1 Timothy 2:4 + God does all He desires = all will be saved?

[Der Alte]

Since i didn't argue that, your comment is make-believe. A product of nothing but your own imaginary pretend world. Also a strawman argument.

IOW "I'm right and you're wrong! Am too! Nuh huh!" You may not have said the specific words but that is what you meant.

begin

Show me where that quote or context says after He destroyed them, i.e. killed their body, that he would also never have mercy on their - souls - postmortem. If you can't do that, then as far as opposing universalism your verse fails with all the other lame attempts to oppose universalism & is discarded into the trash can of many other failed attempts to oppose universalism......

end

You keep trying to shift the burden of proof to me when it is all yours. Here is what scripture says.

Jeremiah 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.​

God is speaking in this verse, Can you show me any verse where God Himself is speaking, not Paul or some other writer, said about the Israelites He destroyed in Jer 13:14., because they rejected Him, "Oops I changed my mind and now I will have mercy, I will have pity. I will spare and I will undestroy and save them?

 

[ClementofA]

IOW "I'm right and you're wrong! Am too! Nuh huh!" You may not have said the specific words but that is what you meant.

You should take that gift of reading the minds of anonymous strangers you don't know & have no clue about back to whoever gave it to you & get a full refund or get it repaired. It's broken and not working right!

 

[ClementofA]

So, Universalism allows the continuous practice of sins and still be saved from hell, even if they die and go to "hell".

Yes, Love Omnipotent is powerful & loving enough to save even those who choose to go to "hell fire". Hell is not greater than He is. Nor will sin & death co-rule with Him for eternity.

....... Sounds like a doctrine of demons. ... "8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God."(1JOHN.3: ..)

But in some people's theology He won't "destroy the works of the devil", but they'll reign for all eternity in hell.

Did the apostle Paul continued sinning after he was born-again.?(cf; 1COR.6:9-11 = "Such were some of you. But ..."
....... Nevertheless, the Lord Jesus Christ punished Paul for his sins and he eventually died young, ie was executed in Rome. ... "13 Then Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he has done to Your saints in Jerusalem. 14 And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Your name.”
15 But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel. 16 For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name’s sake.”"(ACTS.9: .. )

If dying in his 60's as an old man means Paul "died young", then you must be right.

100 Scriptural Proofs That Jesus Christ Will Save All Mankind
100 Scriptural Proofs That Jesus Christ Will Save All Mankind

 

[ClementofA]

You keep trying to shift the burden of proof to me when it is all yours. Here is what scripture says.

Jeremiah 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.​

God is speaking in this verse, Can you show me any verse where God Himself is speaking, not Paul or some other writer, said about the Israelites He destroyed in Jer 13:14., because they rejected Him, "Oops I changed my mind and now I will have mercy, I will have pity. I will spare and I will undestroy and save them?

If He didn't have pity - as regards the particular judgment in view - of the context - and killed them, how does that address what happens to them postmortem? Does He say that after He destroys/kills them that He will - never - have mercy on them in the afterlife also? Or is the passage completely silent about any postmortem consequences? Does the context even mention "hell"? No. Compare this a few chapters later from the same book & author:

Jeremiah 21:7
"Then afterwards," declares the LORD, "I will give over Zedekiah king of Judah and his servants and the people, even those who survive in this city from the pestilence, the sword and the famine, into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, and into the hand of their foes and into the hand of those who seek their lives; and he will strike them down with the edge of the sword. He will not spare them nor have pity nor compassion."

Which proves the "not sparing" & not "having pity" is related to this life only and the particular judgement in view - in the context - i.e. being killed..."he will strike them down with the edge of the sword". It has nothing to do with anything beyond this life, or postmortem consequences.

Show me where that quote or context says after He destroyed them, i.e. killed their body, that He would also never have mercy on their - souls - postmortem. If you can't do that, then as far as opposing universalism your verse fails with all the other lame attempts to oppose universalism & is discarded into the trash can of failed attempts to oppose universalism.

Nowhere in Scripture does it say those destroyed (i.e. killed) cannot be saved postmortem. Or that they cannot receive correction and mercy postmortem. 1 Cor.5:4-5 says destruction is for salvation. And Mt.1:21 + 2:6; Rom.11:26; Isa.45:21-25 all Israel shall be saved.

