2 Thess 2:12 teaches eternal security

[FreeGrace2]

Where is the rest of the scripture Freegrace?

It's all there for everyone to see.

Why do you leave out part of the scripture?

Which part renders the teaching on eternal life null and void?

Because your whole “theology” is built upon the false notion that God gives eternal life to everyone without any conditions.

This may be the most absurd statement anyone could make about my theology.

I challenge you to provide any post # where I said what you claim here.

In fact, what I've always said is that, according to John 5:24, 6;47 and 1 John 5:13, ONLY those who have believed on Jesus Christ for salvation possess eternal life.

So, there is just ONE condition for never perishing. That is to receive eternal life.

Which is what John 10:28 is about.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Do you accept these scriptures or not?

Ridiculous question, since this is what I just asked you:
"FreeGrace2 said: ↑
Do you accept 1 Thess as Scripture or not? Like so many other verses that refute you."

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9

Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. James 4:4

And I've explained every one of these verses to show what they mean.

Why do you not accept the truth of John 5:24, 6:47, 1 John 5:13 about those who believe have eternal life, and John 10:28, about those given eternal life shall never perish?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Christian’s are called to obey the commandments of the Lord.

Yes they are. I've always agreed with that.

What the Bible DOESN'T say is obeying the commands of the Lord for salvation.

What the Bible DOES say is to believe on the Lord Jesus for salvation and eternal life.

Your works system of Pharisee religion will not get anyone to heaven.

 

[JLB777]

What the Bible DOESN'T say is obeying the commands of the Lord for salvation.

Couldn’t be further from the truth.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9


Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. James 4:4



JLB

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"What the Bible DOESN'T say is obeying the commands of the Lord for salvation."

Couldn’t be further from the truth.

It's your opinions and claims that couldnt be farther from the truth.

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9

Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. James 4:4

How come you can't see that NONE of these verses says anything about obeying commands for having salvation?

Those interested in WHAT the Bible says about having salvation, look no further than these:
Salvation:

Mark 16:16 " He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

Luke 8:12 "Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.

Acts 4:12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

Acts 11:14 and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.'

Acts 16:31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Rom 10:9, 10 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

2 Tim 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 1:5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 1:9 obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.

2 Thess 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

Eternal Life:

John 3:15-16 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

I recommend reading each verse and counting which ones mentions obeying the commandments.

Hint: none of them do. And all of them say that salvation and eternal life is by faith in Christ.

You continue to be wrong in your opinions, assumptions, and presumptions.

Yet, the truth is obvious enough for all to see.

But one's eyes and ears must be open.

 

[JLB777]

How come you can't see that NONE of these verses says anything about obeying commands for having salvation?

You have willingly closed your eyes to the truth.

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9




JLB​

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
How come you can't see that NONE of these verses says anything about obeying commands for having salvation?

You have willingly closed your eyes to the truth.

Obviously you never bothered reading any of the 24 verses I quoted that tell how to have salvation/eternal life. And NONE of them mentioned anything obeying commandments.

All of them mentioned faith in Christ ONLY. Nothing else.

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9


​

​

Again, you've never quoted ANY verse that tells us that salvation is by obeying commands.

And the 2 pet ones that you always quote say one must "continually do good" in order to earn eternal life. And after that, Paul makes perfectly clear that all humans are "under sin" in Rom 3:9 and that "all have sinned" in Rom 3:23.

So your hope in earning eternal life is futile.

The only perfect human being was Jesus of Nazareth, the Messiah and Son of God.

He did, and that qualified Him to die in our place for our sins.

Eternal life is given on the basis of grace, meaning that we CAN'T earn it, as you continue to assume.

 

[JLB777]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
How come you can't see that NONE of these verses says anything about obeying commands for having salvation?

Obviously you never bothered reading any of the 24 verses I quoted that tell how to have salvation/eternal life. And NONE of them mentioned anything obeying commandments.

All of them mentioned faith in Christ ONLY. Nothing else.

​

Again, you've never quoted ANY verse that tells us that salvation is by obeying commands.

