20 major reasons to reject the Premillennial doctrine

[Spiritual Jew]

Look at how you are arguing, though, one sided. You argue that if my interpretation of Zechariah 14 is correct, then why doesn't the NT support it?

Yes. What is your answer to that question?

Why aren't you also asking, if your interpretation of the NT is correct, why isn't Zechariah 14 supporting it?

You are the one who thinks that Zechariah 14 doesn't support my interpretation of the NT, not me. Did you not read everything I said? I'm saying that the NT shines light on the OT prophecies. You're acting as if it's the other way around.

Isn't the idea to not pit the OT against the NT, but instead, have these two testaments squaring?

Yes, but the NT takes precedence because the NT was written to shine light on the OT and reveal things that were a mystery and hidden in the OT. Just read Ephesians 3 for a good example of what I'm talking about.

You don't seem to want to try and do that in this case.

I'm doing what I talked about which is allowing the NT to interpret the OT for me. I spelled this out to you and you're still not getting it. You want the OT to interpret the NT for you instead.

No matter how you choose to interpret the NT, none of that is making any of Zechariah 14 go away. None of that is solving anything recorded in Zechariah 14. None of that is squaring both testaments. You apparently think the NT trumps the OT, and that all that matters, all that counts, is what the NT says,and not what the OT says as well.

I don't know exactly what you mean by the NT trumping the OT, but I made it quite clear that I believe the NT shines light on and clarifies what the purposely obscure OT prophecies are about and I gave examples of this.

Did you read the examples I gave? Do you think that the fact that there will be no more death, sorrow, crying or pain when the new heavens and new earth are ushered in is made clear in the OT? No, but it is made clear in the NT. So, we should base our interpretation of Isaiah 65:17-25 on what is clearly taught in the NT about the new heavens and new earth.

Another example I gave was how the OT prophecies regarding the promises made to Abraham and his seed did not make it clear that the promises were made to Christ and those who belong to Christ, but the NT makes that clear (Galatians 3:16,29).

Similarly, we should interpret a passage like Zechariah 14 based on a doctrinal foundation that we form from the NT.

You act as if we can just interpret OT prophecies in isolation without any need of the aid of the NT. In that case, why was the NT even written if everything is already clearly explained in the OT?

When I think what matters is, what do both testaments combined say.

If you want to keep using your flawed method of interpreting OT prophecies, that's your choice. But, I will continue to interpret OT prophecies in light of the NT.

How can prophecies, regardless what sense they might be meaning, not involve chronology? How can Zechariah 14 be void of chronology? For example. How can verses 16-19 be meaning before verse 2 is fulfilled first? How can verse 12 be meaning before verse 2 is fulfilled first? So on and so on. This alone already undeniably proves that chronology is relevant in Zechariah 14, or at least it undeniably proves it to someone trying to agree with the text rather than trying to fight with it instead.

LOL. When did I say that there's no chronology in the passage? What I'm saying is that I form the foundation of my doctrine from the NT, and OT prophecies need to not contradict what I see clearly taught in the NT. That's my approach and I believe it's a wise one. If you think otherwise, so be it.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

You reject the truth about the Millennium just as most pre-mill do then. Neither acknowledge the resurrection to an incorruptible permanent physical body.

So, we're supposed to believe that you are the only one who is correct about all this? Can you tell me why God would choose to only reveal the truth about this to you and no one else? What makes you so special exactly?

So chapter breaks only work when you want them to? Revelation 19 and 20?

Is that what I said? No, I did not. Do you think the chapter breaks in our English Bibles were inspired by God or something?

I gave an example of where I believe a chapter break was not appropriate. Do you believe that Paul was talking about a different subject entirely in 1 Thess 5 than he had just been talking about at the end of 1 Thess 4?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Paul did not say 1 Thess 5:2-3 would happen when Jesus Returns.
You DID add the Return to Pauls Words. Bad you!

