3rd Temple coming soon..

[random person]

I believe the gist of Christian theology and prophecy is between Matthew through to Jude.

There is alot of cryptic prophecy in the Old Testament and in Revelations. So cryptic, no two interpretations are alike. There are alot of spin-doctors making real bank off of these books and passages. Like Hal Lindsay and LeHaye.

I reiterate, between the books of Matthew through to Jude, it is all about listening and obeying Jesus and the Apostles. These books pretty much clear the air IMHO.

EDIT: additionally the prophet writers used alot of flourish and embellishment in the language of their prophecies too.

EDIT2: My Bible formula = Jesus (Gospels) & Apostles (Epistles) > Cryptic Prophecies with their multiple interpretations (Ezekiel 38&39, Zechariah 14, Revelations, etc)

 

[random person]

Look at how destructive Christian Zionism and Dispensationalism is to the Gospel and the commandments of Christ?

The Jews need to return to the holy land before Christ will return, in doing so, dispossess and occupy millions of indigeneous peoples?

The Temple needs to be rebuilt before Christ will return?

World War III needs to commence before Christ will return?

1/3 of the World's population must perish before Christ's return (including millions of Jews in Israel)?

Peace in the Middle East will foil Christ's return?

 

[n2thelight]

Look at how destructive Christian Zionism and Dispensationalism is to the Gospel and the commandments of Christ?

The Jews need to return to the holy land before Christ will return, in doing so, dispossess and occupy millions of indigeneous peoples?

The Temple needs to be rebuilt before Christ will return?

World War III needs to commence before Christ will return?

1/3 of the World's population must perish before Christ's return (including millions of Jews in Israel)?

Peace in the Middle East will foil Christ's return?

Peace in the world will not foil Christ's return,for that is exactly the time He shall return.........................

 

[Douggg]

Look at how destructive Christian Zionism and Dispensationalism is to the Gospel and the commandments of Christ?

The Jews need to return to the holy land before Christ will return, in doing so, dispossess and occupy millions of indigeneous peoples?

The Temple needs to be rebuilt before Christ will return?

World War III needs to commence before Christ will return?

1/3 of the World's population must perish before Christ's return (including millions of Jews in Israel)?

Peace in the Middle East will foil Christ's return?

The prophecies say what is going to happen. Noah built the ark as God told him. We are told to watch and be ready in Luke 21:34-36.

 

[ebedmelech]

The prophecies say what is going to happen. Noah built the ark as God told him. We are told to watch and be ready in Luke 21:34-36.

That's what you have been taught to think the prophecies say.

*Why doesn't Jesus say any of that?

*Why do the apostles say none of that?

*Why did Jesus start them in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and to the ends of the earth with the gospel?

This is not about anything but God choosing out a people for His name, and they will be the "True Israel" Doug, that is why Paul said "they are not all Israel that are descended form Israel".

You need to think long an hard about that one...because the teaching of the apostles oppose your viewpoint.

 

[Douggg]

My theory is no myth 1 Thess. 4:16, 5:2, 2 Thess. 4:16, and 2 Peter 3:10 are all describing the same event. And these passages issue warnings to Christians.

Why are they issuing warnings to Christians if we are already raptured from the Earth? Eh?

1 Thess. 5:2 is issuing a warning to Christians!

2 Thess. 1:7 is issuing a warning to Christians!

2 Peter 3:11 is issuing a warning to Christians!

Jesus issued a warning to Christians in Matt. 24:44!

These aren't warnings to post-rapture Jews!!!!! They are warnings to us, the Church itself!!!!!

The Rapture is a false teaching. And the "Armageddon cult" is heretical. It believes in war, it supports an apostate Israel that commit crimes against humanity. Wake up!

Those verses teach just the opposite of your statement "the rapture is a false teaching". The rapture is this part of the event of 1Thessalonians4:15-18. The part highlighted in blue in verse 17 is the rapture. It is going to happen.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


What "Armageddon cult" are you talking about? Armageddon is part of bible prophecy.

Revelation 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

 

[Douggg]

That's what you have been taught to think the prophecies say.

*Why doesn't Jesus say any of that?

End times prophecies did come from Jesus in the gospels and Revelation.

*Why do the apostles say none of that?

The disciples did give prophecies in their letters. What the disciples did not do is put all the end times prophecies of the old testament and the new testament together into one start to finish package because that understanding was not given to them. Because it was not for them to know as Jesus told them in Acts 1:7.

6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

*Why did Jesus start them in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and to the ends of the earth with the gospel?

Because God is long suffering that none should perish.

