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Featured 7th Trumpet Rapture?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Everett J Schulte, Feb 10, 2018.

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  1. Jonathan OShea

    Jonathan OShea New Member

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    According to the scriptures there is no rapture but when the Lord sounds the final trumpet that will be the end for all of mankind. There are no scriptures that support the "rapture" theory.
     
  2. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

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    In the Holy Bible there most certainly IS scripture support for the Harpazo which is the original Greek word that was translated into
    Latin as raperium , rapiemur . rapio and then translated into English as rapture , they all mean the same thing referring to the sudden unexpected snatching away, catching away ,caught away suddenly by force and taken to another location
    If the bible you are reading does not have this within it then you are reading a corrupted book because the rapture is the harvest of the saints - Read the Holy Bible - it's in there
     
  3. Jonathan OShea

    Jonathan OShea New Member

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    Please give some scripture references.
     
  4. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Since this rotten, sin-cursed world is going to be burned up, as found in 2 Peter 3:10-13, it cannot last "forever".

    The only "forever" land is in the New Heavens and the New Earth promised in Hebrews 11:15-16.


    .
     
  5. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

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    1 Thess 4:17 ” Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.”

    In verse 18 Paul says we are to take comfort with the words he is teaching

    Book of Acts 8:34-40
    38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
    39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing

    The story of Phillip baptism of the eunuch , read all verses 34-40 and notice that the words “caught away” in verse 39 are in the Greek writing of Acts 8:39 is Harpazo – identically exactly the very same word used in Thessalonians where Paul speaks of the rapture of the whole church.
    in a split second as they come up out of the water Phillip is raptured -caught away -harpazo and taken to a city 30 miles away in a mere split second of time.

    Phillip did not take any means of human transportation , God snatched Phillip and placed him in a city 30 miles away .
    Strong’s Concordance
    harpazó: to seize, catch up, snatch away
    Original Word: ἁρπάζω
    Part of Speech: Verb
    Transliteration: harpazó
    Phonetic Spelling: (har-pad’-zo)
    Definition: I seize, snatch,
    HELPS Word-studies
    726 harpázō – properly, seize by force; snatch up, suddenly and decisively – like someone seizing bounty (spoil, a prize); to take by an open display of force (i.e. not covertly or secretly).
     
  6. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought

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    keras,

    1. The KoG was pertaining to salvation of the Heart Matthew 6:33; Luke 17:20-21.
    This was spoken to the Jewish nation under the Mosaic law and the KoH and the KoG message.
    This is not a message to the church.
    The KoG was for the Jew to repent, believe in Messiah and that he would save them from their sins. It was not the context of Messiah’s death, burial, and resurrection message of the church Matthew 16:21-23, John 6:53-70.

    2. Today the KoG is still spiritual according to the death and resurrection of Christ and bringing the fruits thereof has to do with propagating the gospel of salvation.
    The KoG is love, joy, peace in the Holy Ghost Roman’s 14:17.

    3. Replacement theology is not propagating the gospel in the church age.

    4. The spiritual Israel concerns salvation of the Heart Roman’s 2:29. This has nothing to do with the KoH program with physical Israel.

    5. Jews receiving redemption after the great tribulation is true for that is what the Battle Of Armageddon is all about and has nothing to with the timing of the rapture whether it is pre, mid,or post.

    6. There will be a remnant Zechariah 13:8-9; Revelation 11:13; 12:17.
    There is the Israel preserved in the wilderness and the Jewish remnant from the Four corners of the heavens which is the earth Matthew 24:31.
    All of Israel will be saved Romans 11:25-29.

    7. Zephaniah 1:14-18 doesn’t even mention the remnant.
    Amos 2:4-5; says nothing about the remnant or the remnant being the only one to be saved from Israel.
    Jeremiah 10:18; nothing about the remnant or the remnant being the only ones to be saved out of Israel.
    Romans 11:26 is only talking about all of physical Israel that all will be true spiritual Jews.
    Daniel 9:24 shows Israel has to be reconciled to God from their backslidden condition not the church.
    The true church will be overcomers but not the professing church. The church overcomes will be raptured Revelation 4:1.
    The KoH was never taught to the church.

    8. Replacement Theology is the belief that the church has taken the KoH earthly, gifts and calling and rulership position of the millennial kingdom.

    9. Will the church have physical ancestral land called Israel and that their children’s children inherit?
    Will the church have a real Jewish Throne where the Jewish King David will rule over Israel?
    Wil the church have the 12 Jewish apostles ruling over the 12 Jewish tribes?
    Is the church the backslidden physical nation called Israel and Judah that has to become one stick?
    Is the church the physical nation of Israel that will rule from the head of the nations and from Zion where the civil law will go forth?
    Will the church have the physical Jewish capital of the earth? Answer these. Jerry kelso
     
  7. Jonathan OShea

    Jonathan OShea New Member

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    Please maintain your first reference where it states shall be caught away and be with the Lord ALWAYS. No thousand years reign. Also Philip and eunuch obviously weren't in "rapture"
     
  8. Jonathan OShea

    Jonathan OShea New Member

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    Romans clearly defines who the Jews are under the new covenant.
     
  9. Jonathan OShea

    Jonathan OShea New Member

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    Also Peter when he describes those who were not a people but now are the people of God referring to all those who believe on Jesus.
     
