7th Trumpet Rapture?

[jerry kelso]

Actually, I think that I was being kind to Jerry, telling him; in a non judgmental way, that his posts make him appear uneducated.
Any theory, idea or doctrine that has no scriptural support, is wild and foolish.

To heaven.
He is the Man who came from heaven and only He can go there. John 3:13

What you should doubt, is the teachings that promise removal from tribulations, when scripture plainly says we will face trials and tribulations. 1 Peter 4:12-19
Note in Hebrews 12:8 If you escape the discipline that all true children share, then you must be illegitimate and not a true child of God.

Matthew 24:31.....heavens in that verse is 'ouranios', Strongs 3770 - Belonging to or coming from the sky. Nothing to do with the 3rd heaven, where God lives.

keras,

1. You are being ridiculous.
You accuse me of being a know it all and I toned it down for you and gave you scriptural truth and context and reconciliation of the scripture and you think a couple of scriptures would do. Not to mention that you won’t try to answer my questions? Why because you say pretend that they are so far out there they are not worth commenting on.
You have dissed the way I post and say they are not understandable.
The point is your posts are hypocritical.
The point is you just pointed out in this post to Dougg your motive is the one that seeks to make me appear educated which is belittling me.
I even went one issue at a time and you just dissed half of those posts and you call yourself a teacher of Prophetic studies.

2. Personally, I am not bothered by you except for the fact you are not being truthful or fair to exegesis.

3. In John 3:13 you try to prove Jesus is the only one who has been to Heaven and the only one that can go to Heaven.
That is contradictory to the word.
Enoch and Elijah have both been in Heaven for thousands of years.
Why? The Bible says so in Genesis 5:24 that Enoch took him for walking in faith and 2 Kings 2:1 was even plainer for Elijah would be taken to Heaven by a whirlwind and verse 11 was in a chariot of fire and horses of fire.
So you are wrong.

4. 1 Peter 4:12-19 is talking about
in our lifetime during the church age.
1 Timothy 2:12 says if we suffer we shall reign.
There is no mention in either account about beyond the church age.
Paul said Israel’s blindness is still there until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in which is the church for the church is to make Israel the nation so they will come back to God Romans 11:11.
Verse 25 the church will be removed so Israel will be restored to their place at the head of the nations Isaiah 2:24.
Hebrews 12:8 being chastened in one’s personal life is necessary and the future time of Jacob’s trouble is not in this context.

5. Matthew 24:31; the angels are coming from the sky to gather the elect from the four winds from one end of Heaven to the other.
Ezekiel 37:9; Isaiah 43:5-6; Mark 13:27 and Revelation 7:1 are all references to the earth.
If you are trying to convince everybody that this is your transportation theory then you are wrong according to the scripture for they are talking about the Jewish remnant on earth. Also, there is nothing about Christ bringing back the dead with him.
You are out of context and your assessment is dead wrong.
Jerry kelso

 

[Douggg]

You said...

"Jesus is the arch angel, the highest of the messengers of God. The voice of the arnch angel is the voice of Jesus.

Differently the trumpets in Revelation are blown by the 7 angels."

If you say Jesus is an angel and then say the 7 trumpets blown in Revelation cannot be Jesus because they are blown by angels, then you have most certainly created your own contradiction.
.

Not angel in the same sense. The 7 angels who blow the 7 trumpets are an order of created beings.

Angel - the word means messenger.

In his messages to the seven churches, Jesus says to each - to mine angel of _____. The churches are angels in the sense they are the messengers of the gospel.

The arch angel is the highest messenger of the gospel - which of course is Jesus.

 

[Douggg]

But the 7th Trump is blown with only a few days (I believe 75 days) left before Jesus returns. The First Seal is the Anti-Christ Beast who comes forth at the 1260 in he Middle of the week.

RT, the Anti-Christ Beast is a mis-nomer. It is either being the Antichrist - or being the beast, but not being both at the same time.

There are two tracks to the person. That of becoming the Anti-Christ, King of Israel (illegitimate).

And that of becoming the King of the Roman Empire, fourth kingdom. In the end times - the EU. King, as the little horn, the 7th king.
And later, after his Antichrist stint, King as the beast, the 8th king.

Progressively, it looks like this:
little horn(before the 7 years) -> Antichrist (first part of the 7 years) -> beast (second part of the 7 years).

In Revelation 6, he is riding the white horse, same a Jesus, the rightful King of israel, who rides a white horse. The crown the person is given is that of being the King of Israel, to start the seven years.

Other than that - most of Revelation is about the person in the King of the Roman Empire track. The EU will be his kingdom. It will become the dominant kingdom over the rest of the world at that time, during the last 42 months. The United States and Canada will probably be aligned with the EU.

