4 of Satan’s biggest lies to born-again believers

Strong in Him

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I don't see any works (done or not done) in Rev 13:8 and 17:8.
BACs can (and many will) submit to taking the mark of the beast.

Really??
Jesus said that no one can snatch us from his hands, John 10:27, and no one can snatch us from his Father's hands, John 10:29.
Paul said that nothing can separate us from the love of God, Romans 8:38-39, that our lives have been hidden, with Christ, in God, Colossians 3:3 and that we have the Holy Spirit who is a deposit guaranteeing what is to come, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 2 Corinthians 5:5, Ephesians 1:14 - and you reckon some born again Christians will worship the beast and take his mark??
 
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BCsenior

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- and you reckon some born again Christians will worship the beast and take his mark??
BACs who are not listening well enough to hear from the Holy Spirit
where to go (and when) will find themselves without food, etc.
Because without the mark, they will NOT be able to buy or sell.
How would you like to watch your family starve to death?
How would you like a family member to die with no medical supplies?
Many will take the mark (out of ignorance, or not) for such reasons.
I advise that you get on the Internet and become educated.
 
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Strong in Him

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BACs who are not listening well enough to hear from the Holy Spirit
where to go (and when) will find themselves without food, etc.

I am fairly sure that Christians born again by, and of, the Spirit, who confirms to them that they are children of God; who have been sealed and given a guarantee of their inheritance, will listen to the Spirit when he teaches them/us.

Because without the mark, they will NOT be able to buy or sell.

Assuming that those verses in Revelation are speaking of some future event still to come for us, and not of something future to John, like the destruction of Jerusalem.

Many will take the mark (out of ignorance, or not) for such reasons.

Since NOTHING can snatch us from the Father's hands nor separate us from his love, I don't think that making a mistake out of ignorance will do it.

I advise that you get on the Internet and become educated.

The internet?
Nah; I'd rather trust God.
 
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I am fairly sure that Christians born again by, and of, the Spirit, who confirms to them that they are children of God; who have been sealed and given a guarantee of their inheritance, will listen to the Spirit when he teaches them/us.
I am more than fairly sure that BACs need to practice listening to God's voice.
It may prove difficult when they are under a lot of pressure figuring out what to do.
They need to be obedient to the word and to His voice BOTH.
 
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I am more than fairly sure that BACs need to practice listening to God's voice.
It may prove difficult when they are under a lot of pressure figuring out what to do.
They need to be obedient to the word and to His voice BOTH.

I'm sure we all could improve in the time we spend listening to God's voice.
Interesting that you keep saying "they" instead of "we".
 
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I don't see any works (done or not done) in Rev 13:8 and 17:8.
BACs can (and many will) submit to taking the mark of the beast.
'Tis just one of the many TESTS that BACs may need to overcome!
Saved as a baby as in sprinkling, or what?
No one can be saved as a baby ... unless you mean if he dies, he goes to heaven.

The point is that they were not elected to salvation based on what they will do in the future (Which is worship the beast). Also, no Christian who was ever saved can worship the beast because Revelation 13:8 and Revelation 17:8 says they never had their names in the book of life from the foundation of the world. This means they never had salvation ever. They never had salvation in the fact that God knew of the evil that they would do in the future with the beast.
 
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(1) The point is that they were not elected to salvation based on what they will do in the future (Which is worship the beast).
(2) They never had salvation in the fact that God knew of the evil that they would do in the future with the beast.
You have presented 2 opposites.
I had no idea that you believe in OSAS.
IMO, God does not elect people on the basis of what they will do with their lives.
E.G. What's the point of BACs being tested, if God knows the results?
 
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You have presented 2 opposites.

How so?

You said:
I had no idea that you believe in OSAS.

I am strongly against "Once Saved Always Saved," "Belief Alone-ism," and or a "Sin and Still Be Saved Type Belief" (Which appears to be the majority view of most churches these days). The belief I presented to you in no way remotely defends OSAS. God can choose not to save people based on knowing what their future free will choice is going to be. This is what Revelation 13:8, and Revelation 17:8 says.

I mean, do you care to give a word for word commentary on one of these verses to help us to see where you are coming from?

I am just reading and believing this two verses at face value.

You said:
IMO, God does not elect people on the basis of what they will do with their lives.

I am saying that I am in partial agreement with you now. After thinking about how God saves and pays the price for all of the sins of mankind (with the exception of those who will worship the beast), men are elected or chosen to salvation based on nothing they did. God showed mercy to them. All men (except for those people who will worship the beast) are saved as a baby (by Christ's sacrifice).

