7th Trumpet Rapture?

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keras

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You have a severe lack of ability to truly understand the bible principles
THAT IS WHY you refuse to present a case for your belief !
You place yourself up on high to decide that other views are wrong but you are incapable of proving it and that is why you are too afraid to attempt to present a case !
You have no case that you can defend so you cry about not needing to present a case
you have no case you have no credibility ! Yet you choose to be condescending and bitter and mean in your failed attempt to prove anything ,. you cannot prove me wrong and you cannot prove your self right and you know it so you choose to try to be judge of matters you do not even understand
You are the accuser it is Your responsibility to prove your case - you know you cannot so you are just being vindictive and spiteful because you know you cannot prove what you say is valid
Using words like 'bitter and mean, vindictive and spiteful', against me; shows your true colors. You fail to prove the false 'rapture to heaven' theory, so you turn nasty and try make out that I have no proof. Which I have presented in #864 and in all my posts on the 'rapture'.

Get this: YOU have no proof and your beliefs are wrong.
My Christian brother: give up the false idea of a rapture, change your mind to the truth, however hard it may be for you and the load of error will lift from you. THEN, you will be truly a child of the Light and then we will encourage one another and build each other up... 1 Thessalonians 5:1-11
 
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BABerean2

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baberean2,

1. You just outright lied.
I did not say that nobody believes the New Covenant is not in effect.
I said it was in effect since the cross and will be in the tribulation as well. I demand an apology right now!!!!!!!

You said in Post #855...

"7. Nobody denies the NC connection to the church or the New Testament connection to the Old Testament or vice versa."

Bryan Denlinger does deny that the New Covenant is now in effect.
See Post #856.


.
 
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seventysevens

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It is the truth that your comments are exactly that - you often say mean disrespectful statements - if you stop doing it I will stop bringing it to your attention
simple if you don't want to be reminded of saying those things just control yourself and stop saying it

Get this: YOU have no proof and your beliefs are wrong.

Stop whining and crying and just prove your case - oh but you know you are not able to so you continue to whine about




Using words like 'bitter and mean, vindictive and spiteful', against me; shows your true colors. You fail to prove the false 'rapture to heaven' theory, so you turn nasty and try make out that I have no proof. Which I have presented in #864 and in all my posts on the 'rapture'.

Get this: YOU have no proof and your beliefs are wrong.
 
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jerry kelso

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(God makes the declaration to illustrate the completion of the law, it is one action of euthanasia....................God does not kill humanity for the revelation in phases)
(God told Abraham in Genesis 18, "I will perform one Action of Euthanasia" at the appointed time, "I will not kill in stages or percentages, until I perform the action")

(Once the "Two Witnesses are Dead", God kills Seven Billion People) (There's no Sign of Divorce to modify God's Discernment beyond a limited geographic area)

Coincidentally! (Seventh Trumpet is Blown!)
Documentary Explaining End Times - What The Bible Has To Say
youtube.com/watch?v=B0rTk9IAwwg


JOSHUA 6:5 And it shall come to pass, that when they make a long [blast] with the ram's horn, [and] when ye hear the sound of the trumpet, all the people shall shout with a great shout; and the wall of the city shall fall down flat, and the people shall ascend up every man straight before him.
JOSHUA 6:6 And Joshua the son of Nun called the priests, and said unto them, Take up the ark of the covenant, and let seven priests bear seven trumpets of rams' horns before the ark of the LORD.

(That word "him", you can substitute for the "Two Witnesses", when God allows Moses to die, or kills Moses, then Seven Billion People are put to death, God sends an Angel to Blow the Seventh Trumpet)

(When God does kill, that is the "Rapture", there's no Warning before that. But, after that the Remnant that is left alive will gather together to "Joseph the Blessings" for 5 months, that is all the time you are allowed from God for this process of the Seed Population) (9/11/2001 Falling Man Moses, is only the beginning, God hasn't used the body of Moses to detonate a Nuclear Bomb equivalent, in "pain for pain" as declared in revelation 11, so there are levels we need to see happen)

g001,

1. The declaration of the law ending causing one act of euthanasia? Christ committed euthanasia?

2. Sodom and Gomorrah was euthanasia?

3. Two Witnesses die is yes, but where is the 7 billion killed figure?
It says 7000 slain of men.

4. Who’s divorce? God divorced Israel as portrayed with Hosea having to marry Gomer the harlot.

5. Geographically will be Revised Roman Empire in that day concerning maybe where the action could be happening is thought to be by some.

