3rd Temple coming soon..

[shturt678s]

Reminds me of this:

American Orthodox Jewish convert to Islam with his family

Joseph Cohen moved from the United States to Israel as a devout Jew in 1998, but within three years he had converted to Islam and become Yosef Mohammed Khatib.
Now he refuses to say the word Israel, choosing instead to call the area "Palestine." His four children study the Qur'an, the Muslim holy book, instead of the Torah, its Jewish counterpart.
It was while living in the desert town of Netivot that Khatib met a sheik from the United Arab Emirates through an Internet chat about Israel. Khatib said he spent hours corresponding with the sheik, discussing theology. Gradually he began to see Judaism as racist and turned toward Islam after reading the Qur'an, he told Channel 10 TV. The report did not say where he lived in the United States or give his age.
Last year he told his wife of 10 years, Luna, also a devout Jew from the United States, that he wanted to convert to Islam.
"I said, `Listen, I love you very much ... and I have to be honest with you,'" Khatib said in the TV interview. "I read the Qur'an and I agree with everything it says in the Qur'an, and if I continue saying that I'm a religious Jew, I would be a liar."
The family converted together and moved from Netivot to an Arab neighborhood in east Jerusalem. The children went from being top in their classes on Judaism studies to being well-versed in Islam, he said.
Instead of supporting the Israeli Orthodox Jewish political party Shas, Khatib now supports the Palestinians and believes in Islamic state should be set up where Israel and the Palestinian areas are now located.
Wearing the white skullcap and robes of a religious Muslim, Khatib denied his Jewish past, insisting that he is 100 percent Muslim. He made a parody of a blessing that observant Jews say every morning, in which they thank God for not making them gentiles.

"Blessed are Thou, Lord Our God," Khatib began in the traditional Jewish blessing, but ended it with, "for not making me a Jew."



.

Or, on second thought - I'm still slow on the uptake, Jack

 

[ShedSinforChrist]

On the contrary. I think it's simply making the point that before Christ, Gentiles had no real knowledge of how to worship God. This was because Israel did not *for the most part* continue to be the people God called them to be, Nations were to come to the knowledge of God through them, just as through us now!

The Jews knew God because they were in covenant with God. Jesus is going to "bridge the gap" and He reveals himself to this Gentile woman as messiah!


Oh no! As we read the gospels we see Jesus granting Gentiles salvation...so that cannot be the point. A point that is *sometimes* neglected is that even in Judaism a Gentile could become a Jew! Exodus 12:42-49 makes that point as God tells Moses as He intstitutes the Passover:
42 It is a night to be observed for the Lord for having brought them out from the land of Egypt; this night is for the Lord, to be observed by all the sons of Israel throughout their generations.
43 The Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “This is the ordinance of the Passover: no foreigner is to eat of it;
44 but every man’s slave purchased with money, after you have circumcised him, then he may eat of it.
45 A sojourner or a hired servant shall not eat of it.
46 It is to be eaten in a single house; you are not to bring forth any of the flesh outside of the house, nor are you to break any bone of it.
47 All the congregation of Israel are to celebrate this.
48 But if a stranger sojourns with you, and celebrates the Passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near to celebrate it; and he shall be like a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person may eat of it.
49 The same law shall apply to the native as to the stranger who sojourns among you.”
This is why we find Gentiles who converted to Judaism in the Line of Christ, like Rahab and Ruth!

Well yes...but at the same time it would be no different than it was for the apostle Paul. We find this to be an issue in Acts 15. Paul wrote of this issue constantly...particulary in Galatians and Ephesians. So when we find it difficult for Jews we may witness to, to receive Jesus as their meassiah and they refuse, Romans 11:25, 26 should come to mind.

There is! We see the link in the opening verse of each. Luke is writing to a man named Theophilus in both. Acts is a sequel to Luke!

Glad we can agree...

I guess what I am saying is that Christ obviously would never have been taken serious, or might have even been killed by the Gentiles.

He had to come according to Gods plan for salvation. I have noted in Scripture when Christ brings a gentile to salvation, but I understand that he had to keep his focus on the Jews.

I love the "bridge the gap" analogy of yours, Im going to pocket that little gem!

Cheers

 

[ebedmelech]

I guess what I am saying is that Christ obviously would never have been taken serious, or might have even been killed by the Gentiles.

