Do the Ten Commandments still apply under the new covenant today?

CoreyD said:

Ignoring Genesis 2:4 the, which says those sis days are one day? Okay.

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Read Genesis 1, it explains it clearly, evening and morning six times is not 1 day., its six days, just as God Testified Exo 20:11. Six days do not equal 1.

SabbathBlessings said:

A covenant means an agreement.

God never made a covenant with an entire nation before Israel. Before they were all individual covenants. So not the same covenant/agreement, it doesn't mean God did not give everyone His instruction for righteousness as we see that Cain knew it was sin to murder which the commandment to thou shalt not murder only comes from God's Ten Commandments. Why some professed Christians try to downsize Gods own Testimony Exo 31:18, I will never understand.

Thankfully, you are not my judge, you will have to stand before Jesus just like everyone else and nothing we can hide from Him Ecc 12:13-14 When we have to resort to name-calling, it just shows where one is in their spiritual walk, so its more of a refection of that person than anyone else. Mat 7:1-5

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Thank you. There is no scripture saying that God gave the ten commandments to Adam, and made a covenant with him based on the ten commandments.
It is written however, that he made a covenant with Israel, and indeed gave them ten commandments, along with other specified laws.
Therefore your claim is not in the Bible, anywhere.
In your head, yes, but is not God's word, so hopefully, you will stop telling lies on God.
Nowhere in the Bible did God give Adam the ten commandments. Okay?

SabbathBlessings said:

Read Genesis 1, it explains it clearly, evening and morning six times is not 1 day., its six days, just as God Testified Exo 20:11. Six days do not equal 1.

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To ignore Genesis 2:4, is to ignore the Bible, in preference of your ideas.
If you want to do that? Go right ahead.

CoreyD said:

To ignore Genesis 2:4, is to ignore the Bible, in preference of your ideas.
If you want to do that? Go right ahead.

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And yet we are to ignore all of Genesis 1 and God’s own Testimony Exo 31:18

CoreyD said:

Thank you. There is no scripture saying that God gave the ten commandments to Adam, and made a covenant with him based on the ten commandments.
It is written however, that he made a covenant with Israel, and indeed gave them ten commandments, along with other specified laws.
Therefore your claim is not in the Bible, anywhere.
In your head, yes, but is not God's word, so hopefully, you will stop telling lies on God.
Nowhere in the Bible did God give Adam the ten commandments. Okay?

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God said they started at Creation right in the Ten Commandments Exo 20:11 and Adam and Eve were made at Creation Gen 1:26 in the image and likeness of God. God’s laws reflects His holy character and man is made in the image of God to take on His character, not the character of the other spirit who is the one wanting to keep us in the bondage of sin 1 John 3:8 and has sadly deceived almost the whole world that we can break God’s commandments (His version) and go away from Gods Testimony despite the warning. Isa 8:20 Rev 12:17 Mat 5:19 Mat 15:3-14 Mat 7:21-23 Rev 22:14-14 etc

Jesus will sort all of this out. When He comes all of our decisions are final Rev 22:11

If something new pops up I may respond but for now I will just have to leave it with agree to disagree. Be well.

Be well.

SabbathBlessings said:

And yet we are to ignore all of Genesis 1 and God’s own Testimony Exo 31:18

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Who's ignoring Genesis 1?
Only those who insist that their ideas are God gifted truth.. which would be the person that claim the six days are literally 24 hours... the person that thinks a day, in Genesis, must be 24 hours... the person that cannot for the life of me, realize that he is wrong, even when shown....
Do I need to go on?

People who read Genesis 1, and see the days for what they they are... a day to Gid, are not ignoring Genesis 1, because Genesis 2:4 refers to those six days as a day.
They are actually agreeing with both Genesis 1, and Genesis 2:l4, and taking them as a day from God's standpoint, thus are in harmony with the scriptures.2 Peter 3:8

You, on the other hand, have the problem.
You need to ignore Genesis 2:4, because you can't twist it to read sis days.

CoreyD said:

Who's ignoring Genesis 1?
Only those who insist that their ideas are God gifted truth.. which would be the person that claim the six days are literally 24 hours... the person that thinks a day, in Genesis, must be 24 hours... the person that cannot for the life of me, realize that he is wrong, even when shown....
Do I need to go on?