6. Moses died so I don’t think he can ever be one of the two witnesses, though I know the argument.

7. It is true about 7 trumpets blowing and it happens more than once but there’s no proof that the 7th trumpet blows when the rapture happens or at least the 7 th trumpet in Revelation 11:15.

8. Your level theory I don’t beis quite on level of the biblical truth. Jerry kelso
 
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BABerean2

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but there’s no proof that the 7th trumpet blows when the rapture happens or at least the 7 th trumpet in Revelation 11:15.


1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.



Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Can you show us the 8th trumpet in the Book of Revelation?

.
 
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Micah888

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... there’s no proof that the 7th trumpet blows when the rapture happens or at least the 7 th trumpet in Revelation 11:15...
Correct. A lot of people try to make a connection between the 7th trumpet of Revelation (an expression of God's WRATH) and the "last trump" or "the trump of God" which is a Rapture summons (an expression of grace, mercy, and SALVATION).
The Rapture occurs long before the seven trumpet judgments, and just because "trumpet" is common has no bearing at all.
 
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jerry kelso

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You said in Post #855...

"7. Nobody denies the NC connection to the church or the New Testament connection to the Old Testament or vice versa."

Bryan Denlinger does deny that the New Covenant is now in effect.
See Post #856.


.

baberean2,

1. This is an old argument that I had forgotten about and probably never studied much.

2. He is correct that the New Covenant was only offered to the nation of Israel in Jeremiah 31. I have said that before myself.
It is really God making the New Covenant only with the nation of Israel which was conditional in Jesus Day for they were to repent and they rejected Christ.
God knows their hearts and will know their hearts in that day and that they will accept Christ and he will put his law into their minds and all will know the Lord and not have to be taught of anyone etc. This has never happened to Israel or even the church.
This is talking about life in the KoH reign not the church age.

3. The church was chosen before the foundation of the world and predestination unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself according to the pleasure of his will Ephesians 1:4-5.

4. Matthew 26:28; For this is MY BLOOD of the NEW TESTAMENT which is SHED for MANY for the REMISSIONS of SINS.
2 Corinthians 3:6; Who also HAS MADE US ABLE MINISTERS Of THE NEW TESTAMENT.
1 Corinthians 12:25; This cup is the New Testament In my blood.


5. All of Jesus ministry in the first commission was the KoH and KoG message to the Jews and not the church Matthew 10:6-7. This was till the rejection of Israel Matthew 23:37-39.
Then he started telling his disciples about having to be killed and they didn’t understand like Peter; Matthew 16:21-23.

6. I can’t remember if there is a plain statement of the church being under the New Covenant?
Hebrews 8:6 says Christ is the mediator of a better covenant.
V7 says that if the First covenant had been faultless , then should no place be sought for the second. That indicates a second covenant. Then he goes into the KoH days when he makes the NC with the nation of Israel.

7. Hebrews 9:1 Then verily the first covenant..........
Verse 15; And for this cause he is the mediator of the NEW TESTAMENT, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the FIRST TESTAMENT, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Verse 16; For where there is a testament is, there must also be a necessity of the testator.
Verse 17; For a Testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all.
Verse 18; Whereupon neither the First Testament was dedicated without blood.
Verse 20; the blood of the testament referring to the New Testament of the cross.
Hebrews 13:20; blood of the everlasting covenant which was Jesus Christ crucified.

8. It is interesting to note that the term New Testament is used describing the boos of the cross and Christ crucified and ministers of the New Testament etc.

9. As a whole he is right and this definitely distinguished both the program of the KoH and the KoG message to the Jewish Nation and the program of the church today.

10. The blood of the Testament was used in the terms Old and New Testaments both which seems to me to make sense that Galatians 3:16–19 that salvation
is the subject of Abraham concerning the seed not all the blessings of Abraham concerning the KoH reign and Israel’s New Covenant.
It is late and I have to to work tomorrow but this will suffice for now. Jerry kelso
 
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jgr

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God said the nation of Israel and Judah will be made one stick as God’s people not as Gentiles.
They will be pure Jewish stock or natural born or what God constitutes the real Jew.

jerry,

There was never any pure Jewish stock, nor could there be. That would have necessitated exclusively incestuous relationships among Abraham's descendants, which would have ultimately resulted in the demise of the lineage from degenerative mutations.

Jewish DNA was mixed from the very beginning.

