1 Timothy 2:4 + God does all He desires = all will be saved?

[Shempster]

I do understand the whole concept of being lost in a burning hell for all of eternity. I believed it as I was told for over 40 years.
But I learned that that concept was man-made and preceded most of the bible in cultures that never even heard of Israel.

One problem that came from it is that people (including me) saw people as either "saved" or "lost". In my mind, I would see a beggar on the street smoking a cigggy and think "well, OBVIOUSLY this guy is not a Christian because he is smoking. He is probably a drug addict and doesn't want to work. He just wants to make me feel bad and give him my hard earned money. He is going to burn in hell forever anyway, so forget about him".

Or, that guy calls himself a Christian because he believes a damnable universalist heresy. He's going to burn in hell forever, so I'll consider him an enemy of God.

That attitude goes against God in a very big way.

 

[Der Alte]

Premise 1: God desires all be saved.... 1 Timothy 2:4: "[God] who desires(THELO) all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."
Premise 2: God does all He desires(THELO, Strongs #2709) (Isa.55:11; Psa.115:3; 135:6).
Conclusion: All will be saved
True or false?
Supporting verses:
Our God is in the heavens; he does all that he pleases(THELO) (Psalm 115:3).
Whatever the LORD pleases(THELO), He does, In heaven and in earth, in the seas and in all deeps (Psalm 135:6).
"So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire(THELO), And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it." (Isaiah 55:11).

Posted in post #11. Never responded to.

Note this passage from Jeremiah. God said “I have caused to cleave” That word is הדבקתי/ha’dabaq’thi. It is in the perfect or completed sense. God’s will, expressly stated, for the whole house of Israel and Judah, to cling to God as a belt clings to a man’s waist. It was done, finished, completed, in God’s sight, and, according to some arguments, nothing man can do will cause God’s will to not be done. But they, Israel and Judah, would not hear and obey, their will, vs. God’s will, So God destroyed them, vs. 14.
.....God stated very clearly what His will was, in terms that cannot be misunderstood. But, because the Israelites would not hear, and obey, God destroyed them, instead of them being unto God, “for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory, vs. 10.”

Jer 13:1 Thus saith the LORD unto me, Go and get thee a linen girdle, and put it upon thy loins, and put it not in water.
2 So I got a girdle according to the word of the LORD, and put it on my loins.
3 And the word of the LORD came unto me the second time, saying,
4 Take the girdle that thou hast got, which is upon thy loins, and arise, go to Euphrates, and hide it there in a hole of the rock.
5 So I went, and hid it by Euphrates, as the LORD commanded me.
6 And it came to pass after many days, that the LORD said unto me, Arise, go to Euphrates, and take the girdle from thence, which I commanded thee to hide there.
7 Then I went to Euphrates, and digged, and took the girdle from the place where I had hid it: and, behold, the girdle was marred, it was profitable for nothing.
8 Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
9 Thus saith the LORD, After this manner will I mar the pride of Judah, and the great pride of Jerusalem.
10 This evil people, which refuse to hear my words, which walk in the imagination of their heart, and walk after other gods, to serve them, and to worship them, shall even be as this girdle, which is good for nothing.
11 For as the girdle cleaveth to the loins of a man, so have I caused to cleave [הדבקתי/ha’dabaq’thi] unto me the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah, saith the LORD; that they might be unto me for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory: but they would not hear.
· · ·
14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.​

Note, verse 14, God said He will NOT have pity, will NOT spare, and will NOT have mercy but destroy them.

 

[mkgal1]

.
REVELATION.20 & 21 =
Satan Bound 1,000 Years
20 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

The Saints Reign with Christ 1,000 Years
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

Satanic Rebellion Crushed
7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

The Great White Throne Judgment
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
.
.
All Things Made New
21 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”

5 Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.”

6 And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. 7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” .......

The Glory of the New Jerusalem
22 But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23 The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light. 24 And the nations of those who are saved shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it. 25 Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there). 26 And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it. 27 But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb's Book of Life.

