280 Weeks are Determined

[BABerean2]

Here is my chart of the olivet discourse.
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Here is my view of the rapture timing.

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compared to the pre-trib rapture timing view.


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Any chart based on a future 70th week of Daniel cannot be correct.

See Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18, which prove a time period when the Gospel was taken "first" to the Jews, before Paul took the Gospel to the Gentiles.


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[Douggg]

See Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18, which prove a time period when the Gospel was taken "first" to the Jews, before Paul took the Gospel to the Gentiles.

irrelavent.

The vision in Daniel 9:20-23 that Gabriel referred to is the one in Daniel 8 regarding the vision of the transgression of desolation by the little horn during time of the end. The little horn is the prince who shall come.

The 69 weeks of Daniel 9 are complete. Messiah the Prince arriving in Jerusalem in John 12:12-15 on Psalms Sunday, Jesus hailed as the King of Israel, coming in the name of the Lord. 4 days later Jesus was crucified, cutoff.

The prince who shall come will confirm the covenant with many for 7 years - the 70th week, when stopping of the daily sacrifice and the transgression of desolation by the little horn will be concluded.

 

[BABerean2]

irrelavent.

Claiming the verse below is "irrelavent" to a discussion of the 70th week of Daniel is a "boondoggle".

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.


When was the time period Paul was referring to in the verse above, and how long was that time period?


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[Douggg]

Claiming the verse below is "irrelavent" to a discussion of the 70th week of Daniel is a "boondoggle".

I am sorry but that is my word and you can't use it. Especially if it does not apply.

When was the time period Paul was referring to in the verse above, and how long was that time period?

Irrelavent to the 70 weeks in Daniel 9. The 69 weeks have been completed. The 70th week remains. Confirmation of the covenant for 7 years is the Hakhel by the Antichrist, the King of Israel/messiah coming in his own name.

Hakhel - Wikipedia

The term Hakhel (Hebrew הקהל) refers to a biblical commandment of assembling all Jewish men, women and children, as well as "strangers" to assemble and hear the reading of the Torah by the king of Israel once every seven years.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Matthew 24:31 is after Jesus has returned to this earth, right?

No, it's when He's "in the air" as Paul talks about in 1 Thess 4:13-17.

The gathering is from the earth and from heaven, as can be seen in the parallel verse to Matthew 24:31, which is Mark 13:27. The only way to make sense of that is by reading 1 Thess 4:13-17 which says that "those who have fallen asleep", which are "the dead in Christ" are coming with Jesus (1 Thess 4:14) when He comes. That's the souls of the dead in Christ who are in heaven now. They are coming to be united with their "changed" bodies (1 Cor 15:51-54) after their bodies are resurrected.

Those "who are alive and remain" are the ones gathered from the earth. And they all will be caught up together to meet the Lord in the air.

 

[Timtofly]

I have seen this question come up several times but haven’t seen any convincing answers.

What is going to be used to determine who is a Jew? DNA? Citizenship in Israel? Can someone just declare that they are a Jew?

Angels sent from God. Revelation 7:2-3

2 I saw another angel coming up from the east with a seal from the living God, and he shouted to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea,
3 “Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads!”

The angel says, "we have sealed". Why does everything have to be symbolic. If God is sending an angel to earth to do a task, then that angel is coming to earth to do that task.

What if these 144K are all 18 year old males. Would you object to God using 18 year old males? Do you think in this perverted generation God is going to find 144K 40 year old virgins? Which is harder to find, Jews or virgins? Should we lower the age to 12 to be on the safe side?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Here is my chart of the olivet discourse.
View attachment 288665

Here is my view of the rapture timing.

View attachment 288666

compared to the pre-trib rapture timing view.


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Thanks, but I'm able to comprehend what you believe by your words. No offense, but I have no interest in viewing your charts.

