29 & Never Dated

[Juan777]

That intricate weaving includes the connections of the neurons and the chemical makeup in your brain. It has to. Every male human being has been uniquely fashioned by God.



And finding a wife is a worthy endeavor worth pursuing.

How does that prove that some men are not powerless to obtain women? There is no issue with the verses.

 

[Juan777]

I don't believe this. Got any Scripture to back these statements up?

1 Cor 6:16. I have experienced this personally as well and spoke with another giy who has. Usually Christians who for one reason or another end up visiting them behind their parent's back and claiming they are somewhere else. Also you are supposed to witness to strangers about Jesus not sex them. Its dishonest not to at least bring up the gospel and calling on Jesus before any clothes is takeb off. That way if she really has demons you should get a reaction from her.

 

[F.E.A.R.]

Dont worry @DragonFox91, I am sure the guys who dont get it are probably chads/chadlites who have it easier and have the luxury of saying its your fault and you are not powerless. Image the nerve for people to say its your fault. Dont worry, Jesus understands and knows our troubles. Keep faith.

Nobody says it's "his" fault. You people really cannot seem to use logic or comprehend stuff. If you have a problem you have to solve it and pray to God at the same time. That means you have to put in the effort to change some aspects of you in order for God to work with you. God won't magically make you super attractive, clean and a billionaire. The mass keeps making a mistake, thinking God is this magician and will just make things happen. God works in his own ways and not the ways we think. And if @DragonFox91 isn't willing to fix the part of himself, to break that barrier, to go out and meet women so he can finally find a spouse, then he will remain single for the rest of his life.

I'll say it as many times as it takes, if you sit in one place and do nothing, God isn't going to gift you a spouse from the heavens, he isn't gift a you house, a car, food etc. being unemployed (this isn't directed at OP, I'm just giving out an example) in a first world country and crying at the same time you cannot find a woman to be your spouse among 329.5 million people as of 2020, then there must be something wrong with you.

I have a friend from the USA who told me if you want to meet good women, then Southern and Mid West women come as still traditional.

 

[linux.poet]

How does that prove that some men are not powerless to obtain women?

The second part of the Proverbs verse is key "obtains favor from the Lord." A man who pursues a wife is pursuing the Lord's favor and will be blessed. Now he may not get what he is seeking, but he will get something - insight, learning, perhaps a friend.

When the Lord backs you up, you are never powerless, and pursuing the Lord's favor is never a futile pursuit.

For the Lord God is a sun and shield;
he bestows favor and honor.
No good thing does the Lord withhold
from those who walk uprightly.

For his anger is but for a moment;
his favor is for a lifetime.
Weeping may linger for the night,
but joy comes with the morning.

Happy is the one who listens to me,
watching daily at my [wisdom's] gates,
waiting beside my doors.
For whoever finds me [wisdom] finds life
and obtains favor from the Lord,
36 but those who miss me injure themselves;
all who hate me love death.”

If any of you is lacking in wisdom, ask God, who gives to all generously and ungrudgingly, and it will be given you.

1 Cor 6:16.

That verse has nothing to do with demons. Becoming "one flesh" is what happens when you have bodily relations with someone, regardless of who they are.

16 Do you not know that whoever is united to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For it is said, “The two shall be one flesh.”

That quote is from Genesis.

23 Then the man said,

“At last this is bone of my bones,
And flesh of my flesh;
She shall be called ‘woman,’
Because she was taken out of man.”

24 For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.

The context of this quote suggests that, before the man and women were separated, one all-sufficient man existed that embodied the whole of humanity, that something was "taken out" of Adam to make Eve. Thus, when the man and the woman are put back together during sex, the unity of the original man is restored, and the two become one being. (This is not just my opinion, it's that of John Paul II in Men and Women He Created Them, a book I have been reading recently.)

However, 1 Corinthians 7 is still true, and I am still one whole human being apart from a husband, because I am a member of Christ's Bride, which is the eternal union/marriage. As a part of that union, I am one whole image of God and thus do not need to be remerged into one being with a male, but we can if we want to. But once I am thus merged, it is very painful to un-merge.

7 ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, 8 and the two shall become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two but one flesh. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

The risk of merging with another human being is that you merge with all of their sin nature flaws and weaknesses. It's somewhat dangerous. That is why the two of you must trust the Lord and cooperate with each other in the sanctification process constantly because if one person does not follow the Lord, he or she can introduce sin into the other person's life and drag their spiritual progress down. Hence the warning about prostitutes. It has nothing to do with demonic forces, it's just the sin nature of the prostitutes', unredeemed, leaking into the body of the poor person who has merged with her and influencing the victim in the wrong direction.