I'm unsure of the point you're trying to make here. We ALL need to die of our selves (our egos.....our selfishness....our pride...our greed.....our lack of compassion, etc) in order to have life (even those that are walking around breathing today are "dead" in their sin). There's loads of language in the Bible that refers to loving God and others well as "choosing life".

But.....like Shempster pointed out, I don't see that as being cut and dry. I believe it's a moment by moment; action upon action; attitude of the moment kind of thing. When I love someone with pure intentions.... I believe that's life-giving. However, when I'm fearful of not getting my way and manipulate a situation for my benefit, I believe that brings death.

This quote from Christos Yannaras articulates that much better than I can:

In the language of his place and time, Christ spoke of the mode of existence and life "according to truth" as the "kingdom of heaven." He preached that those who guide us toward this "mode" are not pious religious people, those who find satisfaction in being virtuous, those who shore up their ego by keeping some kind of law. Those who guide us are people who have lost all confidence in their own selves, people who expect no personal reward whatsoever, and only thirst to be loved even if they don't deserve it - despised sinners: tax collectors, robbers, prostitutes, and prodigals.

- Christos Yannaras

And this quote as well:

Christianity is a lifestyle - a way of being in the world that is simple, non-violent, shared, and loving. However, we made it into an established "religion" (and all that goes with that) and avoided the lifestyle change itself. One could be warlike, greedy, racist, selfish, and vain in most of Christian history, and still believe that Jesus is one's "personal Lord and Savior" . . . The world has no time for such silliness anymore. The suffering on Earth is too great.
- Richard Rohr

.....that still doesn't mean ALL won't eventually be purged of their (our) impurities.

 

[mkgal1]

The Saints Reign with Christ 1,000 Years
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

As far as this quoted text goes.....like I wrote earlier, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make by quoting it, but I just wanted to mention that in Revelation numbers are symbolic....not literal. This time period has already begun. The beheadings took place during the period of persecution of the church....Christ's followers (when John the Baptizer and Bartholomew were beheaded... around 29 AD and 54 AD ).

Christ has won the decisive victory over sin, death and Satan. By living a sinless life and by dying on the cross as the sacrifice of atonement for our sin, Christ defeated sin. By undergoing death and then victoriously rising from the grave, Christ defeated death. By resisting the devil’s temptations, by perfectly obeying God, and by his death and resurrection, Christ delivered a deathblow to Satan and his evil hosts. This victory of Christ’s was decisive and final. The most important day in history, therefore, is not the Second Coming of Christ which is still future but the first coming which lies in the past. Because of the victory of Christ, the ultimate issues of history have already been decided. It is now only a question of time until that victory is brought to its final consummation.~"Amillennialism: A Brief Sketch of Amillennial Eschatology" by Anthony Hoekema

https://www.amazon.com/Making-All-T...swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1522882378&sr=8-6

Outline of book here: http://cdn.bakerpublishinggroup.com...es/files/Excerpt_9780801049606.pdf?1453997989​

 

[ClementofA]

.
2THESSALONIANS.2: =
The Great Apostasy
2 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _

A better translation is:

10and in all deceitfulness of the unrighteousness in those perishing, because the love of the truth they did not receive for their being saved, 11and because of this shall God
send to them a working of delusion, for their believing the lie, 12that they may be judged — all who did not believe the truth, but were well pleased in the unrighteousness. (YLT)

Perishing is the same word used of the "lost" prodigal son who was saved.

The passage refers to the future when Christ returns. The lost will not be saved...at that time. No reference is made to how long they will be punished, if such is corrective or
purely sadistic, or final destiny.


----

Premise 1: God desires all be saved.... 1 Timothy 2:4: "[God] who desires(THELO) all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."

Premise 2: God does all He desires(THELO, Strongs #2709) (Isa.55:11; Psa.115:3; 135:6).

Conclusion: All will be saved

Supporting verses:

Our God is in the heavens; he does all that he pleases(THELO) (Psalm 115:3).

