“Herd Immunity.” The flawed science and failures of mass vaccination.

[seashale76]

You do know thats not normally done, unless there is some compelling reason, its not the norm.

It's a recommended thing for everyone and it's perfectly normal. I don't know where you've been.

CDC Features - Adults Need Immunizations, Too

 

[Dave Ellis]

Because I developed symptoms the same night, in concert with a strong allergic reaction, and my doctor told me that it was because of the vaccination. He could have been wrong, of course...

If you developed symptoms the same night, then it wasn't the vaccine.

First off, not only are vaccines non-active, so they can't make you sick.... but even if they were, it takes a few days for a flu to start showing symptoms.

 

[LOVEthroughINTELLECT]

“Vaccination works,” my father, a doctor, tells me, “by enlisting a majority in the protection of a minority.” He means the minority of the population that is particularly vulnerable to a disease. The elderly, in the case of influenza. Newborns, in the case of pertussis. Pregnant women, in the case of rubella. When relatively wealthy white women choose to vaccinate our children, we may also be participating in the protection of poor black children whose single mothers have not, as a result of circumstance rather than choice, fully vaccinated them. This is a radical inversion of the historical approach to vaccination, which was once just another form of bodily servitude extracted from the poor for the benefit of the privileged. There is some truth now to the idea that public health is not strictly for people like me, but it is through us — literally through our bodies — that public health is maintained." -- The Class Politics of Vaccination

 

[Nithavela]

Well for one, if your flu like symptoms weren't due to your allergic reaction, disease doesn't show itself that fast usually. You were probably unlucky and were already infected before you got the shot, unless it was mega bad flu that year. It usually takes around 2 or 3 days to show symptoms.

Maybe I misremember things and the real flu outbreak took a few days. I was 13 at the time and between a full body rash, a running nose and fever, a bit confused. Also, some sources I find online say that rarely, the flu can take only a few hours, and maybe I got the shot in the morning.

I also had a lot of vaccinations which went without a hitch. And when I got vaccinated against the flu a few years ago because my father had a weakened immune system because of medication, everything went fine. It was just this one time I got knocked out by a flu shot.

 

[KCfromNC]

“Herd Immunity.” The flawed science and failures of mass vaccination, Suzanne Humphries, MD | International Medical Council on Vaccination

This article starts with the lie that there's "little proof" any diseases have been eliminated through vaccination. Reality disagrees - smallpox and polio are perfectly good counter arguments, and that's hardly hidden knowledge. Is this article intended to be parody?

Theres also this (starting with the post at the top):
Why do so many folks not Vaccinate their kids? - Page 2 | Mark's Daily Apple Health and Fitness Forum page 2

Random unbacked claims by some anonymous person on the internet? Sure, that's good enough reason to expose my kids to preventable diseases.

 

[selfinflikted]

If you developed symptoms the same night, then it wasn't the vaccine.

First off, not only are vaccines non-active, so they can't make you sick.... but even if they were, it takes a few days for a flu to start showing symptoms.

That depends, I think, on when the vaccine was administered. Nowadays, they used killed pathogens, true enough. But back in the day (maybe 15 years ago?) didn't they just use attenuated live strains of the flue in vaccinations? Though, I agree with you that after exposure, onset of symptoms generally takes a day or two (maybe more).

 

[selfinflikted]

Also, anti-vaxxers are stupid. Stupid. Measles has made a small comeback in California and surrounding, and in Canada. And need we bring up recent polio outbreaks in Somalia, Kenya, Nigeria, Pakistan, and Afghanistan?

 

[PsychoSarah]

Maybe I misremember things and the real flu outbreak took a few days. I was 13 at the time and between a full body rash, a running nose and fever, a bit confused. Also, some sources I find online say that rarely, the flu can take only a few hours, and maybe I got the shot in the morning.

I also had a lot of vaccinations which went without a hitch. And when I got vaccinated against the flu a few years ago because my father had a weakened immune system because of medication, everything went fine. It was just this one time I got knocked out by a flu shot.

Well, seeing as flu shots now are often not live impaired viruses anymore but dead ones, the risk of that happening has dropped.

 

[Nithavela]

I'm sure that getting ill from a shot was even back then a one in a million thing, and has surely dropped further. It's way more dangerous to drive to the vaccination than to get the vaccination.

 

[Gadarene]

Also, anti-vaxxers are stupid. Stupid. Measles has made a small comeback in California and surrounding, and in Canada. And need we bring up recent polio outbreaks in Somalia, Kenya, Nigeria, Pakistan, and Afghanistan?

Yeah, normally I'd shy away from that kind of statement, but they really are. They are actively and demonstrably causing a serious resurgence in some rather unpleasant illnesses - they could even be eradicated now but for MUH INDIVIDUALISM and BOO "BIG PHARMA"

 

[jayem]

Well, seeing as flu shots now are often not live impaired viruses anymore but dead ones, the risk of that happening has dropped.

True. It's impossible to get influenza from an inactivated viral vaccine. One can have an allergic reaction to proteins from the eggs in which the virus is grown. (There is a flu vaccine made with virus grown in egg-free cell culture, and also one made by recombinant techniques with no actual virus at all.) But Flumist, the nasal spray, is a live virus vaccine, and is not recommended for certain patients.