He had to come according to Gods plan for salvation. I have noted in Scripture when Christ brings a gentile to salvation, but I understand that he had to keep his focus on the Jews.

I love the "bridge the gap" analogy of yours, Im going to pocket that little gem!

Cheers

Indeed...but hold the OT prophets that told of Him as a "Light to the Gentiles"!

John 1:9-12
9 There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.
11 He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

We MUST hold it all in context when it comes to Christ...KNOWING that He is God's plan "from the foundation of the world", pronounced in Genesis 3:15!!!

 

[L0U]

I've heard some say that the Temple could be re-built vitually over night, or that they're ready to do it, but I doubt it:

Why do we no longer bring animal sacrifices?

 

[ShedSinforChrist]

I've heard some say that the Temple could be re-built vitually over night, or that they're ready to do it, but I doubt it:

Why do we no longer bring animal sacrifices?

Overnight?

Doubt it, though the Jews have all the priests trained and everything to build the temple with ready to go, so who knows.

They would have to destroy the dome of the rock or this peace deal with Palestine has to go through in order to begin construction.

Its funny Israel cant get peace with Palestine, so John Kerry and the Pope are helping to "confirm" the deal, lol.

 

[Interplanner]

And you have to resolve whether Israel operates on a separate track of theology etc from the Gospel. You have to resolve who the Letter to Hebrews refers to.

 

[Sojourner1]

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[Interplanner]

The Gospel going to the nations was never the mystery that the NT refers to (Paul, Rom 16, Col 1, 2, Eph 3). Not with Gen 3:16 smack at the problem point at the beginning. It was how the Gospel goes to them. It is apart from the Law.

It was never a mystery that this age was coming. The church is not a parenthesis that took everyone by surprise, especially D'ists and futurists. However, that the nations would be saved by faith in the work of another person was the mystery that is no longer, and it put everyone who believes on equal inheritance grounds (Eph 3).

 

[iamlamad]

Or, on second thought - I'm still slow on the uptake, Jack

This guy has made a HUGE mistake!
May God help him discover the TRUTH before it is too late for him.

LAMAD

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

This guy has made a HUGE mistake!
May God help him discover the TRUTH before it is too late for him.

LAMAD

What truth is that?


.

 

[ebedmelech]

The Gospel going to the nations was never the mystery that the NT refers to (Paul, Rom 16, Col 1, 2, Eph 3). Not with Gen 3:16 smack at the problem point at the beginning. It was how the Gospel goes to them. It is apart from the Law.

It was never a mystery that this age was coming. The church is not a parenthesis that took everyone by surprise, especially D'ists and futurists. However, that the nations would be saved by faith in the work of another person was the mystery that is no longer, and it put everyone who believes on equal inheritance grounds (Eph 3).

Indeed it was the mystery Inter. Paul says so himself in Ephesians 3:1-12
For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles—
2 if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God’s grace which was given to me for you;
3 that by revelation there was made known to me the mystery, as I wrote before in brief.
4 By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ,
5 which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit;
6 to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel,
7 of which I was made a minister, according to the gift of God’s grace which was given to me according to the working of His power.
8 To me, the very least of all saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ,
9 and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God who created all things;
10 so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places.
11 This was in accordance with the eternal purpose which He carried out in Christ Jesus our Lord,
12 in whom we have boldness and confident access through faith in Him.

So the gospel going to the Gentiles IS the mystery...however, it was more a matter of HOW God would accomplish it that was the mystery!

The apostle is very consistent on this:
Part of the mystery is the blinding of Israel...Romans 11:25:
25 For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;

Simply search "the mystery" and you will know it's about this.

 

[ShedSinforChrist]

Indeed it was the mystery Inter. Paul says so himself in Ephesians 3:1-12
For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles—
2 if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God’s grace which was given to me for you;
3 that by revelation there was made known to me the mystery, as I wrote before in brief.
4 By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ,
5 which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit;
6 to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel,
7 of which I was made a minister, according to the gift of God’s grace which was given to me according to the working of His power.
8 To me, the very least of all saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ,
9 and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God who created all things;
10 so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places.
11 This was in accordance with the eternal purpose which He carried out in Christ Jesus our Lord,
12 in whom we have boldness and confident access through faith in Him.

So the gospel going to the Gentiles IS the mystery...however, it was more a matter of HOW God would accomplish it that was the mystery!