Whatever the LORD pleases(THELO), He does, In heaven and in earth, in the seas and in all deeps (Psalm 135:6).

"So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire(THELO), And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it." (Isaiah 55:11).

Unique Proof For Christian, Biblical Universalism

 

[ClementofA]

14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.​

Note, verse 14, God said He will NOT have pity, will NOT spare, and will NOT have mercy but destroy them.

Yet nowhere in Scripture does it say those destroyed (i.e. killed) cannot be saved postmortem. Or that they cannot receive correction and mercy postmortem. 1 Cor.5:4-5 says destruction is for salvation. And Mt.1:21 + 2:6; Rom.11:26; Isa.45:21-25 all Israel shall be saved.

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

 

[Shempster]

A better translation is:

10and in all deceitfulness of the unrighteousness in those perishing, because the love of the truth they did not receive for their being saved, 11and because of this shall God
send to them a working of delusion, for their believing the lie, 12that they may be judged — all who did not believe the truth, but were well pleased in the unrighteousness. (YLT)

Perishing is the same word used of the "lost" prodigal son who was saved.

The passage refers to the future when Christ returns. The lost will not be saved...at that time. No reference is made to how long they will be punished, if such is corrective or
purely sadistic, or final destiny.


----

Premise 1: God desires all be saved.... 1 Timothy 2:4: "[God] who desires(THELO) all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."

Premise 2: God does all He desires(THELO, Strongs #2709) (Isa.55:11; Psa.115:3; 135:6).

Conclusion: All will be saved

Supporting verses:

Our God is in the heavens; he does all that he pleases(THELO) (Psalm 115:3).

Whatever the LORD pleases(THELO), He does, In heaven and in earth, in the seas and in all deeps (Psalm 135:6).

"So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire(THELO), And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it." (Isaiah 55:11).

Unique Proof For Christian, Biblical Universalism

Nicely said

 

[discipler7]

Or, that guy calls himself a Christian because he believes a damnable universalist heresy. He's going to burn in hell forever, so I'll consider him an enemy of God.

That attitude goes against God in a very big way.

1CORINTHIANS.6: = 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
.
.
PROVERBS.6: =
The Wicked Man
12 A worthless person, a wicked man,
Walks with a perverse mouth;
13 He winks with his eyes,
He shuffles his feet,
He points with his fingers;
14 Perversity is in his heart,
He devises evil continually,
He sows discord.
15 Therefore his calamity shall come suddenly;
Suddenly he shall be broken without remedy.

16 These six things the Lord hates,
Yes, seven are an abomination to Him:
17 A proud look,
A lying tongue,
Hands that shed innocent blood,
18 A heart that devises wicked plans,
Feet that are swift in running to evil,
19 A false witness who speaks lies,
And one who sows discord among brethren.
.
.
HOSEA.9: =
15 “All their wickedness is in Gilgal,
For there I hated them.
Because of the evil of their deeds
I will drive them from My house;
I will love them no more.
All their princes are rebellious.
16 Ephraim is stricken,
Their root is dried up;
They shall bear no fruit.
Yes, were they to bear children,
I would kill the darlings of their womb.”

17 My God will cast them away,
Because they did not obey Him;
And they shall be wanderers among the nations.
.
.
ROMANS.9: = 12 it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”

 

[Der Alte]

Yet nowhere in Scripture does it say those destroyed (i.e. killed) cannot be saved postmortem. Or that they cannot receive correction and mercy postmortem.

A lot of meaningless argumentation. Your argument is a logical fallacy, argument from silence. Since the Bible does not say that people who die as sinners cannot be saved postmortem, thus they can receive correction and mercy postmortem. Since they can be saved they will be saved. Read the scripture again.

Jeremiah 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.​

This is God speaking, so don't quote anything but God speaking. Show me where God Himself said about the Israelites He destroyed in Jerem., because they rejected Him, "Oops I changed my mind and now I will have mercy, I will have pity. I will spare and I will undestroy you?