If you have a problem you have to solve it and pray to God at the same time. That means you have to put in the effort to change some aspects of you in order for God to work with you. God won't magically make you super attractive, clean and a billionaire. The mass keeps making a mistake, thinking God is this magician and will just make things happen. God works in his own ways and not the ways we think. And if @DragonFox91 isn't willing to fix the part of himself, to break that barrier, to go out and meet women so he can finally find a spouse, then he will remain single for the rest of his life.

Listen to this man. He knows what he's talking about.

 

[Juan777]

The second part of the Proverbs verse is key "obtains favor from the Lord." A man who pursues a wife is pursuing the Lord's favor and will be blessed. Now he may not get what he is seeking, but he will get something - insight, learning, perhaps a friend.

When the Lord backs you up, you are never powerless, and pursuing the Lord's favor is never a futile pursuit.










That verse has nothing to do with demons. Becoming "one flesh" is what happens when you have bodily relations with someone, regardless of who they are.



That quote is from Genesis.



The context of this quote suggests that, before the man and women were separated, one all-sufficient man existed that embodied the whole of humanity, that something was "taken out" of Adam to make Eve. Thus, when the man and the woman are put back together during sex, the unity of the original man is restored, and the two become one being. (This is not just my opinion, it's that of John Paul II in Men and Women He Created Them, a book I have been reading recently.)

However, 1 Corinthians 7 is still true, and I am still one whole human being apart from a husband, because I am a member of Christ's Bride, which is the eternal union/marriage. As a part of that union, I am one whole image of God and thus do not need to be remerged into one being with a male, but we can if we want to. But once I am thus merged, it is very painful to un-merge.



The risk of merging with another human being is that you merge with all of their sin nature flaws and weaknesses. It's somewhat dangerous. That is why the two of you must trust the Lord and cooperate with each other in the sanctification process constantly because if one person does not follow the Lord, he or she can introduce sin into the other person's life and drag their spiritual progress down. Hence the warning about prostitutes. It has nothing to do with demonic forces, it's just the sin nature of the prostitutes', unredeemed, leaking into the body of the poor person who has merged with her and influencing the victim in the wrong direction.



Listen to this man. He knows what he's talking about.

The symptoms of that merger included insomnia, night terrors, inable to watch fiction, loss of appetite, nausea, feeling like I will turn into a flesh eating zombie, unable to drive, unable to watch porn or fap, staring into space, etc... for something that is seeping into the body (did not have vag sex so I dont know how all that was possible), it sounds like pure venom where a small quantity can do allot of damage.

However everything was fine until the next morning. Why did the attack not occur immediately? Why wait until the next morning? It sounds more like a demon from that place attached itself on me, tracked me, saw what I did which gave it a legal right invited its friends and wrecked havoc causing these symptoms.

Even taking such an argument, the unredeemed woman has that much destructive power, that much darkness to have wrecked my system like thay? If everyone had a similar experience nobody would visit a prostitute and that would be no more.

 

[linux.poet]

The symptoms of that merger included insomnia, night terrors, inable to watch fiction, loss of appetite, nausea, feeling like I will turn into a flesh eating zombie, unable to drive, unable to watch porn or fap, staring into space, etc... for something that is seeping into the body (did not have vag sex so I dont know how all that was possible), it sounds like pure venom where a small quantity can do allot of damage.

It has to do with emotions and the body's pair bonding mechanism that is triggered during sex. Basically that mechanism supposed to tell your body that you're one entity with the other person, so you're more inclined to like the things they like, and dislike the things they dislike, etc. Basically you feel along with them, and you also want to feel the same emotions that they are feeling.

The problem is that most human beings don't have the exact same beliefs as each other about everything, and beliefs create emotions. Even if they agree on major things like the Gospel, number of children, and how money should be spent, they are likely to disagree on minor things like frequency of dishwashing and importance of grades for the children. These disagreements mean that they both feel differently about these items and it strains the bond.

In your case, what likely happened is that your beliefs were so different from that of the prostitute's that your system reacted with revulsion - basically your pair-bonding system rejecting the new bond because of how much of an anathema it was to your beliefs. The Holy Spirit might also have induced those symptoms, trying to clear out that influence and safeguard your system. The reason for the delay is that sex feels good, regardless - the oxytocin and dopamine will come. Once that fades, the comparison of your beliefs to hers settles in and your mind was using all of its resources to fight off those beliefs and that bond. An overactive mind doesn't sleep, and most of the symptoms you listed reveal a state of having no mental resources available (can't drive or watch fiction) and alienation from your body (feeling like a zombie) that wanted to bond with the prostitute.

