Do the Ten Commandments still apply under the new covenant today?

SabbathBlessings said:

It doesn't say that, adding to God's Word is not a good idea,

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I'm sure you'll understand if the focus of the born again is on Jesus' new command of the New Covenant: "love one another as I have loved you" (Jn 13:34), rather than on the obsolete Old Covenant (Heb 8:13) Decalogue: "do no harm."

CoreyD said:

I was looking forward to your answers to the questions, Rachel. I anticipated they would be interested.
I would assume you did ask, and answer the questions, though silently.

I can't be sure you picked apart these beliefs, from what you said,.
For example, you said, "Jesus was clear-he didn't come to do away with all the laws of old".
Why did you add the word "all"? That's not scriptural, is it.
Jesus said the law. Not some of the law.

Do you believe that Jesus came to destroy some of the law?
How would you answer... Why aren't you keeping the law of circumcision, of the yearly Sabbath, or the festival of booths?
Are those destroyed... but not all?

Questioning ourselves reveals if our beliefs are based on our feelings (personal opinions), or scripture.
As a Jew, Jesus kept the law, and fulfilled it. How could he destroy something and live by it - obey it perfectly (fulfill it) at the same time.
That's why not one word could pass away, and not be fulfilled.

Now, however, faith, is what persons would live by, and be justified by God. Romans 4:15; Romans 9:30-10:10

For Christ is the end of the law for the justification of everyone who has faith.
Romans 10:4​

Would you say that scripture isn't clear, or would you say it is clear that the law, has ended for those having faith? Romans 7:6
Contemporary English Version puts it this way... But Christ makes the Law no longer necessary for those who become acceptable to God by faith.

That agrees with Galatians 3:23-25
This is why I asked you to use those specific questions to yourself.

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CoreyD in the days of the Temple and the Synagogues in the Old Testatment they used to do animal sacrifcing for a sin atonement to God in the courtyards of the Temples. God could ask someone also to offer their own children as a sacrifice to him see Moses with his own son. In the end though God spared his son as a test and replaced him with a ram as a sacrifice instead. Jesus became our new atonement which did away animal sacrificing before God. That is one law which Jesus ended. Jesus collapsed some of the laws and fulfiled others to their logical conclusion. Some people used to be stoned as punishment in Levitiucs laws or put to death-but now could be forgiven, with the greatest for blaspheming aganst the Holy Ghost. There are more differences.

The Book of Revelations says we are not to remove one law from the Bible. If you are a Christian may be for some understanding of the Bible when you read it and see if that helps you see things differently at all.

rachelrising said:

God could ask someone also to offer their own children as a sacrifice to him see Moses with his own son. In the end though God spared his son as a test and replaced him with a ram as a sacrifice instead. Jesus became our new atonement which did away animal sacrificing before God.

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I think you are speaking about Abraham, not Moses, correct?

Best wishes,
KT

rachelrising said:

CoreyD in the days of the Temple and the Synagogues in the Old Testatment they used to do animal sacrifcing for a sin atonement to God in the courtyards of the Temples. God could ask someone also to offer their own children as a sacrifice to him see Moses with his own son. In the end though God spared his son as a test and replaced him with a ram as a sacrifice instead. Jesus became our new atonement which did away animal sacrificing before God. That is one law which Jesus ended. Jesus collapsed some of the laws and fulfiled others to their logical conclusion. Some people used to be stoned as punishment in Levitiucs laws or put to death-but now could be forgiven, with the greatest for blaspheming aganst the Holy Ghost. There are more differences.

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Thanks for your response Rachel.
You said Jesus collapsed some of the laws and fulfiled others.
Where is that found in the Bible?

rachelrising said:

The Book of Revelations says we are not to remove one law from the Bible.

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Which verse in Revelation did you red that in?
There is no verse that says that.
You probably have Revelation 22:19 in mind, but you are taking it out of context, aren't you.
I asked someone earlier, why they take the word commandment in the Bible, and apply it to the ten commandment. I didn't get an answer, but you did demonstrate why.
Thanks.

CoreyD said:

Thanks for your response Rachel.
You said Jesus collapsed some of the laws and fulfiled others.
Where is that found in the Bible?


Which verse in Revelation did you red that in?
There is no verse that says that.
You probably have Revelation 22:19 in mind, but you are taking it out of context, aren't you.
I asked someone earlier, why they take the word commandment in the Bible, and apply it to the ten commandment. I didn't get an answer, but you did demonstrate why.
Thanks.