You said:
E.G. What's the point of BACs being tested, if God knows the results?

Are you suggesting that you believe in Open Theism?
Meaning, you believe God does not know the details of the future of men's lives?
 
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Saint Steven

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All these things are in fact Biblical truth, as @Oscarr and others have pointed out.

For example, Colossians 1:2 is addressed "To God’s holy people in Colossae, the faithful brothers and sisters in Christ."
Great post. Thanks.
Believers HAVE "eternal life" as a present possession and will not be judged.
And have CHANGED positionally, having "crossed over from death to life."

John 5:24
“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
 
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Saint Steven

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I see you have backed down on this now. Good.

You have NO clue what blaspheming the Holy Spirit is all about ... NONE at all.
Nope. @Mathetes66 was spot on from my perspective. Scripture below.

Mathetes66 said:
All four are not lies. Beware of calling something God does and say it is from Satan. That is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mark 3:22-29
And the teachers of the law who came down from Jerusalem said, “He is possessed by Beelzebul! By the prince of demons he is driving out demons.”
23 So Jesus called them over to him and began to speak to them in parables: “How can Satan drive out Satan? 24 If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. 25 If a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand. 26 And if Satan opposes himself and is divided, he cannot stand; his end has come. 27 In fact, no one can enter a strong man’s house without first tying him up. Then he can plunder the strong man’s house. 28 Truly I tell you, people can be forgiven all their sins and every slander they utter, 29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin.”
 
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I see you have backed down on this now. Good.


Nope. @Mathetes66 was spot on from my perspective. Scripture below.

Mathetes66 said:
All four are not lies. Beware of calling something God does and say it is from Satan. That is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mark 3:22-29
And the teachers of the law who came down from Jerusalem said, “He is possessed by Beelzebul! By the prince of demons he is driving out demons.”
23 So Jesus called them over to him and began to speak to them in parables: “How can Satan drive out Satan? 24 If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. 25 If a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand. 26 And if Satan opposes himself and is divided, he cannot stand; his end has come. 27 In fact, no one can enter a strong man’s house without first tying him up. Then he can plunder the strong man’s house. 28 Truly I tell you, people can be forgiven all their sins and every slander they utter, 29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin.”

John says that he commits sin is of the devil (1 John 3:8).
I believe "Once Saved Always Saved," or "Belief Alone-ism," or a "Sin and Still Be Saved Type Belief" teaches that one cannot stop sinning in this life, and that one is still saved even if they sin. When I talk with believers in these kinds of beliefs, some tell me they sin many times a day and it is impossible to walk uprightly. They say that you cannot sin your way of out of God's grace.

But Jude 1:4 warns us against those who turn God's grace into a license for immorality. What exactly is Jude 1:4 talking about?
 
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John says that he commits sin is of the devil (1 John 3:8).
I believe "Once Saved Always Saved," or "Belief Alone-ism," or a "Sin and Still Be Saved Type Belief" teaches that one cannot stop sinning in this life, and that one is still saved even if they sin. When I talk with believers in these kinds of beliefs, some tell me they sin many times a day and it is impossible to walk uprightly. They say that you cannot sin your way of out of God's grace.

But Jude 1:4 warns us against those who turn God's grace into a license for immorality. What exactly is Jude 1:4 talking about?
It is certainly wrong to "turn God's grace into a license for immorality", but I think you are mistaken in your blanket characterizing of believers that way. Even the Apostle Paul wrote about the constant struggle against sin. Are you unaware of the sin in your life? It seems you are promoting self-righteousness. Is that a sin?
 
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Great post. Thanks.
Believers HAVE "eternal life" as a present possession and will not be judged.
And have CHANGED positionally, having "crossed over from death to life."

John 5:24
“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

I believe eternal life is a person and it is not a superpower. 1 John 5:12 says he that has the Son has life, and he that does not have the Son does not have life.

So a person needs to have the Son in order to have life.

The way we can have an assurance in knowing the Son is if we find that we are keeping His commandments (See: 1 John 2:3). The person who says they know the Lord and they do not keep His commandments, they are a liar and the "truth" (i.e. Jesus is the Truth - John 14:6) is not in them (See: 1 John 2:4).

Also, when John 5:24 says, "whoever hears my word," it is referring to obeying His word. Jesus said in Matthew 7:26-27 that every one that hears these sayings of mine, and does them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, who built his house upon the sand, and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house. Hebrews 5:9 essentially says that Jesus is the author of eternal life to all who OBEY Him.
 