 

[grafted branch]

For example, Revelation 12:1-6 describes a woman giving birth to a son and having to flee to a safe place for 1260 days. In its simple fulfillment it refers to Mary and the 1260 refers to their flight to Egypt, a period of two to three years. (Rev. 12:4-6, Matt. 2:13-21)

I disagree with part of your view on Revelation 12. I do agree that in Revelation 12:6 it’s referring to Mary and the flight to Egypt (I also agree that this could be a simple fulfillment with a “dual” fulfillment yet to occur).

Where I disagree is that I think Revelation 12:6 and Revelation 12:14 are both referring to Mary’s flight. The serpent casts water as a flood out of his mouth; I associate with Herod who sends forth and slays all the male children in Bethlehem 2 years old and under. When the earth helps the woman by swallowing up the flood; I associated with the death of Herod. In verse 17 the dragon makes war with the remnant of her seed. Here is where it does appear that “her” is referring to Israel, however depending on how Genesis 3:15 is viewed concerning “her seed” can impact a person’s view on this verse. I’m of the opinion that a woman does not have seed so I think “her” is still referring to Mary.

So setting aside our differences I would like to know if you see any problems or potential problems with Mary’s flight being exactly 1,260 days.

Also, a bit off the topic of the OP …

I have been looking at something for quite some time and would like your opinion. I see Satan and Christ having a symmetry concerning their timelines (like the timeline you have). For example I think both Christ and Satan had access to earth and Heaven. At the time of Christs birth both Satan and Christ are on earth only (Satan is cast out of heaven). After the cross Christ is seated in heaven while Satan is bound in the pit. At the end of the 1,000 years would be a questionable break in the symmetry because it only states that Satan is loosed from the pit and no reference is given about Christ. However it could be argued that in Revelation 19, when Christ comes on the white horse, that this is tied to the battle at that time.

So have you come across this type of symmetry while working on your timelines?

 

[grafted branch]

What if these 144K are all 18 year old males. Would you object to God using 18 year old males? Do you think in this perverted generation God is going to find 144K 40 year old virgins? Which is harder to find, Jews or virgins? Should we lower the age to 12 to be on the safe side?

Which is harder to find, Jews or virgins?

This still doesn't answer the question of how or by what metric God will use to determine who is a Jew.

 

[Timtofly]

And Jesus made it very clear that the coming of the Son of Man would occur "after the tribulation of those days"

Are those literal days, or just symbolic of the last 6000 years which to God are just days? If you claim 1000 can be anything, then it seems "those days" can be anything as well. In fact 1000 is more specific in Revelation 20, than "those days" in Matthew.

 

[Timtofly]

This still doesn't answer the question of how or by what metric God will use to determine who is a Jew.

God knows everything about us. Metrics that we our selves have not even discovered. It is not that humans have to figure this out. God already knows. You really think God is not capable of seeing every family tree of Adam's lineage? The mormons think, with computers and research, they can figure it all out. God already knew before the beginning of creation. Jeremiah 1:5, Isaiah 44 and 49, all verses of God keeping tract and having a hand in who is born to whom.

 

[grafted branch]

God knows everything about us. Metrics that we our selves have not even discovered. It is not that humans have to figure this out. God already knows. You really think God is not capable of seeing every family tree of Adam's lineage? The mormons think, with computers and research, they can figure it all out. God already knew before the beginning of creation. Jeremiah 1:5, Isaiah 44 and 49, all verses of God keeping tract and having a hand in who is born to whom.

Ok, so we aren’t going to know how God chooses who is a Jew and who isn’t because God will use a metric unknown to us. Since Satan and his ministers come as an angel of light, what happens if there are 144,001 virgins who all claim to be the 144,000? What metric would you use to determine who is the false one?

 

[Douggg]

Thanks, but I'm able to comprehend what you believe by your words. No offense, but I have no interest in viewing your charts.

No offense, but I don't think you can comprehend what I believe by my words. There are too many factors involved in what I believe. For example, I don't think you are aware of the difference of the transgression of desolation and the abomination of desolation.

I often ask others for their 70th week 7 year timeline chart - because when a person starts putting together a chart, it forces them to have to organize their thoughts in a comprehensive fashion of the 7 years instead of fragments.

charts, plus words, is what works best.

