3rd Temple coming soon..

[shturt678s]

Not so much other than to read them as we should. Both were writing to existent congregation(s) of that day. I think in 1 & 2 Thessalonians Paul is most definitely giving them the impression they should be ready. He said he had been telling them those things while he was with them.

One common response given is that Paul was not aware of when it would happen...that I cannot accept!

John's statements are flat out saying antichrist was existent, in spirit and person. The thing is John says how to identify all antichrists, making it clear there would be more than one.

Yet Jesus warned of many false Christ. John is consistent with our Lord.

My study shows Nero as the "man of sin". Nero's persecution is unrivaled by anyone and his persecution caused many to fall away.

Nero = / = "man of sin" My rendition: "...the man of the lawlessness,..." IIThess.2:3: The fact that this apostasy ("..first come the apostasy..") will occur in the Christian Church is beyond question; it would otherwise not be an "apostasy." The man of the lawlessness will be its head.

No Jewish apostasy, ie, the Jewish national rejection of Christ, and also of the Jewish political apostasy from Imperial Rome won't comport in the least.

This man does not merely "come" as does the apostasy. While he at first remains hidden, he at last gets "to be revealed." The apposition: "The son of the perdition"; perdition marks him from the start, and there is only one such perdition. This is exactly what Jesuscalled Judas in Jn.17:12; he, too, was an apostate in an eminent sense. The Antichrist is thus the antitype of Judas. IIThess.2:4 tells us more.

Now this idea of Herod's temple as the temple of 2 Thessaloninas really gives me pause because temple sacrifice is no longer efficacious to God...so what use is the temple? It isn't! The first century Christians are taught by Peter and Paul that THEY are the temple of God.

That is a huge point as I read scripture!

The 3rd "Temple" is actually the "Sancturary" that resides within each of us, eg, IIThess.2:4 - Not not not "Temple" ieron.

Jack

 

[ebedmelech]

Nero = / = "man of sin" My rendition: "...the man of the lawlessness,..." IIThess.2:3: The fact that this apostasy ("..first come the apostasy..") will occur in the Christian Church is beyond question; it would otherwise not be an "apostasy." The man of the lawlessness will be its head.

No Jewish apostasy, ie, the Jewish national rejection of Christ, and also of the Jewish political apostasy from Imperial Rome won't comport in the least.

This man does not merely "come" as does the apostasy. While he at first remains hidden, he at last gets "to be revealed." The apposition: "The son of the perdition"; perdition marks him from the start, and there is only one such perdition. This is exactly what Jesuscalled Judas in Jn.17:12; he, too, was an apostate in an eminent sense. The Antichrist is thus the antitype of Judas. IIThess.2:4 tells us more.



The 3rd "Temple" is actually the "Sancturary" that resides within each of us, eg, IIThess.2:4 - Not not not "Temple" ieron.

Jack

I'm hearing you Jack but the facts aren't bearing it out your way. Blue letter Bible breaks 2 Thess 2:4 down it calls out the word "naos"...also in Ephesians 2:21 the word is "naos", which is the actual temple building. It hold's it to be either/or. Link:
Greek Lexicon :: G3485 (NASB)

It does point it out as the saints being a metaphorical temple, a position I hold.

 

[Douggg]

Nero = / = "man of sin" My rendition: "...the man of the lawlessness,..." IIThess.2:3: The fact that this apostasy ("..first come the apostasy..") will occur in the Christian Church is beyond question; it would otherwise not be an "apostasy." The man of the lawlessness will be its head.

No Jewish apostasy, ie, the Jewish national rejection of Christ, and also of the Jewish political apostasy from Imperial Rome won't comport in the least.

This man does not merely "come" as does the apostasy. While he at first remains hidden, he at last gets "to be revealed." The apposition: "The son of the perdition"; perdition marks him from the start, and there is only one such perdition. This is exactly what Jesuscalled Judas in Jn.17:12; he, too, was an apostate in an eminent sense. The Antichrist is thus the antitype of Judas. IIThess.2:4 tells us more.



The 3rd "Temple" is actually the "Sancturary" that resides within each of us, eg, IIThess.2:4 - Not not not "Temple" ieron.

Jack

Hi Jack, what about this. After Gog/Magog, the little horn arrives in Jerusalem with his EU army, having intended to thwart the Gog/Magog invaders, but they attack so quickly he gets there late... and God destroys Gog/Magog supernaturally.

The Jews therefore believe that God has sent them their long awaited messiah, and has cleared the way for him. So they embrace the little horn as their messiah, and he has the ego to think of himself as being that person.

In Judaism, there has been a development religion called Noahidism for those persons who are not Jews, but their religion is monotheist just the same. If the Antichrist, false king messiah, started pushing Noahidism, and was convincing enough to some Christians that he is the true messiah and not Jesus - then could that not produce the great falling away, if the falling away were Christian apostasy?