Anyway, I can't prove that demonic powers weren't involved in your experience, but I can say that it's possible that they were not. I can say that the Scripture you were using, however, does not support the idea of demons automatically residing in prostitutes.

Meanwhile, if you wish to discuss this and related matters further, I request that you move this to private message please. The reason why is that we keep drifting into bodily detail (or I do) which @DragonFox91 wants to keep out of this thread. Also, I sense that this experience is likely personal to you and may be sensitive. This is not an attempt to "have the last public word", but that I'm seeing a divergence between your needs in this conversation and DragonFox's intentions for the thread.

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In other things, I will become the title of this thread in slightly more than 4 weeks from today. However, while I may be less concerned about my eventual romantic fate than the deep personal emotional investment of Mr. DragonFox, I am not about to sit on my problem and give up.

I intend to travel for chess tournaments very soon, and a stop in Michigan is definitely on my list of places to visit. I want to know what is going on up there and why there are so many eligible bachelors who are unable to find lady friends. I shall be looking for someone to travel with me as I move through the chess tournament world, and while I do not think anyone on this forum is willing to do so, trouble is definitely headed north.

 

[Juan777]

It has to do with emotions and the body's pair bonding mechanism that is triggered during sex. Basically that mechanism supposed to tell your body that you're one entity with the other person, so you're more inclined to like the things they like, and dislike the things they dislike, etc. Basically you feel along with them, and you also want to feel the same emotions that they are feeling.

The problem is that most human beings don't have the exact same beliefs as each other about everything, and beliefs create emotions. Even if they agree on major things like the Gospel, number of children, and how money should be spent, they are likely to disagree on minor things like frequency of dishwashing and importance of grades for the children. These disagreements mean that they both feel differently about these items and it strains the bond.

In your case, what likely happened is that your beliefs were so different from that of the prostitute's that your system reacted with revulsion - basically your pair-bonding system rejecting the new bond because of how much of an anathema it was to your beliefs. The Holy Spirit might also have induced those symptoms, trying to clear out that influence and safeguard your system. The reason for the delay is that sex feels good, regardless - the oxytocin and dopamine will come. Once that fades, the comparison of your beliefs to hers settles in and your mind was using all of its resources to fight off those beliefs and that bond. An overactive mind doesn't sleep, and most of the symptoms you listed reveal a state of having no mental resources available (can't drive or watch fiction) and alienation from your body (feeling like a zombie) that wanted to bond with the prostitute.

Anyway, I can't prove that demonic powers weren't involved in your experience, but I can say that it's possible that they were not. I can say that the Scripture you were using, however, does not support the idea of demons automatically residing in prostitutes.

Meanwhile, if you wish to discuss this and related matters further, I request that you move this to private message please. The reason why is that we keep drifting into bodily detail (or I do) which @DragonFox91 wants to keep out of this thread. Also, I sense that this experience is likely personal to you and may be sensitive. This is not an attempt to "have the last public word", but that I'm seeing a divergence between your needs in this conversation and DragonFox's intentions for the thread.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

In other things, I will become the title of this thread in slightly more than 4 weeks from today. However, while I may be less concerned about my eventual romantic fate than the deep personal emotional investment of Mr. DragonFox, I am not about to sit on my problem and give up.

I intend to travel for chess tournaments very soon, and a stop in Michigan is definitely on my list of places to visit. I want to know what is going on up there and why there are so many eligible bachelors who are unable to find lady friends. I shall be looking for someone to travel with me as I move through the chess tournament world, and while I do not think anyone on this forum is willing to do so, trouble is definitely headed north.

Well, it's good information because, in the event that the throught about visiting a prostitute has been entertained by anyone's mind who has read this thread, because they are at a low point in their lives and/or experiencing a dry-spell or the issues represented by the OP, will know at least something about it. Anyone can be tempted.

Even what you've written sounds serious. Very serious...for someone who brought up the idea on this thread. Perhaps you won't suggests its easy for Christian men to get sex by paying for prostitutes if such extreme dynamics are involved -- demon or no demon!

 

[linux.poet]

Even what you've written sounds serious. Very serious...for someone who brought up the idea on this thread. Perhaps you won't suggests its easy for Christian men to get sex by paying for prostitutes if such extreme dynamics are involved -- demon or no demon!

Thank you for prompting me to think more about this topic. It appears that I have made a subtle error in thought.

My remark about prostitutes wasn't about Christians who were trying to follow God's commands. I was talking about the incel community, which I think is largely composed of unbelievers. In that case, the beliefs would be different and the effects would be less. Unfortunately, people do underestimate the bonding effects of intercourse and the trauma it can cause, and I apologize for making that mistake.