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How do we know the commandments of God include the Ten Commandments, because God said so. In the Ten Commandments, which God placed them in a unit and called them “My commandments“ collectively -both written and spoken by God. As a Christian should we not believe the God of the Bible to define His own commandments, so when we see this throughout the entire Bible, we know what they include because God defined them and part of faith is believing and doing what He says.

Exo 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

It is His personal Testimony Exo 31:18- Should the God of the Universe be allowed to define what His commandments are and what they include. Is there a greater authority than He?

Did Jesus say anything different? Not from His own Testimony

Mat 15:3 3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; (quoting right from the Ten Commandments Exo 20:1-17) and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father [a]or mother.’ Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition.

The Ten Commandments is in the ark of the covenant that the earthy temple was modeled after God’s Heavenly Temple Heb 8:1-5 which Jesus revealed through John the Revelator that His ark is in heaven Rev 11:19 revealed at the last trumpet before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ Rev 11:18-19. Jesus is not just our Savior He is also a King and kings have laws, why do you think He would leave it up to man to write His holy and external laws that is in the ark of the covenant under His mercy seat, where justice and mercy will come together soon. I personally would not want to remove anything He covers Pro 28:13 . He didn’t, He personally wrote them He spoke them, He numbered them by design Deut 4:13 Exo 34:28 and said He would not alter Psa 89:34, not a jot or tittle Mat 5:18-19 because who could possible re-write something written by the Holy Spirit of Truth as if they could improve upon God’s own Testimony. It’s really blasphemes, essentially making one their own god. Whoever we obey is who we serve and if we are going away from the law and testimony Isa 8:20 I’m afraid we are no longer serving the God of the Bible, but following another master. Rom 6:16

No coincidence this is one of the last verses in the Bible before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ Rev 11:18-19

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers (Breaking commandment #1 Exodus 20:3) and sexually immoral (breaking commandment #7 Exodus 20:14) and murderers (breaking commandment #6 Exodus 20:13) and idolaters (breaking commandment #2 Exodus 20:4-6), and whoever loves and practices a lie (breaking # 9 Exodus 20:16 or breaking any of the commandments 1 John 2:4) Breaking one we break them all James 2:11-12 Exo 20:1-17 .

Its all about choices and are we going to follow the popular crowd Jesus told us not to Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13 , or taking the narrow path Jesus told us to take, even though many are mocked just as Jesus told us Matthew 5:10-12 Rev 12:17 just as He was, just as the apostles were. Many believe the apostles were what the majority believed in their day, but thats not the case, just like it’s not the case now. Many of the professed believers in God crucified Jesus and killed the prophets and apostles.

If the question is simply do the Ten Commandments still mean something for Christians, then the answer is an obvious yes. The Ten Commandments have always mattered and meant something for Christians, revealing as they do God's moral character and law and providing a summary (not an exhaustive list) of Christian moral teaching. No other gods/idols, don't profane/blaspheme God, rest from physical labor and not exploiting others (or even our beasts of burden) is sacred and good, do not murder, do not steal, honor our parents and those in authority, don't malign your neighbor's character and reputation through falsehood, don't cheat on your spouse, don't envy.

If the question is are Christians supposed to observe the Ten Commandments in the same identical way that the Jews were supposed to observe them as under the Covenant of Sinai, then the answer is no. In many ways the Decalogue is meant to be even harder for us than it was for our spiritual ancestors in Israel, look at the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus took the Commandment, "Do not murder" but says that even bearing anger in our heart against someone else is a kind of murder; Jesus took the Commandment "Do not commit adultery" but says that even objectifying another person with lust is the same thing as adultery. The mere external observance is less important than the internal commitment to God's Law. It is not good enough that we simply don't bloody our hands, we must love our neighbor, even our own enemies. It is not good enough that we simply don't cheat on our spouse by sleeping with someone else, we must love our neighbor enough that we do not even gaze lustfully at them and desire them. The Way Jesus sets forth is narrow and hard.

Which results in a seeming paradox: Those who insist on keeping the Jewish Law are actually unlawful; so that such Legalism itself becomes Antinomian. What does it matter if you don't work on Saturday but then exploit your employees the rest of the week? What does it matter if you don't outwardly profane the Name of YHWH if, through your works, you bring disrepute to Him? What does it matter if you keep the outside of the cup clean if you don't wash the inside?