I did not! I showed the context of what he was talking about which was clearly the return of Christ. I pointed out how 1 Thessalonians 4:13-5:6 is all about the day of His return.

The way you look at things we could all accuse each other of adding things to the text with our interpretations. You claim that scriptures are saying things that they don't explicitly say all the time. We all do that. And that's okay. Sometimes, things aren't explicitly stated but they are implied. That just a case of interpreting how we understand the text, not a a case of purposely trying to add to the text. That's all I'm doing. So, stop making false accusations against me or you will be reported.

Jesus does not Return like a thief, the sudden destruction refers to the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster. Isaiah 29:5-6

You're really showing your ignorance here. The following passages make it clear that He will return like a thief, which means He will return suddenly and unexpectedly.

Matthew 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. 43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Revelation 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

These passages talk about Jesus returning like a thief and about how it's important to be alert and to be watching and to be ready for His return which is exactly what passages like 1 Thess 5:1-6 and 2 Peter 3:10-13 talk about.

Quite correct and we must believe in all of the Bible.
But AMill believers must play fast and loose with scripture to make their theory work.
Which is a theory that denies Jesus His reward and we humans the experience of living under a truly beneficent King.

That's nonsense. All you are able to do is just give baseless opinions. You are never able to give any kind of convincing argument to back up your claims using scripture.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

[STAFF EDITED DELETED QUOTE]

Paul never said anything about the Return in 1 Thess 5:3. You falsely assume it, that is all.

He talked about His return in 1 Thess 4:13-18 and he did not change the subject in 1 Thess 5.

My posts provide scriptural proofs.

Are they hidden then? I sure don't see them. Just randomly referencing passages here and there does not prove anything. You do nothing to show exactly how the passages you reference support your view. How can you expect to be taken seriously in that case?

Wrong beliefs are not a salvation issue, but promoting and teaching them is a serious matter. James 3:1

That's right. So, you should heed what that verse says and consider not holding on to your wrong beliefs any longer.

 

[keras]

He talked about His return in 1 Thess 4:13-18 and he did not change the subject in 1 Thess 5.

But Paul does not refer to the Return in 1 Thess 5.
We know it is about the Lord's terrible Day of fiery wrath, because the actual Return of Jesus is not like a thief in the night.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

But Paul does not refer to the Return in 1 Thess 5.

I've pointed out twice now that 1 Thess 4:13-5:6 is all about the return of Christ. There is no basis for thinking that what is described in 1 Thess 5 is not directly related to what is described in 1 Thess 4:13-18. Unfortunately, the translators putting a chapter break after 1 Thess 4:18 has caused some people to think that 1 Thess 4:13-18 is a different event entirely from 1 Thess 5:1-6, but it's not.

We know it is about the Lord's terrible Day of fiery wrath, because the actual Return of Jesus is not like a thief in the night.

Yes, it is. You're denying the obvious.

Revelation 16:15 “Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed.”

Jesus Himself said He is returning like a thief. What more do you need? You're just denying something that is very obvious here. How can you expect to understand the deeper things when you can't even understand something as simple as this?

 

[Timtofly]

So, we're supposed to believe that you are the only one who is correct about all this? Can you tell me why God would choose to only reveal the truth about this to you and no one else? What makes you so special exactly?

Is that what I said? No, I did not. Do you think the chapter breaks in our English Bibles were inspired by God or something?

I gave an example of where I believe a chapter break was not appropriate. Do you believe that Paul was talking about a different subject entirely in 1 Thess 5 than he had just been talking about at the end of 1 Thess 4?

No and neither was John in Revelation.

 

[keras]

I've pointed out twice now that 1 Thess 4:13-5:6 is all about the return of Christ. There is no basis for thinking that what is described in 1 Thess 5 is not directly related to what is described in 1 Thess 4:13-18. Unfortunately, the translators putting a chapter break after 1 Thess 4:18 has caused some people to think that 1 Thess 4:13-18 is a different event entirely from 1 Thess 5:1-6, but it's not.