One last remark - God protects the unfortunate Christian who is married to an unbeliever from the negative effects of that bond.

13 And if any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever and he consents to live with her, she should not divorce the husband. 14 For the unbelieving husband is made holy through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy through the brother. Otherwise, your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy. 15 But if the unbelieving partner separates, let it be so; in such a case the brother or sister is not bound. It is to peace that God has called us.

Somehow the marriage makes it okay, probably because the unbeliever is following God's commands regarding sexuality because they are married. The influence of the Christian controls the bond. But there is no such protection for prostitutes.

 

[Juan777]

Thank you for prompting me to think more about this topic. It appears that I have made a subtle error in thought.

My remark about prostitutes wasn't about Christians who were trying to follow God's commands. I was talking about the incel community, which I think is largely composed of unbelievers. In that case, the beliefs would be different and the effects would be less. Unfortunately, people do underestimate the bonding effects of intercourse and the trauma it can cause, and I apologize for making that mistake.

Duly noted and accepted. As a Christian board, we can assume any minority of incels who are believers would likely congregate on this board. While it may seem easy for a Christian to get rid of the incel status with a pen-stroke by claiming it's voluntary or they are a eunuch for the kingdom of God, or have the gift of singleness, if you choose not to do that, then you become a Christian incel in that sense. It would be very tempting for a Christian incel to think about doing this like a one-time thing and then asking for forgiveness afterwards and move-on. However, as we see it doesn't work that way, and there are real consequences for this type of thing, even if you don't get an STD. One thing that is very fruitful with this discussion is to see there are other things apart from worrying about catching STDs if anyone is thinking of going there.

Your treatment of the subject, honestly, is the one of the most serious and non-judgmental/condemnatory feedback that I have got since the event in December 2014. I think many people will benefit from the wealth of information on this thread.

Before, we end this arc of the thread, do you have any insights you would like to share to Christian incels who feel be tempted to, or actively looking at porn, subscribing to onlyfans, and how that would affect their souls? The internet has made access to these things very easy and like a mouse-click away. I know on my end, there is a wierd dynamic, where I am experiencing the restraining effect of the Holy Spirit, so I'm not really into-into these things and as they are heavy, weighty or draggy on the spirit despite seeming to be like eye-candy to the flesh if looked at on occasion. Obviously pair-bonding would not apply there.

 

[linux.poet]

Yeah. I think the issue for me is, I always feel like that if I wanted a marriage relationship, I could just get up, abandon my life, and go get one. I think there is a pursuit process that I will have to do, and that process will likely be harsh and take longer than I expected, but if I want something, I'm pretty confident that I can just go get it for myself. Thus I am confident that my singleness is voluntary and it's a proverbial jacket that I can ditch at any time if it proves to be an inconvenience.

But I don't know how to manufacture that self-confidence and give it to you - I wish that I could. I've never really blamed myself for not wanting to be married or the reasons why I felt that pursuing marriage was not a good idea for me in previous times. I also feel like, if I pursue marriage and fail, it's God's will for me and something that I'm willing to accept, and God knows best. In that case it would not be my fault, because I stood up and advocated for myself and what I wanted. God controls the results, not me.

So I guess I actually don't understand incels. Time to start over in my thought process. Whoops.

do you have any insights you would like to share to Christian incels who feel be tempted to, or actively looking at porn, subscribing to onlyfans, and how that would affect their souls?

The soul is not an area that I am qualified to address. If you're just watching these shows, you're just inhaling lies about how sex works, and that damages your ability to function in a real sexual relationship because you will expect it to be like the illusion on screen, rather than how a real relationship actually works.

But an incel may be thinking: why bother having correct thinking about this if I'm never going to do it again for real? I might as well give in. I'm screwed (or unscrewed lol). The issue is that the human brain is not programmed to believe lies, so by inviting lies and deceptions into your life, you're inviting mental health issues to just walk right in. And lies grow - believing lies about sexuality will leak into other areas of your life. Remember that marriage is a picture of the relationship between Christ and His Church, so believing lies about sex impairs your relationship with God. If you reject a true picture of the relationship between Christ and the Church, how can you accept the real thing? You're just playing with your mind and turning it against each itself, and your brain is not designed to handle contradictory information. You'll get more mental paralysis out of the deal.

(This is why I, a virgin, have put so much effort into researching sex - I wanted a better relationship with God. How could I understand the relationship between Christ and me if I didn't understand the picture he painted to show me what was like? The idea of hiding information about this doesn't seem to be the wise course. As it is written in Hosea, people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.)