The apostle is very consistent on this:
Part of the mystery is the blinding of Israel...Romans 11:25:
25 For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;

Simply search "the mystery" and you will know it's about this.

this post.

So true.

Cheers

 

[Interplanner]

Don't forget the Stott quote:

[FONT=&quot]J. Stott on Ephesians 3[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]In “Ephesians—John Stott Bible Studies”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The statements in verses 5 and 9 that the mystery was not made known in other generations have puzzled bible readers because the Old Testament did reveal that God had a purpose for the Gentiles. It promised, for example, that all the families of the earth would be blessed through Abrahams’s posterity; that the Messiah would receive the nations as its inheritance; that Israel would be given as a light to the nations; and that one day the nations would make a pilgrimage to Jerusalem and even “flow to it” like a mighty river. But what was not revealed was the radical nature of God’s plan which was that the theocracy (the Jewish nation under God’s rule) would be terminated and replaced by a new international community, the church; that this church would be “the body of Christ,” organically united to him; and that Jews and Gentiles would be incorporated into Christ and his church on equal terms, without any distinction.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]P29[/FONT]


It was never a mystery or parenthesis or a surprise that the Gospel was going to the nations. Only how it would.

The way v6 was set up, all the weight falls on the "through the Gospel." It's that kind of prepositional phrase--accusative. The incoming of the Gentiles, their inheritance, their one peoplehood, with Israel was not mystery. This is why there are missionaries from Judaism to the world referred to by Jesus in Mt 23. Their method is at fault because they double the weight of the law. But not their mission, and it is obviously not a mystery!

I don't know any commentator that puts the Rom 11 mystery in the same category as Rom 16, Col 1, 3, Eph 3, because it is Israel's partial hardening when you would think Israel would be inclined to believe. The other mystery that is no longer mystery is that it is faith in Christ that puts people into the redeemed community, the real "Israel," etc.

 

[ebedmelech]

Don't forget the Stott quote:

[FONT=&quot]J. Stott on Ephesians 3[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]In “Ephesians—John Stott Bible Studies”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The statements in verses 5 and 9 that the mystery was not made known in other generations have puzzled bible readers because the Old Testament did reveal that God had a purpose for the Gentiles. It promised, for example, that all the families of the earth would be blessed through Abrahams’s posterity; that the Messiah would receive the nations as its inheritance; that Israel would be given as a light to the nations; and that one day the nations would make a pilgrimage to Jerusalem and even “flow to it” like a mighty river. But what was not revealed was the radical nature of God’s plan which was that the theocracy (the Jewish nation under God’s rule) would be terminated and replaced by a new international community, the church; that this church would be “the body of Christ,” organically united to him; and that Jews and Gentiles would be incorporated into Christ and his church on equal terms, without any distinction.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]P29[/FONT]


It was never a mystery or parenthesis or a surprise that the Gospel was going to the nations. Only how it would.

The way v6 was set up, all the weight falls on the "through the Gospel." It's that kind of prepositional phrase--accusative. The incoming of the Gentiles, their inheritance, their one peoplehood, with Israel was not mystery. This is why there are missionaries from Judaism to the world referred to by Jesus in Mt 23. Their method is at fault because they double the weight of the law. But not their mission, and it is obviously not a mystery!

I don't know any commentator that puts the Rom 11 mystery in the same category as Rom 16, Col 1, 3, Eph 3, because it is Israel's partial hardening when you would think Israel would be inclined to believe. The other mystery that is no longer mystery is that it is faith in Christ that puts people into the redeemed community, the real "Israel," etc.

The partial hardening isn't hard to understand when you factor in why it happened. Read the prophecies. Jesus said rightly did Isaiah prophesy "this people draws near to me with their lips, but their heart is far from me."

A hard heart can make it a mystery...look at Stephen as he preaches before he is martyred. Those who killed him had a perfect sermon preached but they didn't get it...it was a mystery (hidden). God does the revealing!

It's a mystery because the prophets didn't know how God would bless all nations through Abraham, nor did they know the time this would happen.

Keep in mind also all the disobedience of Israel which blinded them to understanding the prophets. How can you understand God in constant disobedience?

We see that mystery when we witness to those who after hearing the gospel cannot fathom how it can lead to salvation.