Israel's racial composition at the beginning of their covenant history (and subsequently throughout) is seen here:

Genesis 17:12
And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

Nonethnic Israelites ("not of thy seed") who were circumsized, and subsequently complied with covenant requirements necessitating faith and obedience in and to God and His commandments, were considered fully integrated members of the nation, and were not in any way segregated racially or spiritually.

Leviticus 19:34
The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.


So when did God abandon faith and obedience as the sole distinguishing characteristics of His covenant people as at the beginning; and start to replace faith and obedience with DNA?

I'll presupply the answer.

He never did, and He never will.
 
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jerry kelso

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1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.



Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Can you show us the 8th trumpet in the Book of Revelation?

.

1. There are many trumpets blown during the feasts.

2. The last Trump is because there are 7 trumpets and the 7 vials must follow after.
The day of the Lord can’t take place after the 7 vials. That is foolish thinking.

2. The mystery of God finished was not the second advent for all Old Testament saints knew about that.
The mystery was and is and will be the accuser of the brethren not being able to do that again in Heaven anymore Revelation 12:10-13 or somewhere in there.

3. Time of the dead judged is that they will first be killed at Armageddon and then judged 1000 years after the millennial kingdom at the GWTJ and thrown into the Lake of Fire Revelation 20:12-15.

4. Do you see an eighth trumpet?
You are wrong again!!! Jerry Kelso
 
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BABerean2

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1. There are many trumpets blown during the feasts.

2. The last Trump is because there are 7 trumpets and the 7 vials must follow after.
The day of the Lord can’t take place after the 7 vials. That is foolish thinking.

2. The mystery of God finished was not the second advent for all Old Testament saints knew about that.
The mystery was and is and will be the accuser of the brethren not being able to do that again in Heaven anymore Revelation 12:10-13 or somewhere in there.

3. Time of the dead judged is that they will first be killed at Armageddon and then judged 1000 years after the millennial kingdom at the GWTJ and thrown into the Lake of Fire Revelation 20:12-15.

4. Do you see an eighth trumpet?
You are wrong again!!! Jerry Kelso

In other words the Bible does not mean what is says in Revelation 11:18, because it destroys your Pre-mill doctrine...


Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

.
 
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Choose Wisely

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1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.



Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Can you show us the 8th trumpet in the Book of Revelation?

.
Lots of holes in your logic...........as usual.

You say that 1 thes 4:16 is talking about the same thing as 1 Cor 15:52

1 Thes 4
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Then you turn around and say that the last trump is the seventh trumpet blown by an angel. How can the last trump be blown by an angel when you compare it to the trump of God which is the voice of God.

The last trump is blown on the Feast of Trumpets and has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the 7th trump blown by an angel.

As usual your logic falls apart.
 
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seventysevens

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In other words the Bible does not mean what is says in Revelation 11:18, because it destroys your Pre-mill doctrine...

.
Pre mill is the only doctrine that lines up with what Scripture teaches, your false beliefs is what is in tatters
 
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jerry kelso

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In other words the Bible does not mean what is says in Revelation 11:18, because it destroys your Pre-mill doctrine...


Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

.

berean2,

1. It does mean what it says but you’re confused on the time factor. Jerry kelso
 
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jerry kelso

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jerry,

There was never any pure Jewish stock, nor could there be. That would have necessitated exclusively incestuous relationships among Abraham's descendants, which would have ultimately resulted in the demise of the lineage from degenerative mutations.

Jewish DNA was mixed from the very beginning.

Israel's racial composition at the beginning of their covenant history (and subsequently throughout) is seen here:

Genesis 17:12
And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

Nonethnic Israelites ("not of thy seed") who were circumsized, and subsequently complied with covenant requirements necessitating faith and obedience in and to God and His commandments, were considered fully integrated members of the nation, and were not in any way segregated racially or spiritually.

Leviticus 19:34
The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.


So when did God abandon faith and obedience as the sole distinguishing characteristics of His covenant people as at the beginning; and start to replace faith and obedience with DNA?

I'll presupply the answer.

He never did, and He never will.

jgr,

1. One could say that Abraham was a heathen, which he was, and be cause of it the Jewish was never really pure Jewish stock.

2. There were also gentiles in the lineage of Christ. This signifies that gentiles would be saved as well.

3. The stranger at the gate the Jew was to be nice to and the proselyted would be recognized as a Jew practicing Judaism.

4. There has always been faith and obedience for without faith it is impossible to please God and there are plenty of Hall of Faithers in Hebrews 11, from the Old Testament.