 

[shturt678s]

I'm hearing you Jack but the facts aren't bearing it out your way. Blue letter Bible breaks 2 Thess 2:4 down it calls out the word "naos"...also in Ephesians 2:21 the word is "naos", which is the actual temple building. It hold's it to be either/or. Link:
Greek Lexicon :: G3485 (NASB)

IIThess.2:4 "Sanctuary," ie, not "Temple.

It does point it out as the saints being a metaphorical temple, a position I hold.

I forget the one 1900 or so Dictionary, ie, along with the older High-German works I had to render over long ago, that gave a valid interpretation of naos. All the rest of the Lexicons, Dictionaries, and even Commentaries are garbage, ie, sorry. "Temple" (ieron) includes the 4 courtyards, pillers, alter, staircase, and the center building, ie, the Holy of Holies and Holy Place (naos).

It was only until about 3 decades ago that I could understand Jn.2:19 "Sanctuary" and not the building (ieron "Temple" renditions that are inferior) that houses the "Sanctuary." How can I expect you folks to get this overnight?

Jack

 

[shturt678s]

Hi Jack, what about this. After Gog/Magog, the little horn arrives in Jerusalem with his EU army, having intended to thwart the Gog/Magog invaders, but they attack so quickly he gets there late... and God destroys Gog/Magog supernaturally.

The Jews therefore believe that God has sent them their long awaited messiah, and has cleared the way for him. So they embrace the little horn as their messiah, and he has the ego to think of himself as being that person.

In Judaism, there has been a development religion called Noahidism for those persons who are not Jews, but their religion is monotheist just the same. If the Antichrist, false king messiah, started pushing Noahidism, and was convincing enough to some Christians that he is the true messiah and not Jesus - then could that not produce the great falling away, if the falling away were Christian apostasy?

Let'e raise the bar, ie, no more difference between the Jews and Gentiles at Rom.11:25, 26 (and Rom.9:7) regarding their religious character generally speaking, ie, 70 A.D. God destroyed the Jews as a Nation, race (ethnic group). Israel now Bankster's made, 1948.

btw the 'Gog and Magog" of Ezekiel and John are all the forces of Sin and Carnality which seek to corrupt the Church and to slay her inner life, ie, like today, ie, one can have the agape of the world all week except for the 1.5 hours on Sunday. The main thing is the preacher's message is seductive in words and tone so the economics keep playing themselves out till one passes only too late to find out Jesus + "O" (not Jesus + world).

I want to find out ahead of time especially approaching 75,

Jack, don't like those forever surprises.

Guess we lost LOU, ie, he was more than an alright Christian in my view!

 

[ShedSinforChrist]

Here is an interesting picture from the R.L. Allen Oxford Clarendon Reference/Encyclopedic Concordance w/m (KJV)

The Temple Mt. is called the "Court of Gentiles". Sound familiar?

 

[yeshuasavedme]

70 A.D. God destroyed the Jews as a Nation, race (ethnic group). Israel now Bankster's made, 1948....

that is a bigoted, anti Bible, anti YHWH's prophecies, bunch of garbage, statement. That is something like Hitler's Nazi's would have said.

 

[kellhus]

that is a bigoted, anti Bible, anti YHWH;s prophecies, bunch of garbage statement.

But it's true. Rome destroyed Israel for it's rebellious attitude. The Israel of modern times is just another nation founded in the 1940's. The true Israel is the holy Church.

 

[ShedSinforChrist]

The Israel of modern times is just another nation founded in the 1940's. The true Israel is the holy Church.

Eze 38:7 Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them.

Eze 38:8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

Eze 38:19 For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;

Eze 38:20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.

 

[Interplanner]

Well, I can see where the Ezek 38 shaking is about Christ's presence on earth in the Gospel! But not everyone can see it.

Before you get too excited about modern Israel, you might want to read LAWRENCE IN ARABIA (a recent biography of T E Lawrence with letters and notes). There was quite a run up to obtain the resources of the middle east and get rid of the Ottomans, etc., and forming modern Israel was a plan since 1890 or so by Brithish venturists.

 

[ebedmelech]

Eze 38:7 Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them.

Eze 38:8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

Eze 38:19 For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;

Eze 38:20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.

What you have there is given light in Revelation 20:7-10
7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison
8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore.
9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

But it's true. Rome destroyed Israel for it's rebellious attitude. The Israel of modern times is just another nation founded in the 1940's. The true Israel is the holy Church.

The Word of God shows you to be telling false stories.

 

[kellhus]

The Word of God shows you to be telling false stories.

I'm going with no on that one.

 

[shturt678s]

Here is an interesting picture from the R.L. Allen Oxford Clarendon Reference/Encyclopedic Concordance w/m (KJV)

The Temple Mt. is called the "Court of Gentiles". Sound familiar?

The "Temple" contained two courtyards: Court of the Israelites, and the Court of the Gentiles. It also contained the Most Holy Place and Holy Place in Rev.11:1 which is the "Sanctuary," and not "Temple," where the "Sanctuary" is in the "Temple." Delete "Temple" at Rev.11:1 and merge "Sanctuary."