People who read Genesis 1, and see the days for what they they are... a day to Gid, are not ignoring Genesis 1, because Genesis 2:4 refers to those six days as a day.
They are actually agreeing with both Genesis 1, and Genesis 2:l4, and taking them as a day from God's standpoint, thus are in harmony with the scriptures.2 Peter 3:8

You, on the other hand, have the problem.
You need to ignore Genesis 2:4, because you can't twist it to read sis days.

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When did one day have six evenings and mornings? God never said He made the heavens and earth in one day, He said six days Exo 20:11 , He wrote it He spoke it, it is His Testimony, I will continue to place my faith in Him

This thread is not about creation week, I would say let’s respectfully not turn this into something outside the OP.

SabbathBlessings said:

So are we just to ignore Rev 12:17 Rev 14:12 Rev 22:14 and beleive that the devil has more power to keep us in sin than God does to deliver us from sin, basically failing what He came to do Mat 1:21 when He promises we can overcome when abiding in Him John 14:15-18 John 15:4,5,10 . Sorry, you will never be able convince of this. No one is saved in their sins Heb 10:26-30 its what the other spirit wants us to beleive 1 John 3:8

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Thanks for your comment — I can see you’re passionate about living faithfully, and I respect your commitment to Scripture and to walking closely with Christ.

As a Catholic, I’d like to offer a different perspective, not to argue, but to clarify where we’re coming from. We absolutely believe that God’s grace is powerful enough to free us from sin — no question there. But we also recognise that the journey of salvation is just that: a journey. It’s not a one-off moment, but a lifelong process of conversion, repentance, and growth in holiness.

When Jesus said He came to save His people from their sins (Matt 1:21), we believe He meant both the consequence of sin and its power over us — but that doesn’t mean we’re instantly perfect. That’s why the sacraments, especially Confession and the Eucharist, are so central to Catholic life. They’re not a licence to sin — they’re lifelines for those of us who know we fall short and need God’s mercy to keep going.

As for the verses you mentioned — we take them seriously too. Revelation 14:12 speaks of those who “keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.” That’s exactly what we strive for, by grace. But we also hold fast to the truth that salvation is a gift, not something we earn by ticking boxes. It’s about abiding in Christ, yes — but also trusting in His mercy when we stumble.

I get that we may not see eye to eye on this, and that’s okay. But I hope we can keep the conversation going with mutual respect, grounded in our shared love for the Lord.

Peace in Christ

Xeno.of.athens said:

Thanks for your comment — I can see you’re passionate about living faithfully, and I respect your commitment to Scripture and to walking closely with Christ.

As a Catholic, I’d like to offer a different perspective, not to argue, but to clarify where we’re coming from. We absolutely believe that God’s grace is powerful enough to free us from sin — no question there. But we also recognise that the journey of salvation is just that: a journey. It’s not a one-off moment, but a lifelong process of conversion, repentance, and growth in holiness.

When Jesus said He came to save His people from their sins (Matt 1:21), we believe He meant both the consequence of sin and its power over us — but that doesn’t mean we’re instantly perfect. That’s why the sacraments, especially Confession and the Eucharist, are so central to Catholic life. They’re not a licence to sin — they’re lifelines for those of us who know we fall short and need God’s mercy to keep going.

As for the verses you mentioned — we take them seriously too. Revelation 14:12 speaks of those who “keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.” That’s exactly what we strive for, by grace. But we also hold fast to the truth that salvation is a gift, not something we earn by ticking boxes. It’s about abiding in Christ, yes — but also trusting in His mercy when we stumble.

I get that we may not see eye to eye on this, and that’s okay. But I hope we can keep the conversation going with mutual respect, grounded in our shared love for the Lord.

Peace in Christ

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Thanks for the post and appreciate giving me better understanding of you and the Catholic perspective

I agree with a lot of what you said, but we probably have different definitions of some things you mentioned.

I do not believe when one first comes to Christ they are made perfect instantaneously, but I believe when one sees Christ for the first time and sees His goodness and falls in love with Him, their life should start changing at that instant. Some churches teach that when you come to believe God, that's it, that's all you have to do, you can continue in the condition of your current life but have the confidence of salvation and I believe this is deceiving many people. Paul is a good example of what a conversion looks like- your life is completely transformed.