The second negative effect is that it impairs your relationships with married people you might know. If you think that your friends' relationship is like that on a porn film, you won't be thinking too highly of them.

Obviously pair-bonding would not apply there.

This is incorrect. If you just watch the show, sure, but the real appeal of these shows is that people touch to them. This damages your body's ability to bond properly, because sex has to bond to something, so it will actually bond to the images on the screen. This will make it so your body only gets turned on by the image or something similar to it.

This also happens, of course, with serially promiscuous folks. Over time, the pair-bonding mechanism of sex learns that it cannot bond to the person, because the person changes, so it is will bond to something else: an object, an image, a pattern of events. Unbelievers, of course, simply assume that's how sex works, and make it a game to figure out how to trigger the other person's bonding mechanism by guessing or determining what it has bonded to.

The danger of having your sexuality bound to something else, whether a porn film or a pattern of events is that any person can arouse you without your consent - your sexuality is out of your control. This can lead to actual sex with someone you wouldn't have ever considered if you had never seen the show, outside of marriage. They got you. You become a victim.

And then, many porn films are violent, which means that you then get turned on by violent people and think that they are the best. You're crushing on them, which causes you to overlook their faults, and then you can end up in a 50 Shades of Grey style situation. It's similar to how parental abuse victims are attracted to abusers - the pair bonding mechanism is tuned by our parents - we want people like them to bond with. If you bring an abuser into your life via the screen, you'll get the same effect. And take it from me: you don't want that in your life. It took me years of hard work to recover from my parent's abuse, weathering the awful attractions, learning from them by applying Scripture to each situation in order to heal up. You don't want to have to deal with that if you don't have to.

The last important item, which might be helpful for your specific situation, is that the pair-bonding mechanism can recover itself. It can take a long time to do so, but it does, and it's my understanding that men have a much easier time of it than women. Also, the bonding mechanism is designed to bond to a person, so bonding to that is more satisfying. I know of a male unbeliever who slept with over 100 women and then decided to get married. His opinion: marriage is better. What happened? His bonding mechanism recovered inside that relationship. There are likely many other reasons why his married life is better, but yeah.

So what will likely happen is that you will feel attracted to women who are like your former wife in some way for awhile (unless the divorce was years ago, in which case, ignore me a little bit) and the attraction will likely bring back all of the painful memories of the divorce and what she did, all of the guilt and pain, etc. I know this because all of my attractions reminded me of my abusive father (the original tuner of the mechanism) and the pain he caused me, and I projected all of his abusive qualities - fairly or unfairly - onto them. It hurts. (I also know this because, literally weeks after I ended my father's abuse, I met a poor guy who was blackmailed into an affair and got divorced, and we understood each other on a very deep level almost immediately. It was scary, but it was God trying to open my eyes. As NF says in "Outcast": "I've never been married but I've felt divorced.") Take whatever insight these attractions and these people give on your past, but don't pursue them for a relationship until you heal up. The insight is what helps you heal.

And thus, given all of that, I have no room for judgement. Damage to the pair-bonding mechanism of sex isn't always the fault of the person who has the damage. Sometimes people are just victims. Sometimes people don't understand sex and they make mistakes. I trust that God can heal, because God has been healing me and if I need more healing, God will provide it. Follow the Scripture from now on, take care of the wounded people, and God will take care of you.

 

[ReesePiece23]

I wasn't born into a Christian household - in fact, I didn't even consider Christianity until I was 23. So my life, from high school age until the time I decided to become Christian, was pretty standard. Girlfriends, wild nights that lasted until eight or nine in the morning, cheap thrills, cheaper food, names I can't remember, phone numbers given to me that got left on the seat of the nightbus, you name it. So I have the advantage of KNOWING what I'm missing... And the luxury of not having to wonder.

This is why I continuously preach the same message. Dig deep, look at yourself in the mirror and get in the game. Because at the end of the day, sex is overrated (no, really,it is), porn is nothing but labour intensive misery for the actors involved AND the crew a lot of the time, and at the risk of sounding pseudo-inspirational, the best relationship we can have is the relationship we have with ourselves WHEN we're steamrolling our passions and making a genuine contribution to the world.

To be honest, the fact I'm single has nothing to do with being Christian. I enjoy staying at The Ritz, I love being able to travel anywhere in the world at the drop of a hat, and knowing that I'm smashing it with my career and hobbies is a feeling of satiety and fulfilment like NO other.

God delivers because I listen to my heart, not my other organs. It's perhaps a throwaway piece of advice, but you might actually be wasting the best years of your life worrying about something that actually isn't as good as you think it is.