Yet through all of this God fulfills all He promised!!! Absolutely amazing!

This is Adam Clarke's Commentary of Ephesians 3:
Verse 5
Which in other ages was not made known - That the calling of the Gentiles was made known by the prophets in different ages of the Jewish Church is exceedingly clear; but it certainly was not made known in that clear and precise manner in which it was now revealed by the Spirit unto the ministers of the New Testament: nor was it made known unto them at all, that the Gentiles should find salvation without coming under the yoke of the Mosaic law, and that the Jews themselves should be freed from that yoke of bondage; these were discoveries totally new, and now revealed for the first time by the Spirit of God.

Verse 6
That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs - This is the substance of that mystery which had been hidden from all ages, and which was now made known to the New Testament apostles and prophets, and more particularly to St. Paul.

His promise in Christ - That the promise made to Abraham extended to the Gentiles, the apostle has largely proved in his Epistle to the Romans; and that it was to be fulfilled to them by and through Christ, he proves there also; and particularly in his Epistle to the Galatians, see Galatians 3:14. And that these blessings were to be announced in the preaching of the Gospel, and received on believing it, he every where declares, but more especially in this epistle.

That flows with what is said.

 

[iamlamad]

What truth is that?
.

The god of Islam is NOT the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

LAMAD

 

[Interplanner]

The time was clear; it was the Messianic age, which we are in. There are 100 OT passages about that. Clarke's line is very helpful, though, when he says they had no idea it would be apart from law. "apart from law" is one of the most valuable eschatological expressions we can learn, and it is embedded in Rom 3, 4, Gal 3, 4.

 

[Douggg]

The time was clear; it was the Messianic age, which we are in. There are 100 OT passages about that. Clarke's line is very helpful, though, when he says they had no idea it would be apart from law. "apart from law" is one of the most valuable eschatological expressions we can learn, and it is embedded in Rom 3, 4, Gal 3, 4.

In 70 Ad and with Hadrian, the unsaints, unbelieving Jerusalem was trodden down and not rescued.

In the prophecies of the end times, in Revelation, and Daniel 7 for example, the saints, believing Jerusalem, will be trodden down, but will be rescued when Jesus returns in Zechariah 14 to the Mt. of Olives.

 

[ebedmelech]

The time was clear; it was the Messianic age, which we are in. There are 100 OT passages about that. Clarke's line is very helpful, though, when he says they had no idea it would be apart from law. "apart from law" is one of the most valuable eschatological expressions we can learn, and it is embedded in Rom 3, 4, Gal 3, 4.

The apostle Paul makes sure we can understand when "the time" is:

Galatians 4:4, 5:
4 But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,
5 so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

Ephesians 2:9, 10:
9 He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him
10 with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth.

The issue is this...God made the mystery known...which is Christ...His gift to all who will come to Him!

 

[shturt678s]

Undress IIThess.2:6's "mystery" in relation to the "Temple" in v.4, or is it the Most Holy Place united to the Holy Place? I need a promotion, tired of cleaning latrines.

Anyway,

Jack

 

[random person]

[SIZE=+1]What is the purpose of this third temple & who will it serve?[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]

"We should not forget... that the supreme purpose of the ingathering of (Jewish) exiles and the establishment of our state is the building of the temple. The temple is at the very top of the pyramid"[/SIZE][SIZE=-2] [1]

[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]There is only one purpose or need for a third temple, and that is for Jews to return to the full Mosaic Law and temple services which involve animal sacrifice for sins. Equally, there is absolutely no use or need for a temple if there is no Ark of Covenant, upon which the blood must be offered, which has been curiously missing since before the time of Christ. It seems highly unlikely that the present guild of priests in training for temple services[/SIZE][SIZE=-2][2][/SIZE][SIZE=+1] would even exist if there were not reliable knowledge of the whereabouts of this centerpiece of the temple and its primary function. All other necessary artifacts for temple service, including the Shemen Afarshimon [/SIZE][SIZE=-2][3][/SIZE][SIZE=+1] - an original vial of anointing oil for the high priest - and the reappearance of the red heifer (the ash of which is vital to temple services) are in the possession of these Jewish priests today. The anticipated 'High Priest' is ultimately the awaited Messiah himself. For the Jews, his first appearing. To Christians, his Second Coming from heaven. But in both cases prophecy says first will come the deceiver, The Son of Perdition -- Antichrist.[/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]

