Heating up down under

AV1611VET · 2025-10-16T09:38:03-0500

Tinker Grey said:
Another thing Jesus was wrong about.

Jesus knows that climate change hypocrites:

drive gas-powered cars
have cement patios
have glass windows
barbecue on a grill
have fireplaces
drink soda pop
carry CO₂ extinguishers

Servus · 2025-10-16T09:46:02-0500

AV1611VET said:
Jesus knows that climate change hypocrites:

drive gas-powered cars

have cement patios

have glass windows

barbecue on a grill

have fireplaces

drink soda pop

carry CO₂ extinguishers

Fly in jets all over the world to attend climate change seminars. Bill Nye probably has a boatload of frequent flyer miles.

eclipsenow · 2025-10-16T16:33:24-0500

Servus said:
Scores of people haven't been into Climate Change Panic since way before "MAGA". They rolled their eyes at Al Gore's hyperbole decades ago.

This statement is as meaningless as every time Trump ever says "Some people say...."

Servus said:
As Christians Jesus commanded us not to worry about the future (Luke 12:22-34). Therefore Christians should not participate in Climate Change Panic.

(Sighs. This has got to be in the Top 5 anti-climate hymnal for MAGA Christians.)

It's not about panicking - it's about caring. It's about love and justice. It's about reflecting our God-giving responsibilities for stewardship of the garden. It's about hearing the values behind OT commands about not chopping down all the trees when Israel went to war - for 'what have the trees done to you?'

It's about recognising that this planet's biosphere is not OURS to do with what we want, but actually belongs to God - and what we do with it and say about it matters and reflects our heart for God's creativity.

It's about us - in the image of God - caring for the world.

It's about us being faithful servants during these 'last days' (2025 years and counting.)

It's about creation groaning in the expectation of the children of God being revealed (Romans) and us living in light of that.

It's about living out the very gospel itself faithfully as we are meant to love our neighbours and honour the government and obey the law. It's about us realising what love of neighbour and children means, and while not worrying about the future - planning for it as Proverbs commands. "Go to the ant you sluggard!" etc. About opening our eyes outside of our own political peer-group, whispering untruths to us...

It's about minimising harm as we do all this.

It's about leaving a good world for our children and grandchildren.
(AKA it's about reading Calvin!)

Undeceptions is a GREAT apologetics and thought provoking podcast.
It's world leading in production values.
You should try it! Just this once!
Good Earth

sjastro · 2025-10-16T18:09:35-0500

What intrigues me is how the right wing of politics has embraced anti-science and anti-intellectualism.
During my years at university in Australia many years ago I recall what divided the left and right were social and economics issues, climate change was a personal opinion not in influenced by politics.

It was the right wing of politics which played a major role in publicizing the role of fossil fuels with climate change.
Margaret Thatcher was a staunch conservative and Oxford University graduate in Chemistry who leaned heavily on scientific reasoning.
She was one of the first major world leaders to publicly link fossil fuel use to global warming and gave impassioned speeches warning about climate change, ozone depletion, and the need for scientific research and international cooperation. Her speeches helped legitimize climate concerns among center-right governments and laid groundwork for future environmental policy discussions.

By comparison today we have an imbecile of a president who thinks windmill noise causes cancer.

Servus · 2025-10-16T19:16:58-0500

eclipsenow said:
This statement is as meaningless as every time Trump ever says "Some people say...."

(Sighs. This has got to be in the Top 5 anti-climate hymnal for MAGA Christians.)

It's not about panicking - it's about caring. It's about love and justice. It's about reflecting our God-giving responsibilities for stewardship of the garden. It's about hearing the values behind OT commands about not chopping down all the trees when Israel went to war - for 'what have the trees done to you?'

It's about recognising that this planet's biosphere is not OURS to do with what we want, but actually belongs to God - and what we do with it and say about it matters and reflects our heart for God's creativity.

It's about us - in the image of God - caring for the world.

It's about us being faithful servants during these 'last days' (2025 years and counting.)