  10. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

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    Obviously you did not read or understand what scripture plainly says

    the 1000 year reign does not begin until after Jesus returns to earth
     
  11. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

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    rapture is simply the act of snatching people away suddenly by force , to a place determined by Jesus
     
  12. Jonathan OShea

    Jonathan OShea New Member

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    How many returns does he have?
     
  13. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

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    He will come to the clouds when it happens but not to earth at that moment but later - Jesus will return to earth only once more - there are differing views everyone is dogmatic about the view they hold
    God came down to the mountain top when he called Moses up to the mountain top where he met with Moses to give him the 10 Commandments in stone
     
  14. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought

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    baberean2,

    1. Don’t have an answer for the millennial kingdom is Jewish in nature concerning the throne and the land and the nation having to be purified and saved from their backslidden state and their rulership position etc.

    2. There is no annihilation of the earth. It is renovated by fire which purifies physically. Hebrews 12:26-28 is the shaking of things on earth is spiritual on earth at the same time.
    The KoH reign which is the Kingdom from under the heavens which is the earthly sphere is forever Daniel 9:27.
    The first 1000 year millennial kingdom purpose is to put down sin and rebellion and get rid of death etc., so the son will give the kingdom back to the Fathe so God will be all in all.
    The New Heaven and the New Earth will be a complete renovation so all former things will pass away of the past Revelation 21:4. This is not annihilation but renovation.

    3. Hebrews 11:15-16; Abraham was looking for a country whose builder and maker was God not the heathen countries he came out of.
    Abraham knew the promises on earth and the conditions.
    There is no proof he knew about going to the planet Heaven like Jesus explained in John 14:1-3 in his father’s house etc. Even the disciples didn’t understand that at that time. They understood the physical reign on earth.
    The Holy Jerusalem will be inhabited during the tribulation and will come down from Heaven to earth. This has nothing to getting rid of the earthly KoH reign which is forever Daniel 9:24; Revelation 20 1-10 and Revelation 21-22.
    You are wrong again because of bad perception and ignoring context. Jerry Kelso
     
  15. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought

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    jonathanoshea,

    1. The Jews were physical and separate from the physical Gentiles for Paul quit preaching to them be cause of unbelief.

    2. Those physical Jews were not real Jews spiritually because the they were not saved. Jerry kelso
     
  16. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Either you are wrong, or the Apostle Paul is wrong below.

    Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
    Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.


    Either you are wrong, or the author of the Book of Hebrews is wrong below.

    Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
    Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

    Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
    Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
    Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.




    Either you are wrong, or Christ is wrong below.

    Rev_3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

    .
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2018
  17. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought

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    1. You are wrong in your assessment of the Jews gifts and callings according to the KoH program in the millennial KoH reign.

    1. Paul is talking about the spiritual aspect of the difference between law and grace not the KoH program.

    2. I have already explained Hebrews and you have no rebuttal just disagreement.

    3. John is not wrong about the New Jerusalem and the church overcomes.
    That has nothing to do with the KoH program with the Jews in the millennial kingdom.

    4. Your context and exegesis is what is wrong. Jerry kelso
     
  18. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    That is exactly what is described to happen UNTO THE COMING OF JESUS 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 ...A TRANSPORTATION TO WHERE JESUS WILL BE AT HIS COMING (ie) IN THE AIR OVER THE VALLEY OF MEGIDDO Revelation 19:11-21..NOT ''a 7 Years trip to Heaven before His Coming "
    1 Thessalonians 4:13-17
    15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we that are alive, that are left UNTO THE COMING of the LORD, shall in no wise precede them that are fallen asleep.

    16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first; 17 then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up in the clouds, To Meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

    NOWHERE IN THE TEXT IT IS SAID THAT JESUS WILL RETURN TO HEAVEN WITH SOMEONE"
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2018
  19. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Jerry,

    And what has that finished work accomplished?

    It has accomplished "all" in the Scriptures I cited.

    "All" is the Scriptures' conjecture and opinion, not mine.

    Yes, the prophets. And the law of Moses. And the Psalms. He's in them all. He fulfills them all. "All the promises". "Heir of all things".

    If He can't explain it very well, nobody can. Maybe it's because your perspective is not the same as His. Try changing to His.

    We can't be certain why Christ didn't directly answer the disciples' question about the kingdom. But Christ had already earlier declared that the kingdom would be taken from Israel (Matthew 21:43). And the subject never again appears in the whole of the remainder of New Testament Scripture. The disciples had much more important issues and work to occupy them (Acts 1:8).

    The Church already enjoys heavenly spiritual blessings and benefits which transcend natural and carnal ones (Hebrews 12:22-24), with heaven itself to follow. Who would want to regress? I certainly won't be.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2018
  20. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

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    That is a misleading misunderstanding that you have because you choose to leave out other scriptures to make that work for you - like removing the insole of a shoe to make it fit your foot - But it is NOT what ALL the scripture says - Just like your folly that demands that everyone would die during the Great Trib until I proved to you that not everyone does
    Jesus himself made it clear that you are wrong but you prefer a misleading and false view

    At the rapture scripture clearly say it is a time of relief and comfort - which you deny

    At Jesus return it is a time of woes to the earth




     
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