2 Witnesses question

[Marilyn C]

The length of the Tribulation is not given in Revelation for a reason. John's account will never square with the OT. John saw the days shortened that were prophecied. Jesus declares these days shortened, years prior to John even being on Patmos. What Daniel saw was already changed when Jesus made the declaration in the OD.

Hi Tim,

Daniel wrote concerning the completion of the 70th week of years - 490 years with the last 7 years to be completed before the Temple was cleansed.

Now concerning the judgments to the rebellious nations of the world, THAT TIME IS SHORTENED. it is 6 years and 11 months.

 

[Douggg]

Ezekiel 39 clearly states in verse 11, "The valley of Hamongog."

"As they go through the land, if anyone sees a human bone, he will put a marker next to it until the gravediggers have buried it in the Valley of Hamon-Gog."

Tim, as I had written in a previous post v1-16 is about the Gog-Magog event. v16 ends the prophecy about that Gog-Magog event. Gog-Magog is not mentioned any more after v 16.

v17-20 is 7 years later and is the Armageddon event.

 

[Douggg]

he length of the Tribulation is not given in Revelation for a reason. John's account will never square with the OT. John saw the days shortened that were prophecied. Jesus declares these days shortened, years prior to John even being on Patmos. What Daniel saw was already changed when Jesus made the declaration in the OD.

Revelation does square with the end times prophecies in the OT, it has to.

No prophecy time frames are shortened in either the NT or OT.

Jesus did not declare the days of the great tribulation would be reduced in number. You are misunderstanding what Jesus meant by "shortened". He meant the timeframe of the great tribulation was "limited" so it would come short of destroying all life on earth.

The 7 year 70th week is in Daniel 9:27 and is the 7 years following the Gog-Magog event in Ezekiel 39.

The 2300 time of the end days of the little horn person in Daniel 8 fit within the 7 years.

Everything fits together without altering any of the timeframes.... when the order of events are properly understood.

 

[Douggg]

Hi Tim,

Daniel wrote concerning the completion of the 70th week of years - 490 years with the last 7 years to be completed before the Temple was cleansed.

Now concerning the judgments to the rebellious nations of the world, THAT TIME IS SHORTENED. it is 6 years and 11 months.

View attachment 301443

Marilyn, no time in the end time prophecies is reduced from what is written in the text of the bible.

The 1335 days fit within the 7 years.

 

[Timtofly]

Hi Tim,

Daniel wrote concerning the completion of the 70th week of years - 490 years with the last 7 years to be completed before the Temple was cleansed.

Now concerning the judgments to the rebellious nations of the world, THAT TIME IS SHORTENED. it is 6 years and 11 months.

View attachment 301443

The 1290 and 1335 days happened at the time of Antiochus Epiphanies. Daniel 12:11-12.

 

[Timtofly]

Hi Tim,

The Holy Spirit wrote God`s word. Thus He knew all of God`s purposes for He is part of the trinity. So nothing changes. Therefore we must be thinking amiss.

Marilyn.

What changes is what humans think they know. No one today even agrees with how Daniel's 70 weeks play out. There are a lot of opinions out there.

 

[Douggg]

The 1290 and 1335 days happened at the time of Antiochus Epiphanies. Daniel 12:11-12.

Everything in Daniel 12 is time of the end.

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

 

[Timtofly]

Tim, as I had written in a previous post v1-16 is about the Gog-Magog event. v16 ends the prophecy about that Gog-Magog event. Gog-Magog is not mentioned any more after v 16.

v17-20 is 7 years later and is the Armageddon event.

And I said, those days would be shortened, it is not a fixed 7 years later. The Second Coming changes everything. The Second Coming is not a fixed point in time, in relationship to prophecy. The days shortened is not the time prior to the Great Tribulation. It is the Great Tribulation itself that is shortened. Satan's 42 months is the fixed period of time. The longer God waits, the shorter the time between now and Satan's 42 months. The church is to be gathering in those to be saved now. For the elects sake is now. That harvest stops at the Second Coming. If the Second Coming had already happened, those people would not have been part of the church. The Tribulation would have been a full 3.5 years. Turkey has already made a move. Was the Syrian crises of the last 10 years part of prophecy or a pre-emptive move by Satan that backfired? Did that change the prophecy of Ezekiel 39, that you claim is about to happen?