It's about creation groaning in the expectation of the children of God being revealed (Romans) and us living in light of that.

It's about living out the very gospel itself faithfully as we are meant to love our neighbours and honour the government and obey the law. It's about us realising what love of neighbour and children means, and while not worrying about the future - planning for it as Proverbs commands. "Go to the ant you sluggard!" etc. About opening our eyes outside of our own political peer-group, whispering untruths to us...

It's about minimising harm as we do all this.

It's about leaving a good world for our children and grandchildren.
(AKA it's about reading Calvin!)

Undeceptions is a GREAT apologetics and thought provoking podcast.
It's world leading in production values.
You should try it! Just this once!
Good Earth

Unfortunately the Climate Change folks are total hypocrites in the matter as @AV1611VET pointed out.

I myself have challenged them to give up diving their cars, SUVs and trucks, and that of course is too much to ask. "But, but, I need to get to work, and go shopping, and pick up the kids from soccer practice...".

Servus · 2025-10-16T19:21:34-0500

sjastro said:
What intrigues me is how the right wing of politics has embraced anti-science and anti-intellectualism.
During my years at university in Australia many years ago I recall what divided the left and right were social and economics issues, climate change was a personal opinion not in influenced by politics.

It was the right wing of politics which played a major role in publicizing the role of fossil fuels with climate change.
Margaret Thatcher was a staunch conservative and Oxford University graduate in Chemistry who leaned heavily on scientific reasoning.
She was one of the first major world leaders to publicly link fossil fuel use to global warming and gave impassioned speeches warning about climate change, ozone depletion, and the need for scientific research and international cooperation. Her speeches helped legitimize climate concerns among center-right governments and laid groundwork for future environmental policy discussions.

By comparison today we have an imbecile of a president who thinks windmill noise causes cancer.

Politics is really what Climate Change activism is about. 'Democrats are saving the planet, republicans are destroying it - Vote Democrat'.

eclipsenow · 2025-10-16T21:26:52-0500

Servus said:
Unfortunately the Climate Change folks are total hypocrites in the matter as @AV1611VET pointed out.

I myself have challenged them to give up diving their cars, SUVs and trucks, and that of course is too much to ask. "But, but, I need to get to work, and go shopping, and pick up the kids from soccer practice...".

You have now refused to answer why you think the science is false, and have now dodged our biblical mandate to do what we can. Are you "rotating"? (See heading below.)

In the meantime, I will say you are setting up a false dichotomy strawman.
"Either you believe in climate change and so live in an off-grid permaculture hippie village, or you don't believe in climate change REALLY and are a city-living, latte sipping, energy polluting hypocrite."

It's so common that people have done Phd's in this reaction - but for now I'll note a few things:-

1. Laissez-faire

This argument assumes a far-right economic worldview that it's the individual's responsibility. It's almost laissez-faire! It just brushes away that societal change can EVER be a widespread cultural or legal thing - all the onus is on an extreme individualism that no society in history has achieved - except in a survival-of-the-fittest Mad Max collapse scenario where warlords soon emerge and remove ANY personal choice in the matter! Otherwise - legislation CANNOT be imposed on the marketplace - heaven forbid!

2. Technical ignorance

It also often assumes certain technical biases and prejudices - such as "No society on earth HAS ever run on renewable energy, so no society on earth CAN EVER run on renewable energy!" Therefore the individual should stop whining about climate change and fossil fuels because there's nothing anyone can do anyway - except go live in a cave as a primitive. This view is technically uninformed - verging on utterly blind and ignorant in this day and age - and does NOT want to be told! It's been sponsored by Exxon. Congratulations - Big Oil cares about you enough to pay for your worldview for you. As you repeat this "hypocrite" charge - Big Oil thank the Heartland Institute etc. Money well invested!

3. History of societal change

But history shows the Laissez-faire attitude above is just wrong on so many matters. CFC's were a problem, eroding the ozone layer that protects us from harmful UV's. The international Montreal Protocol banned that!
Lead in petrol harmed our health and lowered the IQ of a whole western generation. We banned it. Unleaded petrol was created.
Smog and acid rain used to hurt people living in cities till we banned certain practices and mandated new ones (like better scrubbers on coal fired chimney stacks.)
Kids used to loose limbs working dangerous machines in the industrial revolution.