1 Cor.5:4-5 says destruction is for salvation. And Mt.1:21 + 2:6; Rom.11:26; Isa.45:21-25 all Israel shall be saved.

Please don't quote to me from or link to that trash dump "Tentmakers." They neither state nor show that they have any relevant expertise in the subject matter. To me it is just another irrelevant blog, some guy(s) giving their opinion.
.....UR nonsense! 1 Cor 5;4-5 does not say that destruction is for salvation. The verses you mentioned, are any of them God speaking specifically addressing the Israelites He destroyed in Jer 13:14? If not, then they are not relevant. Folks can cherry pick verses from all over the Bible jam them together regardless of context and prove almost anything they want to. For example I can say "The Bible says 'There is no God.'" Psalm 14:1 and Psalm 15:1.

 

[mkgal1]

1CORINTHIANS.6: = 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
.

And isn't pride and a sense of superiority unrighteous? Isn't that what Jesus meant by "the yeast of the Pharisees"...that hypocrisy of pointing the finger at others?

Jesus--it seems to me--seemed to have been making it His main mission while He was here on earth to draw attention to the dignity of ALL people (but especially those that were shoved off to the margins).....trying to get people to see the "little bit of wine" left in ALL people--like is written in Isaiah:

"As when juice is still found in a cluster of grapes and people say, 'Don't destroy it, there is still a blessing in it.."~Isaiah 65:8
​

..... it's up to Him to decide who is righteous/who is not...not us. He is the King of His kingdom.

 

[mkgal1]

Look at what you even posted!

16 These six things the Lord hates,
Yes, seven are an abomination to Him:
17 A proud look,
A lying tongue,
Hands that shed innocent blood,
18 A heart that devises wicked plans,
Feet that are swift in running to evil,
19 A false witness who speaks lies,
And one who sows discord among brethren.
.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone....".

 

[Shempster]

I'm sure some of you read writings of the early church fathers.
This argument is as old as the best of them. There seems to be scriptural "proof" for all sides. You just have to make up your own mind about how you see God. The early fathers did just that.
Is he ever loving, humble and gentle full of agape love or is he one who must torture or annihilate those who refuse to love him back?

The only problem with this approach is that you have a 66% chance you are wrong.

 

[mkgal1]

You just have to make up your own mind about how you see God

Absolutely....but some people seem to disregard that Jesus is the exact imprint of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3).....and even attribute traits to Jesus that aren't really there. Our stubborn egos only allow us to see what we wish to see (that's why we need to "die daily" of that to see reality).....otherwise our understanding of God is a god made in our OWN image.

 

[Shempster]

Absolutely....but some people seem to disregard that Jesus is the exact imprint of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3).....and even attribute traits to Jesus that aren't really there. Our stubborn egos only allow us to see what we wish to see (that's why we need to "die daily" of that to see reality).

Yes!
And as I remember it, at the moment where the people hated him so much they spit on him, slapped him, pushed thorns into his head and hung him on a cross.....look what he did.
He said "Father forgive them". If his nature was to inflict severe punishment on those who reject him, he would have. But that would go against his (and the fathers) nature. He is humble and gentle of heart, forgiving more than 70 times 7.

 

[mkgal1]

"He takes away the sin of this world"....

“You killed the Author of life, whom God raised from the dead.” –The Apostle Peter, Acts 3:15​

Golgotha is where the great crimes of humanity — pride, rivalry, blame, violence, domination, war, and empire — are dragged into the searing light of divine judgment. At Golgotha we see the system of human organization that we blithely call “civilization” for what it is: an axis of power enforced by violence so corrupt that it is capable of murdering God in the name of what we call truth, justice, and liberty.

Golgotha is also the place where the love of God achieves its greatest expression. As Jesus is lynched in the name of religious truth and imperial justice he expresses the heart of God as he pleads for the pardon of his executioners. At the cross we discover that the God revealed in Christ would rather die in the name of love than kill in the name of freedom. Our savior is Jesus Christ, not William Wallace.