This is why it is not sufficient to try and place new wine in an old wineskin; we need new wineskins.

-CryptoLutheran

The spirit of the law is not against God's law, if we are breaking the letter of the law, we can be most assured we are not keeping the spirit, because its really dishonoring God by sinning and being an enmity to God Rom 8:7-8.

Paul gives some examples of this right from the Ten Commandments

Rom 2:21 You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal? 22 You who say, “Do not commit adultery,” do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law? 24 For “the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you,” as it is written.

Breaking the commandments dishonors God.

And is what is sin

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

So to claim in one breath there are important but we shouldn't keep them the way God told us to is something I'd be careful of Isa 8:20

The Ten Commandments is the Testimony of God Exo 31:18 why He personally spoke them with His own voice and divinely wrote them with His own finger- which is the Holy Spirit of Truth -promised not to alter His words Psa 89:34 not a jot or tittle Mat 5:18

Did Jesus teach we didn't need to keep? He had some harsh words for those who keep their own laws/traditions in lieu of God's commandments quoting from the Ten Commandments

Mat 15:3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father [a]or mother.’ Thus you have made the [b]commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:

8 ‘These people [c]draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”
10 When He had called the multitude to Himself, He said to them, “Hear and understand: 11 Not what goes into the mouth defiles a man; but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man.”

12 Then His disciples came and said to Him, “Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?”

13 But He answered and said, “Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted. 14 Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch.”

So as a Christian or follower of Christ, its not really up to us to decide when they apply or how they should be kept, its up to God. He wrote it so plainly that even a 10 year old could understand. Jesus let us know the intent behind them that we should not even have thoughts that lead to sin and breaking these commandments, why He said not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments Mat 5:19-30. I think its important to rely on the teachings of Scriptures over the teachings of man.

Happy Sabbath!

SabbathBlessings said:

The spirit of the law is not against God's law, if we are breaking the letter of the law, we can be most assured we are not keeping the spirit, because its really dishonoring God by sinning and being an enmity to God Rom 8:7-8.

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I'm sure you'll understand if the focus of the born again is on Jesus' new command of the New Covenant: "love one another as I have loved you" (Jn 13:34), rather than on the obsolete Old Covenant (Heb 8:13) Decalogue: "do no harm."

RileyG said:

The 10 commandments are a summary of loving God and loving your neighbor as yourself.

Blessings

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Actually, the OT "do no harm" is not a summary of love.

The NT "love as I have loved you" is much more than "do no harm."

What does Scripture say on this matter…

Rom 13:9 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” [a]“You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Quoting Exo 20:1-17 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Love does no harm is not obsolete according to Jesus Christ! Nor is the greatest commandments on how to love God and how to love man given by the Testimony of God Himself Exo 31:18 Deut 4:13 1 John 5:3 Exo 20:6 John 14:15

Just as Jesus quoted the greatest commandment to love God with all our heart , mind and strength quoting OT Deut 6:5 which is the summary of the Ten Commandments as shown in Deut 5, 6:1-5 what Moses was quoting. So did Paul to quote the Second Greatest commandment on what sums up love thy neighbor all from the Testimony of God Exo 31:18 Exo 20:1-17

Mark 12:30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ [a]This is the first commandment. 31 And the second, like it, is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

Matthew 22:37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Thankfully most people know one teaching, of Jesus does not delete the other teachings of Jesus, especially the one where Jesus in His own Words said there are no other commandment greater than these and what the entire Bible hangs on. No wonder why Jesus said to live by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God and not just the one verse we like. Mat 4:4

What does it mean to love man how He loves us? I am pretty sure what it doesn't mean is stealing, murdering, not worshipping only God or breaking the least of these commandments as Jesus taught not to Mat 5:19-30

Clare73 said:

Actually, the OT "do no harm" is not a summary of love.

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Yes, how could that be, when principled love involves more that a command not to harm one's neighbor.

Clare73 said:

The NT "love as I have loved you" is much more than "do no harm."

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Absolutely! That's why it's called a new commandment.