 

[Douggg]

No, it's when He's "in the air" as Paul talks about in 1 Thess 4:13-17.

In Matthew 24:31, it does not say that Jesus is in the air.

In Matthew 24:30 Jesus comes in power and glory. And the world knows that he is coming by the sign of the Son of Man in heaven before hand - by which the kings of the earth assemble their armies to make war on him, which takes time.

In 1Thessalonians4:13-18, it is Jesus Himself who resurrects the dead in Christ, and translates the living in what is called the rapture.

Differently in Matthew 24:31, Jesus sends his angels and they gather the elect.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

In Matthew 24:31, it does not say that Jesus is in the air.

It also doesn't say that He's not. I get so tired of people making these kinds of weak arguments. Not every passage related to the second coming has all of the same details. There is nothing in Matthew 24:29-31/Mark 13:24-27/Luke 21:25-28 that contradicts anything said in 1 Thess 4:13-18.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

No offense, but I don't think you can comprehend what I believe by my words.

Then that shows how untrustworthy your doctrine is. Scripture is not meant to be so convoluted that it can't even be explained without charts.

 

[Christian Gedge]

Where I disagree is that I think Revelation 12:6 and Revelation 12:14 are both referring to Mary’s flight. The serpent casts water as a flood out of his mouth; I associate with Herod who sends forth and slays all the male children in Bethlehem 2 years old and under. When the earth helps the woman by swallowing up the flood; I associated with the death of Herod. In verse 17 the dragon makes war with the remnant of her seed. Here is where it does appear that “her” is referring to Israel, however depending on how Genesis 3:15 is viewed concerning “her seed” can impact a person’s view on this verse. I’m of the opinion that a woman does not have seed so I think “her” is still referring to Mary.

Fair enough. We both recognise the symbolic nature of those verses and that's the main thing.

So setting aside our differences I would like to know if you see any problems or potential problems with Mary’s flight being exactly 1,260 days.

Joseph and Mary came home after Herod died in 4 BC. An exact 1260 days before that would make Jesus' birth 7-8 BC. That seems too early. It fouls with his 'about 30' age at the start of his ministry. (Luke 3:23) Its better, IMO, to view these old calendar numbers as meaning a short undefined period.

I have been looking at something for quite some time and would like your opinion. I see Satan and Christ having a symmetry concerning their timelines (like the timeline you have).

Well he has a program of course - to steal and kill and destroy - but whether there is any "symmetry" about it I don't know. Maybe others have some thoughts?

 

[Douggg]

It also doesn't say that He's not. I get so tired of people making these kinds of weak arguments. Not every passage related to the second coming has all of the same details. There is nothing in Matthew 24:29-31/Mark 13:24-27/Luke 21:25-28 that contradicts anything said in 1 Thess 4:13-18.

There is no resurrection of the dead in Matthew 24:31. There is no translation of the living in Matthew 24:31. There is no element of suddenness in Matthew 24:31. There is no element of immensity in Matthew 24:31.

Plus Matthew 24:31 the gathering of the elect is found in Ezekiel 39:28, Jesus Himself speaking in the text.

 

[Douggg]

Then that shows how untrustworthy your doctrine is. Scripture is not meant to be so convoluted that it can't even be explained without charts.

A chart is nothing more than a picture of how things fit together.

Could you imaging a home builder contractor building a house for a client without a set of drawings and specifications ? The drawings are like a chart of how things fit together and the overall picture. And the specifications are like the words.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

There is no resurrection of the dead in Matthew 24:31.

Where does it say there isn't a resurrection of the dead there? If this type of weak argument was valid, it would mean that it's not possible to relate any 2 passages of scripture together unless they each had all of the same details.

But, there had to be a resurrection there because when you keep reading further into Matthew 25:31-46 it shows that the day of judgment occurs on the day that Christ comes with His angels. There won't be a judgment without the dead being raised first. Matthew 25:31-46 makes it clear that the angels are gathering the elect to appear before Christ on the throne of judgment and the unbelievers will be there as well.