7th Trumpet Rapture?

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BABerean2

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Israel’s calling is earthly and the Churches calling is Heavenly, both earth and the rest of. The universe. God said it, I believe it and that settles it.

The only way the claim above works is to ignore the fact that we are given a specific land promise. This is one of the chief errors of the Two Peoples of God doctrine.

Our eternal destination is not in heaven, at the restitution of all things.

It is found below.


Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.


Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.


Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.


2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.


Rev_3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Based on Hebrews 11:15-16 and the other text above we will share New Jerusalem with the Old Testament Saints at the restitution of all things.

.
 
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jgr

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jgr,

1. DNA is not the deciding factor for their gifts and callings otherwise they wouldn’t have to be saved.

2. The true church is comprised of only saved people and it doesn’t have nothing to do with DNA.

3. Why do you keep shunning the truth?
If God had promised the church the land and throne and the feasts etc. he would have given them the land and the throne and a specific country and a specific city as the capital of the earth.

4. Salvation and rulership positions are two different things.
All saints have to be saved in order to rule in the KoH reign.
Are going to get mad at another Christian gets a seemingly higher position of authority than you?
Israel has the eternal promise of God when they all become saved in the overall picture.
Those in the church age’s position of authority has to do with stewardship.
Israel’s calling is earthly and the Churches calling is Heavenly, both earth and the rest of. The universe. God said it, I believe it and that settles it.

5. Messianic Jews still practice Judaism under the New Covenant standards for they are a part of the church of Jews and Gentiles.
The KoH will slightly be different because of the nature of the theocracy.

6. Jews will be real Jews by blood and what tribe they belong to.
It doesn’t mean that people who are not Jewish can’t live in their country.
The United States is American and we have a melting pot and if they become a citizen they are an American citizen but the natural born citizens are still the root of being an American.
You probably want to make an argument of no pure American stock or Jewish stock and put the church in it’s place but that is not what God said.
We know he said Israel his chosen people and the apple of his eye will inherit the land and the throne.
There is no scripture that says the nation of Israel has ever or ever will be transferred to the church age saints.
Jerry kelso

Jerry,

Predictably, you derailed yourself immediately. I requested a list of one-word recognition criteria. Like the Church's: "faith, obedience". Instead I got another extended monologue.

But it probably wouldn't have mattered, because if your list contained anything other than "faith, obedience", it would have been scripturally and spiritually illegitimate.

Back to Romans 2:28,29 which contain the only critera God recognizes, those of the inward Jew, a Jew whose circumcision is of the heart, and who receives God's praise. Those criteria are the products of faith and obedience. They are those of the Church.

I was singing "All Hail the Power of Jesus' Name" during worship today. The hymn is often called the "National Anthem of Christendom". The lyrics were written by Edward Perronet while he served as a missionary in India. Here's his second verse:

Ye chosen seed of Israel's race,
ye ransomed from the Fall,
hail Him who saves you by His grace,
and crown Him Lord of all.

Bro. Perronet recognized that the chosen of Israel are those who have been ransomed and saved by grace. That's the Church.

No dispensationalist, he.

If you don't believe what he wrote, you can't sing what he wrote.

If you do, you can.
 
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BABerean2

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Like I said............I'll believe you............when you can get these experts to change what is written in the Bible. If what you're saying is true, they could easily have written..... "But of the time and season, brethren. But they didn't do that. Why don't you run with this.......if you are right, get them to fix it. Until then........

Unleash a copy and paste campaign that would make the world marvel.

One verse with the word "time" and another verse with the word "times", both coming from the same Greek word "chronos".


Mat 2:7 Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared.

(KJV+) ThenG5119 Herod,G2264 when he had privilyG2977 calledG2564 theG3588 wise men,G3097 enquired of them diligentlyG198 G3844 G846 what timeG5550 theG3588 starG792 appeared.G5316


1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

(KJV+) ButG1161 ofG4012 theG3588 timesG5550 andG2532 theG3588 seasons,G2540 brethren,G80 ye haveG2192 noG3756 needG5532 that I writeG1125 unto you.G5213


G5550
χρόνος
chronos
khron'-os
Of uncertain derivation; a space of time (in genitive case, and thus properly distinguished from G2540, which designates a fixed or special occasion; and from G165, which denotes a particular period) or interval; by extension an individual opportunity; by implication delay: - + years old, season, space, (X often-) time (-s), (a) while.
Total KJV occurrences: 53

You have built your doctrine upon a difference that does not exist.