SabbathBlessings said:

What does Scripture say on this matter…

Rom 13:9 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” [a]“You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Quoting Exo 20:1-17 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Love does no harm is not obsolete according to Jesus Christ! Nor is the greatest commandments on how to love God and how to love man given by the Testimony of God Himself Exo 31:18 Deut 4:13 1 John 5:3 Exo 20:6 John 14:15

Just as Jesus quoted the greatest commandment to love God with all our heart , mind and strength quoting OT Deut 6:5 which is the summary of the Ten Commandments as shown in Deut 5, 6:1-5 what Moses was quoting. So did Paul to quote the Second Greatest commandment on what sums up love thy neighbor all from the Testimony of God Exo 31:18 Exo 20:1-17

Mark 12:30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ [a]This is the first commandment. 31 And the second, like it, is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

Matthew 22:37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Thankfully most people know one teaching, of Jesus does not delete the other teachings of Jesus, especially the one where Jesus in His own Words said there are no other commandment greater than these and what the entire Bible hangs on. No wonder why Jesus said to live by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God and not just the one verse we like. Mat 4:4

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What does it mean to love man how He loves us? I am pretty sure what it doesn't mean is stealing, murdering, not worshipping only God or breaking the least of these commandments as Jesus taught not to Mat 5:19-30

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According to Jesus, your bar ("do no harm") is too low for the NT ("love as I have loved you"). . .

Why do you cling to the older and lower standard of the obsolete Old Covenant (Heb 8:13), "do no harm"?

"Do no harm" does not require love. . .you make no NT sense.

Where does this contra-NT thinking come from?

Clare73 said:

Your bar ("do no harm") is too low for the NT ("love as I have loved you"). . .

Why do you cling to the older and lower standard of the obsolete Old Covenant (Heb 8:13)?

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Not according to the Testimony of Jesus, Jesus did not say they are obsolete, He taught not to break the least of these commandments Mat 5:19-30 and in doing so ones heart is far from Him Mat 15:3-14 because it goes against what God placed in our hearts, His laws Heb 8:10 and rebelling against God’s laws is not really a good sign Rom 8:7-8 because sin, which is the transgression of God’s laws 1 John 3:4 James James 2:11-12 Rom 7:7 separated us from God Isa 59:2 so doing exactly what separated us is not how one is reconciled back to God.

If there is no other commandment greater than these commandments, according to Jesus Christ and what the entire Bible hangs on, how can be they obsolete, God own personal Testimony written by God Himself Exo 31:18. Something I would be concerned with, those who teach and follow this teaching Isa 8:20 Mat 5:19 Mat 15:3-14

Mark 12:30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ [a]This is the first commandment. 31 And the second, like it, is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

Matthew 22:37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

I can see why some people would want to remove love to God and how to do so and instead focus on what God does for us, but no relationship can survive on a one-sided relationship. Not even our relationship with God, why we are told to be doers of His word, not just hearers James 1:22-24 James 2:10-12 Rev 22:14

SabbathBlessings said:

Not according to the Testimony of Jesus, Jesus did not say they are obsolete,

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So you disagree with Paul that the old covenant is obsolete (Heb 8:13)?

You disagree that we are now under Jesus' new command (Jn 18:34) of the new covenant and Jesus' new covenant law, "Love one another as I have loved you," which is a much higher standard than the Decalogue "do no harm."

SabbathBlessings said:

Not according to the Testimony of Jesus, Jesus did not say they are obsolete, He taught not to break the least of these commandments Mat 5:19-30 and in doing so ones heart is far from Him Mat 15:3-14 because it goes against what God placed in our hearts, His laws Heb 8:10 and rebelling against God’s laws is not really a good sign Rom 8:7-8
If there is no other commandment greater than these commandments and what the entire Bible hangs on, how can be they obsolete Something I would be concerned with, those who teach and follow this teaching Isa 8:20 Mat 5:19 Mat 15:3-14
Mark 12:30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ [a]This is the first commandment. 31 And the second, like it, is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”
Matthew 22:37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

I can see why some people would want to remove love to God and how to do so and instead focus on what God does for us, but no relationship can survive on a one-sided relationship. Not even our relationship with God, why we are told to be doers of His word, not just hearts James 1:22-24 Rev 22:14
He taught not to break the least of these commandments Mat 5:19-30 and in doing so ones heart is far from Him Mat 15:3-14 because it goes against what God placed in our hearts, His laws Heb 8:10

If there is no other commandment greater than these how can be it obsolete. Something I would be concerned with, those who teach and follow this teaching Isa 8:20 Mat 5:19 Mat 15:3-14

Mark 12:30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ [a]This is the first commandment. 31 And the second, like it, is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

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Changing horses in the middle of the stream. . .

These are not the Decalogue. . .which Decalogue you elevate above these.