RT, I think you will be making a giant step in your eschatology if you grab hold of the two track concept.
_______________________________________________________________

There are the 75 days difference between the AoD is setup and the two witnesses are killed.

1335 days before Jesus returns, the AoD will be setup to be worshiped. The AoD will be the image of the beast. On day 1185. From day 1185 to day 1260, the Jews are fleeing while the two witnesses battle the beast.

Getting back to day 1185, AoD setup day, - 1290 days from then is when the sixth seal event takes place - on day 2475, 45 days before Jesus returns, the world will see Jesus in the third heaven before the throne of God.

RT, the above placement on the timeline, puts all the like timeframes together.

1260 days, Revelation 11:3, 12:6 together

42 months, Revelation 11:2, 13:5 together

time, times, half times, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7, Revelation 12:14 together.

The 1260 days in Revelation 12:6 are before the war in heaven in Revelation 12:7 which that war leaves Satan with a time, times, half times in Revelation 12:14.

Together they are the seven years, the first part, and the second part.

 

[BABerean2]

WOW LOOK AT THIS! INTERESTING... It jumps from Testament, to covenant, to a will, from a testator, to ''the one who made it''. Funny, LOL
Yea, hath God said?

Yea, what did God say in the Greek?

Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mat 26:28 ForG1063 thisG5124 isG2076 myG3450 bloodG129 of(G3588) theG3588 newG2537 testament,G1242 which is shedG1632 forG4012 manyG4183 forG1519 the remissionG859 of sins.G266


Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Heb 12:24 AndG2532 to JesusG2424 the mediatorG3316 of the newG3501 covenant,G1242 andG2532 to the bloodG129 of sprinkling,G4473 that speakethG2980 better thingsG2909 thanG3844 that of Abel.G6


G1242
διαθήκη
diathēkē
dee-ath-ay'-kay
From G1303; properly a disposition, that is, (specifically) a contract (especially a devisory will): - covenant, testament.
Total KJV occurrences: 33

In the Greek the same word "diatheke" is used in Matthew 26:28, and again in Hebrews 12:24.
In one place the KJV translators used the English word "testament" and in the other place they used the English word "covenant".
However, it is the same Greek word "diatheke".


Is it "funny" that some of us do not seem to understand the New Covenant of Christ promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8?

...................................................

Why do those in the New Covenant not need a human teacher?

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

...........................................................

If the New Covenant is not now, then you must have cut Hebrews 8:6 out of your Bible.

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

The New Covenant: Bob George

..................................................................

You are promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine that John Nelson Darby brought to America, about the time of the Civil War, and you are worried about me...

.

 

[jerry kelso]

Yea, what did God say in the Greek?

Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mat 26:28 ForG1063 thisG5124 isG2076 myG3450 bloodG129 of(G3588) theG3588 newG2537 testament,G1242 which is shedG1632 forG4012 manyG4183 forG1519 the remissionG859 of sins.G266


Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Heb 12:24 AndG2532 to JesusG2424 the mediatorG3316 of the newG3501 covenant,G1242 andG2532 to the bloodG129 of sprinkling,G4473 that speakethG2980 better thingsG2909 thanG3844 that of Abel.G6


G1242
διαθήκη
diathēkē
dee-ath-ay'-kay
From G1303; properly a disposition, that is, (specifically) a contract (especially a devisory will): - covenant, testament.
Total KJV occurrences: 33

In the Greek the same word "diatheke" is used in Matthew 26:28, and again in Hebrews 12:24.
In one place the KJV translators used the English word "testament" and in the other place they used the English word "covenant".
However, it is the same Greek word "diatheke".


Is it "funny" that some of us do not seem to understand the New Covenant of Christ promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8?

...................................................

Why do those in the New Covenant not need a human teacher?

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

...........................................................

If the New Covenant is not now, then you must have cut Hebrews 8:6 out of your Bible.

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

The New Covenant: Bob George

..................................................................

You are promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine that John Nelson Darby brought to America, about the time of the Civil War, and you are worried about me...

.

baberean2,

1. Jesus is our mediator now for he is ever interceding for us.

2. The Holy Spirit is our teacher and the body of Christ has teachers.

3. Jeremiah 31:31 the New Covenant was offered to Israel and they rejected it Matthew 23:37-39.
The KoH program ended Matthew 1:6-7.
The church age began in Acts 2 with Israel.
The KoH and Israel’s gifts and callings are different from the church of Jew and Gentile gifts and callings.
It did start with the nation of Israel that Peter addressed but the nation was not going to be restored and fulfill their gifts and callings concerning the KoH and they didn’t.
All Israel didn’t get saved like Paul said they would in the future in Romans 11:26-29.