Now - while there might have been some discretionary behaviour changes in some instances above (like using a deodorant stick instead of a CFC fuelled spray can) - others - even scientists involved in studying lead poisoning - just COULD NOT buy unleaded petrol back then because it did not exist! It took government action to ban one thing and stimulate the creation of the next product or practice.

The reality of climate change is that unless we ALL give up ALL fossil fuels (and certain land use practices) we are ALL going to suffer!

But, fortunately, some governments DID do something. Germany sponsored renewable energy decades ago - and gradually the cost of wind turbines went down. China started mass producing solar - and the rest is history!

I drive a little petrol Corolla. I do not have a huge amount of money, and cannot buy an EV yet. But I have bought 27 solar panels and solar thermal hot water and 4 batteries and am now mostly off grid! But that took a LONG time, waiting for the price to come down!

In other words - we can do what we can as individuals - but we do live in cities and need jobs and want to use the internet and refrigeration. And why not? As long as our governments back the transition, eventually economies of scale bring the new tech down to a tipping point where it becomes IRRESISTABLE! The energy transition is going to happen faster than people believe!

The problem in America? Arrogance.
When you're raised with this constant message that "you have the right to free speech" the culture seems to hear "I have the right to say my opinion loud and clear - and reject any data I do not like!"

But here's the reality.
Climate change is real.
Trump is lying to you.
Deal with it!

Climate deniers don't debate - they rotate.

Denier: "Here's a climate denial meme I heard in my peer group - fire 1!"
Activist: "Well - actually - there's an answer for 1. If you just check this peer-reviewed scientific article..."

Denier: (Load's character attack) "Fire 2!"
Activist: "That's not very charitable - we're trying to warn society and help. But here are some thoughts about..."

Denier: "Fire 3!"
etc.

I once followed a particular thread (on and off) for about 4 months - and the Denier worked his way through maybe 60 assertions - and then went back to "Fire 1"!

Servus · 2025-10-16T21:38:53-0500

eclipsenow said:
You have now refused to answer why you think the science is false, and have now dodged our biblical mandate to do what we can. Are you "rotating"? (See heading below.)

In the meantime, I will say you are setting up a false dichotomy strawman.
"Either you believe in climate change and so live in an off-grid permaculture hippie village, or you don't believe in climate change REALLY and are a city-living, latte sipping, energy polluting hypocrite."

It's so common that people have done Phd's in this reaction - but for now I'll note a few things:-

1. Laissez-faire
This argument assumes a far-right economic worldview that it's the individual's responsibility. It's almost laissez-faire! It just brushes away that societal change can EVER be a widespread cultural or legal thing - all the onus is on an extreme individualism that no society in history has achieved - except in a survival-of-the-fittest Mad Max collapse scenario where warlords soon emerge and remove ANY personal choice in the matter! Otherwise - legislation CANNOT be imposed on the marketplace - heaven forbid!

2. Technical ignorance
It also often assumes certain technical biases and prejudices - such as "No society on earth HAS ever run on renewable energy, so no society on earth CAN EVER run on renewable energy!" Therefore the individual should stop whining about climate change and fossil fuels because there's nothing anyone can do anyway - except go live in a cave as a primitive. This view is technically uninformed - verging on utterly blind and ignorant in this day and age - and does NOT want to be told! It's been sponsored by Exxon. Congratulations - Big Oil cares about you enough to pay for your worldview for you. As you repeat this "hypocrite" charge - Big Oil thank the Heartland Institute etc. Money well invested!

3. History of societal change
But history shows the Laissez-faire attitude above is just wrong on so many matters. CFC's were a problem, eroding the ozone layer that protects us from harmful UV's. The international Montreal Protocol banned that!
Lead in petrol harmed our health and lowered the IQ of a whole western generation. We banned it. Unleaded petrol was created.
Smog and acid rain used to hurt people living in cities till we banned certain practices and mandated new ones (like better scrubbers on coal fired chimney stacks.)
Kids used to loose limbs working dangerous machines in the industrial revolution.