BTW: A study just came out that reviews the literature on anti-viral medications used to treat flu after the symptoms begin. Tamiflu only shortened symptoms by 17 hours (14 hours for Relenza.) And there was no data that either Tamiflu or Relenza reduced the incidence of serious complications or hospitalization. Our government has spent > $1B to stockpile these medications in case of a major epidemic. But there's apparently no evidence that they provide much benefit.

Tamiflu and Relenza review questions effectiveness against flu - Medical News Today

 

[selfinflikted]

Yeah, normally I'd shy away from that kind of statement, but they really are.

Well, you know me. I often just spout off, but this time all the research, biology, and facts are behind me. So I feel pretty good about it when I say...

Anti-vaxxers are stupid.

 

[Paulos23]

Having parents that lived in an age when childhood diseases where not simple things you just stayed home from school for, they killed and maimed children, I support mandatory vacinations. I have turned family members away that didn't vacinate before my son could get his shots because I know from the horror stories my parents have told me about friends who got polo, or messeles.

The main reason people don't vacinate? They are not exposed to these horrors today. In their world these diseases are minor inconviences, not deadly horrors. They don't know, don't understand, or don't want to know what they are exposing themselves and their children too. It says something to the success of vacinations that people are more worried about the mijor reactions to the vacinations then the disease itself.

My boy is going to get his shots to have the best chance of getting to adulthood, and his friends as well. If you think your child should not be vacinated, go educate yourself on the horrors you will bring forth.

Heck, right now in Washington State we are on alert because someone has messules and is bring it through the state. I am glad my kid has had his shots now.

 

[mafwons]

Having parents that lived in an age when childhood diseases where not simple things you just stayed home from school for, they killed and maimed children, I support mandatory vacinations. I have turned family members away that didn't vacinate before my son could get his shots because I know from the horror stories my parents have told me about friends who got polo, or messeles.

The main reason people don't vacinate? They are not exposed to these horrors today. In their world these diseases are minor inconviences, not deadly horrors. They don't know, don't understand, or don't want to know what they are exposing themselves and their children too. It says something to the success of vacinations that people are more worried about the mijor reactions to the vacinations then the disease itself.

My boy is going to get his shots to have the best chance of getting to adulthood, and his friends as well. If you think your child should not be vacinated, go educate yourself on the horrors you will bring forth.

Heck, right now in Washington State we are on alert because someone has messules and is bring it through the state. I am glad my kid has had his shots now.

I have lived near the Amish my entire life, the horrors, the last one just died yesterday and they wiped out the population of the town I grew up in, in fact I'm dead as I write this. I believe you need to get educated, propaganda like that makes sheeple even less informed.

 

[selfinflikted]

Informed? A quick biology/immunology lesson:

A killed or attenuated pathogen is introduced into a person with a normal immune system (I say "normal" because there are special circumstances such as people with compromised immune systems, like those of HIV infected individuals). The pathogen then elicits the body's immune system to produce antigens, which the body remembers, to kill the infection. This makes it far easier for the immune system to fight the infectious pathogen one might encounter out in the world.

In a nutshell, this is why vaccinations work. It is a fact of human biology. It is also a fact that the more people are vaccinated, the more herd immunity builds up. What about this can you argue with?

 

[Paulos23]

I have lived near the Amish my entire life, the horrors, the last one just died yesterday and they wiped out the population of the town I grew up in, in fact I'm dead as I write this. I believe you need to get educated, propaganda like that makes sheeple even less informed.

While my post has some strong emotion to it, I am well educated in this.

Measles is serous, so serous they track down where you where if you have it.

Warning issued over measles exposure in Seattle | Local News | The Seattle Times

And in case you don't remember what it can do:

Too young to remember measles? Some facts about a once common childhood disease
WHO | Measles

Polio itself has almost been wiped out:

Poliomyelitis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But, vacinations for these are still needed since it is still out there and given world travel today you never know what will should up. In short, vacinate for your family, for you friends, and for yourself.

And if you are one of the few that can't get vacinated for health or alergies, I hope your friends still do. I have one friend that can't get vacinated and I am glad I can for his sake.

 

[mafwons]

Informed? A quick biology/immunology lesson:

A killed or attenuated pathogen is introduced into a person with a normal immune system (I say "normal" because there are special circumstances such as people with compromised immune systems, like those of HIV infected individuals). The pathogen then elicits the body's immune system to produce antigens, which the body remembers, to kill the infection. This makes it far easier for the immune system to fight the infectious pathogen one might encounter out in the world.

In a nutshell, this is why vaccinations work. It is a fact of human biology. It is also a fact that the more people are vaccinated, the more herd immunity builds up. What about this can you argue with?

I could argue with much of ir but why bother, I just hate to see people who do not believe in vaccinating themselves or their children denigrated for no good reason.

 

[selfinflikted]

I could argue with much of ir but why bother, I just hate to see people who do not believe in vaccinating themselves or their children denigrated for no good reason.

Translation: I cannot argue with facts.

Amirite?

 

[Paulos23]

I could argue with much of ir but why bother, I just hate to see people who do not believe in vaccinating themselves or their children denigrated for no good reason.

When you have a child who is vonerable and have heard enough stories of children dieing from exposure to deasess that are preventable due to vacinations, you get a little mad at people who don't.

 

[mafwons]

When you have a child who is vonerable and have heard enough stories of children dieing from exposure to deasess that are preventable due to vacinations, you get a little mad at people who don't.

My father has multiple myeloma and the treatments killed all of his immunity naturally aquired and otherwise, except interestingly enough anthrax, docs tell him not to worry no serious threats in U.S. not even Amish.