Nice pictorial, ie, thank you,

Old Jack

btw there are many many Jews since 70 A.D. that became true believers till today, and will continue to, till the end of time.

also btw we arre nearing the end of the 1,000 years with Satan's personal loosing soon.

 

[Interplanner]

Kellhus,
as further evidence of what you are saying about modern Israel, check the newly assembled biography of "Lawrence of Arabia" titled LAWRENCE IN ARABIA. As the Ottoman empire fell apart from 1890 onward, many attempts were made to carve up the region by other industrial countries interested in the resources. They wanted to start WW1 for about 30 years, to do so. The idea of a modern Israel was one useful piece in re-drawing the lines of the region. The new book is by S. Anderson.

 

[Interplanner]

Shtrt,
what in the world is the 'coming up on 1000 years of Satan's loosening' supposed to mean?

 

[riverrat]

Shtrt,
what in the world is the 'coming up on 1000 years of Satan's loosening' supposed to mean?

40 years wasted!

 

[L0U]

Now this idea of Herod's temple as the temple of 2 Thessaloninas really gives me pause because temple sacrifice is no longer efficacious to God...so what use is the temple? It isn't! The first century Christians are taught by Peter and Paul that THEY are the temple of God.

That is a huge point as I read scripture!

In your view, what temple (which is called by the angel "the temple of God") is being spoken of in Revelation 11?

Your pause is not a new thing:

"But it is uncertain in what temple he shall sit, whether in that ruin of the temple which was built by Solomon, or in the Church; for the apostle would not call the temple of any idol or demon the temple of God."
[Augustine- The City of God,Chapter 19.—What the Apostle Paul Wrote to the Thessalonians About the Manifestation of Antichrist Which Shall Precede the Day of the Lord.]

I believe your non-personal coming of anti-Christ is something new, that is, relative to 1800 years of Biblical exegesis.

The Didache (Teaching) Of The Twelve Apostles:

"For in the last days​

​

​

​

false prophets and corrupters shall be multiplied, and the sheep shall be turned into wolves, and love shall be turned into hate; for when lawlessness increaseth, they shall hate and persecute and betray one another, and then shall appear the world-deceiver as the Son of God, and shall do signs and wonders, and the earthshall be delivered into his hands, and he shall do iniquitous things which have never yet​

come to pass since the beginning."

 

[ebedmelech]

In your view, what temple (which is called by the angel "the temple of God") is being spoken of in Revelation 11?

This is not complicated LOU. The temple is being measured for God's judgment! The description tells us this is actually Herod's Temple because of how the description is given in Revelation 11:2:
2 Leave out the court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations; and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty-two months.

This brings to min what Jesus said in Luke 21:20-24:
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near.
21 Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city;
22 because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled.
23 Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people;
24 and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

You find the church as the temple in Revelation 11:15-19, as it shows Christ receiving the reign from God in verse 15:
15 Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever.”

You read that in another form back in Revelation 12:10!

Your pause is not a new thing:

"But it is uncertain in what temple he shall sit, whether in that ruin of the temple which was built by Solomon, or in the Church; for the apostle would not call the temple of any idol or demon the temple of God."
[Augustine- The City of God,Chapter 19.—What the Apostle Paul Wrote to the Thessalonians About the Manifestation of Antichrist Which Shall Precede the Day of the Lord.

Augustine was a great of the church fathers, but that doesn't make him correct. We all strive (just as they did), to understand eschatology. Even in his statement you see uncertainty.

I believe your non-personal coming of anti-Christ is something new, that is, relative to 1800 years of Biblical exegesis.

The Didache (Teaching) Of The Twelve Apostles:

"For in the last days​

​

​

​

false prophets and corrupters shall be multiplied, and the sheep shall be turned into wolves, and love shall be turned into hate; for when lawlessness increaseth, they shall hate and persecute and betray one another, and then shall appear the world-deceiver as the Son of God, and shall do signs and wonders, and the earthshall be delivered into his hands, and he shall do iniquitous things which have never yet​

come to pass since the beginning."

I think not LOU what I believe of antichrist is right there in scripture, I don't need a church father or historical viewpoints when the scripture tells me plainly that antichrist was already active among them as they wrote.

This is why I don't hold to one eschatological position because there can be insight in all, but we have to search the scriptures also! In my early Christian life I held to what I was taught but I can remember even questioning my pastor's view that there would be "AN antchrist" when right there in scripture Christ says there will be many and John said antichrist was already in the world.

 

[shturt678s]

Shtrt,
what in the world is the 'coming up on 1000 years of Satan's loosening' supposed to mean?

The work of the Gospel, and the other side of the Gospel, Ie, Rom.1:18, among the nations must have been done completely (Matt.24:14), ie, and the last convert comes in, then Satan personally loosed to quickly bring in the end - right around the next corner.

Remember the 1,000 began at the Cross.

Jack