rock) He said His church would be built upon.

All of us have those same keys, for its proclaiming the gospel of Jesus to all lost sinners!

 

[timothyu]

will ensure that he never teaches error in the name of the Church.

The Church institution perhaps but not in the name of God. Otherwise they wouldn't have abandoned the Kingdom/governance of God to align themselves with the governance of the counter-culture of man.

 

[Albion]

All of us have those same keys, for its proclaiming the gospel of Jesus to all lost sinners!

No, that's pretty fanciful and almost romantic, but there is some significance or other to Jesus' words that applies to Peter. It's just not what the Church of Rome decided about 300 years later to say it meant!

 

[timothyu]

It is also my understanding that, since the Church is the "fullness" of Christ (Eph 1:22-23), the Church doesn't need Scripture to support an infallible doctrine.

That is like Caesar proclaiming himself God. Logical when you consider the Gentile church modelled itself on the empire rather than the Kingdom.

 

[timothyu]

No, that's pretty fanciful and almost romantic, but there is some significance or other to Jesus' words that applies to Peter.

Meaning God's truth still needs a middleman to interpret?

 

[pescador]

The CHURCH is the basis for my statement, not the Bible.

That is your error. Sola scriptura.

 

[Albion]

Meaning God's truth still needs a middleman to interpret?

No, but Jesus was talking to Peter and he was saying that he was giving something to him.

Altering any of that gets us off track with this issue about how what happened in the Old Testament might be a precursor to what Jesus says here.

 

[pescador]

The Keys were truths from the Father, truth from the Father being the foundation (the rock) He said His church would be built upon.

Correct.

Matthew 16:21-23, "From that time on Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests, and experts in the law, and be killed, and on the third day be raised. So Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him: “God forbid, Lord! This must not happen to you!” But he turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me, because you are not setting your mind on God’s interests, but on man’s.”

The rock that Catholics claim Jesus said He would build His church on was called Satan shortly thereafter. So obviously Peter is not that rock. Rather it is his confession that Jesus was (and is) the Christ, something all Christinas agree upon.

 

[timothyu]

No, but Jesus was talking to Peter and he was saying that he was giving something to him.

And was that not what was mentioned in the previous scripture where it was clearly stated that the truth only comes from the Father and not from man? Sound like a good key to me to open and close doors to the Kingdom when someone seeks to enter. Who's truth do they follow? Although the Gentile Institution set the Kingdom aside so there was no such problem to surmount anymore at least in their eyes.

 

[timothyu]

So obviously Peter is not that rock.

No but Peter was the nickname Jesus gave to him which meant pebble, like calling him a chip off the ol' block (rock). A small truth about a larger truth.

 

[Albion]

And was that not what was mentioned in the previous scripture where it was clearly stated that the truth only comes from the Father and not from man?

Actually not. The preceding verses are all about Peter's view of Christ, and Christ responds to him with the famous "keys" statement we were discussing.

 

[concretecamper]

Be she seems to have been written out.

to contemporary "so called Christians " maybe. But not those those who follow the Bible and 2,000 years of scriptural teachings.

 

[concretecamper]

No but Peter was the nickname Jesus gave to him which meant pebble, like calling him a chip off the ol' block (rock). A small truth about a larger truth.

yeah, God was funny that way, always giving people nicknames Oh how far some have strayed from the Gospel.