• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
  • We hope the site problems here are now solved, however, if you still have any issues, please start a ticket in Contact Us

3rd Temple coming soon..

Status
Not open for further replies.

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
30,368
3,604
Non-dispensationalist
✟438,698.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
And let's not forget all the conversions that occurred throughout history.

What about John Hyrcanus who forcibly converted the Edomites to Judaism in the 2nd century BCE. And the conversion of the Khazarian Empire to Judaism. It became their national religion between the 8th and 10th centuries CE.

So we have abunch of Khazars and Edomites too. Along with every other nationalities that have converted to Judaism.

Does this mean Chinese Jews have a historical right to the Holy Land?


In Judaism, a person can convert to Judaism, but that doesn't make them part of any specific tribe. You can go to any Jewish site to verify that.

The northern kingdom and the southern kingdom have been rejoined as one nation, because God made it happen. God has not lost the ten tribes, nor the two tribes. Back at the time of Jesus, the land was made up of three regions, Judeah, Samaria, Galilee. Not one unified nation.

The twelve disciples represented the twelve tribes, because at the last supper Jesus made the new covenant with Israel. In Acts 1, when Peter chastised the Jews there making fun of the new Christians, Peter said...

8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,
9 If we this day be examined of the good deed done to the impotent man, by what means he is made whole;
10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.


The reunification of the one nation happened in 1948, and 1967 completed the prophecy so that Jerusalem could welcome Jesus, blessed is he who come in the name of the Lord, when he returns.
 
Upvote 0

ebedmelech

My dog Micah in the pic
Site Supporter
Jul 3, 2012
9,002
680
✟235,464.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
This is a really useless debate because what makes one a Jew according to the Law? That would end the debate.

However secondly...under the New Covenant, what makes one a Jew?

The apostle answers that at Romans 2:28, 29:
28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.
29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.


Many dismiss that passage as if it doesn't exist. It has to be dealt with! It flat out says the true Jew is one who has received Christ...and that person's race doesn't matter...because it's a matter of the Spirit!
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
30,368
3,604
Non-dispensationalist
✟438,698.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
This is a really useless debate because what makes one a Jew according to the Law? That would end the debate.

However secondly...under the New Covenant, what makes one a Jew?

The apostle answers that at Romans 2:28, 29:
28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.
29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.


Many dismiss that passage as if it doesn't exist. It has to be dealt with! It flat out says the true Jew is one who has received Christ...and that person's race doesn't matter...because it's a matter of the Spirit!

Hi eb, that passage doesn't address what tribe does it? The issue is bible prophecy, not theology.
 
Upvote 0

random person

1 COR. 10:11; HEB. 1:2; HEB. 9:26,28; 1 PET. 1:20
Dec 10, 2013
3,646
262
Riverside California
✟29,087.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
The reunification of the one nation happened in 1948, and 1967 completed the prophecy so that Jerusalem could welcome Jesus, blessed is he who come in the name of the Lord, when he returns.

That is nothing but a pure and fallacious blanket statement on your part.

You and I both know it is incorrect.

There are no Jews and Gentiles in Christ's Kingdom. Old Testament passages can bewildering and cryptic to the modern reader. But the New Testament clearly states there is no more wall of partition between Jew and Gentile.

Jesus himself was the Third and final Temple.
 
Upvote 0

yeshuasavedme

Senior Veteran
May 31, 2004
12,811
779
✟112,705.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
That is nothing but a pure and fallacious blanket statement on your part.

You and I both know it is incorrect.

There are no Jews and Gentiles in Christ's Kingdom. ...

Jesus himself was the Third and final Temple.
The kingdom of God is filled with Jews, Gentiles, males, females, slaves, freemen. You seem to have missed the facts.


Christ come in flesh is the Foundation Stone for the second temple not made with hands. His name, as the second temple and New Creation Man, is "Israel" -Isaiah 49.


Adam was the first temple made without hands for the Glory to indwell.