This is not about anything but God choosing out a people for His name, and they will be the "True Israel" Doug, that is why Paul said "they are not all Israel that are descended form Israel".

Again, you are confusing prophecy with theology. You are taking a theology misunderstanding and using it to deny the prophecies which in fact have been fulfilled regarding Israel having become a nation again for the whole world to see.

The fact that israel is a nation again should tell you that your understanding of those passages is wrong. But instead, you are trying to explain away Israel.

You need to think long an hard about that one...because the teaching of the apostles oppose your viewpoint.

I am saying just the opposite of what you are, eb.

 

[shturt678s]

We need to remove the ball and chain with the fallacious rendering in IIThess.2:4 only for starters. Purge "Temple," and simply merge "Sanctuary."

Now for enders, just look within making sure someone else has not replaced the residing of the Holy Spirit within one's "Sanctuary." Due to IIThess.2:10b even now?

Jack

 

[ebedmelech]

End times prophecies did come from Jesus in the gospels and Revelation.
The disciples did give prophecies in their letters. What the disciples did not do is put all the end times prophecies of the old testament and the new testament together into one start to finish package because that understanding was not given to them. Because it was not for them to know as Jesus told them in Acts 1:7.

6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

They didn't have to. Jesus knew exactly what He was saying because they had not received the Holy Spirit yet. When they did, the revelations started coming to them.

Peter starts out in his first sermon speaking to the fulfillment of Joel 2...so your point is moot. Peter and Paul are giving revelation of the OT prophets in their writings and NOT one of them talks of a 3rd temple, a restoration of Israel, or any of that because they know it doesn't apply. They speak of New Jerusalem, True Israel, and saint's as the priesthood!

Because God is long suffering that none should perish.

A true point...but this is what you neglect again...God is choosing out "a people" for his name...and race doesn't matter. We believers are ALL Abraham's seed...and that is True Israel!

Again, you are confusing prophecy with theology. You are taking a theology misunderstanding and using it to deny the prophecies which in fact have been fulfilled regarding Israel having become a nation again for the whole world to see.

Nope. I haven't confused a thing, you have! it's not "theology" when God says it. What does God say through the apostles about Israel? He says "they are not all Israel that are descended from Israel"...that's not theology...that is written! The apostle goes ahead and quotes Hosea and Isaiah to make that point...that to is written!

It's not "theology" it's written!

The fact that israel is a nation again should tell you that your understanding of those passages is wrong. But instead, you are trying to explain away Israel.

I am saying just the opposite of what you are, eb.

Israel being a nation doesn't change the fact that True Israel is those born of the Spirit. I don't have to explain anything away...you do.

Who does Peter call "A chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession"? We know that WAS Israel until the cross...then that became all who will believe on Christ in the NT...the True Israel!

 

[shturt678s]

They didn't have to. Jesus knew exactly what He was saying because they had not received the Holy Spirit yet. When they did, the revelations started coming to them.

Peter starts out in his first sermon speaking to the fulfillment of Joel 2...so your point is moot. Peter and Paul are giving revelation of the OT prophets in their writings and NOT one of them talks of a 3rd temple, a restoration of Israel, or any of that because they know it doesn't apply. They speak of New Jerusalem, True Israel, and saint's as the priesthood!

A true point...but this is what you neglect again...God is choosing out "a people" for his name...and race doesn't matter. We believers are ALL Abraham's seed...and that is True Israel!

Nope. I haven't confused a thing, you have! it's not "theology" when God says it. What does God say through the apostles about Israel? He says "they are not all Israel that are descended from Israel"...that's not theology...that is written! The apostle goes ahead and quotes Hosea and Isaiah to make that point...that to is written!

It's not "theology" it's written!

Israel being a nation doesn't change the fact that True Israel is those born of the Spirit. I don't have to explain anything away...you do.

Who does Peter call "A chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession"? We know that WAS Israel until the cross...then that became all who will believe on Christ in the NT...the True Israel!

Bolded by me.

Or after Pentecost? No refute

 

[Interplanner]

Shtrt,
I think that that "Israel" was introduced in Jn 1:47. Bear in that this is not that removed from 1:13, in the telling of the story.

 

[shturt678s]

Shtrt,
I think that that "Israel" was introduced in Jn 1:47. Bear in that this is not that removed from 1:13, in the telling of the story.

Removed!, ie, Jn.1:47 construed with Rom.9:6. Nathanael was one of them, ie, the latter of 9:6. This word of Jesus concerning Nathanael can be understood only in connection with the conversion of Philip with Nathanael. Jesus, in His divine way knew.