.
 
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seventysevens

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1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
You have built your doctrine upon a difference that does not exist.

.
Every place on earth uses a calendar made of 4 quarters called seasons plural - spring ,summer , autumn and winter - not a single season
other translation says

Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

4 But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. 5 You are all children of the light and children of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness.

you have not made a point , not even making sense - so what point are trying to make as the scripture is quite clear on what is being said
 
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jerry kelso

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Jerry,

Predictably, you derailed yourself immediately. I requested a list of one-word recognition criteria. Like the Church's: "faith, obedience". Instead I got another extended monologue.

But it probably wouldn't have mattered, because if your list contained anything other than "faith, obedience", it would have been scripturally and spiritually illegitimate.

Back to Romans 2:28,29 which contain the only critera God recognizes, those of the inward Jew, a Jew whose circumcision is of the heart, and who receives God's praise. Those criteria are the products of faith and obedience. They are those of the Church.

I was singing "All Hail the Power of Jesus' Name" during worship today. The hymn is often called the "National Anthem of Christendom". The lyrics were written by Edward Perronet while he served as a missionary in India. Here's his second verse:

Ye chosen seed of Israel's race,
ye ransomed from the Fall,
hail Him who saves you by His grace,
and crown Him Lord of all.

Bro. Perronet recognized that the chosen of Israel are those who have been ransomed and saved by grace. That's the Church.

No dispensationalist, he.

If you don't believe what he wrote, you can't sing what he wrote.

If you do, you can.

jgr,

1. Faith and obedience in Christ finished work is the gospel of salvation for man to be free from sin.
I have always said that and you agree with me.

2. Romans 2:28:29 is talking about salvation for man’s soul. It can be Jew or Gentile.
I have always said that and you agree with me.

3. I love and sing and play “All Hail The Power zodiac Jesus Name”
I don’t remember singing the verse of the chosen seed.
We are not the physical seed of Abraham so we are not the chosen seed of Israel.
We are a spiritual seed because of salvation and can be called a spiritual Jew. We were also grafted in but we are the wild olive tree not the root.

4. The disagreement is on the position of authority in the KoH reign on earth. This is a separate issue and I have explained numerous times and you don’t agree. That is your prerogative but you are wrong. Do you understand this ? Year or no?
Jerry Kelso
 
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BABerean2

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We are not the physical seed of Abraham so we are not the chosen seed of Israel.
We are a spiritual seed because of salvation and can be called a spiritual Jew. We were also grafted in but we are the wild olive tree not the root.

How do you know "We" are not the physical seed of Abraham without a DNA test?

What would be the advantage of being a physical seed, without being a spiritual seed?


.
 
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seventysevens

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How do you know "We" are not the physical seed of Abraham without a DNA test?

What would be the advantage of being a physical seed, without being a spiritual seed?.


Did the Jews in the ancient times take DNA tests to see if they were really Jewish as they were told they were :)
Did anyone say there was an advantage to it ? I did not see anyone say that
 
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jerry kelso

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How do you know "We" are not the physical seed of Abraham without a DNA test?

What would be the advantage of being a physical seed, without being a spiritual seed?


.

baberean2,

1. I thought you believed in 1 Timothy 1:4. I guess I was wrong.
If we trace back far enough we will see we are Adam’s seed.

2. I have a book of Kelso’s and the family crest is Scottish.
When I played music at PTL back in the 80’s people from England said there were Kelso’s in the British Isles.
Now I would have to read upon how DNA works but I can almost assure you it won’t come up being Jewish as the primary factor.

2. There is no advantage of physical Jew over a spiritual Gentile just like there is no advantage of a physical Gentile over a spiritual Jew.

3. There is no advantage in the body of Christ for Jew and Gentile are on the same level.

4. There is no advantage of physical/ spiritual Jew over a physical/ spiritual Gentile or vice versa.
If you think it is about having advantage then you think like one who is anti-Semitic. Why? Because you think it is unfair that one should be put in a position of authority that you think is greater than you or your party.
Now you have either shown your true colors or else you could just plead honest innocent ignorance? Ignorance meaning lack of understanding. Which is it? Jerry Kelso
 