Clare73 said:

So you disagree with Paul that the old covenant is obsolete (Heb 8:13)?

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I never said that the Old Covenant, which is the old agreement is not obsolete, but God in His great mercy instead of making extinct His creation for not continuing in His covenant He made a new one established on better promises Heb 8:6 because God keeps His promises when He said He would not alter His words Psa 89:34 not a jot or tittle Mat 5:18 so instead God wrote His laws on a better surface our hearts and minds Heb 8:10 if we don’t rebel against His laws Rom 8:7-8 because God’s laws are not written on stony hearts, but hearts of flesh Eze 36:26 those who listen to all of His teachings John 8:47

Clare73 said:

You disagree that we are now under Jesus' new command (Jn 18:34) of the new covenant and Jesus' new covenant law, "Love one another as I have loved you."

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It doesn't say we are now only under this one command, you are adding to God’s Word- Jesus said to live by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God Mat 4:4 not just the one verse we like. Previously you stated all of Jesus teachings and preachings are “Old Covenant” so your teachings keep changing.

Clare73 said:

And they are not the Decalogue. . .which you elevate above these.

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According to Paul they are, in very clear easy to understand language quoting directly from the Ten Commandments verbatim


Rom 13:9 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” Exo 20:14 “You shall not murder,” Exo 20:13 “You shall not steal,” Exo 20:15 “You shall not bear false witness,” Exo 20:16 “You shall not covet,” Exo 20:17 and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Quoting Exo 20:1-17 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Where do these commandments on how to love thy neighbor, the Second Greatest commandments come from? You seem to be arguing with the Text

The Ten Commandments​

20 And God spoke all these words, saying:

2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of [a]bondage.
3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor [b]serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting[c] the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
7 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
13 “You shall not murder.
14 “You shall not commit adultery.
15 “You shall not steal.
16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”



The greatest commandments Jesus quoted from the OT Deut 6:5 also come from this same unit, which this was said immediately after Moses repeated the Ten Commandments before the children entered in the Promise Land to diligently keep, you can read this is Deut 5 and Deut 6:1-5 just as we are to keep before entering our Promise Land Rev 22:14-15

Love does no harm is not obsolete according to Jesus Christ! Nor is the greatest commandments on how to love God and how to love man given by the Testimony of God Himself Exo 31:18 Deut 4:13 1 John 5:3 Exo 20:6 John 14:15


Mark 12:30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ [a]This is the first commandment. 31 And the second, like it, is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

Matthew 22:37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

This is the Testimony of God, Exo 31:18 God wrote and God spoke the Ten Commandments and numbered them by design Deut 4:13 Exo 34:28 He added no more to them Deut 4:22 and placed them under His mercy seat that is in the Most Holy as shown in heaven Heb 8:1-5 Rev 11:19 All the other laws were written by Moses placed outside the ark and held all of the blessings and curses for breaking God’s holy and eternal commandments was there as a witness against Deut 31:24-26 not sure why more people don’t elevate God’s own Testimony that Jesus quoted the greatest commandments from which in past posts you even started were the Ten Commandments.

rather than on the obsolete Old Covenant (Heb 8:13) Decalogue: "do no harm."

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You just misunderstand the New Covenant but wouldn’t if you listened to all of the teachings and preachings of Jesus Mat 4:4 instead of making a whole doctrine from one verse that Jesus never did. One teaching of Jesus does not delete the other teachings, especially when He said there is no greater commandments and what the entire Bible hangs on.

I’ll let you have the last word because you will more than likely just copy and paste your previous post, I’ll let the words of Jesus Christ stand on their own.

Take care

SabbathBlessings said:

I never said that the Old Covenant, which is the old agreement is not obsolete, but God in His great mercy instead of making extinct His creation for not continuing in His covenant He made a new one established on better promises Heb 8:6 because God keeps His promises when He said He would not alter His words Psa 89:34 not a jot or tittle Mat 5:18 so instead God wrote His laws on a better surface our hearts and minds Heb 8:10 if we don’t rebel against His laws Rom 8:7-8 because God’s laws are not written on stony hearts, but hearts of flesh Eze 36:26
It doesn't say we are now only under this one command, you are adding to God’s Word- Jesus said to live by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God Mat 4:4 not just the one verse we like. Previously you stated all of Jesus teachings and preachings are “Old Covenant” so your teachings keep changing.