Christ come in flesh named "Israel" as the second human being Firstborn Son of God is the Foundation Stone of the second temple not made with hands.

Haggai 2 makes it plain, and the Stone for the Second Temple was laid on the night of the incarnation of Christ, which is the eve before Hanukkah, which made His birth exactly on the first day of Tabernacles and His circumcision on the 8th day -that Great Day, which types the New Beginning; and His death on Passover was exactly 6 months after his 33rd birthday, for He began His ministry on Tabernacles and 3 1/2 years later, was crucified and rose from the dead, ascended, and is glorified.

Anyone adopted into the Living Spirit is made a living stone in the living temple not made with hands.

The Temple of God in heaven set in the sun is still the created temple of God where the Ark of the Covenant is, and where God, The Great Glory, in the Person of God the Word, sits on the throne.

That was the first temple made with hands, for it is built of crystal and fire and it is set in the sun.

The next temple made with hands was the tabernacle in the wilderness.
The third was Solomon's temple.
The fourth was the temple built after Cyrus issued the decree it could be built.
Then Herod remodeled it.

Then Rome took it -and the temple mount on which it sat- down to the ground [it was not sitting where the Dome of the Rock is, for that was where the Roman fort for the soldiers was].

There is going to be another temple built in Israel, called the tribulation temple.

Then the millennial temple will be built which Ezekiel gave the detailed plans for.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
30,368
3,604
Non-dispensationalist
✟438,698.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
That is nothing but a pure and fallacious blanket statement on your part.

You and I both know it is incorrect.

There are no Jews and Gentiles in Christ's Kingdom. Old Testament passages can bewildering and cryptic to the modern reader. But the New Testament clearly states there is no more wall of partition between Jew and Gentile.

Jesus himself was the Third and final Temple.

No, it is actually a prophecy that Jesus made in Matthew 23.

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.


Again, you are confusing theology with prophecy. Prophecy is something that is going to take place, regardless of theology.


You are probably not aware of it, but the prime reason the Jews reject the gospel is because Jesus did not appear to anyone after the resurrection other than those who believed in him before the cross. But Jesus in Matthew 23 said they would not see him again until they, Jerusalem, which must be in the hands of the Jews, say blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord. Most countermissionary Jews are not aware of that verse.
 
Upvote 0

random person

1 COR. 10:11; HEB. 1:2; HEB. 9:26,28; 1 PET. 1:20
Dec 10, 2013
3,646
262
Riverside California
✟29,087.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
The kingdom of God is filled with Jews, Gentiles, males, females, slaves, freemen. You seem to have missed the facts.


Christ come in flesh is the Foundation Stone for the second temple not made with hands. His name, as the second temple and New Creation Man, is "Israel" -Isaiah 49.


Adam was the first temple made without hands for the Glory to indwell.

Christ come in flesh named "Israel" as the second human being Firstborn Son of God is the Foundation Stone of the second temple not made with hands.

Haggai 2 makes it plain, and the Stone for the Second Temple was laid on the night of the incarnation of Christ, which is the eve before Hannukah, which made His bith exactly on the first day of Tabernacles and His circumcision on the 8th day -that Great Day, which types the New Beginning; and His death on Passover was exactly 6 months after his 33rd birthday, for He began His ministry on Tabernacles and 3 1/2 years later, was crucified and rose from the dead, ascended, and is glorified.

Anyone adopted into the Living Spirit is made a living stone in the living temple not made with hands.

The Temple of God in heaven set in the sun is still the created temple of God where the Ark of the Covenant is, and where God, The Great Glory, in the Person of God the Word, sits on the throne.

That was the first temple made with hands, for it is built of crystal and fire and it is set in the sun.

The next temple made with hands was the tabernacle in the wilderness.
The third was Solomon's temple.
The fourth was the temple built after Cyrus issued the decree it could be built.
Then Herod remodeled it.

Then Rome took it and the temple mount on which it sat down to the ground [it was not sitting where the Dome of the Rock is, for that was where the Roman fort for the soldiers was].

