7th Trumpet Rapture?

[Riberra]

That is a misleading misunderstanding that you have because you choose to leave out other scriptures to make that work for you - like removing the insole of a shoe to make it fit your foot - But it is NOT what ALL the scripture says - Just like your folly that demands that everyone would die during the Great Trib until I proved to you that not everyone does`

I never said that everyone die during the Great Tribulation ...

Jesus himself made it clear that you are wrong but you prefer a misleading and false view
At the rapture scripture clearly say it is a time of relief and comfort - which you deny`

A time of relief and comfort ---FOR the BELIEVERS WHO WILL STILL BE ALIVE AND REMAIN UNTO THE COMING OF THE LORD
1 Thessalonians 4:15-18
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that WE that are alive AND REMAIN Unto the Coming of the Lord, shall in no wise precede them that are fallen asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first; 17 then WE that are alive And REMAIN, shall together with them be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

At Jesus return it is a time of woes to the earth

At Jesus return ,the destruction of the wicked will happen at Armageddon while we will be in the Air with Jesus ...Revelation 19:11-21

 

[jerry kelso]

Jerry,



And what has that finished work accomplished?

It has accomplished "all" in the Scriptures I cited.

"All" is the Scriptures' conjecture and opinion, not mine.



Yes, the prophets. And the law of Moses. And the Psalms. He's in them all. He fulfills them all. "All the promises". "Heir of all things".

If He can't explain it very well, nobody can. Maybe it's because your perspective is not the same as His. Try changing to His.

We can't be certain why Christ didn't directly answer the disciples' question about the kingdom. But Christ had already earlier declared that the kingdom would be taken from Israel (Matthew 21:43). And the subject never again appears in the whole of the remainder of New Testament Scripture. The disciples had much more important issues and work to occupy them (Acts 1:8).



The Church already enjoys heavenly spiritual blessings and benefits which transcend natural and carnal ones (Hebrews 12:22-24), with heaven itself to follow. Who would want to regress? I certainly won't be.

jgr,

1. If the finished work has accomplished everything now then why is the millennial kingdom not here? I gotta go. I’ll be back at lunch . Jerry Kelso

 

[jgr]

jgr,

1. If the finished work has accomplished everything now then why is the millennial kingdom not here? I gotta go. I’ll be back at lunch . Jerry Kelso

It is. Daniel 2:44; Luke 12:32; Luke 17:20-21; John 18:36; Romans 14:17; Colossians 1:13; Hebrews 12:28.

 

[jerry kelso]

It is. Daniel 2:44; Luke 12:32; Luke 17:20-21; John 18:36; Romans 14:17; Colossians 1:13; Hebrews 12:28.

jgr,

1. You don’t understand biblical context at all.

2. Daniel 2:44 hasn’t happened yet or else Revelation 11:15 would have been fulfilled already and Christ would literally been reigning in earth.

3. Luke 11:32 in context is speaking about the spiritual KoG not the physical kingdom.

4. John 18:36; Jesus was speaking of his heavenly kingdom for the Jews rejected the KoH message Matthew 23:37-39. When he comes back at Armageddon at the 2nd advent he will be the potentate of the millennial kingdom.

5. Luke 17:20-21 is the spiritual aspect of the KoG not the physical KoH. The Jews were supposed to have the spiritual rule of God in their hearts in order to be eligible for the physical KoH Matthew 4:17; Repent for the KoH is at hand.

6. Roman’s 14:17 is the KoG in the church age which is spiritual. This is not about the physical KoH program with Israel.

7. Colossians 1:13 this is the spiritual act of salvation not the physical KoH program with the Jews.

8. Hebrews 12:28 is the future shaking of the earthly KoH in general of what will be shaken. Once again this has nothing to do with Israel’s earthly gifts and callings Roman’s 11:29.

9. You are wrong again because of wrong exegesis and wrong understanding of the big picture. Jerry Kelso

 

[seventysevens]

I never said that everyone die during the Great Tribulation ...