God's law- His version is what shows us sin and our condition, so we can truly see ourselves and how we compare to God's righteousness (His right or wrong) so we can go to Christ who is the Great Physician, that when we sin or break God's law, we can go to Him in prayer with a humble heart and ask Him for His forgiveness but also ask in His help in overcoming, because we are told we need to confess our sins and forsake them Pro 28:13 and He can cleanse us of all sin and unrighteousness 1 John 1:9 Jesus did away with the earthy priesthood (Heb7) which was never intended to forgive sins and there is no mediator between God and man 1 Tim 2:5 so I believe confession of sins needs to be private time between God and man as no earthy person can forgive our sins, only God can.

When it comes to God's commandments I believe His Word that He would not alter the words of His covenant Psa 89:34 not a jot or tittle Mat 5:18 and God wrote and spoke the Ten Commandments, it is His written Testimony Exo 31:18 that no man can edit. We were warned they would be edited not by God Dan 7:25 and we see this plainly in history, which the majority have followed instead of being faithful to God's own Testimony, they have followed popular traditions of man. I believe this is another great deception. The 4th commandment is not just the commandment for the Sabbath, which is Saturday Exo 20:10, it is a commandment for all days. Exo 20:8-11 So if we are exalting another day in place of the day God sanctified for holy use, that is a sign of His sanctification Eze 20:12 and a sign He is our God Eze 20:20 than if we are not obeying God the way God said, who in place are we obeying. I do not believe our church can save us, we all need a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and I believe when we fall in love with Him, we are going to want to do what He asks, even if our friends, family and the majority are doing something different. Exo 20:6 John 14:15 John 15:10 1 John 5:3 John 14:6

Xeno.of.athens said:

Thanks for your comment — I can see you’re passionate about living faithfully, and I respect your commitment to Scripture and to walking closely with Christ.

As a Catholic, I’d like to offer a different perspective, not to argue, but to clarify where we’re coming from. We absolutely believe that
God’s grace is powerful enough to free us from sin — no question there.

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Salvation is first and foremost to free us from the wrath of God on sin at the Judgment (Mt 10:28, Lk 12:5, Jn 3:36, Ro 1:18, 2:5, 5:8-9, 6:23, 9:22, 12:19, Eph 2:3, 8-9 5:6, Col 3:6, 1 Th 1;10, 5:9, Heb 10:26-27, 2 Pe 2:9).

Xeno.of.athens said:

But we also recognise that the journey of salvation is just that: a journey. It’s not a one-off moment,

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It is absolutely a "one-off moment" in relation to salvation from God's wrath on sin at the Judgment.

The born again do not lose their salvation from the wrath of God at the Judgment, their inheritance is guaranteed (2 Co 1:22 5:5, Eph 1:13-14).

Xeno.of.athens said:

but a lifelong process of conversion, repentance, and growth in holiness.

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Which does not exclude a "one-off moment" in relation to salvation from Gods wrath on sin at the Judgment.

It's not either/or, it's both/and.

Let's not mitigate the oft-repeated Biblical meaning of "salvation" as from the wrath of God on sin at the Final Judgment.

Clare73 said:

Salvation is first and foremost to free us from the wrath of God on sin at the Judgment (Mt 10:28, Lk 12:5, Jn 3:36, Ro 1:18, 2:5, 5:8-9, 6:23, 9:22, 12:19, Eph 2:3, 8-9 5:6, Col 3:6, 1 Th 1;10, 5:9, Heb 10:26-27, 2 Pe 2:9).

It is absolutely a "one-off moment" in relation to salvation from God's wrath on sin at the Judgment.

The born again do not lose their salvation from the wrath of God at the Judgment, their inheritance is guaranteed (2 Co 1:22 5:5, Eph 1:13-14).

Which does not exclude a "one-off moment" in relation to salvation from Gods wrath on sin at the Judgment.

Let's not mitigate the oft-repeated Biblical meaning of "salvation" as from the wrath of God on sin at the Final Judgment.

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From a Catholic perspective, I affirm that God’s justice is real, and that sin has eternal consequences. The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC 1033–1037) teaches clearly about the reality of hell and the necessity of salvation. However, Catholic tradition offers a holistic and sacramental understanding of salvation—one that is not limited to a single moment, but unfolds as a lifelong journey of grace, faith, and cooperation with God.

While I agree that salvation includes being saved from God’s just wrath, the Catholic Church teaches that salvation is not merely a one-time event, but a lifelong process that begins with baptism, is nourished through the sacraments, and is completed in final perseverance (cf. CCC 161, 1987–2029).