And the 2 pet ones that you always quote say one must "continually do good" in order to earn eternal life. And after that, Paul makes perfectly clear that all humans are "under sin" in Rom 3:9 and that "all have sinned" in Rom 3:23.

So your hope in earning eternal life is futile.

The only perfect human being was Jesus of Nazareth, the Messiah and Son of God.

He did, and that qualified Him to die in our place for our sins.

Eternal life is given on the basis of grace, meaning that we CAN'T earn it, as you continue to assume.

You have closed your eyes and turned away from the truth.


Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 1 John 2:3


The biblical definition of eternal life is “knowing Him”.


And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4


His commandments are about loving God and loving our neighbor.


Paul says it this way –

Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. Romans 13:8-10


“Not keeping His commandments” are about hating God and hating our neighbor.


By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:2-3


If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also. 1 John 4:20


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15



JLB

 

[FreeGrace2]

You have closed your eyes and turned away from the truth.

I've proven my view with Scripture that actually says what I claim.

Unlike yourself, who hasn't proven your view with Scripture that actually says what you claim.

btw, the very fact that you've never dealt with my color coded explanation of John 10:28 being a statement about the CAUSE and EFFECT of having eternal life just shows that you cannot deal with it.

Because it refutes your assumptions.

 

[JLB777]

I've proven my view with Scripture that actually says what I claim.

Unlike yourself, who hasn't proven your view with Scripture that actually says what you claim.

btw, the very fact that you've never dealt with my color coded explanation of John 10:28 being a statement about the CAUSE and EFFECT of having eternal life just shows that you cannot deal with it.

Because it refutes your assumptions.

You are still trying to ignore the scriptures I provided.



Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 1 John 2:3


The biblical definition of eternal life is “knowing Him”.


And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4


His commandments are about loving God and loving our neighbor.


Paul says it this way –

Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. Romans 13:8-10


“Not keeping His commandments” are about hating God and hating our neighbor.


By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:2-3


If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also. 1 John 4:20


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15



JLB

 

[FreeGrace2]

You are still trying to ignore the scriptures I provided.

I've never ignored any verse you've quoted. In fact, I have provided a very reasonable explanation of all of them to show how they do NOT teach or even hint of losing salvation.

But, this is what I said in my previous post:
"btw, the very fact that you've never dealt with my color coded explanation of John 10:28being a statement about the CAUSE and EFFECT of having eternal life just shows that you cannot deal with it.

Because it refutes your assumptions."

Why have you never engaged with it? What's holding you back?

You're the one who ignores others.

Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 1 John 2:3

Clearly, those who don't believe Jesus when He said those He gives eternal life shall never perish don't know Him.

The biblical definition of eternal life is “knowing Him”.

And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3

And considering the WHOLE council of God, we know that to know Him is to trust in Him completely, which is the definition of faith.

And those who believe in Him HAVE eternal life, another FACT that you refuse to acknowledge. John 5:24, 6:47, and 1 John 5:13 specifically SAY that those who believe possess eternal life.

Since you don't believe that, you've demonstrated that you don't know Him.

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

How can you claim to keep His commandments when you don't even believe what He teaches?

His commandments are about loving God and loving our neighbor.

And that won't get you saved.

Mother Teresa certainly demonstrated a lot of love for some very unlovely people. Yet, since she thought she would get to heaven based on that, she has been very disappointed.

Paul says it this way –

Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. Romans 13:8-10

How does this passage support any of your points?

“Not keeping His commandments” are about hating God and hating our neighbor.

How can one who doesn't believe what Jesus says in John 5:24, 6:47 and 10:28 not hate Him as well?

By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:2-3

Those who reject anything Jesus taught cannot love Him. Such actions are mutually exclusive.

If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also. 1 John 4:20

What does this have to do with your unbiblical theory that salvation can be lost?

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15

How many times would you like me to explain this to you?

But, more interesting is the fact that even after explaining what "abiding" means here and in John 15, you never even tried to refute or challenge anything I posted.

