20 major reasons to reject the Premillennial doctrine

[sovereigngrace]

I carefully study the words and context of the Prophesies, then write explanations and comments, using other verses and modern knowledge to support what is said.

No you do not!

 

[keras]

Where is there any mention of any release of Satan and his demons? It is not there. This relates to the new earth, not some future millennium. I am at a loss to see where you think this teaches Premil. Where does it say that Satan will be released 1,000 years after Christ's Coming? Where does it say that devils will be released 1,000 years after Christ's Coming?

You have a very peculiar idea of Eternity. Bodies strewn around, hell fires flaming and people coming from the nations, to worship the Lord, as per Zechariah 14:16-21.
Read Revelation 21 and 22 for a better description of Eternity.

Revelation 20 is the best for what happens to Satan during the Millennium and after. The earlier Prophets did not need to spell that out.

 

[keras]

No you do not!

Because what the Prophets said doesn't fit with your beliefs, and you have no proper rebuttal, you are driven to make foolish comments. Sad.

 

[sovereigngrace]

You have a very peculiar idea of Eternity. Bodies strewn around, hell fires flaming and people coming from the nations, to worship the Lord, as per Zechariah 14:16-21.
Read Revelation 21 and 22 for a better description of Eternity.

Revelation 20 is the best for what happens to Satan during the Millennium and after. The earlier Prophets did not need to spell that out.

Really? There are only two peoples recognized in the book of Revelation, as in the rest of Scripture. One inherits eternal bliss on the new glorified earth and the other inherits eternal torment in the lake of fire.

Revelation 20:15: “And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."

Revelation 21:7-8: “He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.”

Revelation 21:22-27: “And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.”

Revelation 22:14-15: “Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.”

Here, near the end of Revelation, God is simply summing up the whole unfolding narrative before us showing us the great eternal division between darkness and light, death and life, the wicked on the righteous. They cannot cohabit in eternity.

 

[keras]

Really? There are only two peoples recognized in the book of Revelation, as in the rest of Scripture. One inherits eternal bliss on the new glorified earth and the other inherits eternal torment in the lake of fire.

Agreed.
But what you avoid, dismiss or just cannot see; is what must happen before that state of Eternal bliss.
Satan will have a final time when he can again deceive people. It will be the last test of our faith, at the end of the Millennium. Revelation 20:7-10

 

[sovereigngrace]

Agreed.
But what you avoid, dismiss or just cannot see; is what must happen before that state of Eternal bliss.
Satan will have a final time when he can again deceive people. It will be the last test of our faith, at the end of the Millennium. Revelation 20:7-10

We are just about there.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Agreed.
But what you avoid, dismiss or just cannot see; is what must happen before that state of Eternal bliss.
Satan will have a final time when he can again deceive people. It will be the last test of our faith, at the end of the Millennium. Revelation 20:7-10

Can you actually start addressing the rebuttals here instead of constantly avoiding the issues?

 

[keras]

We are just about there.

There is; soon to happen - the great test of our faith.
As described in Revelation 6:12-17, 1 Corinthians 3:12-15

The test at the end of the Millennium is not what comes next.

Can you actually start addressing the rebuttals here instead of constantly avoiding the issues?

The issue is: Is Revelation 20 a literal narrative of events after Jesus returns, or is it just a fictional, allegorical story?
I believe the former and I support it with scriptural proofs.

The theory that we are in the Millennium now is unsupportable, by scripture and by how the world has been and still is; since Jesus first Advent.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Sure, but we disagree on what the Lord has planned for our future.
I assume you mean Isaiah 66:15-17? ALL of Isaiah 66 is about the time before Jesus Returns.

No, I was talking about your reference to Isaiah 29:9-12.

You seriously, badly; make scriptures like Isaiah 66; meaningless.

I absolutely do not do that. And I wasn't even referring to Isaiah 66. All you had to do was go back and look at the previous discussion and you would've seen that.

Those verses, excepting Rev 19:11, are not about the glorious Return.
You have avoided my proof of he Jesus 'comes' as the Son of Man and resets our civilization by fire. His Return is as the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Two different events.

What proof? You have proof of nothing except that you are not able to discern which passages are about His return and which are not.

Peter gives the sequence of events. AFTER the Millennium, the NH,NE comes. Revelation 21:1

Where does Peter say anything about the Millennium?

I view all the Prophetic Word as a whole narrative. It does make sense to me. It WILL happen as the Prophets have told us.

Yes, things will happen as scripture indicates, but not as you interpret it. You place the timing of things that had to do with the first coming at the second coming instead. You don't allow the New Testament to show you the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecies.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

The issue is: Is Revelation 20 a literal narrative of events after Jesus returns, or is it just a fictional, allegorical story?