This is entirely your mistaken opinion.
Paul is not prophesying about the Return in 1 Thess 5, proved by it being a unexpected event, which the actual Return will not be.

Revelation 16:15 is an interposition, in brackets in my Bible and it refers to His ' 'coming' in His fiery wrath with sudden destruction for the wicked.

 

[sovereigngrace]

This is entirely your mistaken opinion.
Paul is not prophesying about the Return in 1 Thess 5, proved by it being a unexpected event, which the actual Return will not be.

Revelation 16:15 is an interposition, in brackets in my Bible and it refers to His ' 'coming' in His fiery wrath with sudden destruction for the wicked.

You are mistaking opinions for facts. You are clearly wrong on this. All this to justify your mistaken opinion of Revelation 20.

 

[sovereigngrace]

[STAFF EDITED DELETED QUOTE]

Your post proves nothing, but avoidance. Please address what SJ is saying.

 

[keras]

You are mistaking opinions for facts. You are clearly wrong on this. All this to justify your mistaken opinion of Revelation 20.

Anyone who makes an opinion about Revelation 20, is wrong.
That Chapter is clear and unambiguous. You either believe the plain narrative or you don't.
Any theory that Revelation 20 doesn't mean just what it says; is error.

Even Satan being chained up could be literal, but we know Satan is a spirit, so the chaining is easily understood as allegorical.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Anyone who makes an opinion about Revelation 20, is wrong.
That Chapter is clear and unambiguous. You either believe the plain narrative or you don't.
Any theory that Revelation 20 doesn't mean just what it says; is error.

Even Satan being chained up could be literal, but we know Satan is a spirit, so the chaining is easily understood as allegorical.

No. It doesn't mean what you say. It doesn't contradict numerous climactic Scripture, as you would have it. Also it begins at the real first resurrection (Christ's) not the Premil one 2000 years+ later. It correlates with multiple Scripture that shows the binding and defeat of Satan 2000 years ago.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Anyone who makes an opinion about Revelation 20, is wrong.
That Chapter is clear and unambiguous. You either believe the plain narrative or you don't.
Any theory that Revelation 20 doesn't mean just what it says; is error.

That's like saying anyone who doesn't think that the beast is a literal beast and doesn't believe that the literal beast has seven literal heads and ten literal crowns on its ten literal horns doesn't accept that Revelation 13:1 means just what it says.

Does the following mean just what it says?

Revelation 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

This passage of speaking of a current reality. Compare the above to Revelation 20:6 to see the timing of when Christ reigns and when His followers reign with Him in His kingdom as priests to serve Him and His Father.

Even Satan being chained up could be literal, but we know Satan is a spirit, so the chaining is easily understood as allegorical.

If the chaining is allegorical then why would you assume that it has something to do with him being completely incapacitated? Only a literal chaining would imply that.

 

[keras]

This is no way to talk to a fellow poster.

There was no personal criticism intended.
My intention is to get people with wrong beliefs to reconsider and I provide scriptures to help with that.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

[STAFF EDITED DELETED QUOTE]

If interpreting a passage saying that Jesus IS the ruler of the kings of the earth and that He HAS MADE us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father in present tense means I'm gullible then I have no problem with being gullible.

There was no personal criticism intended.
My intention is to get people with wrong beliefs to reconsider and I provide scriptures to help with that.

LOL

 

[sovereigngrace]

There was no personal criticism intended.
My intention is to get people with wrong beliefs to reconsider and I provide scriptures to help with that.

That is not true. Your attitude has changed no one on these boards. You push people further away with your chides.

 

[keras]

That is not true. Your attitude has changed no one on these boards. You push people further away with your chides.

I point out Prophetic truths.
At least, by reading my posts, an alternative is presented and when the end times events commence, you will know the disastrous world changer came from the Lord.

 

[ewq1938]