Thank you again,

Jack

 

[random person]

Peace in the world will not foil Christ's return,for that is exactly the time He shall return.........................

I place teachings of Jesus and the apostles above cryptic embellished prophecies with multiple interpretations.

What does Jesus say about the matter?

Matt. 24:44 For this reason you need to be ready too, for the. Son of Man is coming at hour when you do not know think He will.

Acts 1:6-7 And so when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, "Lord, is it at this time. You are restoring the kingdom of Israel?" He said to them, "It is not for you to know the times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority."

1 These. 5:1-2 Now as to the times and the epochs, brethren, you have no need of anything to be written to you. For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night.

Why is Paul warning his brethren about the day of the Lord rather than "rapture"?????

 

[random person]

Those verses teach just the opposite of your statement "the rapture is a false teaching". The rapture is this part of the event of 1Thessalonians4:15-18. The part highlighted in blue in verse 17 is the rapture. It is going to happen.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


What "Armageddon cult" are you talking about? Armageddon is part of bible prophecy.

Revelation 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

No, that verse is simply saying is that the dead will precede the living upon the coming of the Lord upon which the Lord will also descend with a shout and the voice of an archangel. This isnt a rapture. It is the day of the Lord. There is nothing secretive or subtle as a "rapture" in this prophecy. The Lord comes with a shout and the voice of an archangel. This indicates that the world will witness this event if not hear it.

Yes, it is Armageddon cult as you are prepared for WWIII rather than looking for and hastening the day of the Lord, 2 Peter 3:11

 

[Interplanner]

Warning or reminding? The two things belong together, but they had heard someone say the day of the Lord had already happened. (This misunderstanding exhibits the fact that the end of the world was thought to be 'right after' the barrage of difficulties, which were virtually incessant in mid-1st century Judea. There were several times when it would seem that the 'unequalled distress' was there. See the summary by Holford, a thread here).

 

[Interplanner]

Random,
regarding your icon and map. Are you generally for Islamic shari'a in the region? Or anywhere?

 

[ebedmelech]

I place teachings of Jesus and the apostles above cryptic embellished prophecies with multiple interpretations.

You will never get it that way, because Jesus quoted the prophets. What you call "cryptic" is not cryptic but in some instances apocalyptic, figurative, or allegory.

If Jesus understands them we certainly can, and in many cases the prophet explain themselves.

What I *hear* you saying is you don't want to labor to dig into the word and learn how to understand. Believe me, none of us are 100% accurate in how we understand and apply God's word...it's a life long process.

When you read Daniel, and you see he's befuddled about visions/dreams he saw...and he needs Gabriel to explain it to him, that should tell you something.

 

[random person]

Random,
regarding your icon and map. Are you generally for Islamic shari'a in the region? Or anywhere?

I am a anti-Zionist, Pro-Palestinian Christian. Islam and Shari'a have nothing to do with my views. Israel is intentionally making the lives of the Palestinians living hell in an attempt to ethically cleanse them and demographically dominate them.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dR2ZUQg_StU

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Warning or reminding? The two things belong together, but they had heard someone say the day of the Lord had already happened. (This misunderstanding exhibits the fact that the end of the world was thought to be 'right after' the barrage of difficulties, which were virtually incessant in mid-1st century Judea. There were several times when it would seem that the 'unequalled distress' was there. See the summary by Holford, a thread here).

Originally Posted by Interplanner

Random,
regarding your icon and map. Are you generally for Islamic shari'a in the region? Or anywhere?
​

I am a anti-Zionist, Pro-Palestinian Christian. Islam and Shari'a have nothing to do with my views.

Israel is intentionally making the lives of the Palestinians living hell in an attempt to ethically cleanse them and demographically dominate them.

Informative post.

And fwiw, some of us here are well aware of your "anti-Zionist" views,
and I tend to agree with most of what you posts concerning Christian Zionists.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7425735/
Christian Zionism - a modern-day heresy?

..............................................

.

 

[ebedmelech]

I am a anti-Zionist, Pro-Palestinian Christian. Islam and Shari'a have nothing to do with my views. Israel is intentionally making the lives of the Palestinians living hell in an attempt to ethically cleanse them and demographically dominate them.

I already know the score with that...and many Christians who think it's all about Israel just turn their heads the other way. Israel can do no wrong.

The Palestinians have been equally wrong, especially with the terrorism.

The thing is we know God is a God of justice and equity...and that should be the goal.

People seem to forget Jesus came for the people of Ishmael and Esau too...there is NO partiality with God.