Yes, you have said it multiple times in multiple threads - you have said many times that all Christians will die as martyrs , saying that everyone will be beheaded ,then I told you about those who flee to Petra ,
1 Thess it states that we will be snatch away UNEXPECTEDLY - up into the clouds in the Air - Matt 24 is what you have always used as the rapture even though the rapture word is not there - It is a gathering of all saints from the previous rapture together with those who have made it through the GT

The post trib view having the rapture up into the clouds as Jesus is coming down makes no sense as Jesus is coming down and if we go up the it be a U turn to come right back down - there is no logic in that - If you say it is to receive the eternal body , well Jesus can speak a word and in a split second gives us that - so there would be no reason to be snatch up into the clouds just for that , notice that in Matt 24 it does not say anything about going up into the clouds

In order to understand properly you have to include ALL as in Every scripture of the rapture and the resurrection - first fruits - gleanings - harvests and have them in their proper sequence order
Just as in if someone asks if you know the numerals , if you start with 7 then go to 1 then to 5 - even if you get all 10 digits , if you don't have them 0 thru 9 or 1 thru 10 , it will be out of sequence and you fail .
Post trib get things out of sequence and refuse to include the gleanings , the 4 corner harvest and other scripture text matters that are also part of the topic

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
At Jesus return ,the destruction of the wicked will happen at Armageddon while we will be in the Air with Jesus ...Revelation 19:11-21

lol just hanging out up in the air while the battle of Armageddon is taking place down on earth , maybe you'll get to play some Air hockey , or Air guitar while you're waiting for the war to end

 

[BABerean2]

The post trib view having the rapture up into the clouds as Jesus is coming down makes no sense as Jesus is coming down and if we go up the it be a U turn to come right back down - there is no logic in that

Your viewpoint has Jesus doing a U turn, without any scripture to back it up...

.

 

[Riberra]

Yes, you have said it multiple times in multiple threads - you have said many times that all Christians will die as martyrs , saying that everyone will be beheaded ,then I told you about those who flee to Petra ,

No,i said that ALMOST (nearly) all the Christians who will refuse to worship the beast and refuse to take the mark will be killed...Obviously there will be Christians who will still be alive and remain Unto the Coming Of the Lord to fulfill 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 --- NOT JUST the GROUP OF (NEWLY CONVERTED) JEWS Revelation 11:13-14 [The Woman] Revelation 12:6-17 who will flee into the wilderness to be under God's protection at Petra.

Matt 24 is what you have always used as the rapture even though the rapture word is not there - It is a gathering of all saints from the previous rapture together with those who have made it through the GT

The angels will transport the believers to where Jesus will be at His Coming [Matthew 24:29-31]....That is the SAME CAUGHT UP AND GATHERING mentioned to happen UNTO The Coming of the Lord in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18

The post trib view having the rapture up into the clouds as Jesus is coming down makes no sense as Jesus is coming down and if we go up the it be a U turn to come right back down - there is no logic in that -

There is no U-TURN Jesus is not going back to Heaven.When Jesus will descend from Heaven that will be to establish His Kingdom on The Earth.

lol just hanging out up in the air while the battle of Armageddon is taking place down on earth , maybe you'll get to play some Air hockey , or Air guitar while you're waiting for the war to end

Jesus will destroy the wicked assembled at Armageddon in a matter of seconds...you will prefer to be in the air alongside of Jesus rather than being among those assembled on the battle ground when this happen Revelation 16:15-16....Revelation 19:11-21

Revelation 16:15-16
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walked naked, and they see his shame. 16 And they gathered them together into the place which is called in Hebrew Har-magedon.

Revelation 19:11-21
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat upon the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought the signs in his sight, wherewith he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast and them that worshipped his image: they two were cast alive into the lake of fire that burneth with brimstone:21 and the rest were killed with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, [even the sword] which came forth out of his mouth: and all the birds were filled with their flesh.

 

[Choose Wisely]

We have been down this road before.

You are making a case on a plural in the English, that does not exist in the Greek.


(KJV+) ButG1161 ofG4012 theG3588 timesG5550 andG2532 theG3588 seasons,G2540 brethren,G80 ye haveG2192 noG3756 needG5532 that I writeG1125 unto you.G5213

G5550
χρόνος
chronos
khron'-os
Of uncertain derivation; a space of time (in genitive case, and thus properly distinguished from G2540, which designates a fixed or special occasion; and from G165, which denotes a particular period) or interval; by extension an individual opportunity; by implication delay: - + years old, season, space, (X often-) time (-s), (a) while.
Total KJV occurrences: 53


G2540
καιρός
kairos
kahee-ros'
Of uncertain affinity; an occasion, that is, set or proper time: - X always, opportunity, (convenient, due) season, (due, short, while) time, a while. Compare G5550.
Total KJV occurrences: 86

Is the English letter "s" the foundation that your doctrine is built upon?