Many scriptures show God's punishments in this life are corrective & there's nothing in the Bible saying that He suddenly changes His ways in that regard postmortem.

Hab.1:12 O LORD my God, my Holy One, you who are eternal--surely you do not plan to wipe us out? O LORD, our Rock, you have sent these Babylonians to correct us, to punish us for our many sins.

Because I have sinned against him, I will bear the LORD’s wrath, until he pleads my case and upholds my cause. He will bring me out into the light;I will see his righteousness. (Micah 7:9)

Isaiah 12:1
Then you will say on that day, "I will give thanks to You, O LORD; For although You were angry with me, Your anger is turned away, And You comfort me.

Hosea 6:1
"Come, let us return to the LORD. For He has torn us, but He will heal us; He has wounded us, but He will bandage us.

Isa.57:17 “Because of the iniquity of his unjust gain I was angry and struck him;
I hid My face and was angry, And he went on turning away, in the way of his heart.

18“I have seen his ways, but I will heal him;
I will lead him and restore comfort to him and to his mourners,

Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.

It seems they will "come to Him" & "be ashamed" of themselves:

Isa.45:24 The people will declare, "The LORD is the source of all my righteousness and strength." And all who were angry with him will come to him and be ashamed.

And he that "comes to Him" shall find rest & He shall not cast out (Mt.11:28; Jn.6:37).

Isa.45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

 

[discipler7]

If dying in his 60's as an old man means Paul "died young", then you must be right.

FYI, Paul (5 - 67AD) spent the last 10 years of his life under arrest or in jail before he was beheaded in Rome by the Roman Emperor Nero. ...
Paul the Apostle - Wikipedia

 

[mkgal1]

....... Nevertheless, the Lord Jesus Christ punished Paul for his sins and he eventually died young, ie was executed in Rome. ...

FYI, Paul (5 - 67AD) spent the last 10 years of his life under arrest or in jail before he was beheaded in Rome by the Roman Emperor Nero. ...
Paul the Apostle - Wikipedia

This is an interesting opinion/assertion. Am I understanding you correctly....are you actually saying that Paul's imprisonment and beheading was God's punishment? If so.....then ALL the hardship the early church persevered through....going by that reasoning....was "God's punishment" (including the murder of Jesus).

I see something else all together in Scripture.

 

[Der Alte]

If He didn't have pity - as regards the particular judgment in view - of the context - and killed them, how does that address what happens to them postmortem? Does He say that after He destroys/kills them that He will - never - have mercy on them in the afterlife also? Or is the passage completely silent about any postmortem consequences? Does the context even mention "hell"? No. Compare this a few chapters later from the same book & author:

Jeremiah 21:7
"Then afterwards," declares the LORD, "I will give over Zedekiah king of Judah and his servants and the people, even those who survive in this city from the pestilence, the sword and the famine, into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, and into the hand of their foes and into the hand of those who seek their lives; and he will strike them down with the edge of the sword. He will not spare them nor have pity nor compassion."

God gives king Zedekiah over to Nebuchadnezzar and he,Nebuchadnezzar not God, will not spare them nor have pity nor compassion. How does what a pagan King does in battle say anything about what God does to those He has destroyed?

Which proves the "not sparing" & not "having pity" is related to this life only and the particular judgement in view - in the context - i.e. being killed..."he will strike them down with the edge of the sword". It has nothing to do with anything beyond this life, or postmortem consequences.
Show me where that quote or context says after He destroyed them, i.e. killed their body, that He would also never have mercy on their - souls - postmortem. If you can't do that, then as far as opposing universalism your verse fails with all the other lame attempts to oppose universalism & is discarded into the trash can of failed attempts to oppose universalism.
Nowhere in Scripture does it say those destroyed (i.e. killed) cannot be saved postmortem. Or that they cannot receive correction and mercy postmortem. 1 Cor.5:4-5 says destruction is for salvation. And Mt.1:21 + 2:6; Rom.11:26; Isa.45:21-25 all Israel shall be saved.

