3rd Temple coming soon..

[yeshuasavedme]

in Hebrew it is "Yĕhowshuwa`"

The English rendering of the name of the son of Nun -before Moses changed it, is "Salvation".

Num 13:16 These are the names of the men which Moses sent to spy out the land. And Moses called Oshea the son of Nun Jehoshua.

הוֹשֵׁעַ Howshea -Numbers 13:16: Salvation was the name given to the son of Nun.
Moses changed his name to "Yah is salvation"


Ezra 2:2 has the Hebrew name, Yeshua [the English uses "J" for the yod, but the Hebrew is "Y"

Ezr 2:2 Which came with Zerubbabel: Jeshua, Nehemiah, Seraiah, Reelaiah, Mordecai, Bilshan, Mispar, Bigvai, Rehum, Baanah. The number of the men of the people of Israel:
Rom 9:25
As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.


Hosea or Hoshea or Oshea = "salvation"
family name of Joshua, the son of Nun

The prophet Hosea serves as a type of Christ, with the wife who left and played the harlot, whom "Salvation" bought back, fed, and housed for many days; but she did not know him as "Ishyah/Husband, intimately; but Hosea says she will call Him "My Ish/Husband, and YAH will call her "My "Ishyah/Wife". This speaks of the love of God for His namesake people, His "Wife", Israel, the seed of Jacob.

14 Therefore, behold, I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak comfortably unto her.
15 And I will give her her vineyards from thence, and the valley of Achor for a door of hope: and she shall sing there, as in the days of her youth, and as in the day when she came up out of the land of Egypt.
16 And it shall be at that day, saith the Lord, that thou shalt call me Ishi; and shalt call me no more Baali.
17 For I will take away the names of Baalim out of her mouth, and they shall no more be remembered by their name.
18 And in that day will I make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field and with the fowls of heaven, and with the creeping things of the ground: and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle out of the earth, and will make them to lie down safely.
19 And I will betroth thee unto me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies.
20 I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the Lord.
21 And it shall come to pass in that day, I will hear, saith the Lord, I will hear the heavens, and they shall hear the earth;
22 And the earth shall hear the corn, and the wine, and the oil; and they shall hear Jezreel.
23 And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God.

Hebrew Matthew: Yeshua is His name, in Hebrew, given by the angel to
Joseph in a dream:
HNV:
Mat 1:21 She shall bring forth a son. You shall call his name Yeshua, for it is he who shall save his people from their sins."
Mat 1:24 Yosef arose from his sleep, and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took his wife to himself;
Mat 1:25 and didn't know her sexually until she had brought forth her firstborn son. He named him Yeshua.

http://www.makorhebrew.org/hebrew_matthew_poster.shtml
A full-color photographic reproduction of the British Library manuscript of Hebrew Matthew is now available for the first time. The 24" x 18" print contains Hebrew Matthew 1:18-25 as preserved by Jewish scribes down through the Middle Ages. This poster is perfect for hanging in a prominent place in your home with or without a frame and provides an ideal opportunity to educate friends and family about the Hebrew version of the Gospel of Matthew.
The poster contains the story of the naming of Yeshua as told in Matthew 1:18-25. The original form of Jesus' Hebrew name, "Yeshua", is easily identifiable on the poster even for those not familiar with old Hebrew writing. The last word on the bottom left of the miniature image above is the name of Yeshua written in medieval Hebrew script. The Jewish scribe who copied Hebrew Matthew wrote the name Yeshua in large letters in recognition of its importance in the context of the story of the naming. The name Yeshua was written without vowels points as was common in most ancient manuscripts. As a result the name Yeshua is written as YSHW'. The W (vav) marks the vowel U and the last letter is an ayin which has no exact parallel in English. Of course, Hebrew is written from right to left. The following is a breakdown of the name Yeshua as it appears in the photographic reproduction of the British Library manuscript (you may need Hebrew fonts to view the second line correctly):

ע ו ש י ' W SH Y

 

[yeshuasavedme]

..

Fun fact that really contributes nothing to the conversation lol.

Cheers

You need more research in the language of the Hebrews to get to the facts of the matter; and the facts are not discovered within the many changes men have made in translations, from translations, and from translations... not based on original manuscripts.

See my last post.

 

[ebedmelech]

The English rendering of the name of the son of Nun -before Moses changed it, is "Salvation".

