4 of Satan’s biggest lies to born-again believers

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I believe a little differently (although perhaps it's not a big deal) ...
Many NT verses teach us that man is totally unable to believe in Jesus and His Gospel.
Therefore, God must provide him with enough faith to enable him to believe.
IMO, grace begins here (the above).
This is an extremely unpopular view (that's why it is "somewhat hidden" in Scripture)!

E.G. God chose my father for heaven, and my mother for hell --- horrible, right?
However, all humans are destined for hell, period.
So, God choosing some for heaven demonstrates His grace (unmerited favor).
Praise the Lord.

I believe in Prevenient Grace. That God illuminates, calls, and draws us to hear the gospel message during certain points in our lives. But under this illumination, calling, and drawing, it is up to our own free will to accept it or reject the gospel. God does not make robots (with some of them forced to be saved, and others who are forced to not be saved). Without this illumination, call, or drawing, no man is able to understand spiritually, and receive the gospel. But the Scriptures also say that Christ draws all men unto Himself. So this means that there is going to be times in our lives where we will be drawn (But it is in God's timing, and not our own timing). However, if there is no free will on our part to accept the Lord in any way, then the Judgment would be a farce. God would simply be condemning folks for something they had no real control over. It would be like a dog owner who kicks his dog across the room for having an uncontrollable pooping problem (When the master knows that the dog has such a problem). Such a concept of God doesn't make any sense (Especially in light of the things that we see in Scripture, like God judging men for what they do at a judgment, etc.).
 
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Strong in Him

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E.G. God chose my father for heaven, and my mother for hell --- horrible, right?

Yes - thank heavens that Scripture says that God is love and not like that.

However, all humans are destined for hell, period.

No, mankind was alienated from God and it was impossible for us to be reconciled to him before Jesus died - although in the OT they had sacrifices to atone for sin.

So, God choosing some for heaven demonstrates His grace (unmerited favor).

No, it would show that he was cruel.
God makes mankind in his own image, Genesis 1:26-27.
God puts his breath into mankind, Genesis 2:7.
God knows all about us before we are even born, Psalms 139.
God is love, 1 John 4:8 - so everything he does is an expression of love.
Mankind sinned, Genesis 3.
ALL have sinned, Psalms 14:1; Romans 3:23.
God provided a Saviour before the world was created 1 Peter 1:20.
Yet you say that God only chooses a few of those he made in his image and who have sinned, to know him, have eternal life and be with him forever?? Even though God said that everything he had made was very good, he deliberately made some people in his image to burn in hell forever??
That's not mercy. That reduces the Gospel to a game of chance - will you be lucky enough to be chosen to believe? Jesus taught people to repent; he didn't tell anyone that they needn't bother because God hadn't chosen them.
And Scripture says that God doesn't want anyone to perish, 2 Peter 3:9.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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All four are not lies. Beware of calling something God does and say it is from Satan. That is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. That is a sin that will not be forgiven in this age and the age to come. You have been warned by the warning of Jesus.
Live by the stones, die by the stones.............

Reve 16 and Great Hail question

John 10:33
The Judeans answered Him saying "about a good work not we are stoning Thee, but about blasphemy,
and that Thou, being a man, are making thyself a god".
[Romans 2:23/Revelation 16:11-21]

Romans 2:23
23 Who in law are boasting through the transgression of the Law, the God thou are dishonoring.
24 'For the name of the God is being blasphemed in the nations because of ye' according as it has been written.'
[Psalm 74:10]

Revelation 16:
11 And they blaspheme the God of the heaven out of the miseries of them, and out of the sores of them, and not they reform out of the works of them
21 And Hail great as talent-weight/talantiaia <5006> is descending out of the Heaven upon the Men.
And the men blaspheme the God
out of the blow of the Hail, that great is the blow of it/her, tremendous.
=================
Kindgdom Bible Studies Savior of the World Series Part 1

What is the sin against the Holy Spirit? In the third chapter of Mark, we have the parallel passage to the text we just read in Matthew, the same record of these men coming around Jesus when they saw Him perform His mighty miracle for the poor man who could neither see nor speak.
In order to keep the people from believing Jesus, they said the miracle was performed by the power of Satan. Notice the words of Jesus in verses 28-30: "Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith so ever they shall blaspheme.
But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost has never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: BECAUSE THEY SAID, HE HAS AN UNCLEAN SPIRIT."
Ah - now there's a clue - the Pharisees' opposition to Jesus was not a spur of the moment, hotheaded fit of pique. These men knew what they were doing. Their schemes against Jesus were deliberate, calculated. A leading Pharisee, Nicodemus, once confided to Jesus, "Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him" (Jn. 3:2).
 