Many scriptures show God's punishments in this life are corrective & there's nothing in the Bible saying that He suddenly changes His ways in that regard postmortem.
Hab.1:12 O LORD my God, my Holy One, you who are eternal--surely you do not plan to wipe us out? O LORD, our Rock, you have sent these Babylonians to correct us, to punish us for our many sins.
Because I have sinned against him, I will bear the LORD’s wrath, until he pleads my case and upholds my cause. He will bring me out into the light;I will see his righteousness. (Micah 7:9)
Isaiah 12:1
Then you will say on that day, "I will give thanks to You, O LORD; For although You were angry with me, Your anger is turned away, And You comfort me.
Hosea 6:1
"Come, let us return to the LORD. For He has torn us, but He will heal us; He has wounded us, but He will bandage us.
Isa.57:17 “Because of the iniquity of his unjust gain I was angry and struck him;
I hid My face and was angry, And he went on turning away, in the way of his heart.
18“I have seen his ways, but I will heal him;
I will lead him and restore comfort to him and to his mourners,
Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
It seems they will "come to Him" & "be ashamed" of themselves:
Isa.45:24 The people will declare, "The LORD is the source of all my righteousness and strength." And all who were angry with him will come to him and be ashamed.
And he that "comes to Him" shall find rest & He shall not cast out (Mt.11:28; Jn.6:37).
Isa.45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

You keep repeating the same logical fallacy over and over "Nowhere in Scripture does it say those destroyed (i.e. killed) cannot be saved postmortem. Or that they cannot receive correction and mercy postmortem." And you think this proves the UR argument. Evidently assume that if the Bible does not specifically say that God will not save anyone after death that somehow proves that He will.
.....I post what scripture says, not what it does not say. If you cannot post any scripture where God, Himself, is speaking saying the He, God, will have ultimately pity, have mercy, and spare the Israelites and Judaeans He destroyed, in Jeremiah 13:14, then your entire house of cards crumbles. Once again God, Himself, not anyone else, speaking.

 

[ClementofA]

God gives king Zedekiah over to Nebuchadnezzar and he,Nebuchadnezzar not God, will not spare them nor have pity nor compassion. How does what a pagan King does in battle say anything about what God does to those He has destroyed?

Are you not aware of God using humans, or even Satan:

Hab.1:12 O LORD my God, my Holy One, you who are eternal--surely you do not plan to wipe us out? O LORD, our Rock, you have sent these Babylonians to correct us, to punish us for our many sins.

1 Cor.5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

 

[ClementofA]

If you cannot post any scripture where God, Himself, is speaking saying the He, God, will have ultimately pity, have mercy, and spare the Israelites and Judaeans He destroyed, in Jeremiah 13:14, then your entire house of cards crumbles. Once again God, Himself, not anyone else, speaking.

How many times have universal salvation Scriptures been posted? Just look at the OP of this thread. No one has refuted this:

Premise 1: God desires all be saved.... 1 Timothy 2:4: "[God] who desires(THELO) all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."

Premise 2: God does all He desires(THELO, Strongs #2709) (Isa.55:11; Psa.115:3; 135:6).

Conclusion: All will be saved

Supporting verses:

Our God is in the heavens; he does all that he pleases(THELO) (Psalm 115:3).

Whatever the LORD pleases(THELO), He does, In heaven and in earth, in the seas and in all deeps (Psalm 135:6).

"So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire(THELO), And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it." (Isaiah 55:11).

100 Scriptural Proofs That Jesus Christ Will Save All Mankind
100 Scriptural Proofs That Jesus Christ Will Save All Mankind

 

[sdowney717]

God's desire is that all men everywhere repent and believe and be saved, but that scripture does not say that is His 'WILL'.

1 Timothy 2:4
who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

If it was God's will that all the evil people of this world, those in the flesh were to be saved, then they all the wicked all over would be saved and be filled with His Spirit. But that is not what happens, because it is not God's will.

God commands all people all over repent and believe, read acts 17, but most do not obey the commandment, they remain disobedient and the disobedient die, yet some will believe.

For the CHURCH, it is God's WILL that we be sanctified, and all of us in His church are being and are sanctified by the blood of Christ, so then we do not experience His wrath.

But the disobedient stumble over Christ and perish, to which they also WERE APPOINTED beforehand.

1 Peter 2:6-8 New King James Version (NKJV)
6 Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture,

“Behold, I lay in Zion
A chief cornerstone, elect, precious,
And he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame.”

