3rd Temple coming soon..

[shturt678s]

With all your highfalutin language, I am not sure I understand. Please, in good, basic, plain spoken, no nonsense, matter of fact, straightforward English (down to earth), are you saying that this "temple" John was to measure in Rev. 11, and that the man of sin was to enter in 2 Thes., is meant to be a "brick and mortar" building?

Lamad

Always appreciate you, ie, you always keep me in my place - humble-pie, grass roots Jack,

Have to do my morning walk, ie, use to jog with you, but heart won't take it, will get back with you if heart doesn't stop before. lol and no lol

 

[ebedmelech]

What? They didn't have the very same scripture that you have today?
But we're so modern that we have to know more than they did back then?
I'm sorry, I just can't wrap my mind around this type of modern intellectualism. Evil men and seducers are said to grow worse and worse, decieving and being decieved.
But you did need the recorded church historical viewpoints to show you that you statement that, "There is no prophecy about antichrist...it's total "eschatological fabrication", may have to be researched again.

Which I clearly showed what I was responding to when I said that.

I hear ya.
It was studying the early church that pulled me from dispensational premillenial pre-tribulationalism.
I wanted to hear directly from those who wrote the New Testament but the closest I could get (other than what they wrote in the Bible) was the ones who learned from them and their students and what is being taught today is NOT what was being taught then.

Irenaeus laid it out plainly:

"Against Heresies: Book III
Chapter IV.—The truth is to be found nowhere else but in the Catholic Church, the sole depository of apostolical doctrine. Heresies are of recent formation, and cannot trace their origin up to the apostles.

"Since therefore we have such proofs, it is not necessary to seek the truth among others which it is easy to obtain from the Church; since the apostles, like a rich man [depositing his money] in a bank, lodged in her hands most copiously all things pertaining to the truth: so that every man, whosoever will, can draw from her the water of life. For she is the entrance to life; all others are thieves and robbers. On this account are we bound to avoid them, but to make choice of the thing pertaining to the Church with the utmost diligence, and to lay hold of the tradition of the truth. For how stands the case? Suppose there arise a dispute relative to some important question among us, should we not have recourse to
the most ancient Churches with which the apostles held constant intercourse, and learn from them what is certain and clear in regard to the present question? For how should it be if the apostles themselves had not left us writings? Would it not be necessary, [in that case,]
to follow the course of the tradition which they handed down to those to whom they did commit the Churches?"

This is the only recoarse that I have to lean on. I do not know the mind of God that I can instruct Him to do only that which I understand. None do.

It's going to take a very heavy hand from God to move me from the coarse that I believe He has set my feet on.

Merry Christmas!

Merry Christmas LOU!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by shturt678s

Let's move to Jn.2:20, "The Jews, accordingly, said, Forty and six years was this Sanctuary built (not "Temple") built, and wilt thou raise it up in three days?" The Jewish Temple was origninally built by Solomon and was destroyed by Neb. of course. It was rebuilt on the ruined site by Neh. and Ez. of course. Then the rebuilding by Herod.

The Jews, of course, did not grasp what Jesus meant, but their misunderstanding did not lie in applying His words to the Sanctuary (naos), as though Jesus had not referred to that building (naos in the ieron), ie, including the Sanctuary (naos) in that building.

Their error lay in appying Jesus' words to this building exclusively (naos within the ieron) exclusively. Their unbelief saw only this building (naos with the ieron) and nothing of its true signifciance and higher connection.

Now the Sanctuary (naos - only the structure within the Temple), the house in which God dwelt among Israel, was the type of the body of Jesus in which the Godhead dwelt and tented among men, Jn.1:14. The Sanctuary (naos) and Jesus thus belong insolubly together, the one is the shadow of the other. This is what the key to the mashal conveys.

Once one makes ieron (Temple) with all the courtyards, pillers, altar, staircase, doors, and etc. with the naos "Sanctuary" (Holy Place and Most Holy Place) structure also within = "Sanctuary" the whole mashal is lost including the true interpretation of Rev.11:1 for those that get through the Trumpets of delusions that most could care less? Let alone IIThess.2:4 "Sanctuary."

Jack
​

With all your highfalutin language, I am not sure I understand. Please, in good, basic, plain spoken, no nonsense, matter of fact, straightforward English (down to earth), are you saying that this "temple" John was to measure in Rev. 11, and that the man of sin was to enter in 2 Thes., is meant to be a "brick and mortar" building?