Num 13:16 These are the names of the men which Moses sent to spy out the land. And Moses called Oshea the son of Nun Jehoshua.

הוֹשֵׁעַ Howshea -Numbers 13:16: Salvation was the name given to the son of Nun.
Moses changed his name to "Yah is salvation"


Ezra 2:2 has the Hebrew name, Yeshua [the English uses "J" for the yod, but the Hebrew is "Y"

Ezr 2:2 Which came with Zerubbabel: Jeshua, Nehemiah, Seraiah, Reelaiah, Mordecai, Bilshan, Mispar, Bigvai, Rehum, Baanah. The number of the men of the people of Israel:
Rom 9:25
As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.


Hosea or Hoshea or Oshea = "salvation"
family name of Joshua, the son of Nun

The prophet Hosea serves as a type of Christ, with the wife who left and played the harlot, whom "Salvation" bought back, fed, and housed for many days; but she did not know him as "Ishyah/Husband, intimately; but Hosea says she will call Him "My Ish/Husband, and YAH will call her "My "Ishyah/Wife". This speaks of the love of God for His namesake people, His "Wife", Israel, the seed of Jacob.

14 Therefore, behold, I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak comfortably unto her.
15 And I will give her her vineyards from thence, and the valley of Achor for a door of hope: and she shall sing there, as in the days of her youth, and as in the day when she came up out of the land of Egypt.
16 And it shall be at that day, saith the Lord, that thou shalt call me Ishi; and shalt call me no more Baali.
17 For I will take away the names of Baalim out of her mouth, and they shall no more be remembered by their name.
18 And in that day will I make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field and with the fowls of heaven, and with the creeping things of the ground: and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle out of the earth, and will make them to lie down safely.
19 And I will betroth thee unto me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies.
20 I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the Lord.
21 And it shall come to pass in that day, I will hear, saith the Lord, I will hear the heavens, and they shall hear the earth;
22 And the earth shall hear the corn, and the wine, and the oil; and they shall hear Jezreel.
23 And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God.

Hebrew Matthew: Yeshua is His name, in Hebrew, given by the angel to
Joseph in a dream:
HNV:
Mat 1:21 She shall bring forth a son. You shall call his name Yeshua, for it is he who shall save his people from their sins."
Mat 1:24 Yosef arose from his sleep, and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took his wife to himself;
Mat 1:25 and didn't know her sexually until she had brought forth her firstborn son. He named him Yeshua.

Yeshuasavedme, you're on a fruitless expedition to "save face" at this point. Nothing you have here is significant. Can you give anyone of repute that holds to what you're saying here? This is stuff that skeptics of the scriptures would take to the "nth degree" if there was any validity to what you're saying...but there is silence. You know why? Because it's quite insignificant!

You cannot make your point this way! Are you aware the number of experts in transliteration of languages there are?

You're not making a point at all! For instance Christians that study with minor intensity will know that YHWH is transliterated! They know the English translation "Jehovah" adds the vowles for Engilsh pronounciation. This is how transliteration is done. It's on the basis of "language equivalence".

You really are not making a point at all. Go back and look at what you provide as "evidence" because it is not evidence. Start with Numbers 13:16 and think about it. That your resource provides how this passage is actually written should tell you something. At the bottom, it gives you the actual way it's written in the manuscripts:

13:16 ταῦτα τὰ ὀνόματα τῶν ἀνδρῶν οὓς ἀπέστειλεν Μωυσῆς κατασκέψασθαι τὴν γῆν καὶ ἐπωνόμασεν Μωυσῆς τὸν Αυση υἱὸν Ναυη Ἰησοῦν

That is exactly how the manuscript renders the passage. What's your point?...because you're going in circles.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

...
You're not making a point at all! For instance Christians that study with minor intensity will know that YHWH is transliterated! They know the English translation "Jehovah" adds the vowles for Engilsh pronounciation. This is how transliteration is done. It's on the basis of "language equivalence"....