7 Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient,

“The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone,”

8 and

“A stone of stumbling
And a rock of offense.”

They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.

 

[sdowney717]

Jude also exposes that about this condemnation , those men were marked out LONG AGO, so then before their births, meaning it was foretold, prophesied, predetermined their condemnation. And the result is their eternal destruction.
If God destroys someone because they are do not believe HIM, such a destruction results in a vengeance of an eternal fire.

God's wrath is only appeased by the blood of Christ applied as in a 'sprinkling' so your covered with His blood, because you believed in His Son, His death and His resurrection, so you are spared from His wrath.

3 Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. 4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Old and New Apostates
5 But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

 

[Der Alte]

Are you not aware of God using humans, or even Satan:
Hab.1:12 O LORD my God, my Holy One, you who are eternal--surely you do not plan to wipe us out? O LORD, our Rock, you have sent these Babylonians to correct us, to punish us for our many sins.
1 Cor.5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

God certainly uses men to accomplish His will but anything, everything a man does in this life has absolutely no bearing on what God will/will not do to others in the judgement.

 

[John tower]

I've read many comments by Christians who advocate universalism on these forums. None have ever said what you attribute to them. Here's the ABC's of universalism for those who are misinformed on the subject:

Statement of Faith -- Please Read

7 Myths About Universalism

( 12 ) : ” DID CHRIST COME TO SAVE EVERYBODY ? “
September 4, 2017gigoboy777 Leave a comment


JOHN 18 ( 37 ) : ” FOR THIS CAUSE CAME I INTO THE WORLD , THAT I SHOULD BEAR WITNESS UNTO THE TRUTH : EVERYONE THAT IS OF THE TRUTH HEARETH MY VOICE ! ” What does : Everyone that is OF THE TRUTH mean in this verse ? Is not everyone of the truth : Or are just a select few OF THE TRUTH ? Over and over Christ repeated : He that hath ears to hear, let him hear ! Was it not possible for all to hear, or are just a select few enabled to hear ? Christ said that his sheep could hear his voice , but others could not hear his word : JOHN 10 ( 27 ) : ” My sheep hear my voice . ” and JOHN 8 ( 43 ) : ” Why do you not understand my speech , even because you ” CANNOT ” hear my word . ” So then , how are some able to hear, and others CANNOT ? : MATTHEW 11 ( 25 ) : ” I thank thee o father , Lord of heaven and earth , because THOU HAST HID THESE THINGS from the wise and prudent , and HAST REVEALED THEM UNTO BABES . ” and MATTHEW 13 ( 11 ) : ” It is GIVEN UNTO YOU to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven , but TO THEM IT IS NOT GIVEN ! ” Christ clearly said in these verses that God has purposely hidden his truth from some and revealed it unto others . JOHN 12 ( 39&40 ) : ” 39 : ” Therefore THEY COULD NOT BELIEVE , because that Esaias said again . ” 40 : ” HE hath blinded their eyes and hardened their heart that they should not see . ” These two verses clearly state that there are those who just CANNOT , not would not , but COULD NOT believe because GOD CLOSED THEIR HEARTS , AND HARDENED THEIR HEARTS ! ” JOHN 6 ( 44 ) : ” No man can come to me EXCEPT THE FATHER DRAW HIM . ” and JOHN 6 ( 37 ) : ” ALL THAT THE FATHER GIVETH ME shall come to me . ” and PSALMS 65 ( 4 ) : ” Blessed is the man whom THOU CHOOSEST AND CAUSEST TO APPROACH UNTO THEE ! ” : These verses clearly state that ONLY THOSE THAT GOD DRAWS OR CHOOSES CAN COME TO CHRIST : NOT EVERYBODY ! CHRIST CLEARLY STATED THAT HE WAS NOT HERE FOR ALL , but only certain chosen ones : JOHN 13 ( 18 ) : ” I speak NOT OF YOU ALL , I know WHOM I HAVE CHOSEN ! ” MATTHEW 22 ( 14 ) : ” Many are called but FEW ARE CHOSEN ! ” : Christ clearly stated here that his people were CHOSEN , and that they were THE FEW , NOT EVERYBODY ! These few chosen are referred to in the bible as THE ELECT : MARK 13 ( 20 ) : ” FOR THE ELECT’S SAKE , WHOM HE HATH CHOSEN. “, and CHRIST CAME HERE ONLY FOR THIS ELECT, and does things ONLY FOR THIS ELECT . NOT THE WHOLE WORLD : MARK 13 ( 20 ) : ” And except that the Lord had shortened those days , no flesh should be saved , but FOR THE ELECT’S SAKE , WHOM HE HATH CHOSEN , he hath shortened the days . ” and MATTHEW 24 ( 31 ) : ” He shall send his angels , and they shall gather together HIS ELECT from the four winds . ” CHRIST PRAYS ONLY FOR HIS ELECT , NOT THE WORLD : JOHN 17 ( 9 ) : ” I pray for THEM , I PRAY NOT FOR THE WORLD , but for THEM WHICH THOU HAST GIVEN ME . ” Christ also told us not to give his pearls of truth to everybody but just for his elect : MATTHEW 7 ( 6 ) : ” Give not that which is holy unto the dogs , neither cast ye your pearls before swine . ” He told us go rather to the lost sheep, NOT EVERYBODY ! So this teaching in the main stream churches that Christ loves everybody , and came to save everybody is just another one of their endless lies : ROMANS 9 ( 13&18 ) : 13 : ” As it is written : Jacob have I loved BUT ESAU HAVE I HATED . ” 18 : ” Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy , and whom he will HE HARDENETH . ” If it were true that Christ came to save everybody, this would mean that Christ was a failure because obviously millions reject Christ and are not saved : BUT THE REAL TRUTH IS THAT CHRIST CAME ONLY FOR HIS ELECT , AND NONE OF THEM ARE LOST, AND CHRIST IS A 100% SUCCESS IN HIS TRUE MINISTRY IN HIS ELECT : JOHN 6 ( 39 ) : ” This is the father’s will , that OF ALL WHICH HE HATH GIVEN ME I SHOULD ” LOSE NOTHING ! “