The Evangelical claim that the “born again do not lose their salvation” is rooted in a theology of eternal security. Catholics, however, believe that while God is always faithful, human freedom remains intact. One can fall from grace through mortal sin (cf. 1 Cor 10:12, Heb 6:4–6), which is why the Church calls us to ongoing conversion and reconciliation through the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

This isn’t to instil fear, but to honour the dignity of human cooperation with grace. As St. Paul says, “Work out your salvation with fear and trembling” (Phil 2:12)—not because God is capricious, but because love demands fidelity.

Finally, while the Evangelical statements focus heavily on God’s wrath, Catholic theology insists that God’s justice is never separated from His mercy. Divine wrath is not arbitrary anger, but the expression of God’s holiness in the face of sin. Yet, as Thomas Aquinas wrote, “God’s mercy is not opposed to His justice, but is the interpretation of it.”

The Cross is not where God vents His wrath on Christ instead of us (a view more aligned with penal substitution), but where Christ offers Himself in love, satisfying justice through mercy. As the Catechism puts it: “The sacrifice of Christ is unique; it completes and surpasses all other sacrifices” (CCC 614).

So, to my Evangelical brothers and sisters, I say warmly: yes, salvation delivers us from wrath—but it also invites us into communion, into transformation, and into a life of grace that is lived out daily. It is not a transaction, but a relationship. Not a moment, but a pilgrimage.

And in that, we walk together—sometimes with different emphases, but always under the gaze of the same merciful Father.

Xeno.of.athens said:

From a Catholic perspective, I affirm that God’s justice is real, and that sin has eternal consequences. The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC 1033–1037) teaches clearly about the reality of hell and the necessity of salvation. However, Catholic tradition offers a holistic and sacramental understanding of salvation—one that is not limited to a single moment, but unfolds as a lifelong journey of grace, faith, and cooperation with God.
While I agree that salvation includes being saved from God’s just wrath, the Catholic Church teaches that salvation is not merely a one-time event, but a lifelong process that begins with baptism, is nourished through the sacraments, and is completed in final perseverance (cf. CCC 161, 1987–2029).

“By grace you have been saved through faith… not of works, lest anyone should boast” (Eph 2:8–9) is often cited to support the “one-off” view. But Catholics read this alongside verse 10: “For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works…”—highlighting that faith and works are both essential, not as competing forces, but as cooperative responses to grace.​

​

The Evangelical claim that the “born again do not lose their salvation” is rooted in a theology of eternal security. Catholics, however, believe that while God is always faithful, human freedom remains intact. One can fall from grace through mortal sin (cf. 1 Cor 10:12, Heb 6:4–6), which is why the Church calls us to ongoing conversion and reconciliation through the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

This isn’t to instil fear, but to honour the dignity of human cooperation with grace. As St. Paul says, “Work out your salvation with fear and trembling” (Phil 2:12)—not because God is capricious, but because love demands fidelity.

Finally, while the Evangelical statements focus heavily on God’s wrath, Catholic theology insists that God’s justice is never separated from His mercy. Divine wrath is not arbitrary anger, but the expression of God’s holiness in the face of sin. Yet, as Thomas Aquinas wrote, “God’s mercy is not opposed to His justice, but is the interpretation of it.”

The Cross is not where God vents His wrath on Christ instead of us (a view more aligned with penal substitution), but where Christ offers Himself in love, satisfying justice through mercy. As the Catechism puts it: “The sacrifice of Christ is unique; it completes and surpasses all other sacrifices” (CCC 614).

So, to my Evangelical brothers and sisters, I say warmly: yes, salvation delivers us from wrath—but it also invites us into communion, into transformation, and into a life of grace that is lived out daily. It is not a transaction, but a relationship. Not a moment, but a pilgrimage.

And in that, we walk together—sometimes with different emphases, but always under the gaze of the same merciful Father.

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Previously addressed. . .

Clare73 said:

Previously addressed. . .

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I realise it may have been addressed earlier, but I’d appreciate a fresh take on it now—just to be sure we’re aligned.

Xeno.of.athens said:

Thanks for your comment — I can see you’re passionate about living faithfully, and I respect your commitment to Scripture and to walking closely with Christ.

As a Catholic, I’d like to offer a different perspective, not to argue, but to clarify where we’re coming from. We absolutely believe that God’s grace is powerful enough to free us from sin — no question there. But we also recognise that the journey of salvation is just that: a journey. It’s not a one-off moment, but a lifelong process of conversion, repentance, and growth in holiness.