Now - while there might have been some discretionary behaviour changes in some instances above (like using a deodorant stick instead of a CFC fuelled spray can) - others - even scientists involved in studying lead poisoning - just COULD NOT buy unleaded petrol back then because it did not exist! It took government action to ban one thing and stimulate the creation of the next product or practice.

The reality of climate change is that unless we ALL give up ALL fossil fuels (and certain land use practices) we are ALL going to suffer!

But, fortunately, some governments DID do something. Germany sponsored renewable energy decades ago - and gradually the cost of wind turbines went down. China started mass producing solar - and the rest is history!

I drive a little petrol Corolla. I do not have a huge amount of money, and cannot buy an EV yet. But I have bought 27 solar panels and solar thermal hot water and 4 batteries and am now mostly off grid! But that took a LONG time, waiting for the price to come down!

In other words - we can do what we can as individuals - but we do live in cities and need jobs and want to use the internet and refrigeration. And why not? As long as our governments back the transition, eventually economies of scale bring the new tech down to a tipping point where it becomes IRRESISTABLE! The energy transition is going to happen faster than people believe!

The problem in America? Arrogance.
When you're raised with this constant message that "you have the right to free speech" the culture seems to hear "I have the right to say my opinion loud and clear - and reject any data I do not like!"

But here's the reality.
Climate change is real.
Trump is lying to you.
Deal with it!

Climate deniers don't debate - they rotate.
Denier: "Here's a climate denial meme I heard in my peer group - fire 1!"
Activist: "Well - actually - there's an answer for 1. If you just check this peer-reviewed scientific article..."

Denier: (Load's character attack) "Fire 2!"
Activist: "That's not very charitable - we're trying to warn society and help. But here are some thoughts about..."

Denier: "Fire 3!"
etc.

I once followed a particular thread (on and off) for about 4 months - and the Denier worked his way through maybe 60 assertions - and then went back to "Fire 1"!

Many if not most climate change activists don't do everything they can. At best they only make token gestures. There's a difference between knowing that climate change has always existed and believing / claiming the world is coming to an end. If people really believed that, they'd at least stop driving their carbon spewing vehicles. But they don't. It's really mostly about politics.

Tuur · 2025-10-16T21:46:01-0500

Servus said:
Politics is really what Climate Change activism is about. 'Democrats are saving the planet, republicans are destroying it - Vote Democrat'.

To the point, how many who have been preaching AGW have bought beachfront property?

Bob Crowley · 2025-10-16T22:26:11-0500

When I posted the original OP about high temperatures in NW Australia, I didn't expect it to devolve into two competing camps regarding climate change.

But before I get into my own thoughts, I'll add a bit more news about record October temperatures in two capital cities - Adelaide and Melbourne.

Two of Australia's capital cities on track for warmest October on record

Unseasonable temperatures have lasted along the eastern seaboard for weeks — which has Sydney, and possibly Brisbane, on track to observe their warmest October on record.

www.abc.net.au

On climate change, I think it's happening. For our part we do a limited amount - we've got a small array of solar panels which we've kept below a certain threshold as we lose the government subsidy if we exceed a certain amount. We still generate more power than we use in general consumption, excluding hot water. The subsidy finishes in 2028 so then we'll have to think about expanding the system and maybe getting a battery.

We have a "Heat pump" HWS (like having an air conditioner bolted on top of the system), we have one hybrid vehicle (petrol or "gas" as in the US) while the older vehicle is petrol only; we have a water tank which doesn't save much water as it is only used for the gardens, a magnetic induction stove to use less power when cooking etc.

But we still create our fair share of CO2, produce heat when we do anything at all; we use less water than the average but we still use water; we try to recycle what we can (it is amazing how much packaging has to be recycled - there must be a significant energy component in doing that); and overall we live in a wasteful society with thousands of cars in peak hours just pouring CO2 into the air and going nowhere.