 

[John tower]

Does universalism rule out human libertarian free will? Certainly not. God may keep after the lost until He finds the last one (Lk.15). He has all eternity & unlimited offers of salvation for each individual. Mathematically it's impossible for anyone to reject Him forever. So the existence of free will does not refute the OP:

Premise 1: God desires all be saved.... 1 Timothy 2:4: "[God] who desires(THELO) all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."

Premise 2: God does all He desires(THELO, Strongs #2709) (Isa.55:11; Psa.115:3; 135:6).

Conclusion: All will be saved

True or false?

Supporting verses:

Our God is in the heavens; he does all that he pleases(THELO) (Psalm 115:3).

Whatever the LORD pleases(THELO), He does, In heaven and in earth, in the seas and in all deeps (Psalm 135:6).

"So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire(THELO), And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it." (Isaiah 55:11).

No such thing as libertarian free will : Eph 1(11): He works all things after the counsel of his will : ALL THINGS : leaves no place for our supposed free will !

 

[mkgal1]

If it were true that Christ came to save everybody, this would mean that Christ was a failure because obviously millions reject Christ and are not saved : BUT THE REAL TRUTH IS THAT CHRIST CAME ONLY FOR HIS ELECT , AND NONE OF THEM ARE LOST, AND CHRIST IS A 100% SUCCESS IN HIS TRUE MINISTRY IN HIS ELECT : JOHN 6 ( 39 ) : ” This is the father’s will , that OF ALL WHICH HE HATH GIVEN ME I SHOULD ” LOSE NOTHING !

Maybe in this age.....but the Bible does say this:

" When I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw everyone to me.”~John 12:32
**********
Jesus must remain in heaven until the restoration of all things, about which God spoke long ago through his holy prophets.~Acts 3:21
************
In the same way that everyone dies in Adam, so also everyone will be given life in Christ.~1st Corinthians 15:22
*************
Who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.~1 Timothy 2:4
***********
The grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people.~Titus 2:11
************
The Lord isn’t slow to keep his promise, as some think of slowness, but he is patient toward you, not wanting anyone to perish but all to change their hearts and lives.~2nd Peter 3:9

 

[discipler7]

" When I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw everyone to me.”~John 12:32

.
JOHN.12: (NKJV) =
30 Jesus answered and said, “This voice did not come because of Me, but for your sake. 31 Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. 32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.” 33 This He said, signifying by what death He would die.