4. If it makes you feel better to say Jeremiah was fulfilled with Israel on the DoP then fine but it would still be partial to the context.
The fact remains that backslidden Israel and Judah will receive the New Covenant in the time of Jacob’s trouble and will be restored to their land and the throne promised to them through their eternal covenants 2 Samuel 7:13-16; 1 Chronicles 28:1-8; Isaiah 2:2-4; Ezekiel 37:16-28.

5. Are you going to keep ignoring this truth in scripture? Jerry kelso

 

[jerry kelso]

Yea, what did God say in the Greek?

Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mat 26:28 ForG1063 thisG5124 isG2076 myG3450 bloodG129 of(G3588) theG3588 newG2537 testament,G1242 which is shedG1632 forG4012 manyG4183 forG1519 the remissionG859 of sins.G266


Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Heb 12:24 AndG2532 to JesusG2424 the mediatorG3316 of the newG3501 covenant,G1242 andG2532 to the bloodG129 of sprinkling,G4473 that speakethG2980 better thingsG2909 thanG3844 that of Abel.G6


G1242
διαθήκη
diathēkē
dee-ath-ay'-kay
From G1303; properly a disposition, that is, (specifically) a contract (especially a devisory will): - covenant, testament.
Total KJV occurrences: 33

In the Greek the same word "diatheke" is used in Matthew 26:28, and again in Hebrews 12:24.
In one place the KJV translators used the English word "testament" and in the other place they used the English word "covenant".
However, it is the same Greek word "diatheke".


Is it "funny" that some of us do not seem to understand the New Covenant of Christ promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8?

...................................................

Why do those in the New Covenant not need a human teacher?

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

...........................................................

If the New Covenant is not now, then you must have cut Hebrews 8:6 out of your Bible.

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

The New Covenant: Bob George

..................................................................

You are promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine that John Nelson Darby brought to America, about the time of the Civil War, and you are worried about me...

.

baberean2,

1. Jesus is our mediator now for he is ever interceding for us.

2. The Holy Spirit is our teacher and the body of Christ has teachers.

3. Jeremiah 31:31 the New Covenant was offered to Israel and they rejected it Matthew 23:37-39.
The KoH program ended Matthew 1:6-7.
The church age began in Acts 2 with Israel.
The KoH and Israel’s gifts and callings are different from the church of Jew and Gentile gifts and callings.
It did start with the nation of Israel that Peter addressed but the nation was not going to be restored and fulfill their gifts and callings concerning the KoH and they didn’t.
All Israel didn’t get saved like Paul said they would in the future in Romans 11:26-29.

4. If it makes you feel better to say Jeremiah was fulfilled with Israel on the DoP then fine but it would still be partial to the context.
The fact remains that backslidden Israel and Judah will receive the New Covenant in the time of Jacob’s trouble and will be restored to their land and the throne promised to them through their eternal covenants 2 Samuel 7:13-16; 1 Chronicles 28:1-8; Isaiah 2:2-4; Ezekiel 37:16-28.

5. Are you going to keep ignoring this truth in scripture? Jerry kelso

 

[BABerean2]

baberean2,

1. Jesus is our mediator now for he is ever interceding for us.

2. The Holy Spirit is our teacher and the body of Christ has teachers.

3. Jeremiah 31:31 the New Covenant was offered to Israel and they rejected it Matthew 23:37-39.
The KoH program ended Matthew 1:6-7.
The church age began in Acts 2 with Israel.
The KoH and Israel’s gifts and callings are different from the church of Jew and Gentile gifts and callings.
It did start with the nation of Israel that Peter addressed but the nation was not going to be restored and fulfill their gifts and callings concerning the KoH and they didn’t.
All Israel didn’t get saved like Paul said they would in the future in Romans 11:26-29.

4. If it makes you feel better to say Jeremiah was fulfilled with Israel on the DoP then fine but it would still be partial to the context.
The fact remains that backslidden Israel and Judah will receive the New Covenant in the time of Jacob’s trouble and will be restored to their land and the throne promised to them through their eternal covenants 2 Samuel 7:13-16; 1 Chronicles 28:1-8; Isaiah 2:2-4; Ezekiel 37:16-28.

5. Are you going to keep ignoring this truth in scripture? Jerry kelso

Jerry,

You have progressed more than most Dispensationalists on this forum.
At least you understand that some of the Israelites accepted the New Covenant.

If you think Paul meant that every Israelite would be saved in Romans 11:26 you must have cut Romans 9:27 out of your Bible.