I think God is going to hold us to account for our incredibly wasteful lifestyles. I believe he put the fossil fuels there and that they were intended to last for centuries. He didn't put them there so we could burn them up in a century or so with our short sighted greed.

And they are running out, so alternatives have to be found whether we like it or not.

For myself I think hydrogen will play a significant part in any future energy system, especially transport. But the infrastructure isn't there, and there is the energy component required to isolate it and store it under very high pressure.

In a Toyota Mirai hydrogen car, the pressure in the tank is about 10,000 psi, or 5 US tons to the square inch. I used to think Scuba tanks had a lot of pressure at about 3000 psi, but hydrogen fuel tanks are more than 3 times as much.

Our cities are designed for independent transport and we all assume we can drive wherever we want, whenever we want. I think a sea change is required in city planning.

In a nutshell, I think climate change is happening and I also think God is going to hold us accountable for our wasteful lifestyles which are exacerbating the problem. He won't fix it either - His attitude will be "You made your bed. You lie on it."

eclipsenow · 2025-10-16T22:27:13-0500

Servus said:
Many if not most climate change activists don't do everything they can.

1. Be careful how you 'measure' effort

Your 'effort' standard of belief is a slippery slope. Be careful, because that kind of argument can backfire. EG: Imagine I was arguing that I don't believe you think prostitution is wrong - because I have not seen you down at the women's refuge helping get ladies off the street.

Or that you don't really disagree with porn, because you have not donated $500 a month to some anti-porn education group.

Or you don't really care about the homelessness, or drug addicts, or crime, or ....

2. This is a government and giant corporation problem - individuals CANNOT solve it!

It's a collective action, like banning CFC's was, like ending child labour in the industrial revolution, like ending slavery!....

As I was trying to point out above - but you just bypassed - we're talking about multi-trillions in energy infrastructure.

Climate change is a global phenomenon. We either ALL wean off fossil fuels - or NONE of us are going to escape this global economic challenge and will get worse, and worse, the longer we leave it. Until.... some nations just go belly up!

Or, to take the positive view: even if all governments DO honour their Paris agreement targets - it's STILL going to take 25 years to build out the Energy Transition ASAP! And that's with BIG GOVERNMENT ACTION like subsidies to encourage the fast tracking of many technologies.

But what do us activists see now?
Trump. Spitting on climate science and scientists (calling them "stupid people" at the UN! Boy that man has the worst case of Dunning-Krueger's I've ever seen!)

Globally, big oil get tax kickbacks to the tune of HALF a TRILLION dollars a year!

Propping up global oil markets keeps the Petro-dictators in business, like the Middle-East, Venezuela and RUSSIA! It's literally funding the war in Ukraine!

Fossil fuels KILL us and cost us $5 TRILLION a year in EXTRA health bills.

Oh - but because you're American, and MAGA. So you just sneer at it all.

You feel entitled to tell individuals they're not sincere because they haven't done enough to standards you don't even believe in! You can't see enough effort! Do you know how rude and unrealistic and judgemental that is?

Dude - nice. Hey - do you care that America has 5 times the jails of any other OECD nation? What are you DOING about that? I don't think it's enough...

Also:-

You're rotating.

Fire 1! "Climate change has always happened - and it's exaggerated."
I ask for evidence, and I reply with evidence FOR climate change, and you just move on to....

Fire 2! "The bible says do not worry about the future!"
I reply with some quick biblical evidence for an environmental theory, and a link to the Undeceptions podcast that addresses that question in more detail, and point out about how even Calvin wrote about our duty to hand over our farmlands to the next generation in a better condition than we received them in... so you replied with...

Fire 3! "You're all hypocrites and do not believe it anyway."
Energy is a communal system with multi-trillions in investment that is GOING to take 25 years even if governments DO keep their Paris agreement targets!