You are in error on that also.
YHWH is not transliterated, but is exactly what the Bible states. The Yod, Hey, Vav, Hey =YHWH.
English, however, uses a made up non-existent combination of the YHWH and Adonai, so we are told, made up in the middle ages.
So what is your point?
You are the one who is trying to ignore the totally Biblical fact that the name of Christ come in flesh is "Israel". "Israel" is His name as second Man.
His New Creation human being flesh body was prepared in the womb of the virgin for His donning -just like one dons a garment, and that is exactly what the body of flesh is called which was prepared for YHWH [in the Person of God the Word], to put on, in Isaiah 59: He wears the Garment of "Salvation".
You ignore every point that I gave Scripture for in that the body of flesh Christ is come in is named Israel, and was the name of God invoked over Jacob, who named the memorial [to His name] altar, El-Elohe- Israel/"God, the Mighty God, Israel".

As the second "Ish" He is God come as the powerful prince who will rule the dominion which the first, firstborn human being son of God, Adam, lost in the death of his spirit and fall; when corruption got the dominion of the kingdom.

He is Yah! come in a flesh garment named Israel, and brother to the dead brother, Adam, so as to "marry the barren Widow" and buy back the kingdom and the lost seed of the Adam who are all written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, and who were all sold into corruption while yet in the loins of their first father, Adam, and fell in him.
He came in that flesh body named ISrael to bring many sons "To Glory".
He adopts the sons of Adam into His own One Living Spirit, and into His second creation human being flesh.
We await the adoption body, and that body is named "Israel", not "Adam", which our flesh body of this creation is now named, in the Word of God.




The Hebrew word for redeemer, "ga'al", is the same word for kinsman, and in Isaiah 59, YAH is come in the garment of Salvation as the "Ish", a New Man, and the Kinsman/Redeemer to the Adam race; and the story of that Ransom was given to the namesake people of the New Man name to rehearse until the last jot and tittle of the entire Torah is totally fulfilled.
You do not even know what the jots and tittles are, for you have cast away the foundation and have no understanding given by that Schoolmaster, the
Living Oracles, and go about as self anointed a teacher to the Church; but you have no authority to teach in the Church of Christ because you do not even know the basic principle's of the Torah/ the Living Oracles, and have cast away the foundation.

Hbr 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.


The entire Gospel story from Genesis to Revelation -and as it was first laid down in Enoch, before Moses ever wrote Torah- seems to be totally not even glimpsed by you with any understanding, and your gospel is a perverted story with no foundation in Genesis and no continuing into Revelation -and into the climax of the ages.

 

[L0U]

There is no prophecy about antichrist...it's total "eschatological fabrication" John told us in 1 John 4 and 2 John 1 that spirit of antichrist, as well as antichrist was already in the world!

If W.E. Vine's dictionary and testimony of 1800 years of church history does not show you otherwise what can I say?

Accept maybe the question;
Where or by whom, in recorded Scriptures could John's audience had heard that the antichrist would come?

 

[ebedmelech]

You are in error on that also.
YHWH is not transliterated, but is exactly what the Bible states. The Yod, Hey, Vav, Hey =YHWH.
English, however, uses a made up non-existent combination of the YHWH and Adonai, so we are told, made up in the middle ages.
So what is your point?
You are the one who is trying to ignore the totally Biblical fact that the name of Christ come in flesh is "Israel". "Israel" is His name as second Man.
His New Creation human being flesh body was prepared in the womb of the virgin for His donning -just like one dons a garment, and that is exactly what the body of flesh is called which was prepared for YHWH [in the Person of God the Word], to put on, in Isaiah 59: He wears the Garment of "Salvation".
You ignore every point that I gave Scripture for in that the body of flesh Christ is come in is named Israel, and was the name of God invoked over Jacob, who named the memorial [to His name] altar, El-Elohe- Israel/"God, the Mighty God, Israel".

As the second "Ish" He is God come as the powerful prince who will rule the dominion which the first, firstborn human being son of God, Adam, lost in the death of his spirit and fall; when corruption got the dominion of the kingdom.

He is Yah! come in a flesh garment named Israel, and brother to the dead brother, Adam, so as to "marry the barren Widow" and buy back the kingdom and the lost seed of the Adam who are all written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, and who were all sold into corruption while yet in the loins of their first father, Adam, and fell in him.
He came in that flesh body named ISrael to bring many sons "To Glory".
He adopts the sons of Adam into His own One Living Spirit, and into His second creation human being flesh.
We await the adoption body, and that body is named "Israel", not "Adam", which our flesh body of this creation is now named, in the Word of God.