The cross is both hideous and glorious, simultaneously ugly and beautiful. It’s as hideous as human sin and as glorious as divine love. It is a collision of sin and grace. But it is not a contest of equals. In the end love and beauty win. We call it Easter.

What the cross is not is a quid pro quo where God agrees to forgive upon receipt of his Son’s murder. What the cross is not is an economic transaction whereby God gains the capital to forgive. These legal and fiscal models for understanding the cross simply will not do.

Jesus does not save us from God, Jesus reveals God as savior. ~Jesus Died for Us...Not for God - Brian Zahnd

 

[ClementofA]

Since the Bible does not say that people who die as sinners cannot be saved postmortem, thus they can receive correction and mercy postmortem. Since they can be saved they will be saved.

Since i didn't argue that, your comment is make-believe. A product of nothing but your own imaginary pretend world. Also a strawman argument.

Read the scripture again.

Jeremiah 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.​

This is God speaking, so don't quote anything but God speaking. Show me where God Himself said about the Israelites He destroyed in Jerem., because they rejected Him, "Oops I changed my mind and now I will have mercy, I will have pity. I will spare and I will undestroy you?

Show me where that quote or context says after He destroyed them, i.e. killed their body, that he would also never have mercy on their - souls - postmortem. If you can't do that, then as far as opposing universalism your verse fails with all the other lame attempts to oppose universalism & is discarded into the trash can of many other failed attempts to oppose universalism.

For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:




..

 

[discipler7]

There seems to be scriptural "proof" for all sides.

The Universalist's main "proof" is that the Bible or Word of God does not specifically disprove universalism, ie does not specifically say that not ALL will be saved.
....... It's like a Universalist saying that the Bible or Word of God does not specifically prohibit pedophilia, sexual harassment, car-speeding, cyberbullying, Internet hacking , identity theft, sex-trafficking, heroin/cocaine addiction, suicide-bombing, etc = such sins should be allowed for Universalists.

 

[ClementofA]

The Universalist's main "proof" is that the Bible or Word of God does not specifically disprove universalism, ie does not specifically say that not ALL will be saved.
....... It's like a Universalist saying that the Bible or Word of God does not specifically prohibit pedophilia, sexual harassment, car-speeding, cyberbullying, Internet hacking , identity theft, sex-trafficking, heroin/cocaine addiction, suicide-bombing, etc = such sins should be allowed for Universalists.

Freewill allows sin. And "hell", even in universalism. St Paul, as Saul, was a Christian persecutor, Inquisitionist & serial killer, of both men and women.


100 Scriptural Proofs That Jesus Christ Will Save All Mankind
100 Scriptural Proofs That Jesus Christ Will Save All Mankind

 

[nChrist]

Good article on the NO side of universal salvation:

Is universalism / universal salvation biblical?

Me, I think that universal salvation is complete nonsense, but I'm too shy on this subject.

 

[discipler7]

Freewill allows sin. And "hell", even in universalism.

So, Universalism allows the continuous practice of sins and still be saved from hell, even if they die and go to "hell".
....... Sounds like a doctrine of demons. ... "8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God."(1JOHN.3: ..)
.

St Paul, as Saul, was a Christian persecutor, Inquisitionist & serial killer, of both men and women.

Did the apostle Paul continued sinning after he was born-again.?(cf; 1COR.6:9-11 = "Such were some of you. But ..."
....... Nevertheless, the Lord Jesus Christ punished Paul for his sins and he eventually died young, ie was executed in Rome. ... "13 Then Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he has done to Your saints in Jerusalem. 14 And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Your name.”
15 But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel. 16 For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name’s sake.”"(ACTS.9: .. )
_ _ _ _ _ _ _
.
JOHN.3: = 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

= those who do not believe in Jesus Christ will perish in everlasting hell and will not be saved from hell when they die = atheists, humanists, Buddhists, Jews, Muslims, Satanists, etc, and maybe even unrepentant sinning/evildoing/law-breaking Universalists.