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seventysevens

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What Jesus said is that if you believe in HIM your SOUL WILL BE SAVED
Yes , the doctrine of salvation is all about saving a persons soul, and we will receive a new eternal glorified spiritual body like the one Jesus has when he rose from the grave and had people touch him and he ate food - it IS a physical body just made of something other than flesh as we have
True ,but Paul tell us that a massive departure from the faith in Jesus will happen among the Believers (APOSTASY) before the man of sin will be revealed.
Paul did Not speak of a massive departure - he just said 'a' departure without saying anything about it being massive - that is just your embellishment of how you prefer to see it but it is not part of scripture. The apostasy/rebellion has been occuring for decades now as there are many different deviated views on scripture these days with various teachings of JW , mormon , preterists , the sects like the branch Dravidian , and teachings that end times prophecy has already happened , teachings that say the 1000 years has already happened , a real departure from the true teachings of the Holy Spirit
It will likely continue to get worse
Yes ,all those who reject the true Gospel of Jesus that Jesus SAVE OUR SOUL ,and have replacing it by the pre-tribulation rapture theory who falsely claim that Jesus will save our flesh body from any tribulation(s) be it small or Great , will worship the Beast and will take the mark to save their life.
The most ridiculous notion of all is the foolishness to even think that true born again believers would depart from the faith if the rapture does not happen before the GT it is absolute lunacy to think that -
Now we know for an absolute fact through history that when people get hungry enough and experiencing starvation they will eat anything , they will kill a dog , a horse or any animal and skin it - cook it and eat it, when people get desperate enough they will kill each other for food -
When the beast insists on people receiving the mark and when people who don't want the mark will be getting desperate for food because they are starving and have children to feed, they are a hundred times more likely to accept the mark than the absolute lunacy of saying people will accept it if the rapture did not happen before the GT

It is the type people who have a macho mindset that they have to prove something that think such nonsense - it's akin to those who think it is all about doing works that get a person into the kingdom , so they boast about all they do for the kingdom and how many church meetings they attend.
I have never met any real Christian that would even give a thought or consider giving up on Jesus , Jesus will never put His Beloved Bride into a time that HE has designed to punish those who reject Him - it is nothing more than false teaching to say he would do that .
ONLY people who have not accepted Jesus as savoir will be in the GT as the GT IS God punishing those who reject Jesus by sending the false messiah who is the Man of Sin/Man of Lawlessness Because people rejected the true messiah Jesus- as the scripture states that there will be a remnant of Jews that will repent and will suffer through the GT

Again - it is NOT about saving the flesh body as it is replaced with the eternal spiritual body like Jesus has at the rapture
Would you knowingly put your own children it a place where they could die just to see if they could handle starvation, beatings , severe plagues , hailstorms of meteors of 120 lbs each ?-
Jesus will NOT do that to those he gave his own life for and those who have given their own life over to Jesus- the only reason anyone is in the GT is because they had not accepted Jesus before it began
I noticed that you cannot refute any of the Facts I have given you as you only care about a mindset that has no merit and no validity ,
Scripture is Clear that those who are martryd are Jews , that repent after the GT has begun -
as I have asked of you to provide any scripture that shows that ANY born again Christian Prior to the beginning of the GT are in any part of it , and you cannot find any scripture that says that , you can believe whatever you want to but your view show that you do not have any real faith in Jesus keeping his word to his beloved family as Jesus has told us we will not be in it .
 
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Choose Wisely

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You have built your doctrine upon a difference that does not exist.

.
LOL, yeah my whole doctrine is based off this one verse.

Riddle me this. So where in Matthew 24 does it switch to future events that have not happened. Or has all of Matthew 24 happened already.
 
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jgr

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jgr,

1. Faith and obedience in Christ finished work is the gospel of salvation for man to be free from sin.
I have always said that and you agree with me.

2. Romans 2:28:29 is talking about salvation for man’s soul. It can be Jew or Gentile.
I have always said that and you agree with me.

3. I love and sing and play “All Hail The Power zodiac Jesus Name”
I don’t remember singing the verse of the chosen seed.
We are not the physical seed of Abraham so we are not the chosen seed of Israel.
We are a spiritual seed because of salvation and can be called a spiritual Jew. We were also grafted in but we are the wild olive tree not the root.