Paul said "so" all Israel would be saved, which describes the manner of their salvation by being grafted back into the Olive Tree Church, through faith in Christ.

Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Romans 11:26 is about the manner of salvation, instead of the timing of salvation.

(ESV) And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob";

.

 

[keras]

Are you going to keep ignoring this truth in scripture? Jerry kelso

No we don't ignore scriptural truths. But I for one; ignore you now.

 

[jerry kelso]

No we don't ignore scriptural truths. But I for one; ignore you now.

keras,

You are ignoring me and at the same time you ignore the scriptural truths I showed you.
That is because you cannot rebut them. I have already showed you how you used scripture that wasn’t in proper context such as John 3:13.
I also showed you didn’t know the propercontext of 1 Corinthians 15 and I die daily.
I have already shown how you were hypocrital by accusing me of being a know it all which I wasn’t and tried to dial down for you and yet you admitted you purposely trying to show how uneducated I was etc.
I don’t say these things as a put down cause the gospel is the offense to those who don’t want to believe the truth.
For someone of your motive and hypocrisy in your posts and who calls themself a teacher of prophetic studies is downright dishonest.
So go ahead and ignore because you have no correct answers.
Goodbye and God help you! Jerry Kelso[/QUOTE]

 

[jerry kelso]

baberean2,

1. Do you believe that David will be prince over ethnic Israel?

2. Do you believe that the 12 apostles will rule over the twelve tribes of ethnic Israel?

3. Do you believe that the nation of ethnic Israel will have their own capital of Jerusalem that will also be the capital of the earth?

4. Do you believe that the eternal covenants promised to ethnic Israel are eternal?

5. Do you believe that the feasts will be administered by ethnic Israel or Gentiles?
Jerry kelso

 

[Cynthia1234]

Yea, what did God say in the Greek?

Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mat 26:28 ForG1063 thisG5124 isG2076 myG3450 bloodG129 of(G3588) theG3588 newG2537 testament,G1242 which is shedG1632 forG4012 manyG4183 forG1519 the remissionG859 of sins.G266


Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Heb 12:24 AndG2532 to JesusG2424 the mediatorG3316 of the newG3501 covenant,G1242 andG2532 to the bloodG129 of sprinkling,G4473 that speakethG2980 better thingsG2909 thanG3844 that of Abel.G6


G1242
διαθήκη
diathēkē
dee-ath-ay'-kay
From G1303; properly a disposition, that is, (specifically) a contract (especially a devisory will): - covenant, testament.
Total KJV occurrences: 33

In the Greek the same word "diatheke" is used in Matthew 26:28, and again in Hebrews 12:24.
In one place the KJV translators used the English word "testament" and in the other place they used the English word "covenant".
However, it is not the same Greek word "diatheke".


Is it "funny" that some of us do not seem to understand the New Covenant of Christ promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8?

...................................................

Why do those in the New Covenant not need a human teacher?

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

...........................................................

If the New Covenant is not now, then you must have cut Hebrews 8:6 out of your Bible.

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

The New Covenant: Bob George

..................................................................

You are promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine that John Nelson Darby brought to America, about the time of the Civil War, and you are worried about me...

.

Well if that word both means Testament and covenant, how do you determine which one it is? Maybe you are inspired of God and you should write your own New Testament so you can pick and chose which word is more appropriate.Because really very often a same Greek word comes with 10+ English meanings. Maybe you are able to TEACH me when you’re not supposed to? Obviously you can’t see what I mean here. Then you can make lots of money. Do you think it’s a good idea?

 

[BABerean2]

Well if that word both means Testament and covenant, how do you determine which one it is? Maybe you are inspired of God and you should write your own New Testament so you can pick and chose which word is more appropriate.Because really very often a same Greek word comes with 10+ English meanings. Maybe you are able to TEACH me when you’re not supposed to? Obviously you can’t see what I mean here. Then you can make lots of money. Do you think it’s a good idea?

I provided that information in Post #1330

G1242
διαθήκη
diathēkē
dee-ath-ay'-kay
From G1303; properly a disposition, that is, (specifically) a contract (especially a devisory will): - covenant, testament.
Total KJV occurrences: 33

Maybe you can read the above, and teach yourself something you do not already know...


Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

.

 

[Cynthia1234]

Nobody is going to change their mind. I think we should stop here. This conversation is over.

 

[BABerean2]

Nobody is going to change their mind. I think we should stop here. This conversation is over.

Great Errors in Dispensational Eschatology: Pastor John Otis

.

 

[Hammster]

ADMIN HAT ON


Closed. Too much flaming, and the OP hasn’t been around in over two months.


ADMIN HAT OFF