 

[linux.poet]

It's perhaps a throwaway piece of advice, but you might actually be wasting the best years of your life worrying about something that actually isn't as good as you think it is.

 

[ReesePiece23]

View attachment 322184

Yeah, but this is why I can comment. I've unfortunately lived a very full life and actually gained the necessary experience to know what I'm talking about. (Oh, and a couple of friends are actually in the porn industry.)

Sex is great, but not good enough to essentially put your life on hold for. And this is exactly why a lot of members are in this position in the first place, anyone on here with half a brain or a streak of confidence is a threat to them. So they don't listen, they just rattle off sarcasm and second rate memes then crawl back into their hole.

Which is exactly what I like to try and avoid, it's not necessary, because I actually am just here to offer moral support and nothing else, I don't use this place as a soapbox. I just don't have a church. (But never mind, I'll wait now for the "triggered" meme or the condescending Wonka image.)

 

[bèlla]

In respect to porn, I’ve known people who live like that and they’re a slim minority. There’s a correlation between indulgence and satisfaction. The kinkier things get the more you need it for fulfillment. Most people with those proclivities find others like themselves.

You might imagine your delight in having the same. But what you haven’t considered is the other stuff that goes along. Like open relationships, polygyny, bisexuality, and practices you may find repugnant.

Just because you won’t doesn’t mean its off-limits. She may ask for someone else or take matters in her hands. I’ve seen a lot of relationships break or bring in a third because someone wanted more. It’s rarely shared by both.

The average woman isn’t doing that stuff. You’re setting yourself up for a letdown and session with your pastor if you persist. She will complain and turn to others in the church for support if you do.

Your wife isn’t a porn star. Whetting your whistle about things you may never experience is pointless. Nevertheless, there’s Christians on the fringe but they twist the bible to justify their antics. I don’t agree with them.

The marriage bed is sacred. I think Driscoll did a good job tackling difficult subjects in Real Sex. You may want to read it. Sex is wonderful when broached in the right context with open minds and hearts.

Porn isn’t a substitute and you can’t do what he does. Put your time and effort in the one you’re with rather than the one you wish you had. It’s make believe. Nothing more or less.

That doesn’t mean you can’t have an adventurous sex life with your spouse. But it shouldn’t be founded on porn. Nor should it be playing through your thoughts when you’re together. Bring all of yourself to your lovemaking and you’ll enjoy it.

~bella

 

[PinkDiamond]

I know double post, but this isn't related to last post.

I am sad today. I feel like a loser. I feel like it'll never change. B/c it never changes. I never make progress. I am not good today.
I feel heartbroken.
I hate this so much.
I hate being single.
Everything's just a distraction from it.
I am completely stuck
What's the point in even trying? It's always a deadend.
FEAR, I can't even find singles at all.
If I wasn't a nerd, I'd probably have one.
I am sad
It will never change. It never has.


Some probably do, yes.


I don't pray enough. I've never been good at actually taking the time to do it. :/

I browsed through this thread and read some of the advice that has been shared. I think that you are being too hard on yourself and feeling shame about your lack of experiences. The shame can be crippling. There is really no reason to feel embarrassed. I think the shame is holding you back. You are not a " loser," because of your relationship status.

As a Christian woman, I have never cared about a guy's lack of dating experience. If he is secure in himself and doesn't make it an issue, it isn't an issue for me. I would be far more concerned about a guy who was sleeping around with women to validate his manhood ( as was pretty much suggested by one in this thread). The worst thing you can ever do as a Christian man ( or woman ) is to give yourself to immorality to impress others. What have you gained then? Even if you should impress a few foolish women, you could end up throwing away your own soul.
Not to mention that the quality of those relationships ( with those who are impressed by immorality ) will be very poor.

Instead of allowing your mind to dwell on negative, hopeless thoughts that are not based in truth, I would seek God for help and wisdom in this area. Also, I would try to take practical steps to work on communication skills, etc and give yourself a plan for putting yourself out there

 

[linux.poet]

And this is exactly why a lot of members are in this position in the first place, anyone on here with half a brain or a streak of confidence is a threat to them. So they don't listen, they just rattle off sarcasm and second rate memes then crawl back into their hole.

That meme was actually intended to make fun of myself and try to reassure you that I know what I'm doing. I actually know, from experience, that I enjoy debating sexual topics online with people who are comfortable debating them, and it is a real pleasure of mine.