4. The disagreement is on the position of authority in the KoH reign on earth. This is a separate issue and I have explained numerous times and you don’t agree. That is your prerogative but you are wrong. Do you understand this ? Year or no?
Jerry Kelso

Jerry,
1. Faith and obedience in Christ finished work is the gospel of salvation for man to be free from sin.
I have always said that and you agree with me.
Yes. But they are applicable to the complete covenant relationship over one's lifetime, not just initial salvation.
2. Romans 2:28:29 is talking about salvation for man’s soul. It can be Jew or Gentile.
I have always said that and you agree with me.
Yes. But it too is applicable to the complete covenant relationship over one's lifetime, not just initial salvation.
3. I love and sing and play “All Hail The Power zodiac Jesus Name”
I don’t remember singing the verse of the chosen seed.
We are not the physical seed of Abraham so we are not the chosen seed of Israel.
We are a spiritual seed because of salvation and can be called a spiritual Jew. We were also grafted in but we are the wild olive tree not the root.
zodiac??
The verse should be in your hymnal unless it's been intentionally removed.
The hymnwriter affirms that the chosen seed is the spiritual seed -- the ransomed and saved.
4. The disagreement is on the position of authority in the KoH reign on earth. This is a separate issue and I have explained numerous times and you don’t agree. That is your prerogative but you are wrong. Do you understand this ? Year or no?
The KoH and the KoG are synonymous and refer to the reign of Christ in the heart of the believer.
 
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keras

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I have asked of you to provide any scripture that shows that ANY born again Christian Prior to the beginning of the GT are in any part of it , and you cannot find any scripture that says that
Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:7 prove you wrong. The holy people of God are in the holy Land when the Anti-Christ leader of the One World Govt comes with his armies and conquers the Christian citizens of the new nation of Beulah. Isaiah 62:1-5. Proved by Revelation 12:6-17 and Daniel 11:32-35, where the faithful half of God's people will go to a place of safety and the rest must remain during the Great tribulation. verse 17
Note that 'the holy people of God', can only refer to born again Christians, God does not have any other people. Anyone who rejects His Son, is not part of His people.

You make wild assertions that just serve to show how confused and erroneous you are.
 
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seventysevens

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Note that 'the holy people of God', can only refer to born again Christians, God does not have any other people. Anyone who rejects His Son, is not part of His people.
Keras you have failed yet again , you are not able to understand the basic principle of First proving that a person has accepted Jesus as Lord PRIOR TO the start of the GT and you cannot find such , and you merely make assumptions , to show how confused and erroneous you are.
 
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BABerean2

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So where in Matthew 24 does it switch to future events that have not happened. Or has all of Matthew 24 happened already.

Olivet Timing Revealed by Luke’s Gospel:

Compare Luke's Gospel to that of Matthew if you want to understand the timing.


Jesus Foretells Destruction of the Temple (These subtitles are found in e-Sword.)


Luk 21:5  Then, as some spoke of the temple, how it was adorned with beautiful stones and donations, He said, 

Luk 21:6  "These things which you see—the days will come in which not one stone shall be left upon another that shall not be thrown down." 

(Mat 24:2  And Jesus said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down." )





Luk 21:7  So they asked Him, saying, "Teacher, but when will these things be? And what sign will there be when these things are about to take place?" 

(Mat 24:3  Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?")

( Mar 13:3  Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John, and Andrew asked Him privately, 

Mar 13:4  "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign when all these things will be fulfilled?") 





Luk 21:8  And He said: "Take heed that you not be deceived. For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am He,' and, 'The time has drawn near.' Therefore do not go after them. 

(Mat 24:5  For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many. )



Luk 21:9  But when you hear of wars and commotions, do not be terrified; for these things must come to pass first, but the end will not come immediately."

(Mat 24:6  And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.) 



Jesus Foretells Wars and Persecution



Luk 21:10  Then He said to them, "Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. 

(Mat 24:7  For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. )



Luk 21:11  And there will be great earthquakes in various places, and famines and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven. 

(Mat 24:7  For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. )



Luk 21:12  But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name's sake. 

(Mat 24:9  "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake.) 
(Read Acts 22:19-20, where Paul reveals that he fulfilled this text.)



Luk 21:13  But it will turn out for you as an occasion for testimony. 

Luk 21:14  Therefore settle it in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer; 

Luk 21:15  for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict or resist. 

Luk 21:16  You will be betrayed even by parents and brothers, relatives and friends; and they will put some of you to death. 

Luk 21:17  And you will be hated by all for My name's sake. 

(Mat 24:10  And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. )



Luk 21:18  But not a hair of your head shall be lost. 

Luk 21:19  By your patience possess your souls. 

(Mat 24:13  But he who endures to the end shall be saved.) 



Jesus Foretells Destruction of Jerusalem



Luk 21:20  "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. (See also Luke 19:41-44)

(Mat 24:15  "Therefore when you see the 'ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand), 



Luk 21:21  Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 

(Mat 24:16  "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.) 