The Hebrew word for redeemer, "ga'al", is the same word for kinsman, and in Isaiah 59, YAH is come in the garment of Salvation as the "Ish", a New Man, and the Kinsman/Redeemer to the Adam race; and the story of that Ransom was given to the namesake people of the New Man name to rehearse until the last jot and tittle of the entire Torah is totally fulfilled.
You do not even know what the jots and tittles are, for you have cast away the foundation and have no understanding given by that Schoolmaster, the
Living Oracles, and go about as self anointed a teacher to the Church; but you have no authority to teach in the Church of Christ because you do not even know the basic principle's of the Torah/ the Living Oracles, and have cast away the foundation.

Hbr 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.


The entire Gospel story from Genesis to Revelation -and as it was first laid down in Enoch, before Moses ever wrote Torah- seems to be totally not even glimpsed by you with any understanding, and your gospel is a perverted story with no foundation in Genesis and no continuing into Revelation -and into the climax of the ages.

Once again your argument is baseless. The KJV stood for Years as the most popular English bible.

I would think you to be ignorant of the facts based on what you're saying OR you would know when the KJV translated LORD (all caps)...the word is "Jehovah". The transliteration is from "YHWH" to "Jehovah" Check that out via this link from Blue Letter Bible search of the KJV on the word LORD (all caps).
KJV Search Results for "LORD"

You're painting yourself more and more in that corner yeshuasavedme. Furthermore NO translation says the name of Christ is Israel...NONE!

The modern translations do the same for the most part except the "Complete Jewish Bible" a translation I favor because it renders the true Name of God or Jesus in every case (excep they also translate YHWH as "LORD"). This is an example of the Complete Jewish Bible using Joshua in your Numbers 13:16 example:
16 These are the names of the men Moshe sent out to reconnoiter the land. Moshe gave to Hoshea the son of Nun the name Y’hoshua.

Notice it uses the actual Hebrew using English letters. Are you noticing it properly says Moses (Moshe), gave Hoshea the name Y'hoshua (Joshua).

What you're doing, is following a erroneous teaching you have received, or that you've come to believe. By it's very nature the name Israel cannot be applied to Christ! It was given to Jacob because he wrestled with the Lord. It was the Lord that gave him the name. When did the Lord Jesus EVER strive with God? Jesus himself said " “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me and to accomplish His work." (John 4:34). That's not the name for one who wrestles with God, which is the main reason you're incorrect.

Provide ANYTHING in scripture that says Jesus is "Israel" OR this is serious error on your part.

I will also leave you with a Hebrew site I frequent called "Hebrew for Christians". and their section on "Names for God" you will find "Israel" appears no where:
Hebrew for Christians - The Hebrew Names for God

You're faced with truth yeshuasavedme! You're simply resisting and will not accept that Israel is the name given to Jacob, from whom are twelve sons, from whom are the twelve tribes, and from whom the nation comes into being.

While we're doing this I may as well go ahead and correct you on something you said to me long ago:

You stated I wanted to exclude the Jews (Israel) as Gods people, a conclusion you gathered from one of my post. Nothing could be further from the truth of me from a spiritual as well as a life perspective. You have no idea ho helpful Jewish people have been to me in my life, even before I became a Christian.

Only a misguided person or group (such as "Christian Identity), could draw such a conclusion of Jews.

God covenanted with Abraham to bless all nations of the earth from His seed (descendants). We know that SEED to be Christ from Galatians 3:15-18. When Jesus spoke to "the woman at the well" he told here in John 4:22 "salvation is of the Jews".

I know that I have salvation because of the "Abrahamic Covenant" so I could never be hateful of Jews...Jesus came through them for the world, and they are no different than we Christians in that just as they fell short of obeying God, we Christians equally fall short. The only difference is we're under the New Covenant, that Jesus made.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

...The KJV stood for Years as the most popular English bible...

I.

So?

What the KJV is, is of no consequence to what the Word of God says in the original language.

16 These are the names of the men Moshe sent out to reconnoiter the land. Moshe gave to Hoshea the son of Nun the name Y’hoshua.

So? I used that information not a few times, but you seem to be not reading what I post. I think, sometimes, that you are running a one man show and do not read the posts to you which refute you, becaue you certainly do not answer them, and the answers you give are out of context, anyway.

