2 Thessalonians 2:4 Geography Question

[Old Timer]

And there is nobody here foolish enough to be duped into believing the lie that Christ has already come a second time.

Right?

 

[HannibalFlavius]

So what does it mean...

The coming of The Lord and our being gathered to Him...

..if it doesn't mean exactly that?

What's sad is a simple statement in the scriptures is made to mean anything but what it actually does mean...

The coming of The Lord and our being gathered to Him..

Jesus spoke in parables, and we know this for a fact, and believe it or not, some of people who know the feasts and missions of Christ can read those parables.

He came speaking in parables because he only speaks to the people who truly seek him, and to seek Christ is study the Torah, and learn who Christ is by practicing all the feast days that teach of him.


Christ has not come a second time yet because the fall Holy days have not happened yet.


We are instructed to know the times and seasons because if you don't know the times and seasons then Jesus is going to come to you like a thief in the night and you will not know what day or our he comes.

These things are taught within the 7 feasts, and they are instructions to a bride who has to prepare for her husband.




The first gentiles in the church converted to Judaism, and they became one with Jews just as Jesus came to make one man out of two men.

For 100 years after Jesus died, Gentiles were still attending synagogue with Jews. It is in Roman records and Jewish records that show Rome trying to separate the gentile converts from Judaism.

Christianity was a legal sect of Judaism for 100 years after Jesus died.



Then, laws were made against anyone who would keep the Passover of Christ, or the feast of Tabernacles.


Christianity then rejected all the ways of God and created their own Holy days and their own traditions that teach of a Babylonian Messiah.

Christianity made laws against people keeping the commandments of God, and against keeping the 7 feast days that teach of his son.


Those feast days are specifically to teach Jesus to the world, and Christians not only did away with this, but they took on Babylonian feast days that teach of the birth, death, and resurrection of Tammuz.




I will go out and tell an unbeliever,'' See, this man died as your Passover lamb, and he died as your Sukkot bull, and resurrected to begin a new kingdom as your firstfruit, and you can follow this Jesus and become a son of the new kingdom and be a firstfruit yourself.''

''See This Jesus had to die to atone for our sins, and this Jesus has 7 feast days that teach of him personally, and they teach the promises to you if you will marry him, and accept the promises of all these 7 days.''


'' See, we don't have to fear the day of the Lord because the 7 feast days teach us how to prepare, and they teach us so God will not come to us like a thief, here is the law, study the law because it is God's commandments that teach of his son.''




But what would the Christian say when he has thrown away all the things that teach of Jesus?



'' See, this is our Messiah which was born on the solstice as all God's were born on Saturnalia, see this is the Messiah who came from Babylon and we keep all his traditions that teach of him.''



''OH, You can say that Jesus is your Passover, but make sure not to keep the Passover of Jerusalem, we don't keep things of Jerusalem about a Jewish Messiah.''





How does a person teach of a Jewish Messiah who died as a Passover lamb, as a Shavuot ram, as a Yom Kippor Goat, as a Sukkot bull?


Jesus died as a Sukkot bull for the nations, but who will teach of Jesus and what this means?


How does one convert the Pagan to the religion of God, and then tell the Pagan not to keep or learn the Holy days and feasts of Jesus?




How does one know Jesus if they have done away with all the knowledge that teaches of him?


How does one read parables based upon the 7 feast days if they don't know the 7 feast days?


How does one have an opinion on the fulfillment of feast days, when they know nothing of feast days?


The great gathering is said in general like all things Christians say,'' Jesus was all the sacrifices.''

But none can actually prove that Jesus was all the sacrifices, because they reject the very proof of what they say.


The ingathering is the last great ingathering, it is not something just in general, and we are already shown how people are punished, not only from ignorance of the ingathering, but also because they were not found keeping it.


FIRE is coming, and that fire will test the works of all men, some will suffer loss, but they themselves will be saved, but only as one who goes through a fire.


WE don't have to be like some person who has not been told how to prepare for this fire, we have all the instruction in the world in how to prepare, but if the instructions are thrown out the window, whose fault is it?


Will the person come and say,'' Lord, Nobody told me what I should be doing for Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippor.''


Jesus is serving in the heavenly realm as a high priest, and every year he opens his eyes on his people, and what will you be found doing when God has opened his eyes on you?


You wont be able to say,'' Lord, nobody told me that you would be watching me at a certain time every year.''





Why shouldn't we teach of Christ?