I suspect that I enjoy it because I enjoy debating anything, and also because sex is a subject that isn't commonly talked about. I enjoy knowing things that I am not encouraged to know. I just enjoy researching and learning things, and talking about my research with others helps me learn even more things. I got a totally new perspective on incels this week, and that's just the tip of the iceberg of the internal territory I've discovered as a result of this conversation. So I'm not missing out on anything here.

I would also advise you to be careful over shame over your past misdeeds. My dad has repeatedly shamed me for my sexuality and disparaged any future marriage and children I may possess. (He did that out of his own shame over something that happened to him that he blamed himself for, even though he was the victim.) This caused me to view sex as worthless for many years. I suspect that your previous sexual experiences may have a similar effect. Sex within marriage is sex without shame, at its best, and sex outside of marriage does not completely reflect sex within marriage - in fact, in many ways the two are opposites. So the only authority you have from your experience is to say that sex outside of marriage isn't worth it, which we all agree on.

Even if sex wasn't pleasurable and actually was miserable, some men might want to raise a family so much that they would do it anyway - and some women would too. If those people are being denied that privilege, it is a legitimate pain.

Meanwhile, to want to marry someone is the desire to give your body to someone else as a disinterested gift of self (to paraphrase John Paul II again) and to accept the other person's body as a gift from them and God. It pays not to look someone else's gift body in the mouth too much. Now if you want to sacrifice your body's reproductive capacity for God's kingdom purposes, that's great, but please don't do it out of shame or guilt over past misdeeds, or because you can't find a suitable girlfriend. That doesn't really work as giving yourself up anyway, because you're not being honest with God.

The first step to dealing with all of this is to be honest about what you want. Mr. DragonFox has been honest - he wants to be married. You may want to remain single because you think it is more effective for God's kingdom purposes if you do. But don't remain single because of your previous sexual experiences as an unbeliever, because that's the wrong reason.

As for me, *looks up from notebook* I have decided to pursue marriage at this point. The reason being is my past with the abuse and all of that - if I am able to pursue and achieve a successful marriage in which the children are raised in the admonition of the Lord, it shall prove to be a greater witness to the transforming power of the Holy Spirit in my life and a greater witness for God's glory and honor. I go into the task knowing that what I am pursuing will be more difficult than an easy single life I could have had. If the Lord chooses not to give me a marriage, I will accept that result and trust that he has something better for me that I cannot fully grasp, but, given the information I have available, I will fulfill my responsibility to pursue what I believe will be the most effective witness to the Gospel and arrive at the best outcome.

Further, I confess my unease around giving up my reproductive capacity and my unwillingness to do so without subjecting it to the test of pursuit. I confess that my desire for sexuality has been denied and shamed, causing it to emerge in my life in chaotic ways. I have been both burning with passion and shamed and guilted for my condition, and the latter has caused me pain. Therefore, I subject this to the intents of God's sovereignty and turn my will toward my remedy. Getting married, for me, will be missing out on 40 years of more agony. That might not be true of your situation, but it is true of mine, and I am done.

 

[bèlla]

I suspect that I enjoy it because I enjoy debating anything, and also because sex is a subject that isn't commonly talked about.

Sex is frequently discussed and debated. I’ve addressed the subject online for years. They don’t employ the restrictions you encounter in religious settings (online and in-person). Singles have limitations and some topics are off-limits (site wide) and referred elsewhere.

I confess that my desire for sexuality has been denied and shamed, causing it to emerge in my life in chaotic ways. I have been both burning with passion and shamed and guilted for my condition, and the latter has caused me pain.

I’m sorry to hear that. There’s nothing wrong with desiring physical intimacy or finding delight in the prospect of its presence. It’s perfectly normal.

I’m a stickler for honesty. There’s a lot of emotional baggage and unnecessary handwringing for something God created to be enjoyed. When you find the one you’re ready to settle with don’t be afraid to share your heart and encourage him to do the same. The intimate bond is precious and a welcome addition to the rest.

~bella

 

[linux.poet]

Sex is frequently discussed and debated. I’ve addressed the subject online for years. They don’t employ the restrictions you encounter in religious settings (online and in-person). Singles have limitations and some topics are off-limits (site wide) and referred elsewhere.

I understand. Basically the last 5 or so posts in this thread reflect the level I'm comfortable discussing sexuality on. After I'm married, I imagine that I would be less vocal about these kinds of issues, because a marriage deserves privacy. I've seen people posting about their marriages online on social media and I have felt revolted, like I'm intruding on something private. Hopefully people are satisfied that I've stayed in the bounds of general facts and information, rather than trespassing, and I hope to maintain that for the future.