If you had read what I posted, you would have read that the name Howshea/Hosea/Osea was given to the son of Nun by his father, which means Salvation. Moses changed his name to Yah is salvation.
I wrote that, and I wrote that.
You do not read.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

So?

What the KJV is, is of no consequence to what the Word of God says in the original language.


...

If you had read what I posted, you would have read that the name Howshea/Hosea/Osea was given to the son of Nun by his father, which means Salvation. Moses changed his name to Yah is salvation.
I wrote that, and I wrote that.
You do not read.

What Ebed does not read that nullifies his argument -before KJV, there was the Gospel of Matthew in Hebrew, preserved through the ages, with the name Yeshua for the Savior:

Hebrew Matthew Poster


A full-color photographic reproduction of the British Library manuscript of Hebrew Matthew is now available for the first time. The 24" x 18" print contains Hebrew Matthew 1:18-25 as preserved by Jewish scribes down through the Middle Ages.

This poster is perfect for hanging in a prominent place in your home with or without a frame and provides an ideal opportunity to educate friends and family about the Hebrew version of the Gospel of Matthew.
The poster contains the story of the naming of Yeshua as told in

Matthew 1:18-25. The original form of Jesus' Hebrew name, "Yeshua", is easily identifiable on the poster even for those not familiar with old Hebrew writing. The last word on the bottom left of the miniature image above is the name of Yeshua written in medieval Hebrew script. The Jewish scribe who copied Hebrew Matthew wrote the name Yeshua in large letters in recognition of its importance in the context of the story of the naming.

The name Yeshua was written without vowels points as was common in most ancient manuscripts. As a result the name Yeshua is written as YSHW'. The W (vav) marks the vowel U and the last letter is an ayin which has no exact parallel in English. Of course, Hebrew is written from right to left. The following is a breakdown of the name Yeshua as it appears in the photographic reproduction of the British Library manuscript (you may need Hebrew fonts to view the second line correctly):

ע ו ש י ' W SH Y

 

[ebedmelech]

What Ebed does not read that nullifies his argument -before KJV, there was the Gospel of Matthew in Hebrew, preserved through the ages, with the name Yeshua for the Savior:

I read what you posted...the question is did you read it.

Secondly Moses gave Joshua his name...kinda take your own advice and read what you post.

Now...it's obvious you will hold to what you think...so what's the point?
You haven't refuted a thing...but you like to keep saying the same thing. Much of what you posted refuted your own argument.

Perhaps you should go back and read it.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

I read what you posted...the question is did you read it.

Secondly Moses gave Joshua his name...kinda take your own advice and read what you post.

So Moses gave Joshua the name YAH is salvation? -So what does htat have to do with the fact that his daddy, Nun, named him "Salvation", and not "Yah is Salvation"?

Neither did the angel tell Joseph to call the Savior Yah is Salvation, but "Salvation" is His name, in Englsh, and "Yeshua" in Hebrew.

You have been all over the board trying to do away with the facts of the Hebrew name of Messiah being "Yeshua/Salvation", and in total blind denial of the fact that the Father called His name "Israel", and that YAH invoked that name over Jacob, and ever after, Jacob's seed are called by the name of God who was to come in flesh, and is come in flesh.

His New Man Name is "Israel", and He is "Salvation/Ysshua", and you are blind willingly because you have an agenda -and it is not biblical scholarship nor Truth of the Word of God.

 

[ebedmelech]

If W.E. Vine's dictionary and testimony of 1800 years of church history does not show you otherwise what can I say?

Accept maybe the question;
Where or by whom, in recorded Scriptures could John's audience had heard that the antichrist would come?

Church history is just that, story of what the church has done and believed LOU. Being the church us made up of imperfect people yet to be made perfect, you and I know there has been much error in what the church thought and believed.

I use Vine's quite often, and I know he includes historical views to help define...but it doesn't take a position.

When it comes to antichrist 1 John 4:2, 3 makes it clear:
2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;
3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.

Also 2 John 1:7:
7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.

 

[ebedmelech]

So Moses gave Joshua the name YAH is salvation? -So what does htat have to do with the fact that his daddy, Nun, named him "Salvation", and not "Yah is Salvation"?

Exactly. I asked you do you read what you post? You gave Numbers 13:16, so read it slowly:
These are the names of the men whom Moses sent to spy out the land; but Moses called Hoshea the son of Nun, Joshua.