There is going to be another temple built in Israel, called the tribulation temple.

Then the millennial temple will be built which Ezekiel gave the detailed plans for.


And with this "temple" you are supporting oppression and Israel's continually defiances against international law. And the miseries suffered upon the indigeneous peoples of Palestine. You are supporting the denial of their rights and you are supporting a third world war.

This is the "armageddon cult".
 
Upvote 0

random person

1 COR. 10:11; HEB. 1:2; HEB. 9:26,28; 1 PET. 1:20
Dec 10, 2013
3,646
262
Riverside California
✟29,087.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
No, it is actually a prophecy that Jesus made in Matthew 23.

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.


Again, you are confusing theology with prophecy. Prophecy is something that is going to take place, regardless of theology.


You are probably not aware of it, but the prime reason the Jews reject the gospel is because Jesus did not appear to anyone after the resurrection other than those who believed in him before the cross. But Jesus in Matthew 23 said they would not see him again until they, Jerusalem, which must be in the hands of the Jews, say blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord. Most countermissionary Jews are not aware of that verse.

No this all about common sense and Christian conscience and morality.
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
30,368
3,604
Non-dispensationalist
✟438,698.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
And with this "temple" you are supporting oppression and Israel's continually defiances against international law.
And the miseries suffered upon the indigeneous peoples of Palestine. You are supporting the denial of their rights and you are supporting a third world war.

This is the "armageddon cult".

It's a religious conflict. Islam against Judaism. Islam has lied about God, that's why in Ezekiel 38, Islam will be judged.
 
Upvote 0

ebedmelech

My dog Micah in the pic
Site Supporter
Jul 3, 2012
9,002
680
✟235,464.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
Hi eb, that passage doesn't address what tribe does it? The issue is bible prophecy, not theology.
Because you have to think. How does tribes matter when we saints are "A ROYAL PRIESTHOOD", and JESUS IS THE HIGH PRIEST?

Work with that a minute.
 
Upvote 0

random person

1 COR. 10:11; HEB. 1:2; HEB. 9:26,28; 1 PET. 1:20
Dec 10, 2013
3,646
262
Riverside California
✟29,087.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
It's a religious conflict. Islam against Judaism. Islam has lied about God, that's why in Ezekiel 38, Islam will be judged.

So, the Talmud lied about God too. Judaism is foremost about the study of the Talmud rather than the study of the Torah. Or did you not know?
 
Upvote 0

random person

1 COR. 10:11; HEB. 1:2; HEB. 9:26,28; 1 PET. 1:20
Dec 10, 2013
3,646
262
Riverside California
✟29,087.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
The Talmud is a huge collection of doctrines and laws compiled and written before the 8th Century, A.D., by ancient Jewish teachers. The Talmud, which often cites the Old Testament, is the basic book of Jewish law.

Babylonian and Palestinian Talmuds
There are two editions of the Talmud; one was composed by Babylonian Jews and one by Jews who lived in ancient Jerusalem. Generally a citation from the Talmud refers to the Babylonian version, which is considered authoritative. The Jerusalem Talmud is not generally taught in even the most Orthodox Jewish schools today, though advanced Talmud scholars sometimes study it.​
— Anti-Defamation League (12)
(Note: Some say the "Jerusalem Talmud" should really be called the "Palestinian Talmud." [13])
Talmud Presentation

The material of the Talmud is presented as series of statements of principles and derivative discussions between the rabbinic Sages and schools of rabbinic Sages in the centuries preceding. Many of the discussions have no obvious sequence or context, leading to controversies among Talmudic scholars concerning the quality of its organization (see Is Talmud Law in Order or Disorder? [15]).

Usually there is a paragraph or two of core doctrine (Mishnah), followed by dialog (Gemara) that expands and interprets the Mishnah. (14) The Talmud is organized into six major orders, called Seders, and each Seder is organized into a number of books ("tractates"), comprising 63 tractates in all and more than four million words. The Sages of the Talmud were teachers, judges, and sometimes priests of the Temple. Their legal decisions had the power of life and death over the Jewish people.