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BCsenior

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I believe in Prevenient Grace. That God illuminates, calls, and draws us to hear the gospel message during certain points in our lives. But under this illumination, calling, and drawing, it is up to our own free will to accept it or reject the gospel.
I heard about this years ago, and it makes a whole lot of sense.
I definitely am going to re-think my quite tenuous position.
Especially in light of the judgment.

However, If God does choose, He chooses His elect on some basis.
And He knows the end from the beginning!
He doesn't choose on the basis of what we have done!
But, how about choosing based on the condition of our hearts?
No doing anything there.
 
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Strong in Him

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Strong in Him,
Pretty much don't agree with you on anything!
So, have great day! God bless!

God bless you too.
It's a shame you don't want to answer my post though; all statements supported by Scripture.
 
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I heard about this years ago, and it makes a whole lot of sense.
I definitely am going to re-think my quite tenuous position.
Especially in light of the judgment.

However, If God does choose, He chooses His elect on some basis.
And He knows the end from the beginning!
He doesn't choose on the basis of what we have done!
But, how about choosing based on the condition of our hearts?
No doing anything there.

1 Peter 1:1-2 says we are “elect” (chosen) according to God the Father’s foreknowledge.

“Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.” (1 Peter 1:2-2).

So God does choose us based on what we are going to do.

Further proof?

Revelation 13:8 and Revelation 17:8 says that those who will worship the beast never had their names written in the book of life since the foundation of the world.

Everyone else has their name in the book of life when they are born, because if a baby dies, they go to be with the Lord. For Scripture says children are of the Kingdom. But names can blotted out of the book of life (Which suggests that salvation is conditioned upon what we do). For it makes no sense for God to blot our names (if Unconditional Election was true, i.e. God chooses some to be saved and others to not be saved based on no conditions within the person whatsoever).
 
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I heard about this years ago, and it makes a whole lot of sense.
I definitely am going to re-think my quite tenuous position.
Especially in light of the judgment.

However, If God does choose, He chooses His elect on some basis.
And He knows the end from the beginning!
He doesn't choose on the basis of what we have done!
But, how about choosing based on the condition of our hearts?
No doing anything there.

As for Prevenient Grace:

Here is the best article I read on the topic.

What Biblical Evidence Is There For Prevenient Grace?
 
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BCsenior

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1 Peter 1:1-2 says we are “elect” (chosen) according to God the Father’s foreknowledge.
“Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.” (1 Peter 1:2-2).

So God does choose us based on what we are going to do.
No, no ... you're better than this!

His foreknowledge does not necessarily refer to our works that He sees!
Could be just the condition of our hearts, or something else.
 
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No, no ... you're better than this!

Only God is good. Any good or godly knowledge comes from the Lord. All glory goes to Him for any good or truth imparted to me by Him. So there is no.... I am better. Man alone (without God) is not good or better in any way.

You said:
His foreknowledge does not necessarily refer to our works that He sees!
Could be just the condition of our hearts, or something else.

Jesus says, "A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh." (Luke 6:45).

In other words, a good heart (a born again heart by God) and the Lord living in them does the good work through the believer. The heart brings forth that which is good. It is the Lord who does the good work through us. Those who have en evil heart, bring forth evil works. So the type of heart one has determines the kind of work they do.

Besides, God knows the future and every possibility. So to say that foreknowledge does not include Him not knowing about our actions is to not do justice to that word. God knows all things.
 
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C'mon, I was referring to your sentence in post #88 ...
"So God does choose us based on what we are going to do."

Not sure you understand where I am coming from. A person’s heart and actions are tied together according to Jesus; And God knows all details of the future. Foreknowledge means knowing knowledge ahead of time.
 
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I was referring to your sentence in post #88 ...
"So God does choose us based on what we are going to do."

Not sure you understand where I am coming from.
A person’s heart and actions are tied together according to Jesus;
And God knows all details of the future.
Foreknowledge means knowing knowledge ahead of time.
I'm talking about people being chosen/elected ...
NOT on the basis of what they do, or don't do:
Romans 9:11
"(for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil,
that the purpose of God according to election might stand,
not of works but of Him who calls)"
Romans 9:16
"So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs,
but of God who shows mercy."
 
