• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.

Featured 4 of Satan’s biggest lies to born-again believers

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by BCsenior, Jul 21, 2019.

  1. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +6,180
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    I believe in Prevenient Grace. That God illuminates, calls, and draws us to hear the gospel message during certain points in our lives. But under this illumination, calling, and drawing, it is up to our own free will to accept it or reject the gospel. God does not make robots (with some of them forced to be saved, and others who are forced to not be saved). Without this illumination, call, or drawing, no man is able to understand spiritually, and receive the gospel. But the Scriptures also say that Christ draws all men unto Himself. So this means that there is going to be times in our lives where we will be drawn (But it is in God's timing, and not our own timing). However, if there is no free will on our part to accept the Lord in any way, then the Judgment would be a farce. God would simply be condemning folks for something they had no real control over. It would be like a dog owner who kicks his dog across the room for having an uncontrollable pooping problem (When the master knows that the dog has such a problem). Such a concept of God doesn't make any sense (Especially in light of the things that we see in Scripture, like God judging men for what they do at a judgment, etc.).
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
  2. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

    +5,208
    United Kingdom
    Christian
    Married
    I didn't say you did; I was just sharing my thoughts.
     
  3. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

    +5,208
    United Kingdom
    Christian
    Married
    Yes - thank heavens that Scripture says that God is love and not like that.

    No, mankind was alienated from God and it was impossible for us to be reconciled to him before Jesus died - although in the OT they had sacrifices to atone for sin.

    No, it would show that he was cruel.
    God makes mankind in his own image, Genesis 1:26-27.
    God puts his breath into mankind, Genesis 2:7.
    God knows all about us before we are even born, Psalms 139.
    God is love, 1 John 4:8 - so everything he does is an expression of love.
    Mankind sinned, Genesis 3.
    ALL have sinned, Psalms 14:1; Romans 3:23.
    God provided a Saviour before the world was created 1 Peter 1:20.
    Yet you say that God only chooses a few of those he made in his image and who have sinned, to know him, have eternal life and be with him forever?? Even though God said that everything he had made was very good, he deliberately made some people in his image to burn in hell forever??
    That's not mercy. That reduces the Gospel to a game of chance - will you be lucky enough to be chosen to believe? Jesus taught people to repent; he didn't tell anyone that they needn't bother because God hadn't chosen them.
    And Scripture says that God doesn't want anyone to perish, 2 Peter 3:9.
     
  4. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

    +28,475
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    Live by the stones, die by the stones.............

    Reve 16 and Great Hail question

    John 10:33
    The Judeans answered Him saying "about a good work not we are stoning Thee, but about blasphemy,
    and that Thou, being a man, are making thyself a god".
    [Romans 2:23/Revelation 16:11-21]

    Romans 2:23
    23 Who in law are boasting through the transgression of the Law, the God thou are dishonoring.
    24 'For the name of the God is being blasphemed in the nations because of ye' according as it has been written.'
    [Psalm 74:10]

    Revelation 16:
    11 And they blaspheme the God of the heaven out of the miseries of them, and out of the sores of them, and not they reform out of the works of them
    21 And Hail great as talent-weight/talantiaia <5006> is descending out of the Heaven upon the Men.
    And the men blaspheme the God
    out of the blow of the Hail, that great is the blow of it/her, tremendous.
    =================
    Kindgdom Bible Studies Savior of the World Series Part 1

    What is the sin against the Holy Spirit? In the third chapter of Mark, we have the parallel passage to the text we just read in Matthew, the same record of these men coming around Jesus when they saw Him perform His mighty miracle for the poor man who could neither see nor speak.
    In order to keep the people from believing Jesus, they said the miracle was performed by the power of Satan. Notice the words of Jesus in verses 28-30: "Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith so ever they shall blaspheme.
    But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost has never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: BECAUSE THEY SAID, HE HAS AN UNCLEAN SPIRIT."
    Ah - now there's a clue - the Pharisees' opposition to Jesus was not a spur of the moment, hotheaded fit of pique. These men knew what they were doing. Their schemes against Jesus were deliberate, calculated. A leading Pharisee, Nicodemus, once confided to Jesus, "Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him" (Jn. 3:2).
     
  5. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

    +672
    Canada
    Charismatic
    Married
    I heard about this years ago, and it makes a whole lot of sense.
    I definitely am going to re-think my quite tenuous position.
    Especially in light of the judgment.

    However, If God does choose, He chooses His elect on some basis.
    And He knows the end from the beginning!
    He doesn't choose on the basis of what we have done!
    But, how about choosing based on the condition of our hearts?
    No doing anything there.
     
  6. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

    +672
    Canada
    Charismatic
    Married
    Strong in Him,
    Pretty much don't agree with you on anything!
    So, have great day! God bless!
     