Soncino Talmud


soncino-set151.jpg
The editor's 1961 Soncino Talmud set. Many of the tractates have been transcribed and appear on the Come and Hear™ website. The Soncino Press Babylonian Talmud was the first complete English translation. It was translated into English under the editorship of Rabbi Dr. Isidore Epstein of Jews' College, London. The 63 tractates were translated by the leading rabbinical scholars of the day, and the final work was praised by many prominent rabbinical authorities, including two successive Chief Rabbis of the British Commonwealth. Each of the six Seders was published individually as it became available in the years between 1935 and 1948. See also Kudos for Soncino.

Each tractate includes an introduction by the translator, a running commentary of extensive footnotes, a scriptural index, a glossary, and an index of words and subjects. In 1952, the individual indices were compiled, the Rabbinic Index was added, and the collection was published as a separate volume. (29) In 1961, the full set — containing all six seders, all 63 tractates, and the General Index — was republished without copyright notice on fine paper in 18 volumes. Pictured on the right is the author's copy of the 1961 edition, containing almost six million words. A number of the tractates from the author's copy have been transcribed into hypertext and appear on the Come and Hear™ website. Learn how this hypertext copy has been organized in Structure of the Talmud. Later, Soncino cut and pasted the original galleys into a larger format and republished the volumes with Hebrew and English on facing pages.

Ancient Roots


According to Talmud scholars, the Talmud is the written form of the teachings of the Pharisees — the very sect of Jewish priests with whom Jesus of Nazareth argued. Consider this passage from the translator of New Edition of the Babylonian Talmud and author of the History of the Talmud, Rabbi Michael Rodkinson:
rodkinson100.jpg
Is the literature that Jesus was familiar with in his early years yet in existence in the world? Is it possible for us to get at it? Can we ourselves review the ideas, the statements, the modes of reasoning and thinking, on moral and religious subjects, which were current in his time, and must have been [resolved] by him during those silent thirty years when he was pondering his future mission? To such inquiries the learned class of Jewish rabbis answer by holding up the Talmud. Here, say they, is the source from whence Jesus of Nazareth drew the teaching which enabled him to revolutionize the world; and the question becomes, therefore, an interesting one to every Christian, What is the Talmud? …

The Talmud, then, is the written form of that which, in the time of Jesus, was called the Traditions of the Elders, and to which he makes frequent allusions.​
— Rabbi Michael L. Rodkinson (1)

Or consider this from The Universal Jewish Encyclopedia, in the entry "Pharisees":
The Jewish religion as it is today traces its descent, without a break, through all the centuries, from the Pharisees.

Their leading ideas and methods found expression in a literature of enormous extent, of which a very great deal is still in existence. The Talmud is the largest and most important single member of that literature, and round it are gathered a number of Midrashim, partly legal (Halachic) and partly works of edification (Haggadic). This literature, in its oldest elements, goes back to a time before the beginning of the Common Era, and comes down into the Middle Ages. Through it all run the lines of thought which were first drawn by the Pharisees, and the study of it is essential for any real understanding of Pharisaism.​
— R. Travers Herford for the Universal Jewish Encyclopedia. (2)

Rabbi Dr. Louis Finkelstein, Instructor of Talmud, and later president of the Jewish Theological Seminary of America, writes:
finkelstein100.jpg
Pharisaism became Talmudism, Talmudism became Medieval Rabbinism, and Medieval Rabbinism became Modern Rabbinism. But throughout these changes of name, inevitable adaptation of custom, and adjustment of Law, the spirit of the ancient Pharisee survives unaltered. When the Jew reads his prayers, he is reciting formulae prepared by pre-Maccabean scholars; when he dons the cloak prescribed for the Day of Atonement and Passover Eve, he is wearing the festival garment of ancient Jerusalem; when he studies the Talmud, he is actually repeating the arguments used in the Palestinian academies.​
— Rabbi Dr. Finkelstein (3)

Thus, perhaps, we can understand some of the tension that has historically existed between Christianity and Judaism. According to the New Testament of the Bible, Jesus of Nazareth expressed strong personal feelings about the Pharisees in the following words:

  • Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
— John 8:44 (4)

Modern Significance of the Talmud

Many famous Jewish religious and secular writers have commented on the roll of the Talmud in modern Judaism. We have met some of these writers in What We're About.