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renniks

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Satan's lie
All of your sins (past, present, future) have been forgiven


“For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness,
and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his OLD sins.” (2 Peter 1:9, NKJV)

>>> “OLD sins” is also in the KJV, RSV, NLT, AMP

“… having forgotten his purification from his FORMER sins.” (2 Peter 1:9, NASB)
>>> “FORMER sins” is also in the ESV

“… forgetting that they have been cleansed from their PAST sins.” (2 Peter 1:9, NIV)
>>> “PAST sins” is also in the HCSB

John is writing to his fellow Christians …
“But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins
and to cleanse us from all wickedness (unrighteousness).” (1 John 1:9, NLT)
This is an extremely important verse … all men need to be repeatedly purified from
all unrighteousness – from all their sins … We must confess our sins and turn from them
… We must also confess them with our actions … (John) is talking here about repentance
… we must hate our sins and turn from them. This is true repentance.
(The Applied New Testament Commentary; Dr. Thomas Hale, missionary to Nepal)


Paul warns the errant Corinthian church that their …
“godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation” (2 Corin. 7:9-10, NKJV)

Satan's lie
You are now righteous


“… you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living … So now you must give yourselves to be slaves to righteous living” (Romans 6:16-19)

“… let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous just as He is righteous. He who sins is of the devil … Whoever has been born of God does not sin (habitually) … In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God” (1 John 3:7-10)
“… who fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him” (Acts 10:35)


“But you, O man of God, flee these things and pursue righteousness and a godly life … pursue righteous living” (1 Timothy 6:11, 2 Timothy 2:22)

Satan's lie
You are now holy


“… give yourselves to be slaves to righteous living so that you will become holy.” (Romans 6:16-19)

“work at living a holy life, for those who are not holy will not see the Lord.” (Hebrews 12:14)

“God’s will is for you to be holy, so stay away from all sexual sin … live in holiness and honor. … God has called us to live holy lives, not impure lives. Therefore, anyone who refuses to live by these rules is not disobeying human teaching but is rejecting God” (1 Thessalonians 4:3-8)

“you must live as God’s obedient children … now you must be holy in everything you do, just as God who chose you is holy. For the Scriptures say, ‘You must be holy because I am holy.’ ” (1 Peter 1:14-15)

Satan's lie
You have been saved and can never lose salvation


“… you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, or (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness” (Romans 6:16)

“For to be carnally-minded is (eternal) death, but to be spiritually-minded is (eternal) life and peace.” (Romans 8:5-6)

“For IF you live according to the flesh you will die (eternal death); but IF by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live (eternal life).” (Romans 8:13)

“For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption (eternal death), but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.” (Galatians 6:7-8)

“Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of (eternal) life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him … when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin when it is full-grown, brings forth (eternal) death. Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.” (James 1:12-15)

Jesus often said. “Those who love Me will obey My commandments.” (4 times in John 14)
I want to make sure I understand you correctly, are you saying that we can reach a point of sinlessness?
 
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I'm talking about people being chosen/elected ...
NOT on the basis of what they do, or don't do:
Romans 9:11
"(for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil,
that the purpose of God according to election might stand,
not of works but of Him who calls)"
Romans 9:16
"So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs,
but of God who shows mercy."

In this instance, "works" is in reference to the Pharisee's false religion that focused heavily on turning God's plan of salvation into "Works Alone Salvationism" (Without God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ). Remember, the Jews rejected their Messiah. Romans 9-11 deals primarily with Israel. There was a certain sect of Jews who were trying to deceive Christians into thinking they had to be circumcised and keep the 613 laws within the Law of Moses (See Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, and Acts of the Apostles 15:24). But the Law has changed (Hebrews 7:12). We are under a New Covenant with new commands.

Here is a good article to begin to understand what Romans 9 is talking about (if you are interested):

Understanding Romans 9 Without the Calvinist Spin
 
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BCsenior

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I want to make sure I understand you correctly,
are you saying that we can reach a point of sinlessness?
Thanks for your sincere and extremely important question!

Yes, we are sinless in God's eyes ... because of our sincere repentance!
See especially 1 John 1:9.

Truly born-again believers will not habitually sin (without repentance).
They are new creations, and they have the indwelling Holy Spirit.
And they love Jesus enough to really desire to obey His commandments.
Without all of this, a person is totally lost and undone ... headed for hell.
 
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BCsenior

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In this instance, "works" is in reference to the Pharisee's false religion that focused heavily on turning God's plan of salvation into "Works Alone Salvationism"
(Without God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ).
I was referring to your sentence in post #88 ...
"So God does choose us based on what we are going to do."
 
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I was referring to your sentence in post #88 ...
"So God does choose us based on what we are going to do."

Romans 9 is not taking about Sanctification (or works done by the Spirit). Paul is referring to Israel as a nation and or the false religion of the Pharisees and their “Works Alone Salvationism.”
 
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Romans 9 is not taking about Sanctification (or works done by the Spirit).
Paul is referring to Israel as a nation and or the false religion of the Pharisees
and their “Works Alone Salvationism.”
To me, Romans 9 is talking about how God elects individuals.
Strictly by His choice, not by any of their works or desires.
Some are created for glory; some are created for hell (Romans 9:15-24).
Incredible ... But, people have all kinds of excuses for not believing it.
 
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