 

[Timtofly]

Everything in Daniel 12 is time of the end.

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Not everything. The act of Antiochus Epiphanies stopped the daily sacrifice and there was an abomination of desolation that gave us the 1290 and 1335 days. It was still fresh in the minds of those in the first century. Those reading the gospels would understand that parts of Daniel would have been fulfilled by the first century. Even the 483 years.

 

[Douggg]

And I said, those days would be shortened, it is not a fixed 7 years later. The Second Coming changes everything. The Second Coming is not a fixed point in time, in relationship to prophecy. The days shortened is not the time prior to the Great Tribulation. It is the Great Tribulation itself that is shortened.

The great tribulation is 1335 days long. It is limited to 1335 days.

Satan's 42 months is the fixed period of time. The longer God waits, the shorter the time between now and Satan's 42 months. The church is to be gathering in those to be saved now. For the elects sake is now. That harvest stops at the Second Coming. If the Second Coming had already happened, those people would not have been part of the church. The Tribulation would have been a full 3.5 years. Turkey has already made a move. Was the Syrian crises of the last 10 years part of prophecy or a pre-emptive move by Satan that backfired? Did that change the prophecy of Ezekiel 39, that you claim is about to happen?

Tim, you need to work on your written communication skills. I cannot decipher what you wrote. You may as well be typing in Chinese words and letters.

 

[Timtofly]

Jesus did not declare the days of the great tribulation would be reduced in number. You are misunderstanding what Jesus meant by "shortened". He meant the timeframe of the great tribulation was "limited" so it would come short of destroying all life on earth.

Destroying all life on earth is the only reason for the Great Tribulation. It is the end of Adam's flesh and blood. That is why it is the final harvest and the angels are here removing souls from bodies and sending them to eternal life or damnation.

 

[Timtofly]

The great tribulation is 1335 days long. It is limited to 1335 days.

Tim, you need to work on your written communication skills. I cannot decipher what you wrote. You may as well be typing in Chinese words and letters.

We do not know the length of the Great Tribulation. Satan's 42 months is not the Great Tribulation.

The Trumpets and Thunders is the Great Tribulation. Then comes Satan's 42 months. Revelation 13 comes after the Trumpets and Thunders. Revelation 13 is not during the Trumpets and Thunders.

 

[cfposter]

Great Tribulation starts at month 6 and last 40 days ending on the 10th day of the 7th month.I'm not allowed to tell you the year in this forum. Therefore, the 1290 starts a the beginning of the 6th month. Blessed are those that come to the 1335 day - Why? because that is Tabernacles, which is why they have palms in their hands.

 

[Douggg]

We do not know the length of the Great Tribulation. Satan's 42 months is not the Great Tribulation.

There is not bible term called "Satan's 42 months". Use terms in the bible. 42 months are found in Revelation 11:2 and Revelation 13:5.

The Trumpets and Thunders is the Great Tribulation. Then comes Satan's 42 months. Revelation 13 comes after the Trumpets and Thunders. Revelation 13 is not during the Trumpets and Thunders.

the Great Tribulation is a period of time of unprecedented trouble.

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.


The 42 months in Revelation fit within the 1335 day Great Tribulation. The 42 months include the requirement to worship the image of the beast, spoken of in Revelation 13, or be put to death.

 

[Douggg]

Great Tribulation starts at month 6 and last 40 days ending on the 10th day of the 7th month.

Based on what?

 

[cfposter]

Based on what?

I just went backward from the known point instead of forward. It really is complicated since I can't explain the end point here since I'm not able to give you the date that Jesus returns in this forum due to its rules.

What many don't realize is that Tribulation already started with God's Church which happens for 40 Jubilees. However, I think there is a 40 days of Great Tribulation that occurs before and during the 2nd Coming of Jesus Christ.