It's telling in you spite of his name being Hoshea, Moses called him Joshua!

Neither did the angel tell Joseph to call the Savior Yah is Salvation, but "Salvation" is His name, in Englsh, and "Yeshua" in Hebrew.

Like I said...you don;t read what you post OR you just want to be right. It was you who used Blue Letter Bible as the resource...but now that you don't like that it doesn't agree with you...it doesn't matter....

You have been all over the board trying to do away with the facts of the Hebrew name of Messiah being "Yeshua/Salvation", and in total blind denial of the fact that the Father called His name "Israel", and that YAH invoked that name over Jacob, and ever after, Jacob's seed are called by the name of God who was to come in flesh, and is come in flesh.

You really should look in the mirror, because that applies to you...and you have yet to provide ONE example of Jesus being Israel...I wonder why?

His New Man Name is "Israel", and He is "Salvation/Ysshua", and you are blind willingly because you have an agenda -and it is not biblical scholarship nor Truth of the Word of God.

Like I said...you're pretty weak. Jesus did not have to be made into a new man...He was sinless!!! Do your scripture search on the term "new man" and you will find it once...and it applies to Jews/and Gentiles who have been redeemed by Jesus. The passage is Ephesians 2:15:
15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace,

It says Jesus makes us into "one new man"....

 

[Interplanner]

well, Jesus was the fulfillment of everything Israel was supposed to be; a light to the nations, the faithful servant, etc. So you could say he was the Israel God never got out of the ethnos.

"In Christ, God fulfilled all his promises to Israel; and in Christ, Israel kept all its covenant obligations to God. " --R. Brinsmead, the Australian Forum

 

[ebedmelech]

well, Jesus was the fulfillment of everything Israel was supposed to be; a light to the nations, the faithful servant, etc. So you could say he was the Israel God never got out of the ethnos.

"In Christ, God fulfilled all his promises to Israel; and in Christ, Israel kept all its covenant obligations to God. " --R. Brinsmead, the Australian Forum

Actualiy Inter that's not well stated. What Jesus did was fulfill the Old Covenant God had with Israel. In doing so when He died the Old Covenant ended. Hebrews 8:17 makes the point:
16 For where a covenant is, there must of necessity be the death of the one who made it.

The issue here is that Jesus is never called Israel in scripture. Yeshuasavedme is out on a limb that she won't come back down from...despite the facts!

 

[Interplanner]

"Out of Egypt, I called my son" (Mt 2). Sounds like a new and fulfilled Israel. Does the word Israel have to be there?

Actually I thought this is what most of Is 53 is about. It sounds like it is about Israel, but it is about a representative, Christ...

 

[ebedmelech]

"Out of Egypt, I called my son" (Mt 2). Sounds like a new and fulfilled Israel. Does the word Israel have to be there?

Actually I thought this is what most of Is 53 is about. It sounds like it is about Israel, but it is about a representative, Christ...

That would be Hosea 11. I'm not in disagreement with anything but the idea that Christ is Israel. The focus is on the obedience that Israel did not have. This is more about demonstrating Christ's perfect obedience to God. So Christ is doing what Israel did not do. It is a witness against them that they could not see.

Note the wording...God is calling His Son out of Israel because Jesus comes through them. A comparison would be Hebrews stating that Levi paid tithes in Abraham when Abraham gave tithes to Melchizedek. God call Jesus out Egypt in that fashion because He comes forth through them. It is done by proxy.

 

[L0U]

I use Vine's quite often, and I know he includes historical views to help define...but it doesn't take a position.

"Topics: ANTICHRIST
Strong's Number: 500
Transliterated: antichristos
Text: can mean either "against Christ" or "instead of Christ," or perhaps, combining the two, "one who, assuming the guise of Christ, opposes Christ" (Westcott). The word is found only in John's epistles, (a) of the many "antichrists" who are forerunners of the "Antichrist" himself, 1 John 2:18, 22; 2 John 7; (b) of the evil power which already operates anticipatively of the "Antichrist," 1 John 4:3.\ What the apostle says of him so closely resembles what he says of the first beast in Rev. 13, and what the apostle Paul says of the Man of Sin in 2 Thess. 2, that the same person seems to be in view in all these passages, rather than the second beast in Rev. 13, the false prophet; for the latter supports the former in all his Antichristian assumptions. Note: The term pseudochristos, "a false Christ," is to be distinguished from the above; it is found in Matt. 24:24 and Mark 13:22. The false Christ does not deny the existence of Christ, he trades upon the expectation of His appearance, affirming that he is the Christ. The Antichrist denies the existence of the true God (Trench, Syn. XXX).\ "
(W.E. Vine)

When it comes to antichrist 1 John 4:2, 3 makes it clear:
2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;
3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.