We have his instructions, so why shouldn't we teach them to an unprepared people?

 

[HannibalFlavius]

I would sit down and tell a person about the marriage supper of the lamb, and the great joy that he may obtain in this marriage.


But if we would teach a heathen about the marriage supper of the lamb, what is the date?

There is an appointed visitation day of Christ that is specifically set upon a particular day for the marriage feast of the lamb.

Every single year the bride makes herself ready and says,'' This year in Jerusalem Lord.''

Every single year the bride is expecting and anticipating a certain day, and she knows what day it is, she has been working all year round in preparing for the coming of her husband. She knows exactly how she is to be dressed on the exact day, and she knows what a wedding garment is made of.


When the feast comes, she knows all the set appointed prayers that are spoken, she knows the idioms, and most important of all, she knows her place.

She knows because she has been told, and she believes it.



She also knows and sees the millions of others that are also brides waiting to be married, but then she knows that she knows her husband, she knows that if there are ten virgins who come up, half of them will fall, and the majority will not enter into the marriage chamber, but she prepares all year long, and she is waiting each year in case it might be the right year.

She will not be caught by surprise on that day.


WHAT DAY AM I SPEAKING OF?


What are you to be found doing on the day I'm speaking of?

 

[Old Timer]

Jesus spoke in parables, and we know this for a fact, and believe it or not, some of people who know the feasts and missions of Christ can read those parables.

He came speaking in parables because he only speaks to the people who truly seek him, and to seek Christ is study the Torah, and learn who Christ is by practicing all the feast days that teach of him.


Christ has not come a second time yet because the fall Holy days have not happened yet.


We are instructed to know the times and seasons because if you don't know the times and seasons then Jesus is going to come to you like a thief in the night and you will not know what day or our he comes.

These things are taught within the 7 feasts, and they are instructions to a bride who has to prepare for her husband.




The first gentiles in the church converted to Judaism, and they became one with Jews just as Jesus came to make one man out of two men.

For 100 years after Jesus died, Gentiles were still attending synagogue with Jews. It is in Roman records and Jewish records that show Rome trying to separate the gentile converts from Judaism.

Christianity was a legal sect of Judaism for 100 years after Jesus died.



Then, laws were made against anyone who would keep the Passover of Christ, or the feast of Tabernacles.


Christianity then rejected all the ways of God and created their own Holy days and their own traditions that teach of a Babylonian Messiah.

Christianity made laws against people keeping the commandments of God, and against keeping the 7 feast days that teach of his son.


Those feast days are specifically to teach Jesus to the world, and Christians not only did away with this, but they took on Babylonian feast days that teach of the birth, death, and resurrection of Tammuz.




I will go out and tell an unbeliever,'' See, this man died as your Passover lamb, and he died as your Sukkot bull, and resurrected to begin a new kingdom as your firstfruit, and you can follow this Jesus and become a son of the new kingdom and be a firstfruit yourself.''

''See This Jesus had to die to atone for our sins, and this Jesus has 7 feast days that teach of him personally, and they teach the promises to you if you will marry him, and accept the promises of all these 7 days.''


'' See, we don't have to fear the day of the Lord because the 7 feast days teach us how to prepare, and they teach us so God will not come to us like a thief, here is the law, study the law because it is God's commandments that teach of his son.''




But what would the Christian say when he has thrown away all the things that teach of Jesus?



'' See, this is our Messiah which was born on the solstice as all God's were born on Saturnalia, see this is the Messiah who came from Babylon and we keep all his traditions that teach of him.''



''OH, You can say that Jesus is your Passover, but make sure not to keep the Passover of Jerusalem, we don't keep things of Jerusalem about a Jewish Messiah.''





How does a person teach of a Jewish Messiah who died as a Passover lamb, as a Shavuot ram, as a Yom Kippor Goat, as a Sukkot bull?


Jesus died as a Sukkot bull for the nations, but who will teach of Jesus and what this means?


How does one convert the Pagan to the religion of God, and then tell the Pagan not to keep or learn the Holy days and feasts of Jesus?




How does one know Jesus if they have done away with all the knowledge that teaches of him?


How does one read parables based upon the 7 feast days if they don't know the 7 feast days?


How does one have an opinion on the fulfillment of feast days, when they know nothing of feast days?


The great gathering is said in general like all things Christians say,'' Jesus was all the sacrifices.''