And are you going to reply with ACTUAL EVIDENCE for any of your silly, groundless assertions above - or just move onto Fire 4!?

eclipsenow · 2025-10-16T22:40:12-0500

Bob Crowley said:
We have a "Heat pump" HWS (like having an air conditioner bolted on top of the system), we have one hybrid vehicle (petrol or "gas" as in the US) while the older vehicle is petrol only; we have a water tank which doesn't save much water as it is only used for the gardens, a magnetic induction stove to use less power when cooking etc.

Awesome! You can only do what you can afford at the time. As I said above, the Energy Transition will take 25 years or so even IF crazy climate deniers like Trump are all kicked out of government.

Bob Crowley said:
But we still create our fair share of CO2, produce heat when we do anything at all; we use less water than the average but we still use water; we try to recycle what we can (it is amazing how much packaging has to be recycled - there must be a significant energy component in doing that); and overall we live in a wasteful society with thousands of cars in peak hours just pouring CO2 into the air and going nowhere.

Of course - and it feels awful.

I thought of renaming my blog "The Lazy Environmentalist" because I feel exactly this guilt - and wish society could fix umpteen systems I am currently forced to use. I have a LOT of technical hope in various answers emerging - and listen to way too many podcasts about this stuff.

Bob Crowley said:
I think God is going to hold us to account for our incredibly wasteful lifestyles. I believe he put the fossil fuels there and that they were intended to last for centuries. He didn't put them there so we could burn them up in a century or so with our short sighted greed.

I agree! At first, when the global population and coal use were both so much smaller, the move to coal was a net environmental gain! It was a more energy dense source of heat than firewood - and it let the forests regrow!

But once we got to say the 1950's I wish society had moved into nuclear big time - until we had developed modern renewables. Fossil fuels would have been a great source of chemical feedstocks for many millennia if we had avoided just BURNING them all as fast as we did.

(There are new nuclear reactor designs that can burn nuclear waste! They're called breeder reactors, and they burn through all the extra energy that keeps nuclear waste radioactive for 100,000 years. By the time waste has been through the breeder a few times, it's so "hot" it burns itself back to safe levels in just 300 years. Great idea - but unfortunately way too expensive. Renewables are faster and safer and going to be VASTLY cheaper!)

Bob Crowley said:
And they are running out, so alternatives have to be found whether we like it or not.

Exactly! I wish I could believe climate change was all a government hoax to get us to give up fossil fuels before they peaked! Most people have no idea that running OUT isn't the issue, but the moment when they start to RUN DOWN could trigger an economic catastrophe if we didn't have renewables and EV's scaled up to the lower costs we have today!

Bob Crowley said:
For myself I think hydrogen will play a significant part in any future energy system, especially transport. But the infrastructure isn't there, and there is the energy component required to isolate it and store it under very high pressure.

Hydrogen could in large harvesters and airlines. But keep in mind hydrogen takes 3 or 4 times as much energy to make the fuel as it does to just charge an EV in the first place. Also - as you know, Aussie trucks are INSANE! America has something like a 36 tonne limit on their trucks - but we have huge trucks. There's no way a Tesla semi could pull our loads! So what to do?

Easy! I'm so proud of this company! They're Aussie - with big trucks - so they invented a BATTERY SWAP program for giant trucks!

Janus Electric | Zero Emission Transport

Janus Electric specialises in electrifying road transport by developing zero-carbon battery technology and a unique exchangeable battery system for heavy vehicles by converting diesel electric trucks. Their solution aims to reduce emissions and operational costs by using renewable energy sources...

www.januselectric.com.au

Bob Crowley said:
In a Toyota Mirai hydrogen car, the pressure in the tank is about 10,000 psi, or 5 US tons to the square inch. I used to think Scuba tanks had a lot of pressure at about 3000 psi, but hydrogen fuel tanks are more than 3 times as much.

Goodness!

Bob Crowley said:
Our cities are designed for independent transport and we all assume we can drive wherever we want, whenever we want. I think a sea change is required in city planning.

Oh yeah! Now you're speaking my language. My sister-in-law has a Phd in this stuff - and I have my own hobby blog about it.