Luk 21:22  For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 

Luk 21:23  But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. 

(Mat 24:19  But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! ) (See Luke 23:27-31 where Jesus warned the women weeping for Him.)



Luk 21:24  And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
 (Almost all Bible scholars agree that the first part of the verse above is about 70 AD. At the end of the verse we find a period of time known as “the times of the Gentiles”. In the verses that follow we find the future Second Coming of Christ.)


The Coming of the Son of Man



Luk 21:25  "And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 

(Mat 24:29  "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.) 



Luk 21:26  men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 

Luk 21:27  Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 

(Mat 24:30  Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.) 



Luk 21:28  Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near." 

(Mat 24:33  So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors!)

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From "Antiquities of the Jews" by Josephus, Book 12, chapter 7

"6. When therefore the generals of Antiochus's armies had been beaten so often, Judas assembled the people together, and told them, that after these many victories which God had given them, they ought to go up to Jerusalem, and purify the temple, and offer the appointed sacrifices. But as soon as he, with the whole multitude, was come to Jerusalem, and found the temple deserted, and its gates burnt down, and plants growing in the temple of their own accord, on account of its desertion, he and those that were with him began to lament, and were quite confounded at the sight of the temple; so he chose out some of his soldiers, and gave them order to fight against those guards that were in the citadel, until he should have purified the temple. When therefore he had carefully purged it, and had brought in new vessels, the candlestick, the table [of shew-bread], and the altar [of incense], which were made of gold, he hung up the veils at the gates, and added doors to them. He also took down the altar [of burnt-offering], and built a new one of stones that he gathered together, and not of such as were hewn with iron tools. So on the five and twentieth day of the month Casleu, which the Macedonians call Apeliens, they lighted the lamps that were on the candlestick, and offered incense upon the altar [of incense], and laid the loaves upon the table [of shew-bread], and offered burnt-offerings upon the new altar [of burnt-offering]. Now it so fell out, that these things were done on the very same day on which their Divine worship had fallen off, and was reduced to a profane and common use, after three years' time; for so it was, that the temple was made desolate by Antiochus, and so continued for three years. This desolation happened to the temple in the hundred forty and fifth year, on the twenty-fifth day of the month Apeliens, and on the hundred fifty and third olympiad: but it was dedicated anew, on the same day, the twenty-fifth of the month Apeliens, on the hundred and forty-eighth year, and on the hundred and fifty-fourth olympiad. And this desolation came to pass according to the prophecy of Daniel, which was given four hundred and eight years before; for he declared that the Macedonians would dissolve that worship [for some time].

7. Now Judas celebrated the festival of the restoration of the sacrifices of the temple for eight days, and omitted no sort of pleasures thereon; but he feasted them upon very rich and splendid sacrifices; and he honored God, and delighted them by hymns and psalms. Nay, they were so very glad at the revival of their customs, when, after a long time of intermission, they unexpectedly had regained the freedom of their worship, that they made it a law for their posterity, that they should keep a festival, on account of the restoration of their temple worship, for eight days. And from that time to this we celebrate this festival, and call it Lights. I suppose the reason was, because this liberty beyond our hopes appeared to us; and that thence was the name given to that festival. Judas also rebuilt the walls round about the city, and reared towers of great height against the incursions of enemies, and set guards therein. He also fortified the city Bethsura, that it might serve as a citadel against any distresses that might come from our enemies. "


Josephus confirms above the understanding of the Jews of his time, who knew that Daniel had predicted the events of 167 BC, by Antiochus Epiphanes.
Josephus confirms it as a historical fact.


John 10:22 is a reference to the celebration of Hanukkah each year by the Jews of Jesus time.


The Book of Matthew was addressed mainly to a Jewish audience. Jesus was telling the Jews of His time that something similar to 167 BC would happen during 70 AD. Not only did Antiochus desecrate the temple, but he also attacked the city killing thousands of Jews and stopped the temple sacrifices. The temple sacrifices would also stop in 70 AD, due to the destruction of the temple. Based on John 10:22, the Jews were well aware of this historical fulfillment of Daniel’s prophecy. Luke’s Gospel was written to more of a Gentile audience, so he spelled it out for them.


Matthew 24:15-16 and Luke 21:20-21 are clearly parallel accounts, because we have the exact same warning to flee from Judea to the mountains in the second verse of each Gospel.