Also 2 John 1:7:
7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.

Where did they hear it was coming?

 

[ebedmelech]

"Topics: ANTICHRIST
Strong's Number: 500
Transliterated: antichristos
Text: can mean either "against Christ" or "instead of Christ," or perhaps, combining the two, "one who, assuming the guise of Christ, opposes Christ" (Westcott). The word is found only in John's epistles, (a) of the many "antichrists" who are forerunners of the "Antichrist" himself, 1 John 2:18, 22; 2 John 7; (b) of the evil power which already operates anticipatively of the "Antichrist," 1 John 4:3.\ What the apostle says of him so closely resembles what he says of the first beast in Rev. 13, and what the apostle Paul says of the Man of Sin in 2 Thess. 2, that the same person seems to be in view in all these passages, rather than the second beast in Rev. 13, the false prophet; for the latter supports the former in all his Antichristian assumptions. Note: The term pseudochristos, "a false Christ," is to be distinguished from the above; it is found in Matt. 24:24 and Mark 13:22. The false Christ does not deny the existence of Christ, he trades upon the expectation of His appearance, affirming that he is the Christ. The Antichrist denies the existence of the true God (Trench, Syn. XXX).\ "
(W.E. Vine)




Where did they hear it was coming?

What's your point LOU? That's what I said Vines does! I said he will use historical viewpoints to help in the definition without taking a position. That's what he does there...notice the words "resembles" and "seems".

The church heard it from the apostles...in this case when they received John's letter! This is the active apostolic era and Paul, Peter, and John have taught these things.

You read John's epistles based on who he wrote it to. 1 John is most like circular and went out to several churches because he doesn't address it to anyone in particular, while 2 John is written to *most likely* a church, which he calls "the elect lady".

 

[L0U]

The church heard it from the apostles...in this case when they received John's letter! This is the active apostolic era and Paul, Peter, and John have taught these things.

Do you think that Paul may have written about the coming antichrist, to wit, that
"mystery of iniquity" that was already working (i.e. John; "already in the world"):"whose coming (i.e., John; "ye have heard that antichrist shall come")is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,".....

Have you ever connected the two?

I believe there are only two subjects that John's readers would have been looking for as 'coming', and as a matter of Biblical record they are the 'man of sin' and the Lord Jesus Christ.
The son of perdition and the Son of God.
The teaching of the coming anti-Christ is also seen as being held to among the earliest of Christian documents.

 

[ebedmelech]

Do you think that Paul may have written about the coming antichrist, to wit, that
"mystery of iniquity" that was already working (i.e. John; "already in the world"):"whose coming (i.e., John; "ye have heard that antichrist shall come")is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,".....

Have you ever connected the two?

Not so much other than to read them as we should. Both were writing to existent congregation(s) of that day. I think in 1 & 2 Thessalonians Paul is most definitely giving them the impression they should be ready. He said he had been telling them those things while he was with them.

One common response given is that Paul was not aware of when it would happen...that I cannot accept!

John's statements are flat out saying antichrist was existent, in spirit and person. The thing is John says how to identify all antichrists, making it clear there would be more than one.

I believe there are only two subjects that John's readers would have been looking for as 'coming', and as a matter of Biblical record they are the 'man of sin' and the Lord Jesus Christ. The son of perdition and the Son of God. The teaching of the coming anti-Christ is also seen as being held to among the earliest of Christian documents.

Yet Jesus warned of many false Christ. John is consistent with our Lord.

My study shows Nero as the "man of sin". Nero's persecution is unrivaled by anyone and his persecution caused many to fall away.

Now this idea of Herod's temple as the temple of 2 Thessaloninas really gives me pause because temple sacrifice is no longer efficacious to God...so what use is the temple? It isn't! The first century Christians are taught by Peter and Paul that THEY are the temple of God.

That is a huge point as I read scripture!