Lamad

Always appreciate you, ie, you always keep me in my place - humble-pie, grass roots Jack,

Have to do my morning walk, ie, use to jog with you, but heart won't take it, will get back with you if heart doesn't stop before. lol and no lol

If ya need CPR, just call me



.

 

[ShedSinforChrist]

Indeed they are connected. Do your search on Gog and Magog and see what you find.

I would ask you to read Ezekiel 38, and then read Revelation 19:17 - 20:10.
Gog and Magog are typical of the unbelieveing world.

Im not awful concerned with Revelation at this point, we can identify Gog/Magog without Revelation, as Ezekiel existed before Revelation was written. All of the places mentioned in Ezekiel would have been well known in his time.

Eze 38:2 Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,

Eze 38:6 Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.

Gog was the son of Joel -1Ch5:4
Magog was the son of Japheth. -Gen10:2/1Ch1:5
Tubal was the son of Japheth -Gen10:2/1Ch1:5
Meshech was the son of Japheth -Gen10:2/1Ch1:5
Gomer was the son of Japheth -Gen10:2/1Ch1:5
Togarmah was the son of Gomer -1Ch1:6

We know Ezekiel wasnt prophesying to those individuals who's names I mentioned because they were dead long before Ezekiel.

So their names can only be indicative of a physical location, specifically the land where these men ruled/lived.


Jeremiah details this account in his prophecy as well.

Jer 1:14 Then the LORD said unto me, Out of the north an evil shall break forth upon all the inhabitants of the land.
Jer 1:15 For, lo, I will call all the families of the kingdoms of the north, saith the LORD; and they shall
come, and they shall set every one his throne at the entering of the gates of Jerusalem, and against all the walls thereof round about, and against all the cities of Judah.

Eze 38:15 And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army:



Personally, I think in Revelation that Gog/Magog is being used to describe everything outside of Israel or the entire world that hasnt been taken.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (you and me buddy!)

Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Ebed, can you address this reply I gave to your post?

Its worth pointing out that two influences are at play, in Ezekiel, God is the catalyst, whereas in Revelation, satan is the catalyst.

Your thoughts?

Cheers

 

[ebedmelech]

Im not awful concerned with Revelation at this point, we can identify Gog/Magog without Revelation, as Ezekiel existed before Revelation was written. All of the places mentioned in Ezekiel would have been well known in his time.

I don't understand why not because Ezekiel is the OT "Revelation"...but ok.

Eze 38:2 Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,

Eze 38:6 Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.

Gog was the son of Joel -1Ch5:4
Magog was the son of Japheth. -Gen10:2/1Ch1:5
Tubal was the son of Japheth -Gen10:2/1Ch1:5
Meshech was the son of Japheth -Gen10:2/1Ch1:5
Gomer was the son of Japheth -Gen10:2/1Ch1:5
Togarmah was the son of Gomer -1Ch1:6

We know Ezekiel wasnt prophesying to those individuals who's names I mentioned because they were dead long before Ezekiel.

So their names can only be indicative of a physical location, specifically the land where these men ruled/lived.

This is fine as we look at the historical narrative...that is one thing...however that their only significance "geography" because they all died in Noah's flood.

Jeremiah details this account in his prophecy as well.

Jer 1:14 Then the LORD said unto me, Out of the north an evil shall break forth upon all the inhabitants of the land.
Jer 1:15 For, lo, I will call all the families of the kingdoms of the north, saith the LORD; and they shall
come, and they shall set every one his throne at the entering of the gates of Jerusalem, and against all the walls thereof round about, and against all the cities of Judah.

Eze 38:15 And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army:

Jeremiah's event happens when Nebuchadnezzar comes and destroys Judah. However, when it come to Ezekiel 38 & 39, I think the significance is that it's the last mention of Gog and Magog until Revelation 20, and it is there, that it is said WHO they are and what they do in very similar prophetic fashion.

Personally, I think in Revelation that Gog/Magog is being used to describe everything outside of Israel or the entire world that hasnt been taken.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (you and me buddy!)

Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

That's right, they are influenced by Satan...so we should look at the "geographical regions" based on scripture BUT also keep in mind what "Israel" this is! We are told by Peter and Paul that the church is "Israel" in the NT. As in Romans 9, Ephesians 2, and 1 Peter 2:9, 10. In doing so, the symbolism of Gog and Magog in the passage come clear. Especially when it's said Gog and Magog come from "the four quarters of the earth".

 

[shturt678s]

If ya need CPR, just call me

.

Have cardio hill just before my place, ie, may call, but no to resuscitation, ie, nothing personal, ie, just let me go, and call a backhoe.

Trying to get my breath, Jack

 

[SG9]

Have cardio hill just before my place, ie, may call, but no to resuscitation, ie, nothing personal, ie, just let me go, and call a backhoe.

Trying to get my breath, Jack

A backhoe, Jack? Is it because you ate too much? Thanks, and get caught up in breath, we love you, Jack!

 

[ebedmelech]

Let's move to Jn.2:20, "The Jews, accordingly, said, Forty and six years was this Sanctuary built (not "Temple") built, and wilt thou raise it up in three days?" The Jewish Temple was origninally built by Solomon and was destroyed by Neb. of course. It was rebuilt on the ruined site by Neh. and Ez. of course. Then the rebuilding by Herod.

The Jews, of course, did not grasp what Jesus meant, but their misunderstanding did not lie in applying His words to the Sanctuary (naos), as though Jesus had not referred to that building (naos in the ieron), ie, including the Sanctuary (naos) in that building.

Their error lay in appying Jesus' words to this building exclusively (naos within the ieron) exclusively. Their unbelief saw only this building (naos with the ieron) and nothing of its true signifciance and higher connection.

Now the Sanctuary (naos - only the structure within the Temple), the house in which God dwelt among Israel, was the type of the body of Jesus in which the Godhead dwelt and tented among men, Jn.1:14. The Sanctuary (naos) and Jesus thus belong insolubly together, the one is the shadow of the other. This is what the key to the mashal conveys.

Once one makes ieron (Temple) with all the courtyards, pillers, altar, staircase, doors, and etc. with the naos "Sanctuary" (Holy Place and Most Holy Place) structure also within = "Sanctuary" the whole mashal is lost including the true interpretation of Rev.11:1 for those that get through the Trumpets of delusions that most could care less? Let alone IIThess.2:4 "Sanctuary."

Jack

I wouldn't call Herod's temple a *rebuilding* it was moreso a renovation. However, my point would be the entire thing (temple/sanctuary) is rebuilt by Ezra and Nehemiah in the restoration, which once again makes the point temple/sanctuary can be translated "naos", and the context will determine as much.

As I said Jack, you may have a point...but you have to be patient, while I research this out...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by shturt678s

Let's move to Jn.2:20, "The Jews, accordingly, said, Forty and six years was this Sanctuary built (not "Temple") built, and wilt thou raise it up in three days?" The Jewish Temple was origninally built by Solomon and was destroyed by Neb. of course. It was rebuilt on the ruined site by Neh. and Ez. of course. Then the rebuilding by Herod.

The Jews, of course, did not grasp what Jesus meant, but their misunderstanding did not lie in applying His words to the Sanctuary (naos), as though Jesus had not referred to that building (naos in the ieron), ie, including the Sanctuary (naos) in that building.

Their error lay in appying Jesus' words to this building exclusively (naos within the ieron) exclusively. Their unbelief saw only this building (naos with the ieron) and nothing of its true signifciance and higher connection.

Now the Sanctuary (naos - only the structure within the Temple), the house in which God dwelt among Israel, was the type of the body of Jesus in which the Godhead dwelt and tented among men, Jn.1:14. The Sanctuary (naos) and Jesus thus belong insolubly together, the one is the shadow of the other. This is what the key to the mashal conveys.

Once one makes ieron (Temple) with all the courtyards, pillers, altar, staircase, doors, and etc. with the naos "Sanctuary" (Holy Place and Most Holy Place) structure also within = "Sanctuary" the whole mashal is lost including the true interpretation of Rev.11:1 for those that get through the Trumpets of delusions that most could care less? Let alone IIThess.2:4 "Sanctuary."

Jack
​

I wouldn't call Herod's temple a *rebuilding* it was moreso a renovation. However, my point would be the entire thing (temple/sanctuary) is rebuilt by Ezra and Nehemiah in the restoration, which once again makes the point temple/sanctuary can be translated "naos", and the context will determine as much.