According to Paul they are, in very clear easy to understand language quoting directly from the Ten Commandments verbatim


Rom 13:9 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” [a]“You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Quoting Exo 20:1-17 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

As did Jesus quoting OT Deut 6:5 which this was said immediately have Moses repeated the Ten Commandments before entering in the Promise Land to diligently keep

Love does no harm is not obsolete according to Jesus Christ! Nor is the greatest commandments on how to love God and how to love man given by the Testimony of God Himself Exo 31:18 Deut 4:13 1 John 5:3 Exo 20:6 John 14:15

Just as Jesus quoted the greatest commandment to love God with all our heart , mind and strength quoting OT Deut 6:5 which is the summary of the Ten Commandments as shown in Deut 5, 6:1-5 what Moses was quoting. So did Paul to quote the Second Greatest commandment on what sums up love thy neighbor all from the Testimony of God Exo 31:18 Exo 20:1-17

Mark 12:30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ [a]This is the first commandment. 31 And the second, like it, is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

Matthew 22:37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Sorry if you don’t agree with the Testimony of God, Exo 31:18 God wrote and God spoke the Ten Commandments and numbered them by design Deut 4:13 Exo 34:28 He added no more to them Deut 4:22 and placed them under His mercy seat that is in the Most Holy as shown in heaven Heb 8:1-5 Rev 11:19 All the other laws were written by Moses placed outside the ark and held all of the blessings and curses for breaking God’s holy and eternal commandments was there as a witness against Deut 31:24-26 not sure why more people don’t elevate God’s own Testimony that Jesus quoted the greatest commandments from which in past posts you even started were the Ten Commandments.


You just misunderstand the New Covenant but wouldn’t even you listened to all of the teachings and preachings of Jesus Mat 4:4 instead of making a whole doctrine from one verse that Jesus never did. One teaching of Jesus does not delete the other teachings, especially when He said there is no greater commandments and what the entire Bible hangs on.

I’ll let you have the last word because you will more than likely just copy and paste your previous post, I’ll let the words of Jesus Christ stand on their own.Take care

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I'm sure you'll understand if the focus of the born again is on Jesus' new command of the New Covenant: "love one another as I have loved you" (Jn 13:34), rather than on the obsolete Old Covenant (Heb 8:13) Decalogue: "do no harm."

Clare73 said:

I'm sure you'll understand if the focus of the born again is on Jesus' new command of the New Covenant: "love one another as I have loved you" (Jn 13:34), rather than on the obsolete Old Covenant (Heb 8:13) Decalogue: "do no harm."

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I don't think that would change anything.
Here is why...

SabbathBlessings said:

I never said that the Old Covenant, which is the old agreement is not obsolete, but God in His great mercy instead of making extinct His creation for not continuing in His covenant He made a new one established on better promises Heb 8:6 because God keeps His promises when He said He would not alter His words Psa 89:34 not a jot or tittle Mat 5:18 so instead God wrote His laws on a better surface our hearts and minds Heb 8:10 if we don’t rebel against His laws Rom 8:7-8 because God’s laws are not written on stony hearts, but hearts of flesh Eze 36:26 those who listen to all of His teachings John 8:47

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SabbathBlessings said:

It doesn't say we are now only under this one command, you are adding to God’s Word- Jesus said to live by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God Mat 4:4 not just the one verse we like. Previously you stated all of Jesus teachings and preachings are “Old Covenant” so your teachings keep changing.

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First, note that he says...

I never said that the Old Covenant, which is the old agreement is not obsolete

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...and previously he had said...

the old covenant was the ten commandments.

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Although saying this, he insists that the ten commandments are written on a new surface - the heart, when there is no scripture that says anything about the ten commandments being the law of the new covenant.
Rather, the prophecy at Jeremiah 31:31-34 says...

So, the fact that he tells you ...

Jesus said to live by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God

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...and insists on the laws of the ten commandment. should tell you in no uncertain terms, that regardless... justification for righteous is by keeping the ten commandments, which are not obsolete, even though the old covenant... which is the ten commandments, is obsolete.

Did you get that.... especially the summary?
It says, 'though we have to admit the ten commandments - the old covenant - is obsolete, we still believe in keeping it, and living by it'.

However, the Bible, contrary to the claim that the ten commandments is the covenant, says that the Israelites agreed to... not just the ten commandments, but all the words that God commanded them as stated at Exodus 19:5-9; Exodus 24:1-12; Hebrews 9:18-20... at which time Moses sprinkled the blood of the covenant on the people.