If it is... "OOOPS" would be an appropriate term.

Once a person comes to understand that the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, the Two Peoples of God doctrine falls apart, and its pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.

.

Ok........what was I thinking.........I was almost sure that all those language experts and translators knew more than you. Do you think they put the S on the end of time and season because it was their plan to change the word of God. It may be tough, but if you can get them to change it in the Bible......... I will believe you.

 

[Choose Wisely]

Just so as there is no confusion: I adamantly oppose the belief of Two People, Two Promises.

Oh........no. I don't think I'm going to be able to eat my Cheerios. Gosh, you've ruined my breakfast. I don't know what I'm going to do. Okay.............I've had a chance to gather my thoughts. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Here goes your lunch...........May a thousand Muslim Iotola's squat in your chili. There.....I'm good now.......... pass the milk.

There is and has always been, only one people of God. His believers, who keep the Commandments. The whole Israelite peoples never were 100% godly, in fact in Elijah's time, only 7000 remained faithful to God.
Now, we Gentile Christians are grafted into the Israel of God by our faith in Jesus.

Romans 11
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

God makes it pretty clear what he is going to do. I believe Him.

The real nonsense is the 'rapture to heaven' theory, that must have an Israel on earth, while the Church skives off to heaven. This idea is not Biblical, logical or even sensible and cannot happen.

Fortunately, I understand that both the Gentiles and the 12 twelve tribes will be in heaven for the marriage supper. The church will go pretrib and the 12 tribes all over the earth will go pre wrath. Then the wrath of God will begin and remnant in the nation of Israel will be protected on the wings of an eagle. That is the ones that run immediately as instructed.

 

[jgr]

jgr,

1. You don’t understand biblical context at all.

2. Daniel 2:44 hasn’t happened yet or else Revelation 11:15 would have been fulfilled already and Christ would literally been reigning in earth.

3. Luke 11:32 in context is speaking about the spiritual KoG not the physical kingdom.

4. John 18:36; Jesus was speaking of his heavenly kingdom for the Jews rejected the KoH message Matthew 23:37-39. When he comes back at Armageddon at the 2nd advent he will be the potentate of the millennial kingdom.

5. Luke 17:20-21 is the spiritual aspect of the KoG not the physical KoH. The Jews were supposed to have the spiritual rule of God in their hearts in order to be eligible for the physical KoH Matthew 4:17; Repent for the KoH is at hand.

6. Roman’s 14:17 is the KoG in the church age which is spiritual. This is not about the physical KoH program with Israel.

7. Colossians 1:13 this is the spiritual act of salvation not the physical KoH program with the Jews.

8. Hebrews 12:28 is the future shaking of the earthly KoH in general of what will be shaken. Once again this has nothing to do with Israel’s earthly gifts and callings Roman’s 11:29.

9. You are wrong again because of wrong exegesis and wrong understanding of the big picture. Jerry Kelso

Jerry,

Before we proceed further, I'd like you to answer one question from several posts back:

The Church is a spiritual nation distinguished by faith and obedience. What distinguishes the physical nation of Israel to which you refer?

Or, to rephrase:

The Church is a spiritual nation whose members can be recognized by their faith and obedience in and to Christ. Israel is a physical nation whose members can be recognized by _____?

Possible choices are, but not limited to: Ethnicity, culture, religion, citizenship.

What should appear in the blanks?

Thanks.

 

[seventysevens]

No,i said that ALMOST (nearly) all the Christians who will refuse to worship the beast and refuse to take the mark will be killed..

Yes you did ,as I made it a focal point of asking you to prove ANY scripture that identifies any Christian that has become a born-again Christian Prior to the beginning of the GT that would be in any part of it and of course you cannot find any such scripture -so I asked you to find any scripture that would indicate that IF the GT would start tomorrow that we would have to be in it and you said that we would have our heads chopped off - besides all that nonsense -
You still cannot find ANY scripture that shows that Jesus will cause HIS Bride to go through the GT if they are born again in HIS Spirit - because He removes them if they are ready when he comes in 1Thess

The angels will transport the believers to where Jesus will be at His Coming [Matthew 24:29-31]....That is the SAME CAUGHT UP AND GATHERING mentioned to happen UNTO The Coming of the Lord in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18

At 1 Thess 4 it is Jesus that snatches up the believers - not angels

In Matt24 it is the angels that are sent out to gather the saints from all of heaven and of earth -
At the rapture Jesus himself snatches people suddenly -
At His 2nd advent coming to earth Jesus sends his angels to gather all in heaven and earth together

Two different scenarios happening at two different time periods

You have to push that macho mindset of thinking people must go through the GT to prove they are worthy when it goes against Jesus word that the ONLY thing that makes a person worthy is Believing in HIM that Jesus will do as He says he will do
You show that you have no idea of why the GT will happen in the first place .
If all people accepted Jesus as Messiah there would not be a GT at all
It is because of the people who have rejected Jesus as Messiah that the GT occurs.