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It is certainly wrong to "turn God's grace into a license for immorality", but I think you are mistaken in your blanket characterizing of believers that way.

Well, I believe men today do not set the bar high enough when it comes to avoiding "turning God's grace into a license for immorality." While I am not talking about "Sinless Perfection" (i.e. the putting away of minor transgressions, or faults of character that do not lead to spiritual death), I am referring to putting away grievous sin (like lying, lusting, hating, theft, adultery, etc.).

Hebrews 10:26 says if we willfully sin after we receive the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sin.

Hebrews 12:14 says follow after peace and holiness, of which no man shall see the Lord.

If a person struggles with sin all the time, they are not living holy. One has to overcome at least the bare minimum level requirement in living holy in order to follow after holiness. 1 Peter 1:16 says be ye holy, as I am holy.

1 Corinthians 2:16 says that "we have the mind of Christ."

How can one have the mind of Christ if they believe they will always struggle with sin with thinking they are saved (even when they are in sin)? Did Jesus ever justify the idea that He could sin and still be saved on some level? Was that the mind of Christ? Surely not.

You said:
Even the Apostle Paul wrote about the constant struggle against sin.

I believe you are referring to Romans 7:14-24. If so, I believe the context of the beginning of that chapter is referring to the Old Law (or the Law of Moses).

"But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." (Romans 7:6).

This means Paul was talking from the perspective as a Pharisee before he came to Christ. This makes sense because he later thanks God now that he has been delivered by Christ. Is this deliverance by Christ mean he could sin and still be saved (as he struggled with sin)? No.

Paul says to believers in Romans 8:13,

"For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live."​

In other words, Paul tells believers, if a person (the believer) lives after the flesh (sin), they will die spiritually, but if they mortify (put to death) the deeds of the body (sin) via the Holy Spirit, they will live spiritually.

Paul says put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ and ye will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh (Romans 13:14).

Paul tells us believers that we are to cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God (2 Corinthians 7:1).

How is that possible with what you have told me?

You said:
Are you unaware of the sin in your life? It seems you are promoting self-righteousness. Is that a sin?

I believe that Belief Alone Proponents are under the impression that they cannot overcome grievous sin in their daily walk with God and that they are saved even when they struggle with sin. But are they overcoming sin? Is a man who keeps cheating on his wife truly sorry if just pays lip service in telling her that he is "sorry" and yet there is no change in his life ever? My point here is that we as believers need to overcome grievous sin and live holy lives. If not, our faith and love for God is not at the loyalty and devotion that God requires of us.

This is not our holiness or self righteousness but it is the power of God working in us to live holy. It is the Sanctification process by the Spirit.

Sanctify:

John 17:17
"Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth."

Ephesians 5:25-27
25 "...even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."


"Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you." (John 15:3).

"Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit...". (1 Peter 1:22) (cf. Romans 8:13).

"Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word."
(Psalms 119:9)

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

“But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.” (1 John 2:5).​

John 17:19
"And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth."


1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God." (1 Peter 4:1-2).

“He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.” (1 John 2:6).

"For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps." (1 Peter 2:21).​

Sanctification:

1 Thessalonians 4:3
"For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:"

"Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." (2 Corinthians 7:1).

"For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness." (1 Thessalonians 4:7).

"So all people who have this confidence in Christ keep themselves pure, as Christ is pure." (1 John 3:3 GW).

"Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also." Matthew 23:26).

"A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh." (Luke 6:45).

"Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God." (Matthew 5:8).

1 Thessalonians 4:4
"That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;"


7 "But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
8 We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair;
9 Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;
10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body." (2 Corinthians 4:7-10).

16 "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are."
(1 Corinthians 3:16-17).

Side Note:

Please keep in mind that the verses I quote about being blameless, cleansing ourselves from ALL filthiness of the flesh is not the sole focus of my post here because I am not allowed to talk about Sinless Perfection in this section of the forums at great length. I am using these verses as a means to promote holy living by the Spirit in overcoming grievous sin (like lying, lusting, hating, adultery, theft, etc.).
 
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1 John 5:12 says
he that has the Son has life, and he that does not have the Son does not have life.
Okay, you like 1 John, so hopefully Stephen will understand this:
1 John 3:7-10
“Little children, let no one deceive you.

He who practices righteousness is righteous,
just as He is righteous … In this the children of God
and the children of the devil are manifest:

Whoever does NOT practice righteousness is NOT of God,
NOR is he who does NOT love his brothers/sisters.”
 
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