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BABerean2

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baberean2,

1. I thought you believed in 1 Timothy 1:4. I guess I was wrong.
If we trace back far enough we will see we are Adam’s seed.

2. I have a book of Kelso’s and the family crest is Scottish.
When I played music at PTL back in the 80’s people from England said there were Kelso’s in the British Isles.
Now I would have to read upon how DNA works but I can almost assure you it won’t come up being Jewish as the primary factor.

2. There is no advantage of physical Jew over a spiritual Gentile just like there is no advantage of a physical Gentile over a spiritual Jew.

3. There is no advantage in the body of Christ for Jew and Gentile are on the same level.

4. There is no advantage of physical/ spiritual Jew over a physical/ spiritual Gentile or vice versa.
If you think it is about having advantage then you think like one who is anti-Semitic. Why? Because you think it is unfair that one should be put in a position of authority that you think is greater than you or your party.
Now you have either shown your true colors or else you could just plead honest innocent ignorance? Ignorance meaning lack of understanding. Which is it? Jerry Kelso

Since Arabs are also "Semitic" peoples your argument using that word falls apart.
God is not a racist. He does not care what kind of DNA you have.
Your doctrine claims that God does care what kind of DNA a person has.

The most important genealogy in the Bible is found in Matthew 1:1.
This fact is confirmed by the Apostle Paul in Galatians 3:16.
Any genealogy that comes after the one found in Matthew chapter 1, has no effect on how God views that person.
No person alive today has a relationship with God that depends on who their mother and father would be.
Every person alive today has a relationship with God based on their relationship with God's Son, as found in 1 John 2:22-23.

After the destruction of the temple in 70 AD many of the Jews who survived left the middle east.
Some of them went to Scotland.


I also have ancestors who came from Scotland.

God says that genealogy is not now to be considered in 1 Timothy 1:4.
You are the one claiming otherwise.

.
 
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seventysevens

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Can you provide the Bible verses saying that?
Matt 21
22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.
Matt 18
19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven
Mark 11
24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
John 14
13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
John 15
7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
Luke 21
36 Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

Consider that you are about to lift and move a heavy item such as a couch and you ask a person to give you a hand -- the plain sense , common sense understanding is that you have asked for assistance in moving the couch , but some people may choose to twist the meaning of this and choose to give you an applause clapping their hands , but that is not a wise manner to interpret what was said-

likewise some people choose to interpret scripture in a manner that is not in conjunction with what the text is indicating but rather choosing to put on scripture a meaning that was never intended to be placed upon it.

Jesus tells us to pray that we may be worthy to escape the things that are coming to pass
Scripture has told us many many times that what we pray and ask for - we will receive it if we do not doubt that we will receive it
you , keras and others seem to not be praying to be worthy to be kept out of the GT and you most certainly reject and doubt any belief that Jesus will keep us out from the GT - therefore it is reasonable to believe that if we believe that Jesus said that if we are following Him and living as He has asked us to live Jesus will answer the prayer to be removed out from the GT- elementary simple
Revelation 3:10 Commentary - A Testimony of Jesus Christ
 
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seventysevens

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As we can see that various churches are in full participation of those things that Jesus said they need to repent of and if they repent he will forgive them .
Some will repent and some may not , those that do not will be permitted into Jesus Kingdom .
However the scripture --
Rev 3
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Jesus is making it very very clear that the people who have kept HIS Word to keep on keeping on - to not stray and keep the faith - to fight the good fight - to continue to abide in Christ Jesus no matter what tribulation you may have had to endure whether it be heavy persecution of your faith or any other hardships people have endured.
Jesus will keep those people out from the hour of trial that will come upon the earth -the hour of temptation -
Those who have accepted Jesus as savoir Prior to the GT will not go through it -like it or not !
There is no need for the words harpazo or raptus in this verse because the Almighty Himself declares that HE will keep those people who kept their faith in Him out from that hour that He spoke of which is the GT

However there will be people that did not accept Christ prior to the GT , who will not be part of the group of people who are kept out of the GT and will go through it ,
If They repent and accept Christ as savoir when they realize that the false messiah has come and refuse to accept the mark of the false messiah , they will be either killed as martyrs or part pf the group that finds shelter in Jordan/Petra and will be those that are "Gathered" together with those who were part pf the previous harpazo that happens before the GT takes place which is why the scripture in Matt 24 does not use harpazo or raptus and refers to the gathering together of those in heaven already with those on earth that were in Petra

Revelation 3:10 Commentary - A Testimony of Jesus Christ
 
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