It is because people reject the true messiah that Almighty God sends the great delusion of the false messiah (aka Man of Sin/antichrist -in place of/replacement Christ-
Christ literally means the chosen one)

The false messiah will appeal to peoples sense of selfish desire to con them and then demands of them to obey and worship him
The ONLY repeat ONLY reason there will be a GT is solely because God is putting those people who reject Jesus thee Messiah/Christ on trial - a day of judgment to punish those that follow the false messiah instead of accepting the true messiah Jesus

So the plan of God is to send those people a lie that those people will believe the false messiah to be a real one and will follow the false messiah as their punishment for rejecting Jesus -which Jesus says that anyone who enters into the GT -that if they repent of their sins will be forgiven , but will have to live through the GT and those people who live through the GT will be those that will have children that will populate the earth through the 1000 year reign when satan is imprisoned in the abyss for the 1000 years

Those of us that are raptured before the GT /die as martyrs will receive our glorified bodies that do not need to produce children
the people that are reigned over during the 1000 years are the children that are born from those who made it through the GT alive and their children are those that will be deceived by satan after satan is released from the abyss after the 1000 years

What scripture do you have that shows that people who have received their eternal glorified body that will never die have children that will destroyed by God ?

Do you really believe that if those with a glorified body would have children that God would destroy them - it makes no sense at all to say that a perfect pure sinless body given to people by Jesus would produce a child that has sin -ridiculous !

There is even more that proves your view to be false and insufficient-

 

[BABerean2]

Ok........what was I thinking.........I was almost sure that all those language experts and translators knew more than you. Do you think they put the S on the end of time and season because it was their plan to change the word of God. It may be tough, but if you can get them to change it in the Bible......... I will believe you.

If you can show us the plurals in the Greek below, please do so.

a space of time

an occasion

(KJV+) ButG1161 ofG4012 theG3588 timesG5550 andG2532 theG3588 seasons,G2540 brethren,G80 ye haveG2192 noG3756 needG5532 that I writeG1125 unto you.G5213

G5550
χρόνος
chronos
khron'-os
Of uncertain derivation; a space of time (in genitive case, and thus properly distinguished from G2540, which designates a fixed or special occasion; and from G165, which denotes a particular period) or interval; by extension an individual opportunity; by implication delay: - + years old, season, space, (X often-) time (-s), (a) while.
Total KJV occurrences: 53


G2540
καιρός
kairos
kahee-ros'
Of uncertain affinity; an occasion, that is, set or proper time: - X always, opportunity, (convenient, due) season, (due, short, while) time, a while. Compare G5550.
Total KJV occurrences: 86

This may come as a shock to you, but the original Greek is the New Testament section of the Bible.
Everything else is a translation of the New Testament.

In the Greek the word "hieron" is used for the temple complex, but the Greek word "naos" is used for the inner sanctuary. They are not the same thing.
The KJV translates both of them as "temple".


.

 

[seventysevens]

If you can show us the plurals in the Greek below, please do so.

a space of time an occasion

(KJV+) ButG1161 ofG4012 theG3588 timesG5550 andG2532 theG3588 seasons,G2540 brethren,G80 ye haveG2192 noG3756 needG5532 that I writeG1125 unto you.G5213

G5550
χρόνος
chronos
khron'-os
Of uncertain derivation; a space of time (in genitive case, and thus properly distinguished from G2540, which designates a fixed or special occasion; and from G165, which denotes a particular period) or interval; by extension an individual opportunity; by implication delay: - + years old, season, space, (X often-) time (-s), (a) while.
Total KJV occurrences: 53


G2540
καιρός
kairos
kahee-ros'
Of uncertain affinity; an occasion, that is, set or proper time: - X always, opportunity, (convenient, due) season, (due, short, while) time, a while. Compare G5550.
Total KJV occurrences: 86
.

an occasion
as it says - a space of time , it can be several occasions depending on the rest of the context - it highlights a particular point in time - an anniversary or birthday that happens repeatedly are an occasion

 

[BABerean2]

an occasion
as it says - a space of time , it can be several occasions depending on the rest of the context - it highlights a particular point in time - an anniversary or birthday that happens repeatedly are an occasion

Maybe you have been married more than one time, which could produce more than one anniversary, but surely you only came out of your mother's womb one time...