Bob Crowley said:
In a nutshell, I think climate change is happening and I also think God is going to hold us accountable for our wasteful lifestyles which are exacerbating the problem. He won't fix it either - His attitude will be "You made your bed. You lie on it."

Amen brother.

He doesn't fix many of our self-induced problems. As Romans 1 suggests - he lets us experience the results. He hands us over to them!

AV1611VET · 2025-10-16T23:03:17-0500

eclipsenow said:
You have now refused to answer why you think the science is false, and have now dodged our biblical mandate to do what we can. Are you "rotating"? (See heading below.)

Where did he say he thinks the science is false?

I believe the climate is changing too.

I just don't believe it is a cause for alarm, as I believe God is going to intervene before it gets to the point that scientists are predicting.

Put another way:

God is in control.

And let's be frank:

Read the book of Revelation.

The climate during the Tribulation period is going to make our climate today look like a summer breeze.

And guess what?

We Christians aren't even going to be here! :oldthumbsup:

Aaron112 · 2025-10-16T23:05:35-0500

AV1611VET said:
The climate during the Tribulation period is going to make our climate today look like a summer breeze.

Ahhh, relax and love it! ...... refreshing in God's Grace, even if and during so-called trib.....

Aaron112 · 2025-10-16T23:09:22-0500

Servus said:
Politics is really what Climate Change activism is about. 'Democrats are saving the planet, republicans are destroying it - Vote Democrat'.

ooops..... God says not to trust politics. Trusting politics, trusting men, brings a curse from God, God declares.

AV1611VET · 2025-10-16T23:14:35-0500

Aaron112 said:
Ahhh, relax and love it! ...... refreshing in God's Grace, even if and during so-called trib.....

I'm not going to go around polishing brass on a sinking ship.

I cut my teeth on science's Y2K scare -- (despite what the Bible says) -- and I vowed I would never let science's doomsday scenarios scare me like that again.

Bob Crowley · 2025-10-16T23:15:57-0500

Oh yeah! Now you're speaking my language. My sister-in-law has a Phd in this stuff - and I have my own hobby blog about it.

I've emailed the link to your blog to my other computer. I'm writing this on my "Vinnies" computer which I should only be using for "Vinnies" stuff.

I'll have a look at it later, and maybe bookmark.

One day I might get around to doing a blog (most likely with a Catholic bias, except for by hobby horse below about contraception). If so I may ask you for advice from time to time.

CONTRACEPTION

I disagree with the Catholic Church's ruling on contraception. As my old pastor thought "I think the Contraceptive Pill was God's gift, given at the very time population pressures were becoming a real problem in some parts of the world."

I could go on about the two committees set up by Pope John XXIII and Pius VI (I think) which BOTH recommended the pill should be available for married couples but a hardline core said they couldn't possibly admit the Protesants were right. Apparently the Protestants haven't got a brain between them.

Let's take modern India for example.

The population of India is now 1.45 billion people - 1,450,000,000.

The area of India is 3.287 milion square kilometres - 3,287,000.

This means the average land avaiable to a modern Indian is 3287000/1450000000 square kilometres, viz. .00223 square kilometres.

Multiplying by 1,000,000 to get square meters, we get 2230 square meters.

The square root of that amount is 47.22 metres.

This means the average block available to the average Indian citizen today is 47 x 47 metres to grow all their food, provide all their water, provide all their energy, with a margin required for roads, buildings, parks, gardens, houses, pets if any, schools, factories, hospitals, military bases etc. etc.

I'm not impressed one bit with the Catholic appeal to "Tradition". God gave us a brain and He expects us to use it.

Servus · 2025-10-17T03:04:43-0500

eclipsenow said:
1. Be careful how you 'measure' effort
Your 'effort' standard of belief is a slippery slope. Be careful, because that kind of argument can backfire. EG: Imagine I was arguing that I don't believe you think prostitution is wrong - because I have not seen you down at the women's refuge helping get ladies off the street.

Or that you don't really disagree with porn, because you have not donated $500 a month to some anti-porn education group.