Moses did not write down the ten commandments alone, but all the words God commanded, as stated in Exodus 34:1-28
So,

• Though the law written on hearts is not the same law written on stone.
• Though the law covenant was not just the ten commandments, but all the words God commanded them.

Those who insist that one must live by the ten commandments, are really trying to keep the old covenant, while insisting that the new covenant is the old covenant with the exception of laws they never included in the old covenant.
In this regard, neither covenant can be kept by them. They violate both.

1. The old, because they don't consider all the words God commanded to be the covenant.
2. The new, because, they add laws they consider the old covenant, to the new covenant (though this is not in scripture), which are, as you said, lower (inferior)... the Bible actually uses the expression, weak.. in referring to the same law that says "you must not covet". Romans 3:20; Romans 7:1-12; Romans 8:3, 4; Hebrews 7:18, 19 refer to the same law.

Understanding comes with knowledge, doesn't it.
The knowledge is available, but Jesus said it's not attainable by all. Matthew 13:10-16; Luke 10:21

CoreyD said:

I don't think that would change anything.
Here is why...




First, note that he says...

...and previously he had said...

Although saying this, he insists that the ten commandments are written on a new surface - the heart, when there is no scripture that says anything about the ten commandments being the law of the new covenant.
Rather, the prophecy at Jeremiah 31:31-34 says...

31 o “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make p a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when q I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, rthough I was their husband, declares the Lord.​

So, the fact that he tells you ...

...and insists on the laws of the ten commandment. should tell you in no uncertain terms, that regardless... justification for righteous is by keeping the ten commandments, which are not obsolete, even though the old covenant... which is the ten commandments, is obsolete.

Did you get that.... especially the summary?
It says, 'though we have to admit the ten commandments - the old covenant - is obsolete, we still believe in keeping it, and living by it'.

However, the Bible, contrary to the claim that the ten commandments is the covenant, says that the Israelites agreed to... not just the ten commandments, but all the words that God commanded them as stated at Exodus 19:5-9; Exodus 24:1-12; Hebrews 9:18-20... at which time Moses sprinkled the blood of the covenant on the people.

Moses did not write down the ten commandments alone, but all the words God commanded, as stated in Exodus 34:1-28
So,

• Though the law written on hearts is not the same law written on stone.
• Though the law covenant was not just the ten commandments, but all the words God commanded them.

Those who insist that one must live by the ten commandments, are really trying to keep the old covenant, while insisting that the new covenant is the old covenant with the exception of laws they never included in the old covenant.
In this regard, neither covenant can be kept by them. They violate both.

1. The old, because they don't consider all the words God commanded to be the covenant.
2. The new, because, they add laws they consider the old covenant, to the new covenant (though this is not in scripture), which are, as you said, lower (inferior)... the Bible actually uses the expression, weak.. in referring to the same law that says "you must not covet". Romans 3:20; Romans 7:1-12; Romans 8:3, 4; Hebrews 7:18, 19 refer to the same law.

Understanding comes with knowledge, doesn't it.
The knowledge is available, but Jesus said it's not attainable by all. Matthew 13:10-16; Luke 10:21

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First off, Moses didn’t write the Ten Commandments at all, God did, it is His personal Testimony Exo 31:18 Deut 4:13 Exo 34:28.
So saying Moses helped God write the Ten Commandments saying He didn’t do so “alone” is a misrepresentation of God’s work Exo 32:16 Exo 31:18 If Moses didn’t take credit for it and he was there, do we really know better?


The New Covenant is established on better promises, the Old Covenant, the Ten Commandments was established on the people doing Exo 19:8. God promised He would not alter the words of His covenant Psa 89:34 not a jot or tittle, Mat 5:18 so instead of discarding humanity because they did not continue in His covenant, God established a New Covenant based on better laws- does it say this anywhere, of course not because God keeps His promises, why the New Covenant is established on better promises Heb 8:6 , not new and better laws, because we can’t make something written by the Holy Spirit of Truth more perfect Psa 19:7 so instead of being written on stone, its now written on a better surface in the New Covenant believers hearts and minds Heb 8:10 2 Cor 3:3 no longer based on what we do, but on what God does Heb 8:10 John 14:15-18 if we don’t rebel against God’s laws Rom 8:7-8