.

 

[seventysevens]

Maybe you have been married more than one time, which could produce more than one anniversary,

a person needs to be married more than one time in order to produce an anniversary
an anniversary is something that happens once a year ,

 

[Choose Wisely]

If you can show us the plurals in the Greek below, please do so.

a space of time

an occasion

(KJV+) ButG1161 ofG4012 theG3588 timesG5550 andG2532 theG3588 seasons,G2540 brethren,G80 ye haveG2192 noG3756 needG5532 that I writeG1125 unto you.G5213

G5550
χρόνος
chronos
khron'-os
Of uncertain derivation; a space of time (in genitive case, and thus properly distinguished from G2540, which designates a fixed or special occasion; and from G165, which denotes a particular period) or interval; by extension an individual opportunity; by implication delay: - + years old, season, space, (X often-) time (-s), (a) while.
Total KJV occurrences: 53


G2540
καιρός
kairos
kahee-ros'
Of uncertain affinity; an occasion, that is, set or proper time: - X always, opportunity, (convenient, due) season, (due, short, while) time, a while. Compare G5550.
Total KJV occurrences: 86

This may come as a shock to you, but the original Greek is the New Testament section of the Bible.
Everything else is a translation of the New Testament.

In the Greek the word "hieron" is used for the temple complex, but the Greek word "naos" is used for the inner sanctuary. They are not the same thing.
The KJV translates both of them as "temple".


.

Like I said............I'll believe you............when you can get these experts to change what is written in the Bible. If what you're saying is true, they could easily have written..... "But of the time and season, brethren. But they didn't do that. Why don't you run with this.......if you are right, get them to fix it. Until then........

Unleash a copy and paste campaign that would make the world marvel.

 

[jerry kelso]

Jerry,

Before we proceed further, I'd like you to answer one question from several posts back:

The Church is a spiritual nation distinguished by faith and obedience. What distinguishes the physical nation of Israel to which you refer?

Or, to rephrase:

The Church is a spiritual nation whose members can be recognized by their faith and obedience in and to Christ. Israel is a physical nation whose members can be recognized by _____?

Possible choices are, but not limited to: Ethnicity, culture, religion, citizenship.

What should appear in the blanks?

Thanks.

jgr,

How many times must I answer this?
The physical nation has ancestral land that is promised to them and their children and their children’s children.
The physical nation is promised a throne in their country called the Davidic Throne where David will be King over Israel.
The physical nation is promised their physical capital to be their physical city called Jerusalem.
The physical son of Israel also who is deity, Jesus Christ the lamb slain for sinners will be King of Kings and Lord of Lords ruling with a rod of iron out of earthy Mt. Zion.
The son of Israel as Savior and God will save the backslidden physically and spiritually at Armageddon and then set up the KoH reign.
The church has none of these promises.

2. The true church is no backslidden and has not been trodden down under the feet of men in the manner of Israel past or the future time of Jacob’s trouble for the gates of hell shall never prevail against it.

3. I already mentioned things that a physical nation can be recognized by or for or because of etc. that the church cannot be.
Israel is backslidden and defeated in their covenant, the true church is not for they are overcomers.

4. The physical nation of Israel can be saved just like the church age saints and they will Be otherwise the KoH reign will never begin or happen.
Just like there were prophecies they would reject Christ the first time there are the promises they will accept him the Second time around to fulfill their gifts and callings according to their kingdom covenants of Abraham and David.

5. The church was promised salvation which is the death, burial, and resurrection. These were only in types and shadows from Israel.
The principle is the same as by grace and not works for Abraham and David both.
Abraham was not under the Mosaic law and David was under the Mosaic law.

6. Ethnicity and citizens will be determined by God and some Jews say that Elijah who will be one of the 2 witnesses, will help with who belongs to what tribe at the end of the tribulation before they are called.
It might be a possibility in the second half of the tribulation because of Israel’s nation almost being sniffed out.
In the First half the 12 tribes are sealed and those 144,000 are raptured as the manchild in the middle of the tribulation and seen in Heaven right after in Revelation 14:1-5.

