How did the police believe this was a lone barricaded suspect? The Texas school massacre.

BPPLEE · Mar 22, 2023

RDKirk said:
The police officers I was talking about were carrying long firearms in their trunks decades before the military-weapons-to-police program started. They weren't using military weapons back then.

A squad of police with Ruger Mini-14 rifles (same capability of the AR-15, just doesn't look as "wicked") could deal with one man with an AR-14.

I suspect they had nothing more than their service pistols because they don't train and didn't want to train with multiple weapons. There is both a training cost and training motivation factor to that.

I personally train weekly (pretty much...say three times monthly at least) expending about 100 rounds per session. That costs me $90 a month in handgun ammunition and three hours a month in time. That would add up for a department...but, frankly, it's not overkill for a police officer.

The whole time I was in law enforcement we qualified with our firearms once a year, 50 round coarse. The police department I worked for also had a combat coarse we qualified on once a year, the Sheriff’s Department didn’t have that neither did the Task Force. So the most I had to shoot my firearm was twice a year. Any other practice was up to me. I’m in Security now and we qualify once a year. I practice now more than I did when I was in law enforcement.

Ana the Ist · Mar 22, 2023

RDKirk said:
They said it took an hour for the Uvalde SWAT team to arrive. It seems strange that it should take that long in a community so small...what, were they all at home in bed? But remember that the Uvalde Police are actually a whole different jurisdiction.

The school was the jurisdiction of the school district police force, an entirely different entity.

That was a huge part of their problem, as they reported considerable confusion in determining "who is in charge?" and it undoubtedly delayed pulling in the Uvalde SWAT team. It shouldn't have been difficult...the chief of the school district police force should have been instantly recognized as the person in charge. That there was confusion sounded to me like they'd never exercised (or even conceptualized) a school shooting scenario that called in the Uvalde SWAT team.

However, to my point with Ana the Ist, if all officers had Ruger Mini-14 rifles in their trunk, they certainly could have kept the shooter worried about them while they waited for the SWAT team.

Sure...I'm sure any rifle would have made a difference, but at 5-6" longer than the AR15 you're going to have difficulty maneuvering inside hallways, door frames, etc. I wouldn't want something that long.

RDKirk · Mar 23, 2023

Ana the Ist said:
Sure...I'm sure any rifle would have made a difference, but at 5-6" longer than the AR15 you're going to have difficulty maneuvering inside hallways, door frames, etc. I wouldn't want something that long.

A. It doesn't make that much difference.
B. There are, of course, other weapons...even AR-15 rifles that are cheaper than Rugers.

You're stretching, just to keep arguing.

Ana the Ist · Mar 23, 2023

RDKirk said:
A. It doesn't make that much difference.
B. There are, of course, other weapons...even AR-15 rifles that are cheaper than Rugers.

You're stretching, just to keep arguing.

Yeah I'm not sure what you're even saying....they had weapons they should have used or they didn't?

BPPLEE · Mar 23, 2023

Ana the Ist said:
Yeah I'm not sure what you're even saying....they had weapons they should have used or they didn't?

It really doesn’t matter what weapon you have. If someone is behind a door with a rifle, you open the door, you’re dead. When you’re dead you can’t help anyone.

Ana the Ist · Mar 23, 2023

BPPLEE said:
It really doesn’t matter what weapon you have. If someone is behind a door with a rifle, you open the door, you’re dead. When you’re dead you can’t help anyone.

Yet somehow the feds managed to kill him without dying. Did the police not teach you how to "cut the pie"?

BPPLEE · Mar 23, 2023

Ana the Ist said:
Yet somehow the feds managed to kill him without dying. Did the police not teach you how to "cut the pie"?

They probably had a shield and it was slicing the pie.

Ana the Ist · Mar 23, 2023

BPPLEE said:
They probably had a shield.

They had a shield 19 minutes into the shooting AFAIK.

BPPLEE · Mar 24, 2023

Ana the Ist said:
They had a shield 19 minutes into the shooting AFAIK.

Then they have no excuse, if it was the right kind of ballistic shield.

RDKirk · Mar 24, 2023

BPPLEE said:
Then they have no excuse, if it was the right kind of ballistic shield.

It has already been determined by experts who have studied the situation that they had no tactical excuse.

RDKirk · Mar 24, 2023

Ana the Ist said:
Yeah I'm not sure what you're even saying....they had weapons they should have used or they didn't?

They should have had suitable weapons immediately available.

And when they did have suitable weapons available, they still delayed employing them.

BPPLEE · Mar 24, 2023

RDKirk said:
They should have had suitable weapons immediately available.

And when they did have suitable weapons available, they still delayed employing them.

Were they following orders to wait?

Ana the Ist · Mar 24, 2023

RDKirk said:
They should have had suitable weapons immediately available.

Ok...well no offense but if they should decide that suitable weapons=AR15s then let's agree that when the peanut gallery starts crying about militarized police, they should probably just shut up.

Suitable is always going to be determined by the police. They're taking the risk after all.

RDKirk said:
And when they did have suitable weapons available, they still delayed employing them.

Probably....from what I've heard.

RDKirk · Mar 24, 2023

Ana the Ist said:
Ok...well no offense but if they should decide that suitable weapons=AR15s then let's agree that when the peanut gallery starts crying about militarized police, they should probably just shut up.

Militarization of the police refers to the Defense Logistics Agency programs LESO/1033 and 1122, which transferred equipment originally procured for the DoD to local police forces.

The AR-15 is not--and I'm pretty sure you know this--a military weapon. It is and has always been a civilian weapon.

RDKirk · Mar 24, 2023

BPPLEE said:
Were they following orders to wait?

The person who should have been in charge, as well as anyone else who could have arguably been in charge, was there at the scene. The "wait" order came from them. Nobody off-scene ordered them to wait.

Ana the Ist · Mar 24, 2023

RDKirk said:
Militarization of the police refers to the Defense Logistics Agency programs LESO/1033 and 1122, which transferred equipment originally procured for the DoD to local police forces.

According to whom?

RDKirk said:
The AR-15 is not--and I'm pretty sure you know this--a military weapon. It is and has always been a civilian weapon.

Well that really only depends on whether the lower has a select fire beyond semiautomatic.

BPPLEE · Mar 24, 2023

RDKirk said:
Militarization of the police refers to the Defense Logistics Agency programs LESO/1033 and 1122, which transferred equipment originally procured for the DoD to local police forces.

The AR-15 is not--and I'm pretty sure you know this--a military weapon. It is and has always been a civilian weapon.

Someone should tell the media and quite a few politicians about the AR-15

RDKirk · Mar 24, 2023

Ana the Ist said:
According to whom?

Well that really only depends on whether the lower has a select fire beyond semiautomatic.

That would not be an "AR-15" if it has an automatic mode. The AR-15 is not a military weapon, and it's ownership does not denote "militarization."

Ana the Ist · Mar 24, 2023

RDKirk said:
That would not be an "AR-15" if it has an automatic

If you want to get technical...Ok. The original AR-15 was a select fire military weapon built to replace the M-16 I think....

But sure, the commonly owned variant is semi only.

BPPLEE · Mar 24, 2023

Ana the Ist said:
If you want to get technical...Ok. The original AR-15 was a select fire military weapon built to replace the M-16 I think....

But sure, the commonly owned variant is semi only.

You can buy an auto sear for $20 and make most semi automatics fully automatic

How did the police believe this was a lone barricaded suspect? The Texas school massacre.

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