That is not the issue at all. No one is saying that Revelation 20 is fictional.

Amils believe it describes reality (not fiction) in a figurative and symbolic way, but it's not fiction. It talks about Satan being bound. Amils don't believe that's fictional. We just understanding the nature of his binding differently than Premils. It talks about Jesus reigning. Amils don't believe His reign is fictional. We just understand it differently than Premils. And so on.

 

[sovereigngrace]

There is; soon to happen - the great test of our faith.
As described in Revelation 6:12-17, 1 Corinthians 3:12-15

The test at the end of the Millennium is not what comes next.

The issue is: Is Revelation 20 a literal narrative of events after Jesus returns, or is it just a fictional, allegorical story?
I believe the former and I support it with scriptural proofs.

The theory that we are in the Millennium now is unsupportable, by scripture and by how the world has been and still is; since Jesus first Advent.

Same season. The test at the end of the millennium corresponds with the test before the second coming.

 

[keras]

No, I was talking about your reference to Isaiah 29:9-12.

Many prophesies tell us how even Christians will be unable to understand the Prophetic Word. Jesus said how the wise and learned won't be able to discern God's Plans for the end times.
This seems to be just what the problem is here. People with beliefs taught to them by teachers with high qualifications, but who cannot know the truth. Proved by the lack of consensus among them all.
However; Daniel 12:10 does say a few people will understand.

I don't claim to know it all, but having intensively studied Bible Prophecy for 12 years and before that as well and writing over 800 articles on that subject, I can claim to have a fair knowledge of what God has planned for our future.
Some things that that I have not seen or even considered; are the rapture to heaven of the Church and the idea that we are in the Millennium now. They are false theories.

Same season. The test at the end of the millennium corresponds with the test before the second coming.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 and Revelation 20:7-9 are two different events.
Just a simple reading of those scriptures proves it.

 

[sovereigngrace]

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 and Revelation 20:7-9 are two different events.
Just a simple reading of those scriptures proves it.

In your opinion.

 

[keras]

In your opinion.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15, is the soon to happen; test for us Christians. 1 Peter 4:12
Revelation 20:7-10, is the gathering and the demise of the army of people deceived by Satan, after the Millennium reign of King Jesus.

Thinking they are the same is so clearly wrong, it puts all of your beliefs on prophecy in question.

 

[sovereigngrace]

1 Corinthians 3:11-15, is the soon to happen; test for us Christians. 1 Peter 4:12
Revelation 20:7-10, is the gathering and the demise of the army of people deceived by Satan, after the Millennium reign of King Jesus.

Thinking they are the same is so clearly wrong, it puts all of your beliefs on prophecy in question.

• 1 Corinthians 3:11-15 is judgment day. It is the end!
• 1 Peter 4:12 is speaking about the glorification that occurs when Jesus comes and the bondage of corruption is moved forever. It is the end!
• Revelation 20:7-10 is speaking about a period of trial that occurs before the second coming, which is the end!

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Many prophesies tell us how even Christians will be unable to understand the Prophetic Word.

Again, Isaiah 29:9-12 is not talking about Christians who can't understand the Prophetic Word. The next verse says this:

Isaiah 29:13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

This is not a description of Christians. This is a description of people who pretend to be Christians, but are not. When you think of Jesus's parables they were told with the intention of being understood only by Christians and not by unbelievers. This idea that only a special few are meant to understand Bible prophecy is utterly false.

Jesus said how the wise and learned won't be able to discern God's Plans for the end times.
This seems to be just what the problem is here. People with beliefs taught to them by teachers with high qualifications, but who cannot know the truth.

My beliefs come from my own studies, so what you're saying here doesn't apply to me. You're talking to me. I don't care about how other people come to their beliefs.

Proved by the lack of consensus among them all.
However; Daniel 12:10 does say a few people will understand.

No, it doesn't say that. This is the reason you don't actual quote scripture and just throw verses out there. The text never supports what you claim that the verses are saying. No wonder you don't quote them.

Daniel 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

Where does this say that few will understand? It doesn't. It says none of the wicked shall understand. It also says "the wise shall understand". The reference here to "the wise" are to the "many" that "shall be purified". Maybe that's relatively few compared to the wicked, and obviously not all believers have the same understanding of prophecy, but it's not literally few who understand as you're trying to claim. It does not say that in the text at all.

I don't claim to know it all, but having intensively studied Bible Prophecy for 12 years and before that as well and writing over 800 articles on that subject, I can claim to have a fair knowledge of what God has planned for our future.

The amount of time you spend studying Bible prophecy doesn't correlate with how well you are interpreting the prophecies. Plenty of other people, including myself, have studied it just as much as you and draw different conclusions than you do.