7. Culture is Jewish in the KoH reign with the feasts and rulership in the Jewish country.
The New Covenant will still be the way of salvation.
The civil laws will have some from the Old and New Covenants both.
What you fail to realize is that God gave Abraham to be the Father of many nations and it would be through the nation God made him of which happened to become Israel.
God promises them eternal covenants that they would have a land and a throne forever. The only condition was obedience from the whole nation. This is tied into the fruition of the KoH reign and they rejected Christ when he offered them the Kingdom Matthew 23:37-39. It was never prophesied they would accept him. But the KoH offer was still valid and had to be offered.
The KoH reign is not here physically and will not be until the 2nd advent.

7. The church age saints are being trained now for rulership 2 Timoth 2:12 in the Kingdom on earth and throughout the universe. We are promised with positions throughout the kingdom.
The Jews have to go through the time of Jacob’s trouble which is Jewish, the church doesn’t have to be purified. Daniel 9:24 shows Israel having to be purified as well as Matthew 24 and Eevelation . I have to go but to suffice to say God promised Israel these promises and I have shown scriptures time and time again and trust me God doesn’t have to explain because he promised but the fact is he explained it so believe the truth. Jerry kelso

 

[jgr]

jgr,

How many times must I answer this?
The physical nation has ancestral land that is promised to them and their children and their children’s children.
The physical nation is promised a throne in their country called the Davidic Throne where David will be King over Israel.
The physical nation is promised their physical capital to be their physical city called Jerusalem.
The physical son of Israel also who is deity, Jesus Christ the lamb slain for sinners will be King of Kings and Lord of Lords ruling with a rod of iron out of earthy Mt. Zion.
The son of Israel as Savior and God will save the backslidden physically and spiritually at Armageddon and then set up the KoH reign.
The church has none of these promises.

2. The true church is no backslidden and has not been trodden down under the feet of men in the manner of Israel past or the future time of Jacob’s trouble for the gates of hell shall never prevail against it.

3. I already mentioned things that a physical nation can be recognized by or for or because of etc. that the church cannot be.
Israel is backslidden and defeated in their covenant, the true church is not for they are overcomers.

4. The physical nation of Israel can be saved just like the church age saints and they will Be otherwise the KoH reign will never begin or happen.
Just like there were prophecies they would reject Christ the first time there are the promises they will accept him the Second time around to fulfill their gifts and callings according to their kingdom covenants of Abraham and David.

5. The church was promised salvation which is the death, burial, and resurrection. These were only in types and shadows from Israel.
The principle is the same as by grace and not works for Abraham and David both.
Abraham was not under the Mosaic law and David was under the Mosaic law.

6. Ethnicity and citizens will be determined by God and some Jews say that Elijah who will be one of the 2 witnesses, will help with who belongs to what tribe at the end of the tribulation before they are called.
It might be a possibility in the second half of the tribulation because of Israel’s nation almost being sniffed out.
In the First half the 12 tribes are sealed and those 144,000 are raptured as the manchild in the middle of the tribulation and seen in Heaven right after in Revelation 14:1-5.

7. Culture is Jewish in the KoH reign with the feasts and rulership in the Jewish country.
The New Covenant will still be the way of salvation.
The civil laws will have some from the Old and New Covenants both.
What you fail to realize is that God gave Abraham to be the Father of many nations and it would be through the nation God made him of which happened to become Israel.
God promises them eternal covenants that they would have a land and a throne forever. The only condition was obedience from the whole nation. This is tied into the fruition of the KoH reign and they rejected Christ when he offered them the Kingdom Matthew 23:37-39. It was never prophesied they would accept him. But the KoH offer was still valid and had to be offered.
The KoH reign is not here physically and will not be until the 2nd advent.

7. The church age saints are being trained now for rulership 2 Timoth 2:12 in the Kingdom on earth and throughout the universe. We are promised with positions throughout the kingdom.
The Jews have to go through the time of Jacob’s trouble which is Jewish, the church doesn’t have to be purified. Daniel 9:24 shows Israel having to be purified as well as Matthew 24 and Eevelation . I have to go but to suffice to say God promised Israel these promises and I have shown scriptures time and time again and trust me God doesn’t have to explain because he promised but the fact is he explained it so believe the truth. Jerry kelso

Jerry,

You still haven't answered this question, which is why I keep asking it.