5. Israel’s dna as the apple of God’s eye has to do with the everlasting and unconditional convenants of Abraham and David which was never promised to the church. It is the promise of the father for his chosen people.
I have to go back to work but I’ll be back later. Feel free to comment if you would like to. Jerry Kelso
 
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jgr

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Israel’s dna as the apple of God’s eye has to do with the everlasting and unconditional convenants of Abraham and David which was never promised to the church.

jerry,

They were promised to Christ who in turn promised them to the Church (Galatians 3:16,28,29; 2 Corinthians 1:20; Hebrews 1:1,2; Romans 8:16,17). DNA is unseen in these verses, in fact specifically excluded in Galatians 3:28,29.

It is the promise of the father for his chosen people.

DNA has never been a criterion for chosenness, from the very beginning as seen in Genesis 17:12. God's criteria for chosennness have ever and only been faith and obedience. Without consideration for their DNA, He slew thousands under the old covenant who disbelieved and disobeyed.

Hebrews 10:28
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
 
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seventysevens

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BABerean2

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Israel’s dna as the apple of God’s eye has to do with the everlasting and unconditional convenants of Abraham and David which was never promised to the church. It is the promise of the father for his chosen people.

The "unconditional" covenant made with Abraham is found below.


Mat 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.


Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.


Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

.
 
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jerry kelso

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jerry,

They were promised to Christ who in turn promised them to the Church (Galatians 3:16,28,29; 2 Corinthians 1:20; Hebrews 1:1,2; Romans 8:16,17). DNA is unseen in these verses, in fact specifically excluded in Galatians 3:28,29.



DNA has never been a criterion for chosenness, from the very beginning as seen in Genesis 17:12. God's criteria for chosennness have ever and only been faith and obedience. Without consideration for their DNA, He slew thousands under the old covenant who disbelieved and disobeyed.

Hebrews 10:28
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

jgr,

1. All these verses are about salvation not the KoH reign about the land of Israel, Jerusalem the capital and Israel being the capital and head of the nations in the millennial kingdom.

2. The criterion has never been about DNA and I have always said that.
The KoH message in the Abrahamic and Davidic Covenants are both eternal unconditional Covenants as far as they would always come to pass.
The one condition for these to come to pass was obedience of the nation.
Matthew 23:37-39 is the rejection of Israel and Matthew 24:1-2 is the punishment which happened in 70 A. D.
They are still backslidden as a nation.

3. I have said that it wasn’t DNA and gave the example of Ezekiel 18.

4. What you fail to understand whereas, the condition is obedience God chose physical Israel as a physical nation with physical land, a physical throne
and his chosen people who he gave the oracles of God and covenants forever with the position in the KoH at the Head of the nations Isaiah 2:2-4.
Genesis 12-15; 2 Samuel 7:13-16; 1 Chronicles 28:1-8, Isaiah 2:2-4; 9:6-7; 66:8-24; Jeremiah 31:36; Daniel 9:24; Romans 11:25-29 etc.
God chose them to be in the position in the millennial kingdom because he promised and will not go against that promise!!!!!!!!!Who is anyone that should argue against God. Israel told God he was unfair and not equal in Ezekiel 18 and saying that he didn’t choose Israel to be in the KoH at the Head of the nations is saying he is unfair and saying he is respect of persons because they feel it makes more sense to have Gentile and Jew of the church age together. Sounds like a political right view.
Ezekiel 37:16-28 talks about Israel and Judah will be one with David as King and the covenant of peace and the everlasting covenant. Judah is where Christ came out of and where the throne will be.
Christ gave the KoH reign promises which is why Israel being restored is in connection with it Read the book of Joel and Acts 2-3.
God said Israel will be at the head of the nations and there is nothing anybody can do about it for God has promised which is unbreakable Romans 11:29;25-29. Jerry Kelso
 
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jerry kelso

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The "unconditional" covenant made with Abraham is found below.


Mat 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.


Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.


Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

.

baberean2,

1. Matthew 11 is in context of the KoH Message to the Jews Matthew 10:6-7.

2. Galatians is speaking of salvation which is not the KoH message. You are wrong again.
God said Israel would be at the head of the nations and he will not break his promise which are eternal 2 Samuel 7:13-16, 1 Chronicles 28:1-7; Isaiah 2:2-4; 9:6-7; 66:8–24; Daniel 9:24; Roman’s 11:25-29 etc.
God said believe it!!!!!!!Jerry Kelso
 
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