As I said Jack, you may have a point...but you have to be patient, while I research this out...

I also agree with his definition.......

http://www.christianforums.com/t7510446/
Camp, Temple and Sanctuary in NT/NC

Greek Lexicon :: G3485 (KJV)
Strong's Number G3485 matches the Greek ναός (naos), which occurs 46 times in 40 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV

Reve 15:8
And is being replete the Sanctuary/naoV <3485> of smoke out of the Glory of the God and out of the power of Him. And no one was *able to be entering into the Sanctuary/naon <3485> until should be being finished the seven blows of the seven Messengers.

Fwiw, the greek word used for "Temple in the NT is never used once in all of Revelation.

Greek Lexicon :: G2411 (KJV)
Strong's Number G2411 matches the Greek &#7985;&#949;&#961;&#8057;&#957; (hieron), which occurs 71 times in 67 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV

Luke 21:5
And certain saying about the Temple/ierou <2411> that to stones ideal and devoted-things/ana-qhmasin <334> it hath been adorned, He said......

Studies In The Scriptures - Tabernacle Shadows - Chapter 1

The Camp--The Court--The Tabernacle--The Brazen Altar--The Laver-- The Table--The Lampstand--The Golden Altar--The Mercy Seat and Ark--The Gate--The First Veil--The Second Veil--The Significance of These and Their Antitypes.

 

[ShedSinforChrist]

I don't understand why not because Ezekiel is the OT "Revelation"...but ok.

Because Ezekiels prophecy was given prior to Revelation, meaning that they studied it as a prophecy before Revelation existed and they would have died before Revelation happened.

This is fine as we look at the historical narrative...that is one thing...however that their only significance "geography" because they all died in Noah's flood.

This statement doesnt really make any sense, Japheth fathered most of them and he was Noahs son, so I dont understand how they died in the flood when they werent even born until after the flood.

Jeremiah's event happens when Nebuchadnezzar comes and destroys Judah. However, when it come to Ezekiel 38 & 39, I think the significance is that it's the last mention of Gog and Magog until Revelation 20, and it is there, that it is said WHO they are and what they do in very similar prophetic fashion.

How does Babylon, which is east of Israel, equate to "Kingdoms of the north"?????

Thats physically impossible, Babylon is east of Israel, not north.

Revelation doesnt mention any of the other locations, it says 4 corners of the earth regarding the nations referred to as Gog/magog. Has nothing to do with Ezekiels prophecy.

In Ezekiels prophecy, God brings them against Israel, in Revelation, Satan deceives the nations but nothing happens, they are simply destroyed.

God and satan are two different spirits. And these are two different prophetic events.

That's right, they are influenced by Satan...so we should look at the "geographical regions" based on scripture BUT also keep in mind what "Israel" this is! We are told by Peter and Paul that the church is "Israel" in the NT. As in Romans 9, Ephesians 2, and 1 Peter 2:9, 10. In doing so, the symbolism of Gog and Magog in the passage come clear. Especially when it's said Gog and Magog come from "the four quarters of the earth".

Eze 39:5 Thou shalt fall upon the open field: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.
Eze 39:6 And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the LORD.

Eze 39:22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward. Has not happened yet. (House of Israel is mentioned 152 times pertaining to the Jews, with only 6 of those accounts being used in the New Testament)

Eze 39:23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity(70ad): because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them(70ad-1948), and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
Eze 39:24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them(The Jews had Jesus crucified), and hid my face from them.(Where was God to help the Jews from 70ad-1948? No where, he was punishing them.)
Eze 39:25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;(1948)
Eze 39:26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.(God is forgiving them)
Eze 39:27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands(1948), and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;(Israel is the current world focus)
Eze 39:28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen(70ad)but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.(Captivity among the heathen)


Future Prophecy, yet to happen

Eze 39:29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

 

[shturt678s]

With all your highfalutin language, I am not sure I understand. Please, in good, basic, plain spoken, no nonsense, matter of fact, straightforward English (down to earth), are you saying that this "temple" John was to measure in Rev. 11, and that the man of sin was to enter in 2 Thes., is meant to be a "brick and mortar" building?

Lamad

All we have to do is break out the ol' Interlinears, and every place you see naos in the N.T. render "Sanctuary." Purge the inferior "Temple" and merge "Sanctuary."