When Jesus said He came to save His people from their sins (Matt 1:21), we believe He meant both the consequence of sin and its power over us — but that doesn’t mean we’re instantly perfect. That’s why the sacraments, especially Confession and the Eucharist, are so central to Catholic life. They’re not a licence to sin — they’re lifelines for those of us who know we fall short and need God’s mercy to keep going.

As for the verses you mentioned — we take them seriously too. Revelation 14:12 speaks of those who “keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.” That’s exactly what we strive for, by grace. But we also hold fast to the truth that salvation is a gift, not something we earn by ticking boxes. It’s about abiding in Christ, yes — but also trusting in His mercy when we stumble.

I get that we may not see eye to eye on this, and that’s okay. But I hope we can keep the conversation going with mutual respect, grounded in our shared love for the Lord.

Peace in Christ

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You would be surprised how close that mirrors Triune Pentecostal beliefs.

The contexts of the epistles of Paul, when the law is spoken, is clear enough that Paul differentiated the law of rites, and the law of faith, which is goes hand in hand with the commandments of life. That is, no one after Christ is saved with regard to the due perfomance of such laws, as circumcision, and earlier sacrifices, etc, but everyone is saved by Christ via faith and charity, or commandments of life. Thus, in the various places he clearly indicates that those who do evils will not be saved.
It is for this reason that he says that according to his internal man he is enjoing the commandments, while the external man hates those, meaning here the commandments of life. So, while the internal man or, say, our instructed internal rational mind, can enjoy avoiding the evils of idol worshipping, hatred, adultery, etc, that those are contrary to God, and thus have to be shunned, yet, the passions in our external or natural man may fight agaist that. That is illustrated by the idea of the flesh fighting against the spirit.
Now, then, when a man looks to the Lord Jesus Christ, in whom alone is the fullness of the Divinity bodily, thus who is not only Alpha, but is also Omega, and with faith in Him shuns evils as sins, he comes proportionately into the enjoyment of the commandments not only by his interior, but also exterior man. Then what the spirit or internal man wants, this also the external or natural man compliantly wills. Then there is a conjunction of the internal and external man, thus correspondence, and thus regeneration.
To the degree that the evils are shunned as sins against the Lord God, then proportionately a man comes into the goods, the true love, which has within it all that, that one does not wish, does not think and does not do evils.
And in both believing and shunning evils we attribute all those goods to the Lord, for the merit for both faith and charity, or shunning evils as sins in the first place, belongs to Him. Again, a man is doing this as if be his own efforts, namely, believing and shunning evils, but also believes that it is the Lord who is doing all this with him, and the merit thus belongs to the Lord Alone. The merit for both believing and acting.

How can a "ministry of death and condemnation written on tablets of stone" apply to a Believer under the Ministry of The Spirit? It can't.. and it doesn't.

XrxrX said:

How can a "ministry of death and condemnation written on tablets of stone" apply to a Believer under the Ministry of The Spirit? It can't.. and it doesn't.

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The law is the knowledge of what is sinful and what is not.


We need to know what sin is, so that we can avoid it.


To cast away the law is to cast aside the knowledge of sin.

Sure, no one is "justified" by the law, for we have all sinned, and still do from time to time.

But the call of the whole of the New Testament is to receive Jesus and come out from our sins.

FutureAndAHope said:

The law is the knowledge of what is sinful and what is not.

Rom 3:20 .... for by the law is the knowledge of sin.​

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"Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are in the Law.."

FutureAndAHope said:

We need to know what sin is, so that we can avoid it.

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So, a Born Again believer needs to read the letter to know not to murder?
Which of the 613 regulations do we need to "read" to love our neighbor?
Or of the "10"?
"But before faith came, we were held in custody under the Law, being shut up for the coming faith to be revealed. Therefore the Law has become our tutor unto Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus."

FutureAndAHope said:

Rom 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not!​

To cast away the law is to cast aside the knowledge of sin.

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"For when Gentiles who do not have the Law naturally do the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they demonstrate the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them.."
Yet, a believer indwelled by the very Spirit of God doesn't even have this?

FutureAndAHope said:

Sure, no one is "justified" by the law, for we have all sinned, and still do from time to time.

But the call of the whole of the New Testament is to receive Jesus and come out from our sins.

1Co 6:9-11 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.​

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"And such.. WERE.. some of you..."
But you were washed..
But you were sanctified..
But you were Justified..
In the Name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.