Why it’s still a sin to break the least of these commandments in the NC 1 John 3:4 Rom 7:7 Mat 5:19-30 breaking one we break them all James 2:11-12. Why Jesus never taught not to keep them, but taught the opposite over and over Mat 5:19-30 Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13 Mat 19:17-19 John 14:15 etc

If we are still in the Old Covenant we have stony hearts rebelling against what God placed in our hearts, God’s laws Rom 8:7-8, we need to come into the New Covenant where we have a new spirit and hearts made of flesh Eze 36:26 having God’s law written on our hearts Heb 8:10 instead of obeying our own rules and laws, Jesus warns us saying its leading one to worship Him in vain and the path for those who teach and those who follow this teaching in a ditch Mat 15:3-14 Mat 5:19

Hopefully one day you will see this before its too late because once Jesus comes all of our decisions will be sealed Rev 22:11. And the last thing we want to hear is Mat 7:231 John 2:4 Rev 22:15 over hearing this Rev 22:14

You are running a bit too fast for me.
Why not slow down and walk with me. Consider me an old man that can't move too fast.

SabbathBlessings said:

First off, Moses didn’t write the Ten Commandments at all, God did, it is His personal Testimony Exo 31:18 Deut 4:13 Exo 34:28.
So saying Moses helped God write the Ten Commandments saying He didn’t do so “alone” is a misrepresentation of God’s work Exo 32:16 Exo 31:18 If Moses didn’t take credit for it and he was there, do we really know better?

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Which part of what I said, is that relevant to?
Here is where I want you to slow down,

SabbathBlessings said:

The New Covenant is established on better promises, the Old Covenant, the Ten Commandments was established on the people doing Exo 19:8.

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I don't understand what you mean by "was established on the people doing".
Please explain what you mean. What people, and where exactly is that in Exodus 19:8?

SabbathBlessings said:

God promised He would not alter the words of His covenant Psa 89:34 not a jot or tittle, Mat 5:18 so instead of discarding humanity because they did not continue in His covenant, God established a New Covenant based on better laws- does it say this anywhere, of course not because God keeps His promises, why the New Covenant is established on better promises Heb 8:6 , not new and better laws, because we can’t make something written by the Holy Spirit of Truth more perfect Psa 19:7 so instead of being written on stone, its now written on a better surface in the New Covenant believers hearts and minds Heb 8:10 2 Cor 3:3 no longer based on what we do, but on what God does Heb 8:10 John 14:15-18 if we don’t rebel against God’s laws Rom 8:7-8

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That's a lot you said there, so I need a snail's pace break down.
#1

#2

#3

SabbathBlessings said:

Why it’s still a sin to break the least of these commandments in the NC 1 John 3:4 Rom 7:7 Mat 5:19-30 breaking one we break them all James 2:11-12. Why Jesus never taught not to keep them, but taught the opposite over and over Mat 5:19-30 Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13 Mat 19:17-19 John 14:15 etc

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Please explain your reason for quoting 1 John 3:4.
At Romans 7:7, Paul makes a truthful statement - the law is not sin. He follows up with this...
Romans 7:8-12
8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. 9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. 12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

What does Paul say the law does to all those under it?
So now, explain please the previous verses... Romans 7:4-6
How have persons "become dead to the law through the body of Christ"?
How is it that this allows them to be able to " bear fruit to God"?
How is it they "have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter"?

SabbathBlessings said:

If we are still in the Old Covenant we have stony hearts rebelling against what God placed in our hearts, God’s laws Rom 8:7-8, we need to come into the New Covenant where we have a new spirit and hearts made of flesh Eze 36:26 having God’s law written on our hearts Heb 8:10 instead of obeying our own rules and laws, Jesus warns us saying its leading one to worship Him in vain and the path for those who teach and those who follow this teaching in a ditch Mat 15:3-14 Mat 5:19

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Romans 8:4 says, that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
What scripture in the Bible tells us what is the righteous requirement of the law?
Sorry to put you on the spot. If you don't want to say, that's okay. I can share that with you, if you prefer.

SabbathBlessings said:

Hopefully one day you will see this before its too late because once Jesus comes all of our decisions will be sealed Rev 22:11. And the last thing we want to hear is Mat 7:231 John 2:4 Rev 22:15 over hearing this Rev 22:14

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If I don't see, by the end of this discussion, then you haven't provided the adequate scriptures, and scriptural based statements, so, we'll see.
Thanks for trying to help me see, though.
I really appreciate that, but remember, please go slow, and don't ramble on with a lot of words. Otherwise, you'll lose your students.