Rev.11:1, "reed like a rod,....Up and measure the Sanctuary...." The three terms are to be viewed as a unit, ie, Sanctuary of God, the altar, and those whorshipping in connection with it.

The signified composite denotes the Church that gets through the Trumpets of delusions. Will spare you the horrors of IIThess.2:3 for now that is coming to pass now, ie, this moment.

Jack

 

[shturt678s]

A backhoe, Jack? Is it because you ate too much? Thanks, and get caught up in breath, we love you, Jack!

unagapable Jack

 

[shturt678s]

I wouldn't call Herod's temple a *rebuilding* it was moreso a renovation. However, my point would be the entire thing (temple/sanctuary) is rebuilt by Ezra and Nehemiah in the restoration, which once again makes the point temple/sanctuary can be translated "naos", and the context will determine as much.

As I said Jack, you may have a point...but you have to be patient, while I research this out...

No refute intended, ie, Jn.2:20: After Neh. and Ez. rebuilt the Temple, Herod undertook a gradual rebuilding from the foundation up, ie, I'll accept "renovation," but unable to accept naos = Sanctuary + Temple when the Jews contextually were thinking about the Sanctuary within the Temple in v.19, ie, this Temple + Sanctuary = / = the Sanctuary in Jesus for sure.

You and I go back a ways thus always patient.

Jack

 

[ShedSinforChrist]

No refute intended, ie, Jn.2:20: After Neh. and Ez. rebuilt the Temple, Herod undertook a gradual rebuilding from the foundation up, ie, I'll accept "renovation," but unable to accept naos = Sanctuary + Temple when the Jews contextually were thinking about the Sanctuary within the Temple in v.19, ie, this Temple + Sanctuary = / = the Sanctuary in Jesus for sure.

You and I go back a ways thus always patient.

Jack

Its almost like we can just remove the word "Temple" from the Bible altogether!

Heck, lets just remove the Jews from the face of the earth and finish what Hitler started right??? Sheeeesh.

You know what I find interesting on this forum, is the extremist left of prophetic comprehension.


Seems like the objective here is to remove the Jews, the temple, and any prophecy concerning the end times from modern Christian thinking. Unreal.

No wonder the scholars dont hang here. I digress.

Not feeling so "cheery".

Forgive me.

 

[Interplanner]

Actually God wants the natural branches in his mission (Rom 11). But he doesn't want people who think they are saved by ethnos. That's what Rom 11 is saying. It is not predicting a future role for the ethnos of Israel or any country. It's just like Jn 1:13: no descent, no human decision, no husband's wishes.

God has now bound all men to sin, so he can now have mercy on them all in the Gospel, Rom 11.

 

[ShedSinforChrist]

Actually God wants the natural branches in his mission (Rom 11). But he doesn't want people who think they are saved by ethnos. That's what Rom 11 is saying. It is not predicting a future role for the ethnos of Israel or any country. It's just like Jn 1:13: no descent, no human decision, no husband's wishes.

God has now bound all men to sin, so he can now have mercy on them all in the Gospel, Rom 11.

Lol, so you think that Jews believe they are saved simply because they are Jews.

Wow.

 

[Interplanner]

Half the people here at E&P think that way.

 

[ShedSinforChrist]

Half the people here at E&P think that way.

Shocker, I couldn't tell.

Sounds like racism if you ask me.

 

[parousia70]

Heck, lets just remove the Jews from the face of the earth and finish what Hitler started right??? Sheeeesh.

Seems like the objective here is to remove the Jews, the temple, and any prophecy concerning the end times from modern Christian thinking. Unreal.

Sounds like racism if you ask me.

Seems to me that Calling for the future genocide of 2/3 of todays Jews under the guise of "support for Israel" and "fulfilling end time prophesy" is what is actually racist.

Talk about finishing what Hitler started....

Sheeeesh indeed!

 

[ShedSinforChrist]

Seems to me that Calling for the future genocide of 2/3 of todays Jews under the guise of "support for Israel" and "fulfilling end time prophesy" is what is actually racist.

Talk about finishing what Hitler started....

Sheeeesh indeed!

Interesting, I didnt see where anyone called for 2/3 of the Jews to be destroyed.

Can you point that out in the Bible, otherwise your claim is false.