But none can actually prove that Jesus was all the sacrifices, because they reject the very proof of what they say.


The ingathering is the last great ingathering, it is not something just in general, and we are already shown how people are punished, not only from ignorance of the ingathering, but also because they were not found keeping it.


FIRE is coming, and that fire will test the works of all men, some will suffer loss, but they themselves will be saved, but only as one who goes through a fire.


WE don't have to be like some person who has not been told how to prepare for this fire, we have all the instruction in the world in how to prepare, but if the instructions are thrown out the window, whose fault is it?


Will the person come and say,'' Lord, Nobody told me what I should be doing for Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippor.''


Jesus is serving in the heavenly realm as a high priest, and every year he opens his eyes on his people, and what will you be found doing when God has opened his eyes on you?


You wont be able to say,'' Lord, nobody told me that you would be watching me at a certain time every year.''





Why shouldn't we teach of Christ?



We have his instructions, so why shouldn't we teach them to an unprepared people?

I can't imagine why it would take all this to simply say that Christ hasn't come yet and that this pertains to when He actually does come.

 

[Danoh]

Yeah, I really and truly can't figure out what you are trying to say here.

The best I can figure out is that you are saying God is through with Israel and the Jews, and you have taken their place.

You might want to slow down and carefully read my last to posts above. I study from the Mid-Acts Dispensational Perspective [in contrast to that church, or assembly, which Christ said He would build on Peter's Messianic confession of Him on, in contrast to this, that church, or assembly which is His very Body] began with its first Body member; the Apostle Paul, after Israel's TEMPORARY fall, Acts 7:51, in light of Matt. 12:30-32, and 1 Timothy 1:16, in light of Romans 11.

His Messianic assembly is on hold til the fullness of the Gentiles - individual Gentiles, and individual Jews coming to Him as Uncircumcision, during this Mystery Age - be come in, Rom. 11:25-29.

Through His Messianic assembly He will reign over the Gentile nations on the Earth, Is. 2.

While, through His New Creature, the Body of Christ, He will reign over the Heavenlies, this New Creature, the fullness of Him, with which He will fill those Heavenly thrones, dominions, principalities with, Eph. 1 and 2.

In short - NOT BY ANY STRETCH OF REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY'S WISDOM IN ITS OWN CONCEITS IS GOD THROUGH WITH ISRAEL!!!

 

[HannibalFlavius]

I can't imagine why it would take all this to simply say that Christ hasn't come yet and that this pertains to when He actually does come.

You can't imagine?

Let's not forget that everything is about me.

Unless I ramble on for a while, people might get the impression that it's not about me.






Here is the scripture at hand.


2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 KJV
1. Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2. That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4. Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.




Who has stood against the commandments of God so that they have fallen away from the Torah to become lawless?




The very thing that justifies a person's conversion to a religion are the feast days and Sabbaths.


The first gentile Pagans converted to Judaism, and this became a serious problem for them.

Their fellow Romans, neighbors and their fellow Pagans hated them because they would only accept one God, and one way, and this is the Bible way.

They were hated and killed because they no longer accepted any of the Pagan Holy days, they would only accept Christ now, and they kept the Passover in truth and in spirit.


But we have Paul and others talking about a falling away happening within the believers of Christ.

This falling away was not present when Thessalonians was written, but after it was written, the church split off from being a legal sect of Judaism for 100 years.

The church made laws against people who would follow Christ in his feasts or Sabbaths.

The falling away from Torah and the standing against everything that is called of God or that is worshipped happened when the church did just that.

They stood against everything that is called of God or that is worshipped and this is still being done.


Now Christianity has a whole science of Thessalonians talking about the lawless one to come when he has already come and has been here for almost 2000 years.


From the day the commandments and the worship system of God was made illegal by Christianity, the lawless one has been here, hence the word,'' Lawless.''



So now it is time to return, to revisit the visitation days of Christ, and to learn the instructions for the bride so that everyone will great their husband in expectation and anticipation of actually know the day, and what they are to be doing.


But before this can happen, one has to return from being lawless, Torahless, as a son of Perdition.


Each of us are a temple, and any one of us who stand against all that is called of God or that is worshipped, we are the son of perdition, proud to be the lawless one who sits in his own temple.

 

[Old Timer]

Each of us are a temple, and any one of us who stand against all that is called of God or that is worshipped, we are the son of perdition, proud to be the lawless one who sits in his own temple.