But, I'm tired of your cut and paste antics. Either address 2 Thess 2:12 or quit posting.

Anything else violates the forum rules.

 

[JLB777]

I've never ignored any verse you've quoted. In fact, I have provided a very reasonable explanation of all of them to show how they do NOT teach or even hint of losing salvation.

You have done nothing but reject the truth.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15


Please explain how a brother in Christ who hates his brother can still have eternal life, when the Apostle John by the Spirit says otherwise.


JLB

 

[JLB777]

Either address 2 Thess 2:12 or quit posting.

that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2:12


No mention of eternal life here.


JLB

 

[FreeGrace2]

The truth is that whoever believes POSSESSES (has) eternal life.
John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 6:47 - Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

1 John 5:13 - I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

This is the truth. Believers HAVE eternal life.

And that is because Jesus gives it to them, as He plainly said in John 10:28 - "I give them eternal life".

His next statement sinks your boat: "and they shall never perish".

But you don't believe any of these verses.

You're the truth denier.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"Either address 2 Thess 2:12 or quit posting."

that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2:12


No mention of eternal life here.
JLB

Here is the point that you won't address. Those condemned "did not believe".

Here is another use of the aorist tense regarding believing.

Your claim is that if one ceases to believe, they cease to be saved.

Yet this verse says people are condemned who never believed.

Did a former believer ever believe? Of course. So this verse also sinks your boat.

Those who have ever believed will not be condemned.

2Thess 2:12 says the same thing as John 5:24 and John 10:28.

 

[JLB777]

The truth is that whoever believes POSSESSES (has) eternal life.
John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 6:47 - Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

1 John 5:13 - I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

This is the truth. Believers HAVE eternal life.

And that is because Jesus gives it to them, as He plainly said in John 10:28 - "I give them eternal life".

His next statement sinks your boat: "and they shall never perish".

But you don't believe any of these verses.

You're the truth denier.

So far there is nothing in 2 Thessalonians 2:12 that mentions eternal life.


Are you finished with that discussion?



JLB

 

[JLB777]

I said:
"Either address 2 Thess 2:12 or quit posting."

Here is the point that you won't address. Those condemned "did not believe".

Here is another use of the aorist tense regarding believing.

Your claim is that if one ceases to believe, they cease to be saved.

Yet this verse says people are condemned who never believed.

Did a former believer ever believe? Of course. So this verse also sinks your boat.

Those who have ever believed will not be condemned.

2Thess 2:12 says the same thing as John 5:24 and John 10:28.

.


Where does 2 Thessalonians mention eternal life?

Please stop jumping around.


You demanded that the OP was about 2 Thessalonians 2:12, and that I discuss it.


So where is this mentioning eternal life and your claim once a person has eternal life in them it will remain in them no matter how they live.

A simple scripture of course proves that to be false, but you won’t discuss that, because you want to discuss how 2 Thessalonians 2:12 proves your theory that once a person has eternal life in them that it will be in them forever.


that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2:12


I still don’t see what this scripture has to do with your claim, as there is no mention of eternal life in it.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15


See how this verse states that a brother who hates another brother no longer has eternal life in him.

Christian’s become brothers because they are joined to Christ and are one spirit with Him, and have God as their Father.

But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 1 Corinthians 6:17



Notice how John teaches if one of them begins to hate the other, he does not have eternal life abiding in him.


That would certainly be the end of your false claim about OSAS.


JLB

PS. Notice how I post the scripture that backs up what I say? That’s because I teach the truth and do not have anything to hide.


Stating your opinion then tagging it with scripture references is deceitful.

Example -

2Thess 2:12 says the same thing as John 5:24 and John 10:28

 

[FreeGrace2]

So far there is nothing in 2 Thessalonians 2:12 that mentions eternal life.

This is what I already posted to you:
"Here is the point that you won't address. Those condemned "did not believe".

Here is another use of the aorist tense regarding believing.

Your claim is that if one ceases to believe, they cease to be saved.

Yet this verse says people are condemned who never believed.

Did a former believer ever believe? Of course. So this verse also sinks your boat.