The unfortunate problem has been that I have had a long journey through my mind to unpack all of the abuse stuff, I've gone through a lot of friendships gone awry, in order to make the "single or married?" decision. Lots of research. I had to find some way to talk it out in order to figure it out. So if someone is uncomfortable with the discussion, I respect that, but I think there is a place for figuring things out and troubleshooting. And burning passion wants an outlet.

I’m a stickler for honesty. There’s a lot of emotional baggage and unnecessary handwringing for something God created to be enjoyed.

Agreed. And, thank you.

 

[bèlla]

I had a conversation with a friend yesterday that resulted in sharing my experiences while in the world (during my estrangement) and the mindset I maintained in that period. I hope it offers a modicum of comfort for those who worry about propriety and related subjects.

I engaged in respectable sins. I say that tongue in cheek on purpose. The sort you don’t have trouble admitting openly, won’t shame you or your family or cause a suitor to look at you with disgust or turn away.

I knew some acts were unredeemable. Not that they can’t be forgiven. But the gravity of offense is great and people have difficulty looking beyond it.

I was cognizant of my duty and the impact my actions had on my loved ones. Even if they weren’t directly affected the knowledge was painful. I didn’t want to break their hearts.

I was clear about the ramifications of my behavior and the negative effect it could have on a future companion. There’s things a man doesn’t want to hear or imagine. And I didn’t want to put myself in that position or him.

My convictions were strong and couldn’t be swayed. I committed myself to abstinence without influence at a young age. I had a personal belief that sex was sacred and best saved for marriage. Which aligned with my thoughts about the temple.

I didn’t know if I wanted to marry but I knew sharing myself was wrong and degrading. While I didn’t possess the spiritual knowledge I have today I knew enough to stop and reign myself in.

Most of the people I knew didn’t share my convictions. I learned a lot during my time in Wonderland. I’ve seen the consequence of indulgence and the absence of self-control. Watched the line extend with every step they took.

I have the capacity to hear messed up things without reaction. Maybe its the counseling/encouraging gift in action. I don’t know. But I always listened and provided advice when I could.

In a roundabout way it probably kept me safe. I saw where it led and didn’t want the same. Watching them over the years is a story in itself and validation of the word and its warnings.

Although I was in the world I was consciously aware that a man desired a woman he could respect and praise. He didn’t want used goods. He wanted the apple of his eye and that became my anchor.

I began investing my time in betterment and good works. Everything I poured in expelled something else. My abstinence became a game. Count the years. And I challenged myself to grow. Devouring everything I found.

When I encountered suitors I wasn’t ashamed to acknowledge my constitution or admit the things I haven’t done. I didn’t allow the world to make me an oddball. There’s nothing wrong with a woman who chooses to wait and refrain from acts best kept for the marriage bed. I was proud of myself.

Because I wasn’t ashamed and acknowledged it honestly it gave them an opportunity to do the same. They didn’t laugh or question my beauty. I asked them, what do you think about that and they said I like it and smiled.

If we look at ourselves askance others will follow suit. Our convictions exist for a reason and if they’re God-honoring we should embrace them. Irrespective of the world’s opinions. To thine own self be true.

I was uncertain of God’s existence but knew I was worthy nonetheless. And for some that’s needed. You have to value yourself—mistakes and all—and treat yourself kindly. Stop doubting, blaming and punishing yourself. It’s time for love.

I leave you with these words:

“A life of significance is about serving those who need your gifts, your leadership, your purpose.” —Kevin Hall

“Our rewards in life will always be in direct ratio to our service.” —Earl Nightingale

My time in the wilderness didn’t prevent others from seeing my value. Because I recognized it too. And it didn’t diminish my beauty either. It put me on the path of loveliness; a gift I share with others.

What can you give to others today?
How can you enrich your life right now?

Answer the question and do those things and continue doing them. Adding more as the years pass. You’ll find the things that bothered you aren’t so bothersome anymore. You’ll see yourself beyond the flaws and appreciate the facets.

When you love yourself. Really and truly love yourself. You’re ready for what follows.

~bella

 

[Juan777]

T Now if you want to sacrifice your body's reproductive capacity for God's kingdom purposes, that's great, but please don't do it out of shame or guilt over past misdeeds, or because you can't find a suitable girlfriend. That doesn't really work as giving yourself up anyway, because you're not being honest with God.

The first step to dealing with all of this is to be honest about what you want. Mr. DragonFox has been honest - he wants to be married. You may want to remain single because you think it is more effective for God's kingdom purposes if you do. But don't remain single because of your previous sexual experiences as an unbeliever, because that's the wrong reason.

Exactly. That is precisely what it means to be a Christian incel.