1Pe_4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Of course that Judgment had to last for 40 Jubilees because Moses gave us that blueprint with 40 years of leading the congregation in the Wilderness.

Moses' ministry is a type of the First Coming of Jesus, whereas Joshua's ministry was a type of the 2nd Coming.

So if we look at Moses, we can see he started his ministry when he turned 80 years old - the is a type showing that Jesus would lead His Congregation (in the 80th Jubilee) into the Wilderness (of this world) for 40 Jubilees (types by Moses 40 years in the wilderness). Moses died at 120 years old. Jesus leads them for 40 Jubilees before coming to them in the 121st Jubilee. There are 120 Jubilees alloted to man's dominion (Genesis 6:3).

 

[Douggg]

I just went backward from the known point instead of forward. It really is complicated since I can't explain the end point here since I'm not able to give you the date that Jesus returns in this forum due to its rules.

What many don't realize is that Tribulation already started with God's Church which happens for 40 Jubilees. However, I think there is a 40 days of Great Tribulation that occurs before and during the 2nd Coming of Jesus Christ.

1Pe_4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Of course that Judgment had to last for 40 Jubilees because Moses gave us that blueprint with 40 years of leading the congregation in the Wilderness.

Moses' ministry is a type of the First Coming of Jesus, whereas Joshua's ministry was a type of the 2nd Coming.

So if we look at Moses, we can see he started his ministry when he turned 80 years old - the is a type showing that Jesus would lead His Congregation (in the 80th Jubilee) into the Wilderness (of this world) for 40 Jubilees (types by Moses 40 years in the wilderness). Moses died at 120 years old. Jesus leads them for 40 Jubilees before coming to them in the 121st Jubilee. There are 120 Jubilees alloted to man's dominion (Genesis 6:3).

Why aren't you starting with Matthew 24:15-22 - which the great tribulation is initiated when the abomination of desolation is standing in the holy place - visible for them in Judaea to flee to the mountains when they see it there?

 

[Timtofly]

There is not bible term called "Satan's 42 months". Use terms in the bible. 42 months are found in Revelation 11:2 and Revelation 13:5.

the Great Tribulation is a period of time of unprecedented trouble.

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.


The 42 months in Revelation fit within the 1335 day Great Tribulation. The 42 months include the requirement to worship the image of the beast, spoken of in Revelation 13, or be put to death.

You may understand what "the 42 months" entails, but most would not if I just said 42 months.

It is Satan's time. Satan is the Steward of the vineyard for 42 months. The FP and beast are just side kicks. Satan is in charge, because this 42 months is the 3rd woe. Satan is furious with God. Not with humans. Satan will gladly kill any human who will not worship him though. That is what is written about Satan in the last part of Revelation 12 and all of Revelation 13.

The Great Tribulation is still the sounding of the first 6 Trumpets and the 7 Thunders. These events happen before the 7th Trumpet sounds. Satan is kicked out of heaven at the start of the sound coming from the 7th Trumpet. This week of days is split in the middle. Satan sets up the abomination and there is desolation on earth for 42 months. Even Satan will make life easy for those who worship him. It is the two witnesses who make their lives miserable.

 

[Timtofly]

Why aren't you starting with Matthew 24:15-22 - which the great tribulation is initiated when the abomination of desolation is standing in the holy place - visible for them in Judaea to flee to the mountains when they see it there?

Matthew 24 is not in chronological order. Revelation is in chronological order.

Many want to interpret Revelation out of order, and try to fit it into Matthew 24.

 

[cfposter]

Why aren't you starting with Matthew 24:15-22 - which the great tribulation is initiated when the abomination of desolation is standing in the holy place - visible for them in Judaea to flee to the mountains when they see it there?

I look at those verses from a Spiritual sense. I do not look at them from a physical sense. In other words, I do not believe that the state of Israel today is involved in understanding these verses.

I also believe the meaning to not be to stand IN the Holy Place but to stand AGAINST the Holy Place. So without looking at these things from a Spiritual perspective we will not understand.