Some things that that I have not seen or even considered; are the rapture to heaven of the Church and the idea that we are in the Millennium now. They are false theories.

I don't know if you're implying here that you think I believe that we are taken to heaven at the rapture, but I don't.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 and Revelation 20:7-9 are two different events.
Just a simple reading of those scriptures proves it.

That's your problem. You only check the surface of scripture instead of digging deeper to find the truth.

 

[ShineyDays2]

However; Daniel 12:10 does say a few people will understand.

Re: your post #5412. The way you phrased it is NOT an accurate reflection of the text in Daniel 12:10. The REAL text does NOT say that "only a FEW people will understand" and therefore are not purified.

The text says that "MANY shall purify themselves white....and they are the ones who "are wise and understand" while the unsaved don't understand.

Secondly, I have issues with your other verses too which are similar to SG's post above.

1 Cor. 3:11-15...11)For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12) But if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw; 13)each man's work will be made manifest: for the day shall disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire; and the fire itself shall test what sort of work each one has done. 14)If the work which any man has built on the foundation [of gold, silver, or precious stones] survives, he will receive a reward. 15)If any man's work [of wood, hay, or straw] is burned up, he will suffer loss: though he himself shall be saved; but only as through fire. (Matthew Henry: "There are others, whose corrupt opinions and doctrines, or vain inventions and usages in the worship of God, shall be made known, disowned, and rejected, in that day."
​

This is plainly meant of a figurative fire, not of a real one; for what real fire can consume religious rites or doctrines?

(Gill's Expositon..." Christ is the foundation of the Covenant of Grace, and of eternal salvation.)
​

I agree with both of these well-known commentators.

1 Peter 4:12... "Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you...." ​

The Hebrew turned Christians of that era felt as though they should not have to endure a life of sorrow and persecution in the world after having attached themselves to the Messiah. That is the same today as it was then; many new Christians are baffled when they tell their unsaved friends that they need to be saved too and they then get shunned by them.

Rev 20:7-10... 7)And when the thousand years are ended, Satan shall be loosed from his prison, 8)and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, that is Gog and Magog, to gather [the nations] for battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9)And [Satan's army] marched up over the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city: and fire came down from heaven and consumed [Satan's army]. 10) and the devil who had deceived [the nations] was thrown into the lake of fire and sulphur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.....
​

Notice that..

A- Satan has his army but
B- the saints are protected because they are in "the beloved city" [of the New Jerusalem].
C-the beast and the false prophet "are tormented day and night FOREVER AND EVER [in eternity]."​

This can only be the "second coming" of Christ at the end of the ages which is fought in heaven and not on earth. The "saints" are in heaven so there is no need of a literal camp to run to!!!

 

[keras]

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 is judgment day. It is the end!

Your unsupported opinion.

1 Peter 4:12 is speaking about the glorification that occurs when Jesus comes and the bondage of corruption is moved forever. It is the end!

Peter is saying we must stand firm thru all the testing to come.

Revelation 20:7-10 is speaking about a period of trial that occurs before the second coming, which is the end!

Jesus Returned in Revelation 19:11. What happened to the ungodly peoples before the Return, as per Rev 6:12 to Rev 19:10, is quite different than what will happen to those who rebel at the end of the Millennium.

 

[keras]

This idea that only a special few are meant to understand Bible prophecy is utterly false.

How then can you explain the multiplicity of theories and doctrines among Christians about what God Plans for the end times?
We two Christians are a prime example.

My beliefs come from my own studies, so what you're saying here doesn't apply to me. You're talking to me. I don't care about how other people come to their beliefs.

We will soon see who is right.
You do use the ECF's and other Bible scholars to promote AMill.

Where does this say that few will understand? It doesn't.

Translation differences: ...only the wise leaders will understand. REBible.
'leaders', are only a few.
The bulk of the Church are just dumb sheeple, regarding the end times.

The amount of time you spend studying Bible prophecy doesn't correlate with how well you are interpreting the prophecies. Plenty of other people, including myself, have studied it just as much as you and draw different conclusions than you do.

Right, but much time is required to properly study all of the Prophetic Word.
It is whether a person has a really open mind and is willing to let the Holy Spirit direct their thoughts. Isaiah 29:9-12 says how the Lord will lock people into their false beliefs. Beliefs obtained from false teachers and mistaken assumptions.

That's your problem. You only check the surface of scripture instead of digging deeper to find the truth.

This is a false accusation. You have made no attempt to dig deeper into my writings about what the Prophets actually said.

 

[sovereigngrace]

This is a false accusation. You have made no attempt to dig deeper into my writings about what the Prophets actually said.

Please do not go there. This is how you approach the rest of our presentations.