So I'll see if I can qualify it.

Please choose one or more from the following list, and add any more one-word qualifiers that you believe apply.

Please do not launch into another extended monologue that clarifies nothing.

You've said that DNA (ethnicity) does not qualify, so I've left it out.

A Jew whom God considers chosen is recognizable by one or more of:

Religion (i.e. Judaism), culture (i.e. food etc.), citizenship (i.e. a duly registered citizen of Israel), domicile (i.e. physically lives within Israel's borders)

Which one(s) and what else, if anything?

 

[Riberra]

You have to push that macho mindset of thinking people must go through the GT to prove they are worthy when it goes against Jesus word that the ONLY thing that makes a person worthy is Believing in HIM that Jesus will do as He says he will do

What Jesus said is that if you believe in HIM your SOUL WILL BE SAVED IE That you will not end into the Lake of Fire like the unrepentant sinners Revelation 20:15
Revelation 20:15
15 And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

You show that you have no idea of why the GT will happen in the first place .
If all people accepted Jesus as Messiah there would not be a GT at all

Of course ...and if the Jews had accepted Jesus as their Messiah 2,000 years ago there would have been no Gentiles who would have been grafted into the olive tree and be part of the promises ...

It is because of the people who have rejected Jesus as Messiah that the GT occurs.

It is because people reject the true messiah that Almighty God sends the great delusion of the false messiah (aka Man of Sin/antichrist -in place of/replacement Christ-
Christ literally means the chosen one)

True ,but Paul tell us that a massive departure from the faith in Jesus will happen among the Believers (APOSTASY) before the man of sin will be revealed.

The false messiah will appeal to peoples sense of selfish desire to con them and then demands of them to obey and worship him
The ONLY repeat ONLY reason there will be a GT is solely because God is putting those people who reject Jesus thee Messiah/Christ on trial - a day of judgment to punish those that follow the false messiah instead of accepting the true messiah Jesus

Yes ,all those who reject the true Gospel of Jesus that Jesus SAVE OUR SOUL ,and have replacing it by the pre-tribulation rapture theory who falsely claim that Jesus will save our flesh body from any tribulation(s) be it small or Great , will worship the Beast and will take the mark to save their life.

John 17:15 (KJV)
I pray not that you should take them out of the World, but that you should keep them from the evil one.

 

[jerry kelso]

Jerry,

You still haven't answered this question, which is why I keep asking it.

So I'll see if I can qualify it.

Please choose one or more from the following list, and add any more one-word qualifiers that you believe apply.

Please do not launch into another extended monologue that clarifies nothing.

You've said that DNA (ethnicity) does not qualify, so I've left it out.

A Jew whom God considers chosen is recognizable by one or more of:

Religion (i.e. Judaism), culture (i.e. food etc.), citizenship (i.e. a duly registered citizen of Israel), domicile (i.e. physically lives within Israel's borders)

Which one(s) and what else, if anything?

jgr,

1. DNA is not the deciding factor for their gifts and callings otherwise they wouldn’t have to be saved.

2. The true church is comprised of only saved people and it doesn’t have nothing to do with DNA.

3. Why do you keep shunning the truth?
If God had promised the church the land and throne and the feasts etc. he would have given them the land and the throne and a specific country and a specific city as the capital of the earth.

4. Salvation and rulership positions are two different things.
All saints have to be saved in order to rule in the KoH reign.
Are going to get mad at another Christian gets a seemingly higher position of authority than you?
Israel has the eternal promise of God when they all become saved in the overall picture.
Those in the church age’s position of authority has to do with stewardship.
Israel’s calling is earthly and the Churches calling is Heavenly, both earth and the rest of. The universe. God said it, I believe it and that settles it.

5. Messianic Jews still practice Judaism under the New Covenant standards for they are a part of the church of Jews and Gentiles.
The KoH will slightly be different because of the nature of the theocracy.

6. Jews will be real Jews by blood and what tribe they belong to.
It doesn’t mean that people who are not Jewish can’t live in their country.
The United States is American and we have a melting pot and if they become a citizen they are an American citizen but the natural born citizens are still the root of being an American.
You probably want to make an argument of no pure American stock or Jewish stock and put the church in it’s place but that is not what God said.
We know he said Israel his chosen people and the apple of his eye will inherit the land and the throne.
There is no scripture that says the nation of Israel has ever or ever will be transferred to the church age saints.
Jerry kelso