So you're saying that a member of Christ's body, which He suffered and died for on the cross for the forgiveness of their sin...

..has the man of sin in them.. Whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and lying signs and wonders?

That's what you believe about the Lord's bride to be?

That Satan is in Christ?

How sad is that?

 

[Old Timer]

Let's put on our thinking caps for a moment..

Who might want you to believe that the man of sin is in the body of Christ?

 

[Old Timer]

And the kicker.. The Apostle to the Gentiles is warning Christians to let no man deceive them by any means..

Men today preaching that the man of sin is in the body of Christ?

What's next?

 

[HannibalFlavius]

So you're saying that a member of Christ's body, which He suffered and died for on the cross for the forgiveness of their sin...

..has the man of sin in them.. Whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and lying signs and wonders?

That's what you believe about the Lord's bride to be?

That Satan is in Christ?

How sad is that?

Not exactly, I am saying that every human was born with the son of perdition in them.



We have a choice to live as the son of the flesh, or the son of the spirit.


All people have evil imaginations, all are given to sin, all are son of an evil nature.



But God would adopt us as his own son, and if we die to ourselves daily, we can let Jesus live within us.


But die we must, because we die to the son of the flesh, to it's evil nature.



But the person who stands against the word of God and falls away from everything that is called of God or that is worshipped, that person has made a choice as he is the temple, he chooses.

So he chooses to stand against God and to do so, you prove that your own authority is above God, you condemn his laws, and you stand against his entire worship system{If you choose the son of lawlessness}.


The son of lawlessness will be revealed in everyone, but those who die to themselves daily, and those who stand with God instead of being against him will not die.

Many are called but few are chosen.

Salvation is for the many, but resurrection is a reward, and this is why I always speak of the feast days, because they teach the difference between salvation and reward.

 

[Old Timer]

Not exactly, I am saying that every human was born with the son of perdition in them.

And what might you base this statement upon, that every human was born with the son of perdition in them?

 

[Danoh]

Hannibal, what you assert is contrary to what was concluded at Acts 15 in light of Paul's private meeting with James, Cephas, and John, where he shared with them the truth of Romans 9-11, thus James' "after this," in Acts 15.

Further, you make the gross error the secular world makes, of concluding the false religion of the Roman Catholic that arose in place of Biblical Christianity, you make the gross secular error of seeing that as historic Christianity!

Biblical Christianity is, as many Jews opposed to it will assert, Pauline. Though, obviously, they do not understand his distinct Apostleship. Which is why they either oppose it, or rationalize it so it fits the equally valid, but presently on hold, Messianic Judaism of James, Cephas, and John, Gal. 2.

In Acts 3, Cephas/Peter preaches the 2nd Coming TO ISRAEL. Later, AFTER his meeting with Paul, he understands that his Matt. 28 commission, with its Luke 24, and Acts 1 Israel FIRST, has been TEMPORARILY put on hold by God, til the fullness of the Gentile salvation that Paul was raised up into be come in.

Thus, in 2 Peter he relates what happened to the Promise of His coming, as per Paul's communication to them, according to the wisdom given him [Paul].

Israel yet a waits a glorious future. In this, I enjoy the insights of your posts as to her shadows, BUT THE BODY IS OF CHRIST - we will have to disagree, though we both know, God is not through with His Beloved Nation, "For I am the LORD, I change not, the sons of Jacob, shall NOT be consumed" by His "refiners fire," Mal. 3. "Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today, and forever," as to His Covenant unto Abraham and his physical seed.

Respectfully, bro...

 

[HannibalFlavius]

You might want to slow down and carefully read my last to posts above. I study from the Mid-Acts Dispensational Perspective [in contrast to that church, or assembly, which Christ said He would build on Peter's Messianic confession of Him on, in contrast to this, that church, or assembly which is His very Body] began with its first Body member; the Apostle Paul, after Israel's TEMPORARY fall, Acts 7:51, in light of Matt. 12:30-32, and 1 Timothy 1:16, in light of Romans 11.

His Messianic assembly is on hold til the fullness of the Gentiles - individual Gentiles, and individual Jews coming to Him as Uncircumcision, during this Mystery Age - be come in, Rom. 11:25-29.

Through His Messianic assembly He will reign over the Gentile nations on the Earth, Is. 2.

While, through His New Creature, the Body of Christ, He will reign over the Heavenlies, this New Creature, the fullness of Him, with which He will fill those Heavenly thrones, dominions, principalities with, Eph. 1 and 2.