The prophet Daniel foretold the time of the coming of Messiah, noting that he would appear after seventy weeks of years (as Hebrews counted time) from the signing of a decree to free the Jews from captivity in Babylon to return and rebuild Jerusalem and the temple. This took place in 444 B.C. [/SIZE][SIZE=-2][4][/SIZE][SIZE=+1] when Artaxerxes Longimanus, king of Persia (464-423 BC), signed such a decree and allowed the Jews to return. Exactly as according to the prophecy of Daniel, Y'shua of Nazareth (Jesus) presented himself before the people and to the temple as Messiah and King -- only to be rejected by the ruling religious authorities who had conspired against Him from the time of his equally foretold birth. [/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]

During the ministry of Christ, he declared publicly, "Tear down this temple and in three days I shall raise it up again," confounding the religious leaders and rabble alike. He was, of course, speaking not of the temple of stone and mortar, but of his own body as the final temple and final sacrifice for sins, as well as his triumphant resurrection from the dead (three days and nights in the tomb) -- forever putting away the need or use of the temple sacrifices of animals, which were merely a representative propitiation until the Messiah should come, offering his own life and blood as the price paid in full, acceptable unto God. The redemption of mankind from spiritual oblivion was not forged in the earthly elements of temples and rituals, but in the very person of Christ, made manifest in the flesh, bringing eternal reconciliation, putting away forever those material elements which merely foreshadowed His fulfillment and accomplishment in the incarnation.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]He presented himself to the temple on the same day the Pascal (Passover) lamb of sacrifice would be brought in and examined by the chief priests as to whether it was worthy and fitting for the task (being without spot or blemish). Not realizing it, they examined the true and final lamb of offering in the court of the temple when facing Jesus, "the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world," and despite finding no error in him, and being utterly silenced by his wisdom and authority, unable to truly judge him wanting, they nonetheless rejected him and proceeded to enact the final skullduggery which would result in his midnight arrest through the betrayal of his disciple Judas, the conviction in a kangaroo court of the Sanhedrin, and subsequent crucifixion at the hands of the Roman judiciary, which occupied Judea at that time.

[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Even Pontias Pilate, the appointed governor of the region, found no fault in Jesus and sent him back to the Jewish religious authorities, under King Herod (a Jewish puppet of the occupying Roman regency). In the end, the chief priests who conspired against Jesus resorted to the lowest level of psychological and political terrorism in order to force Pilate's hand, which he quickly washed publicly in a basin to proclaim that he had no blood on his hands in the matter of the death of Jesus of Nazareth. Pilate even went so far as to make use of a special appeasement to the people, as it was the time of the feast of Passover, and offered the people their choice between a convicted zealot insurrectionist, Barabbas, or Jesus, to be set free. The crowd, urged on by the ruling class of Jews, cried out for the crucifixion of Jesus, and the release of Barabbas. (Oddly enough, the name Barabbas means "son of the father" in Hebrew, and many have speculated that the Romans did not comprehend that the people were actually calling for Jesus, who called himself the 'Son of the Father' in his ministry).[/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]

Nonetheless, it was Jesus who was sentenced to the cross and Barabbas freed. And as was prophesied, and as He often told his followers, he would rise from the dead on the third day. Christ Himself was the true and final 'temple.' Even as His apostle to the gentiles, Paul, later declared to the Athenians, "God, that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made by human hands" (Acts 17:24). It is little understood that when Christ died, the great veil in the temple which enshrouded the Holy of Holies from sight was rent from top to bottom by an unseen force, thus revealing to the people both that access to God's grace was thrown wide open to all, and that the temple service which had been carried out by the Jews was a sham -- for the Ark was not present for the sacrifices and had not been for some time. This was another way of revealing that Christ was the substance/fulfillment of everything put forth symbolically according to the Law, including the Ark, which was itself a picture or type of Christ.

[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]It is only upon the true altar of God, through Christ, by his own blood, that God is satisfied with the final propitiation for sins. As scripture states, "...there remains no further sacrifice for sins."(Hebrews 10:26). Thus, the Ark of Covenant has no purpose and cannot serve God or any human being in any way, shape or form. [/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]

However, it CAN be used to deceive -- and that is exactly what is planned.[/SIZE]