Or you don't really care about the homelessness, or drug addicts, or crime, or ....

2. This is a government and giant corporation problem - individuals CANNOT solve it!
It's a collective action, like banning CFC's was, like ending child labour in the industrial revolution, like ending slavery!....

As I was trying to point out above - but you just bypassed - we're talking about multi-trillions in energy infrastructure.

Climate change is a global phenomenon. We either ALL wean off fossil fuels - or NONE of us are going to escape this global economic challenge and will get worse, and worse, the longer we leave it. Until.... some nations just go belly up!

Or, to take the positive view: even if all governments DO honour their Paris agreement targets - it's STILL going to take 25 years to build out the Energy Transition ASAP! And that's with BIG GOVERNMENT ACTION like subsidies to encourage the fast tracking of many technologies.

But what do us activists see now?
Trump. Spitting on climate science and scientists (calling them "stupid people" at the UN! Boy that man has the worst case of Dunning-Krueger's I've ever seen!)

Globally, big oil get tax kickbacks to the tune of HALF a TRILLION dollars a year!

Propping up global oil markets keeps the Petro-dictators in business, like the Middle-East, Venezuela and RUSSIA! It's literally funding the war in Ukraine!

Fossil fuels KILL us and cost us $5 TRILLION a year in EXTRA health bills.

Oh - but because you're American, and MAGA. So you just sneer at it all.

You feel entitled to tell individuals they're not sincere because they haven't done enough to standards you don't even believe in! You can't see enough effort! Do you know how rude and unrealistic and judgemental that is?

Dude - nice. Hey - do you care that America has 5 times the jails of any other OECD nation? What are you DOING about that? I don't think it's enough...

Also:-

You're rotating.

Fire 1! "Climate change has always happened - and it's exaggerated."
I ask for evidence, and I reply with evidence FOR climate change, and you just move on to....

Fire 2! "The bible says do not worry about the future!"
I reply with some quick biblical evidence for an environmental theory, and a link to the Undeceptions podcast that addresses that question in more detail, and point out about how even Calvin wrote about our duty to hand over our farmlands to the next generation in a better condition than we received them in... so you replied with...

Fire 3! "You're all hypocrites and do not believe it anyway."
Energy is a communal system with multi-trillions in investment that is GOING to take 25 years even if governments DO keep their Paris agreement targets!

And are you going to reply with ACTUAL EVIDENCE for any of your silly, groundless assertions above - or just move onto Fire 4!?

Like the post above says, individuals can not solve it. As Trump and MAGA are brought up in every post, it's about politics and who you vote for. Stripped down to brass tacks, that's really what all of this is about. Vote left to save the planet.

eclipsenow · 2025-10-17T04:39:23-0500

Servus said:
Vote left to save the planet.

MAGA are the ones that abandoned science and therefore this whole conversation.

You made the Democrats the default for those who respect... reality.

Our ABC shows Trump scoffing at climate science for humour!

Servus · 2025-10-17T05:11:19-0500

eclipsenow said:
MAGA are the ones that abandoned science and therefore this whole conversation.

You made the Democrats the default for those who respect... reality.

Our ABC shows Trump scoffing at climate science for humour!

So I was right. It's mainly about politics. Which is why it's scoffed at by those not committed to that side of politics. Those who go along with ideas like "men menstruate and can become pregnant" (along wth other absurdities) going on about being bastions of science and reality, is something else to scoff at.

Heating up down under

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE

<><

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works

Newbie

<><

<><

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works

1. Laissez-faire​

2. Technical ignorance​

3. History of societal change​

Climate deniers don't debate - they rotate.​

<><

1. Laissez-faire​

2. Technical ignorance​

3. History of societal change​

Climate deniers don't debate - they rotate.​

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works

1. Be careful how you 'measure' effort​

2. This is a government and giant corporation problem - individuals CANNOT solve it!​

You're rotating.​

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE

Well-Known Member

<><

1. Be careful how you 'measure' effort​

2. This is a government and giant corporation problem - individuals CANNOT solve it!​

You're rotating.​

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works

<><