In short - NOT BY ANY STRETCH OF REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY'S WISDOM IN ITS OWN CONCEITS IS GOD THROUGH WITH ISRAEL!!!

No it's just that I actually don't understand some of the words you use, and can't exactly figure out what your saying. I don't know what dispensional something is, or any of the views it brings.

Just not quick enough.


It's that we are coming from two different angles.


You are speaking like somebody who debates other Christians on this and that and I'm sure a lot of Christians would understand you, But I come and view from a different place.

I look at everything through a prism of Holy days, and what those Holy days teach.

You will read one thing that may seem obvious to you and others, but when I read it, I come from a different place, and it means something different to me because I look through this prism that everything is founded on feast days, and the new Testament is in fact a book filled with Jewish idioms that are always speaking of feast days and their traditions.

You begin looking at Jews and gentiles a certain way, and when I look at Jews and gentiles I see the missions of feast days and exactly what they are to do.

What I see is the building of a man, a covenant for two men named Judah and Ephraim. The two of them appoint one leader over them and they become one man.


If you quote the scripture about a new covenant or how there is no difference between Jew and Gentile, I would point out that the gentile left the Jew 100 years after Jesus died.

The gentile created his own worship system against the commandments of God, and they even created their own Sabbaths, feast days and traditions by their own hand.


The Jews have to stay home, they cannot stand against the commandments of God, and they cannot take on Pagan feast days and traditions.

So Jesus came to make one man out of two men, but one of them left.


Do you see my point?


Whatever happened between Jew and gentile, it was broken and torn apart by the gentile. Whatever brotherhood there was, this brotherhood was condemned and made ILLEGAL.

And the gentiles agreed.


And since the majority{not saying you do} of Christianity rejected the feasts of Jesus, they have created their own science that begins with Lawlessness, and a built in hatred for God's people, his commandments, and the feasts of Jesus, they have a whole different perspective.

I don't know exactly how you feel, but let's compare.


What is your perspective on Simchat Torah when all the gentiles are sent home?


What happened on this day, and what is the promise that we hope for in this day?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by HannibalFlavius

Not exactly, I am saying that every human was born with the son of perdition in them.
​

And what might you base this statement upon, that every human was born with the son of perdition in them?

I would say it is a type of Judas, who is the one that gave Jesus up to the corrupt murderous Judean rulers

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary
JESUS VS JUDAS AND THE CORRUPT JUDEAN RULERS

Jhn 17:12
“While I was with them in the world,fn I kept them in Your name.
Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

Acts 1:16
"Men, brethren, it behoved this Writing that it be fulfilled,
that beforehand the Holy Spirit spake through the mouth of David concerning Judas/iouda <2455>, who became guide to those who took Jesus,

2Th 2:3
Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first,
and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,


.

 

[Interplanner]

No Danoh, there is no 2P2P in the NT (two peoples, two programs). It is not there.

 

[Danoh]

Hannibal, actually, most of Christianity hasn't a clue as to the Mid-Acts Perspective either, so you're far from alone. With the great exception, however, that you admit it.

Sit down once and just read from Romans thru Philemon, and what you find is Paul both constantly defending his Apostleship and its ministry among the Gentiles, as well as warning against concluding it means that God is through with Israel.

By his last Epistle, 2 Timothy, "all they which are in Asia be turned away from me," 2 Tim. 1:15, so its no surprise that the warning of Romans 11:25-29, ended up not only abandoned, but eventually replaced, first, by the false system of Rome, then, by Luther's, Calvin's et all erroneous Replacement Theology.

Our of this arose, eventually, Acts 2 Dispensationalism, which never recovered the Pauline distinction between "the Israel of God," as IDENTIFIED in Romans 2:29, and that church, or assembly, which is His Body, Romans 8.

Dispensationalism is actually about distinct Identies or Agencies - the Israel of God being one, the Body of Christ the other, in God's Two-Fold purpose, Gen. 1:1, Eph. 1:10.

I don't follow Torah, as I am a Mid-Acts, Pauline Dispensational GRACE Believer. And in this, it is "the grace of God that bringeth salvation" that "hath appeared to all men" without distinction, "Teaching us, that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in this PRESENT world; Looking for that blessed hope" the redemption of our body that it may fashioned like unto his glorious body at that "glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ: Who gave Himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works - THESE THINGS SPEAK, AND EXHORT, AND REBUKE WITH ALL AUTHORITY. Let NO MAN despise thee," Titus 2:11-15.