Those who have ever believed will not be condemned.

2Thess 2:12 says the same thing as John 5:24 and John 10:28."

If you disagree with anything I posted, please address each disagreement and provide solid evidence for your reason for disagreeing.

Are you finished with that discussion?

I'm waiting for a serious reply regarding what 2 Thess 2:12 clearly implies, but you seem very unwilling to acknowledge.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Where does 2 Thessalonians mention eternal life?

I never even suggested that it did.

Please stop jumping around.

Please focus. Address the aorist tense of 'believe' and explain why Paul used that tense.

You demanded that the OP was about 2 Thessalonians 2:12, and that I discuss it.

And I'm waiting for that.

So where is this mentioning eternal life and your claim once a person has eternal life in them it will remain in them no matter how they live.

Don't make so much smoke for your screen. Deal with the FACT that condemnation is for those who have not believed.

Question: will a person who HAS believed ever face condemnation?

A simple scripture of course proves that to be false, but you won’t discuss that, because you want to discuss how 2 Thessalonians 2:12 proves your theory that once a person has eternal life in them that it will be in them forever.

Just answer my question.

that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2:12

There it is; clear as the sky. I even color coded the words that prove eternal security.

Your wildly unbiblical theory would require Paul to have written this:
"that they all may be condemned who are not still believing the truth".

But he didn't write what your theory demands that he should have written.

I still don’t see what this scripture has to do with your claim, as there is no mention of eternal life in it.

Of course you don't. Your eyes are tightly closed to the fact of eternal security.

But I color coded the words of eternal security. And we know you aren't color blind, since you also use red words.

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15

Go ahead and continue to ignore the clear meaning of "abiding".

See how this verse states that a brother who hates another brother no longer has eternal life in him.

I don't see anything about "no longer has".

PS. Notice how I post the scripture that backs up what I say?

I've noticed the exact opposite.

That’s because I teach the truth and do not have anything to hide.

You don't know the truth.

Just answer my question above.

Stating your opinion then tagging it with scripture references is deceitful.

Example -

2Thess 2:12 says the same thing as John 5:24 and John 10:28

Since you disagree, what's keeping you from actually addressing my claim and proving it wrong. Explain how John 5:24 DOESN'T say whoever believes possesses eternal life and then those who have been given eternal life shall never perish from John 10:28.

But since these verses refute your theory, I'm sure you can't address either of them.

 

[JLB777]

I never even suggested that it did.


Please focus. Address the aorist tense of 'believe' and explain why Paul used that tense.


And I'm waiting for that.


Don't make so much smoke for your screen. Deal with the FACT that condemnation is for those who have not believed.

Question: will a person who HAS believed ever face condemnation?


Just answer my question.


There it is; clear as the sky. I even color coded the words that prove eternal security.

Your wildly unbiblical theory would require Paul to have written this:
"that they all may be condemned who are not still believing the truth".

But he didn't write what your theory demands that he should have written.


Of course you don't. Your eyes are tightly closed to the fact of eternal security.

But I color coded the words of eternal security. And we know you aren't color blind, since you also use red words.


Go ahead and continue to ignore the clear meaning of "abiding".


I don't see anything about "no longer has".


I've noticed the exact opposite.


You don't know the truth.

Just answer my question above.


Since you disagree, what's keeping you from actually addressing my claim and proving it wrong. Explain how John 5:24 DOESN'T say whoever believes possesses eternal life and then those who have been given eternal life shall never perish from John 10:28.

But since these verses refute your theory, I'm sure you can't address either of them.

Now that we all see 2 Thessalonians 2:12
Has nothing to do with eternal life, we can move back to the truth.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15


See how this verse states that a brother who hates another brother no longer has eternal life in him.

Christian’s become brothers because they are joined to Christ and are one spirit with Him, and have God as their Father.

But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 1 Corinthians 6:17



Notice how John teaches if one of them begins to hate the other, he does not have eternal life abiding in him.


That would certainly be the end of your false claim about OSAS.


JLB