JOHN.3: = 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _

"will draw all peoples to Myself" does not mean all the peoples who are drawn to Jesus Christ will also believe in Him. JOHN.12 stated that the lifting up of Jesus Christ was to bring judgment of this world. Similarly for JOHN.3.

A very pretty girl in a school-class will also likely draw the attention of all the boys in the class. Does that mean all the boys in the class will marry her.?

 

[mkgal1]

JOHN.12 stated that the lifting up of Jesus Christ was to bring judgment of this world. Similarly for JOHN.3.

"For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him."~John 3:17

GOD’S GRACE IS SO POWERFUL THAT IT HAS THE CAPACITY TO OVERCOME OUR NATURAL RESISTANCE TO IT. —R.C. SPROUL​

 

[Der Alte]

No such thing as libertarian free will : Eph 1(11): He works all things after the counsel of his will : ALL THINGS : leaves no place for our supposed free will !

Note this passage from Jeremiah. God said “I have caused to cleave” That word is הדבקתי/ha’dabaq’thi. It is in the perfect or completed sense. God’s will, expressly stated, for the whole house of Israel and Judah, to cling to God as a belt clings to a man’s waist. It was done, finished, completed, in God’s sight, and, according to some arguments, nothing man can do will cause God’s will to not be done. But they, Israel and Judah, would not hear and obey, their will, vs. God’s will, So God destroyed them, vs. 14.
…..This passage very much speaks to God’s sovereign will, and man’s free will and agency. God stated very clearly what His will was, in terms that cannot be misunderstood. But, because the Israelites and Judeans would not hear, and obey, God destroyed them, instead of them being unto God, “for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory, vs. 10.”

Jer 13:1 Thus saith the LORD unto me, Go and get thee a linen girdle, and put it upon thy loins, and put it not in water.
2 So I got a girdle according to the word of the LORD, and put it on my loins.
3 And the word of the LORD came unto me the second time, saying,
4 Take the girdle that thou hast got, which is upon thy loins, and arise, go to Euphrates, and hide it there in a hole of the rock.
5 So I went, and hid it by Euphrates, as the LORD commanded me.
6 And it came to pass after many days, that the LORD said unto me, Arise, go to Euphrates, and take the girdle from thence, which I commanded thee to hide there.
7 Then I went to Euphrates, and digged, and took the girdle from the place where I had hid it: and, behold, the girdle was marred, it was profitable for nothing.
8 Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
9 Thus saith the LORD, After this manner will I mar the pride of Judah, and the great pride of Jerusalem.
10 This evil people, which refuse to hear my words, which walk in the imagination of their heart, and walk after other gods, to serve them, and to worship them, shall even be as this girdle, which is good for nothing.
11 For as the girdle cleaveth to the loins of a man, so have I caused to cleave [הדבקתי/ha’dabaq’thi] unto me the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah, saith the LORD; that they might be unto me for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory: but they would not hear.
· · ·
14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.​

Note, verse 14, God said He will NOT have pity, will NOT spare, and will NOT have mercy but destroy them.

 

[mkgal1]

"will draw all peoples to Myself" does not mean all the peoples who are drawn to Jesus Christ will also believe in Him.

Here's another commentary on that passage in John 3 and John 12:32:

"When I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw everyone to me.”~John 12:32:

------>(John 3:14-15 ESV) 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.

This is a reference to Numbers 21:9, and is a very creative and surprising metaphor. The Israelites who looked at the serpent crafted by Moses were healed of snake bites. Those who look at Jesus on the cross are healed of the curse that came because of the serpent’s temptation of Adam and Eve.~
Jay F Guin

 

[mkgal1]

God's desire is that all men everywhere repent and believe and be saved, but that scripture does not say that is His 'WILL'.

So....what's the difference there? He wishes....but He has another plan? That sounds sort of conflicted to me. Almost like a god that's uncertain....unsure.

And you get excited about a god like that? One that's not very victorious at all. Also....there's that song that's so commonly sung in modern churches, "He Reigns"....how can that be sung with a belief like that, where His desire is only minimally carried out in the end?