Grace Doctrine is my "instruction in righteousness," just as Torah is Israel," Rom. 2, and Rom. 6.

Fact is the Body is "not under the law" for righteousness. We are in Christ, that, we "through the Spirit" might fufill that righteousness of God which the Law witnessed, Rom. 8:1-13.

The Law was covenanted into with Israel. Thus, in their coming day, "out of Zion shall go forth the law" to all nations, Is. 2.

Think Two-Fold Purpose: one "on Earth," the other "in Heaven."

The Israel of God over the Gentile nations. The Body of Christ, over the Heavenlies, thus, Paul's Gal. 6, "and peace upon the Israel of God," his grief over his beloved nation's TEMPORARY fall, side by side in his heart with "how much more their fullness" one day, Rom. 11.

In the spirit, of Acts 17:11, bro...

 

[riverrat]

No Danoh, there is no 2P2P in the NT (two peoples, two programs). It is not there.

AC+PC+MC+DC+NC=2P2P

 

[HannibalFlavius]

I would say it is a type of Judas, who is the one that gave Jesus up to the corrupt murderous Judean rulers

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary
JESUS VS JUDAS AND THE CORRUPT JUDEAN RULERS

Jhn 17:12
“While I was with them in the world,fn I kept them in Your name.
Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.


2Th 2:3
Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first,
and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,


.

What is it that you would have me believe?



The scripture talks about a falling away from Torah, a lawless one to come, and this word lawless continues being used because it means just that, and we don't have to wonder.


Again, who has come and done away with the commandments of God?

Who stands against everything that is called of God or that is worshipped?


WE are speaking about the law and the worship system of God, that people would oppose the commandments of God, and do away with his worship system.


Would you have me believe it means something else?

As if it isn't talking about doing away with the commandments of God, and it isn't talking about doing away with the feats and Sabbaths of God?

Antichrist comes to change the times and the seasons so that nobody will know the visitation days of God, and that's exactly what has been accomplished.

The changing of the times and the seasons to the point that the people who say they believe in Jesus know nothing of the missions of Jesus.


If we all believe in Jesus, we should be able to sit here and have a conversation of what Simchat Torah promises.



Some people start a conversation about the New Testament in the full knowledge of the feasts and missions of Christ, and who are educated in the law, who support the law.

Then some other people begin to talk about the New Testament who are against the law, and ignorant of the worship system of Jesus.


To begin speaking of the New Testament and what Jesus has come to do is to speak about his 7 feasts days and the missions of the feasts days.


But if one takes all the knowledge of the feast days away and then begins to read the New Testament, the reader has no clue of all the Jewish idioms and prayers, and missions of Christ that he fulfills in the feast days.


What I am reading in looking through a prism of feast days and knowledge of the law is not what a Christian is reading who has done away with the knowledge of the law, and the knowledge of Jesus in feasts days.


The person who throws away the law and the feast days has to create his own reality of what the new testament says.


''' There was silence in heaven for about the space of 30 min.''



Now the person who knows the feasts of Jesus might know exactly what this silence is.

But the person who knows nothing of the feast days has to create a reality of what he thinks it means.

The whole New Testament is that way, if you throw off the Torah and worship system of God, then you throw away the understanding of what the New Testament says.

 

[daq]

I would say it is a type of Judas, who is the one that gave Jesus up to the corrupt murderous Judean rulers

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary
JESUS VS JUDAS AND THE CORRUPT JUDEAN RULERS

Jhn 17:12
“While I was with them in the world,fn I kept them in Your name.
Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.


2Th 2:3
Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first,
and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,


.

Perhaps you only need take the typology of Judas to its conclusion:

Judas Sicarii-Sakariy, ("My Price" ~ Zechariah 11:12) was looking only for a strictly physical earthly kingdom: and when he saw that this was not what Yeshua was offering he betrayed the Messiah.

The same as most here in this board.

 

[Old Timer]

I would say it is a type of Judas, who is the one that gave Jesus up to the corrupt murderous Judean rulers

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary
JESUS VS JUDAS AND THE CORRUPT JUDEAN RULERS

Jhn 17:12
“While I was with them in the world,fn I kept them in Your name.
Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.


2Th 2:3
Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first,
and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,


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Evidently there is no scriptural basis for his belief that all men are born as sons of perdition like he says.