  7. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

    +5,208
    United Kingdom
    Christian
    Married
    God bless you too.
    It's a shame you don't want to answer my post though; all statements supported by Scripture.
     
  8. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +6,180
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    1 Peter 1:1-2 says we are “elect” (chosen) according to God the Father’s foreknowledge.

    “Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.” (1 Peter 1:2-2).

    So God does choose us based on what we are going to do.

    Further proof?

    Revelation 13:8 and Revelation 17:8 says that those who will worship the beast never had their names written in the book of life since the foundation of the world.

    Everyone else has their name in the book of life when they are born, because if a baby dies, they go to be with the Lord. For Scripture says children are of the Kingdom. But names can blotted out of the book of life (Which suggests that salvation is conditioned upon what we do). For it makes no sense for God to blot our names (if Unconditional Election was true, i.e. God chooses some to be saved and others to not be saved based on no conditions within the person whatsoever).
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
  9. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +6,180
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    As for Prevenient Grace:

    Here is the best article I read on the topic.

    What Biblical Evidence Is There For Prevenient Grace?
     
  10. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

    +672
    Canada
    Charismatic
    Married
    No, no ... you're better than this!

    His foreknowledge does not necessarily refer to our works that He sees!
    Could be just the condition of our hearts, or something else.
     
  11. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +6,180
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Only God is good. Any good or godly knowledge comes from the Lord. All glory goes to Him for any good or truth imparted to me by Him. So there is no.... I am better. Man alone (without God) is not good or better in any way.

    Jesus says, "A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh." (Luke 6:45).

    In other words, a good heart (a born again heart by God) and the Lord living in them does the good work through the believer. The heart brings forth that which is good. It is the Lord who does the good work through us. Those who have en evil heart, bring forth evil works. So the type of heart one has determines the kind of work they do.

    Besides, God knows the future and every possibility. So to say that foreknowledge does not include Him not knowing about our actions is to not do justice to that word. God knows all things.
     
  12. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

    +672
    Canada
    Charismatic
    Married
    C'mon, I was referring to your sentence in post #88 ...
    "So God does choose us based on what we are going to do."
     
  13. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +6,180
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Not sure you understand where I am coming from. A person’s heart and actions are tied together according to Jesus; And God knows all details of the future. Foreknowledge means knowing knowledge ahead of time.
     
  14. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

    +672
    Canada
    Charismatic
    Married
    I'm talking about people being chosen/elected ...
    NOT on the basis of what they do, or don't do:
    Romans 9:11
    "(for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil,
    that the purpose of God according to election might stand,
    not of works but of Him who calls)"
    Romans 9:16
    "So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs,
    but of God who shows mercy."
     
  15. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

    +1,543
    Christian
    Married
    I want to make sure I understand you correctly, are you saying that we can reach a point of sinlessness?
     
  16. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +6,180
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    In this instance, "works" is in reference to the Pharisee's false religion that focused heavily on turning God's plan of salvation into "Works Alone Salvationism" (Without God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ). Remember, the Jews rejected their Messiah. Romans 9-11 deals primarily with Israel. There was a certain sect of Jews who were trying to deceive Christians into thinking they had to be circumcised and keep the 613 laws within the Law of Moses (See Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, and Acts of the Apostles 15:24). But the Law has changed (Hebrews 7:12). We are under a New Covenant with new commands.

    Here is a good article to begin to understand what Romans 9 is talking about (if you are interested):

    Understanding Romans 9 Without the Calvinist Spin
     
  17. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

    +672
    Canada
    Charismatic
    Married
    Thanks for your sincere and extremely important question!

    Yes, we are sinless in God's eyes ... because of our sincere repentance!
    See especially 1 John 1:9.

    Truly born-again believers will not habitually sin (without repentance).
    They are new creations, and they have the indwelling Holy Spirit.
    And they love Jesus enough to really desire to obey His commandments.
    Without all of this, a person is totally lost and undone ... headed for hell.
     
  18. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

    +672
    Canada
    Charismatic
    Married
    I was referring to your sentence in post #88 ...
    "So God does choose us based on what we are going to do."
     
  19. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +6,180
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Romans 9 is not taking about Sanctification (or works done by the Spirit). Paul is referring to Israel as a nation and or the false religion of the Pharisees and their “Works Alone Salvationism.”
     
  20. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

    +672
    Canada
    Charismatic
    Married
    To me, Romans 9 is talking about how God elects individuals.
    Strictly by His choice, not by any of their works or desires.
    Some are created for glory; some are created for hell (Romans 9:15-24).
    Incredible ... But, people have all kinds of excuses for not believing it.
     
Loading...