Rabbi Adin Even Israel Steinsaltz is the founder of the Israel Institute for Talmudic Publications, and has enjoyed the backing of Israeli presidents and prime ministers; he is a recipient of Israel's highest civilian honor, the Israel Prize. He is currently translating the Talmud into English, French, and Russian. In 1976, he writes:
If the Bible is the cornerstone of Judaism, then the Talmud is the central pillar, soaring up from the foundations and supporting the entire spiritual and intellectual edifice. In many ways the Talmud is the most important book in Jewish culture, the backbone of creativity and of national life. No other work has had a comparable influence on the theory and practice of Jewish life, shaping spiritual content and serving as a guide to conduct.​
— Rabbi Steinsaltz (7)
Herman Wouk is a Pulitzer Prize-winning author of 11 novels, three plays and two works of nonfiction. In his book, This is My God; the Jewish Way of Life, serialized in the New York Herald-Tribune in 1959, he writes:
The Talmud is to this day the circulating heart's blood of the Jewish religion. Whatever laws, customs or ceremonies we observe — whether we are Orthodox, Conservative, Reform or merely spasmodic sentimentalists — we follow the Talmud. It is our common law.​
— Herman Wouk (8)


Rabbi Dr. Jacob Neusner is Research Professor of Religion and Theology at Bard College and Senior Fellow of the Institute of Advanced Theology at Bard as well. He also is a Member of the Institute for Advanced Study, Princeton NJ, and Life Member of Clare Hall, Cambridge University, in England. He has published more than 850 books and numerous articles, both scholarly and academic and popular and journalistic, and is the most published humanities scholar in the world. (9) In 1990, Rabbi Dr. Neusner writes:
The Bavli [Babylonian Talmud] has formed the definitive statement of Judaism from the time of its closure to the present day.​
— Rabbi Dr. Neusner (9)


For a useful overview of the Talmud, see the InfoPlease.com definitions. (11)


http://come-and-hear.com/editor/whatis.html
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
30,368
3,604
Non-dispensationalist
✟438,698.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
So, the Talmud lied about God too. Judaism is foremost about the study of the Talmud rather than the study of the Torah. Or did you not know?

Ezekiel 38 is about the judgment on Islam. That God backs Israel is not a validation of the Talmud. God is going to bring the Jews to Christ.
 
Upvote 0

random person

1 COR. 10:11; HEB. 1:2; HEB. 9:26,28; 1 PET. 1:20
Dec 10, 2013
3,646
262
Riverside California
✟29,087.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
Ezekiel 38 is about the judgment on Islam. That God backs Israel is not a validation of the Talmud. God is going to bring the Jews to Christ.

According to your beliefs. You are a Christian Zionist. And God has already brought many Jews to Christ as there was always been a remnant since the time of Paul.

I take a preterist stance on Ezekiel 38. Why would God bring down the unjust suffering of millions of souls only to execute most of them with armageddon.

I also do not believe in the Rapture. The New Testament writer warns ALL believers in 2 Peter 3:11. He is not just warning the Jews, he is warning ALL Christians too, meaning we are going to be there on the Day of the Lord a la Christian and Jews and we better be ready.
 
Upvote 0

shturt678s

Regular Member
Dec 11, 2013
2,733
118
✟25,797.00
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Single
Hi Jack, that argument is long since dead, because of 1948 and 1967. Israel as a nation and people of the twelve tribes bloodline are right on the map and the center of world attention.

So the bankster's and Secret Society's post 1948 nation of Israel has you baffooned too.

I have enough cleaning supplies for you to, joining me in our bathroon cleaning ministry, ie, someone has to do it?

btw I think we ought to bring that argument back to life in order to call the devil is a liar, together, ie, what do you think?

Jack, your old buddy Doug
 
Upvote 0

shturt678s

Regular Member
Dec 11, 2013
2,733
118
✟25,797.00
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Single
So, the Talmud lied about God too. Judaism is foremost about the study of the Talmud rather than the study of the Torah. Or did you not know?

I really don't know if we can trust the 613 mitzvot, ie, what do you think?

I'm more of a Tanakh Christian myself,

Jack
 
Upvote 0

ebedmelech

My dog Micah in the pic
Site Supporter
Jul 3, 2012
9,002
680
✟235,464.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
Hi eb, that passage doesn't address what tribe does it? The issue is bible prophecy, not theology.
Bible prophecy doesn't address tribes in the NT AT ALL until God speaks to the fullness of all believers as the 144.000 by the 12,000 of each tribe. Isn't it interesting after John hears the 144,000 he sees a great multitude which no one could number?

You're going down a dead end Doug...not Jesus nor the apostles speak in terms of tribes except as I said above. There's a reason for that...which is...IT DOESN'T MATTER!

Go ahead and think tribes matter...but you'll see the don't. Once again you dodge...you don't address the issue.
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
30,368
3,604
Non-dispensationalist
✟438,698.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
According to your beliefs. You are a Christian Zionist. And God has already brought many Jews to Christ as there was always been a remnant since the time of Paul.

I believe that God gave the land of Israel to the Jews, the blood descendants of the 12 tribes. Yes.

I take a preterist stance on Ezekiel 38. Why would God bring down the unjust suffering of millions of souls only to execute most of them with armageddon.

please clarify your statement.

I also do not believe in the Rapture. The New Testament writer warns ALL believers in 2 Peter 3:11. He is not just warning the Jews, he is warning ALL Christians too, meaning we are going to be there on the Day of the Lord a la Christian and Jews and we better be ready.

The rapture is the event of 1thessalonians4:15-18.
 
Upvote 0

yeshuasavedme

Senior Veteran
May 31, 2004
12,811
779
✟112,705.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Bible prophecy doesn't address tribes in the NT AT ALL until God speaks to the fullness of all believers as the 144.000 by the 12,000 of each tribe.

...

Ebed,
Your twisting of Scripture is amazing!
Your blindness is deafening!
You claim -on the one hand- that "there are no Jews in the body of Christ" and then you claim that the 12,000 males from twelve tribes of Israel are just another name for "believers"!

"If the blind lead the blind, they both fall into the ditch".


Then, you are even deluded to think that there are no tribes mentioned in the NT, when in fact, the LORD Jesus is "the Lion of the tribe of Judah!

Revelation 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.


Then, you are even more deluded in your claim that there is no prophetic mention of the tribes in the NT, when the City of God has twelve gates of pearl named after the twelve tribes of Israel!

The Gentiles of the world will go into that Holy city through the twelve gates of Israel's tribes!

12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
24 And the Gentiles of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the Gentiles into it.
9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.
19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;
20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolyte; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.
21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls: every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
24 And the Gentiles of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the Gentiles into it.
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Ebed, your gospel message is false.
 
Upvote 0

shturt678s

Regular Member
Dec 11, 2013
2,733
118
✟25,797.00
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Single
For example, ie, just trying to help, long ago, when the 10 tribes of the northern kingdom had been deported into Assyria, these 10 disappeared completely; they were absorbed by paganism.

In addition, 25 years or so before John's writing, the remaining 2 tribes, Judah and Benjamin, lost their national existence and never regained it.

My point is the 144,000 is the perfectly complete number of God's people is symbolized,

Looking for my false teeth again? Jack
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.